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[JacketUnHoly]

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Edited January 28, 2021 by Lluminate

[Navarc]

Personally would put everything non-endo related in the arbitration store to be bought for the arbitration tokens, but making all 1-time-use items move there instead is a valid compromise that accomplishes the same goal!
I agree with everything here, this would make me think of arbitrations as less of an insult to my time as a player with 3k+ hours. It actually even sounds like it might be fun.

If Arbitrations is going to be salvaged from what it is now, DE should pay close attention to this thread, no matter how valuable the rewards are Arbitrations will face the same fate as Trials did if they don't listen to feedback like this I feel.

EDIT:

I'd like to add that I feel Arbitrations PWR STR & DMG is really boring. I'd love to try out some +300% Duration, +300% Range not just +300% STR. For Warframes not all of them actually benefit from +300% PWR STR & it'd give Arbitrations some variety it really needs.
Maybe for weapons like +300% Reload, +300% Firerate, +300% Multishot, +300% Charge Attack Speed? Just switch it up a bit. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Navarchus

[ShaSeng]

29 minutes ago, Navarchus said:

Personally would put everything non-endo related in the arbitration store to be bought for the arbitration tokens, but making all 1-time-use items move there instead is a valid compromise that accomplishes the same goal!
I agree with everything here, this would make me think of arbitrations as less of an insult to my time as a player with 3k+ hours. It actually even sounds like it might be fun.

If Arbitrations is going to be salvaged from what it is now, DE should pay close attention to this thread, no matter how valuable the rewards are Arbitrations will face the same fate as Trials did if they don't listen to feedback like this I feel.

my thoughts exactly

[Rixuel]

I believe the Arbitrations really needs a change. Right now, I feel its gameplay is somehow unmotivated.

I definitively like Lluminate and Navarchus ideas.

[JacketUnHoly]

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Edited January 28, 2021 by Lluminate

[AvatarX76]

Elite Arbitrations? Personally, I wouldn't consider Arbitrations at present to be endgame. And I certainly don't want to have to stay in mission for 30 mins before the level scaling starts to provide some challenge. Simply put, I can get a better investment of my time from other games.

I'd like to see the revive mechanic removed, if there was an elite mode. This would give me some confidence joining public matches as players looking for a more forgiving mode can play normal Arbitration. Just like Sanctuary Onslaught. 

Otherwise Tater sumed it up quite well, and I'd welcome any/all suggestions made above. I'll continue to ignore Arbitrations until normal reward rotations are used and revive can no longer be used to troll... at a minimum.

Regarding single use rewards in general, if they are to be placed in rotation drop tables with ultra rare or legendary drop chance at least ensure they are tradeable. This way we may still have some incentive to continue playing when we have already obtained all rewards. Of course I rather they be moved to the shop. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by AvatarX76
Grammar

[n00biwan]

I'd agree that arbitrations are not perfect.  The time vs reward is awful, with added tiny chances of bling.  Some of these ideas are great, like making the non endo prizes come out of the store for example.

There are lots of games that want my time right now, might be high MR blues, but arbitrations (and the way the nightwave rewards/missions are - my son is MR 4 or and it's a pain to get things he wants from it) are an argument in favour of playing something else.

Edited April 26, 2019 by n00biwan

[Thormbus]

You know the whole mini boss ides is great (imo) but you could take it a step further. Maybe De gets on the ball with the Kingpin system they teased 1yr+ ago. Maybe add kingpin bosses to arbitration. which could then be used for say Clan rewards tied to Kingpin, or maybe railjack stuff for the clan........ so much potential for the game mode, but its not there yet.

[Navarc]

1 hour ago, Thormbus said:

You know the whole mini boss ides is great (imo) but you could take it a step further. Maybe De gets on the ball with the Kingpin system they teased 1yr+ ago. Maybe add kingpin bosses to arbitration. which could then be used for say Clan rewards tied to Kingpin, or maybe railjack stuff for the clan........ so much potential for the game mode, but its not there yet.

It's really bothersome reading your posts when you format them like this so you know, but I don't feel like the Clan Nemesis system should be forced into Arbitrations, I'd rather have that mission board room DE previewed with missions the clan does together to take down the randomly generated clan nemesis, kingpin, rather than put it into something like Onslaught or Arbitrations.

Just more units with weakspots like Thumpers, Bursas and the like would be really good for the game & would be really fitting for Arbitrations if it's really supposed to be about skill rather than just big numbers.

[DreisterDino]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb Lluminate:

• No Arbitration drones
• Normal rotation time scale

I gotta disagree with these points, still i agree that changes have to be made.

 

I think Arbitration-Drones are an important factor for the difficulty, if they get removed completly Arbitrations will be just as easy an cheeseable like any other gamemode.

While you say that CC-Frames would become more viable, the reality would be that everyone would take more AoE-Dps-Frames into Arbitrations just like in any other mission. The Drones play in important role in limiting our nuking-abilites.

 

Regarding the rotation time, i also disagree that it should be reduced to the normal time.

