What can say about the old warframes?

[(PSN)Vexx757]

20 hours ago, zhellon said:

He's fine but he's not funny. I think he could use a makeover. But it has to wait, because there are those frames that really need it. You know, these:

I know there are other frames that need a look at but, I don`t think you understood the question so again, what do you think of my re-visit to Ash? my ideas to make his abilities more fun and effective?

[selig_fay]

Il y a 2 heures, (PS4)Vexx757 a dit :

I know there are other frames that need a look at but, I don`t think you understood the question so again, what do you think of my re-visit to Ash? my ideas to make his abilities more fun and effective?

Elemental customization is good, you can build a corrosive build to remove armor or a radiation build to distract enemies. But skill is one problem, the status will take place only once. You may want to make the shuriken pierced enemies, but stuck in it, continuing to create, albeit small, but the status of the damage. (as torid for example)

Increasing the