We shouldnt forget that Arbitrations are the only Gamemode with endless C-Rotation once we got there.

This alone should be reason enough to have the time higher than usual.

 

That being sad, these are the changes i would make:

• enemies affected by Drones can take Damage from weapons, but are still immune to abilities
• considering the rotations, there are 2 things that should be done:
• reduce length to ~150% of the normal length (still longer, but not as long)
• add rewards to rotation B-C that are truly better and more desirable (kuva for example)
• an improvement of dropchances by 0.5% doesnt justify the huge increase in rotation-duration, but better rewards would justify it
• i would love to see mini-bosses aswell, but as an addition, not a replacement

 

If you want to read more about why i would make these changes like i suggest them, check this topic:

 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by DreisterDino

[Navarc]

 

 

 

2

34 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

We shouldnt forget that Arbitrations are the only Gamemode with endless C-Rotation once we got there.

ABCC+ Was a step in the right direction, you're right on that. Doubling time for rubbish rewards was over 10 steps back. ABCC+ doesn't definitely do not make up for any single fault in Arbitration in my opinion, it's very very menial of a pro.

[AvatarX76]

3 hours ago, Thormbus said:

You know the whole mini boss ides is great (imo) but you could take it a step further. Maybe De gets on the ball with the Kingpin system they teased 1yr+ ago. Maybe add kingpin bosses to arbitration. which could then be used for say Clan rewards tied to Kingpin, or maybe railjack stuff for the clan........ so much potential for the game mode, but its not there yet.

Steve mentioned recently that the team that was working on Kingpin has been assigned to Rail Jack, so it's not coming any time soon.

2 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

I think Arbitration-Drones are an important factor for the difficulty, if they get removed completly Arbitrations will be just as easy an cheeseable like any other gamemode.

People aren't already cheesing Arbitration? Drones are a lazy response to the unchecked powercreep in the game. They're simply a constant threat that you factor in to your build and mission strategy. They really aren't the threat they were meant to be. I much prefer the mini-boss idea, something that shows up periodically that will serve to keep you on alert and is threatening enough to force some team work.

2 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

Regarding the rotation time, i also disagree that it should be reduced to the normal time.

We shouldnt forget that Arbitrations are the only Gamemode with endless C-Rotation once we got there.

This alone should be reason enough to have the time higher than usual.

Something needs changing as, even with AABC+ rotations, it's a very poor time investment. Perhaps reward virtuous essence more frequently? At present you require 4 hours of playtime to collect enough for one archgun riven... to then have all the riven RNG to deal with.

Edited April 26, 2019 by AvatarX76
typo

[DreisterDino]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb AvatarX76:

Something needs changing as, even with AABC+ rotations, it's a very poor time investment. Perhaps reward virtuous essence more frequently? At present you require 4 hours of playtime to collect enough for one archgun riven... to then have all the riven RNG to deal with.

I advise you and Navarchus (am i the only one that cant quote him?^^) to read my complete post before insta-responding to one sentence because it feels like that is the case here since i have been basically saying the same just 3 lines further down 😛  I agree that in its current state its bad and needs changes to feel more rewarding, but in general its justified to have longer rotations with this unique abccccc.. rotation.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb AvatarX76:

They're simply a constant threat that you factor in to your build and mission strategy. They really aren't the threat they were meant to be. I much prefer the mini-boss idea, something that shows up periodically that will serve to keep you on alert and is threatening enough to force some team work.

You are saying yourself they are a threat, and even if they arent as harmful as "they were meant to be", they still remain a threat. And if they force a different playstyle a bit, they are also working as intended. You say Arbitrations can be cheesed with those Drones which might be true, but without them this would be a thing even more because we can CC every single enemy again or hit every single enemy with our Warframe abilities and so on.

But, i agree they need some tweaks, but removing them completly? dont think thats right.

Edited April 26, 2019 by DreisterDino

[SmolRobin]

I haven't quite gotten to where I can do Arbitrations yet, I am slowly working to that point (like one or two planets away) and one of the key things I was looking forwards to was the available ephemera's to work for. I recently learned that it drops in the rotations and not purchasable from the shop which is a bit worrying/disappointing. I would really honestly prefer all possible cosmetic/one time drops as mentioned to be only in the shop because it'd suck doing blank amount of rotations just for that, not saying it's not a worthy drop but its def not something I'd look forward to when thinking of farming Arbitration when it could be more rewarding to work for it and buy it from the shop and not end up with blank amount of excess blueprints.

[JacketUnHoly]

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Edited January 28, 2021 by Lluminate

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

PS4 here

So I haven't gotten the new Revive mechanic yet

but based on everything I've read so far about how it works - the debuff and all

 

I think my strategy in public groups will be:

When the mr8 dies I will not revive. Just avoid picking up revive points because the risk to myself is not worth reviving a player who in all likelyhood is going to die again, and again. Be sure to remove Vacuum mods to avoid accidentally picking up points.

And given the need for synchronized revive point deposits I'd recommend you do the same; you don't want to be trapped holding a bunch of points when it turns out everyone else is avoiding them.

ie, since revive points are all-or-nothing, better play it safe and assume -nothing-.

[AvatarX76]

15 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

You are saying yourself they are a threat, and even if they arent as harmful as "they were meant to be", they still remain a threat. And if they force a different playstyle a bit, they are also working as intended.

Correction: Drones are a constant factor that, with the appropriate frame\meta, is a minimal threat. I virtually sleepwalk through Arbitrations just like I do ESO. As an endgame mission type it's awfully uninspired.
 

[JacketUnHoly]

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Edited January 28, 2021 by Lluminate

[Navarc]

10 hours ago, Lluminate said:

Also agree, it would be nice if there was maybe 1 frame that got the strength buff, another frame that got the range buff, another frame that got the duration buff....

Gotta say I had a great time with a 300% strength Baruuk though lol

I get that, I really do since I love +300% STR Frost making his Avalanche augment fun & nearly worthwhile but as a result of only having 1 stat: +300% STR Vauban? Still insufficient dmg to compete with any weapons he brings. +300% STR Loki? Just a joke. There's many many more like this, some whose buff are insignificant, some whose are nonexistant.
It's just really unfortunate. They added it to encourage people to play more things but a +300% pwr str buff on a warframe where it doesn't apply is not going to encourage someone to equip that old warframe that they just aren't interested in and haven't been for 3 years.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Navarchus

[Lord_Peppe]

Would be neat if drones were replaced with random Specters, or specter of the warframe type that is buffed with the weapon that is buffed, or "Shadow Clone" of the frames the player brought (so specter with stats buffed by mods).

 

[PartingOfWays]

+1 to hating the revival system. Half the fun of the old system was feeling the pressure not to die, and to play carefully. I actually really loved the permadeath  

This added onto the new system where if another player dies, I get negatively impacted by their failure makes it so much worse. If I had bad teammates before, okay were down a player but as long as I play effectively I can continue. Now if I have bad teammates I get debuffed and punished to the point where my teammates are killing me with their screw ups. 

I want to play with other people, I enjoy things going faster and the occasional nice social interactions it provides. Being down a player is enough of a drawback already, we don’t need to be literally dragged down by unprepared players. 

 

As for rewards i dont think theyre horrible as is but do need a bit more. The in mission drops seem fine as is, being majorily just an endo farm. Where I’d want to see more is the Vitus shop. For being a highly “valuable” and slow to obtain currency there is very little worth getting in the Vitus shop. Archgun rivens made it much better, but that’s only because it basically doubled the realistic purchases. I want the Vitus Essence to actually feel like a worthwhile drop themself. Why not add some more desirable things or interesting things. 

1 Vitus = 500 kuva

1 Vitus = 1 Argon

1 Vitus = 500 endo

2 Vitus = 1 basic lens

2 Vitus = 1 Kubrow egg

3 Vitus = 1 Forma BP

5 Vitus = 1 Relic pack

5 Vitus = 250k credits

1 Vitus is roughly 10 minutes of gameplay give or take, so having that currency actually be desirable would itself grant “better rewards” without even having to increase actual reward values.

It means something for everyone, I can take this endgame currency and use it in whatever way makes me happiest. Need a little kuva for a roll? Too lazy to run a void mission for argon or earth mission for Kubrow eggs? Need to squeeze out as much endo as possible for your primed mod? You can add value to a reward and a game mode simply by giving players a bit of choice without actually increasing numbers. It would still be an endo farm, but you let the players direct what that little bonus Vitus Essence gets converted into, so that we don’t feel forced into 1 or 2 undesirable rewards while trying to get the rarer drops we do want. 

 

(Not sure why the font messed up like that)

Edited April 29, 2019 by PartingOfWays

[JacketUnHoly]

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Edited January 28, 2021 by Lluminate

[DrivaMain]

Rewards rotation should be reduced to normal (5 waves, minutes, and 1 excavator each), but increase the enemy level scaling to compensate the reduced time for increased “challenge”. The new rotation will be  AABCCC+. Then, reduce the drone spawn rate for defense arbitrations, it’s making the mission unnecessarily long if you don’t bring a nuker and also, remove the earth defense from the mission rotation. That tileset has the worst AI Pathing in the game, thus making waves more longer then normal due to the fact that enemies tend to jump around platforms and boxes and not to the defense target.

 

[Navarc]

Also can I add that when people were told that this would have orbiter deco rewards, they expected to buy blueprints to craft shelves for their orbiter, trophies, weapon stands to display different weapon types and so on. So there was a lot of disappointment in the options of an SFX & a little noggle-sized dude having a sit.
Additional cosmetic rewards would definitely aid in increasing the popularity of Arbitrations after the gameplay has been resolved. Adding more things right now when so few find it challenging or enjoyable would just be insult to injury.

[JacketUnHoly]

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Edited January 28, 2021 by Lluminate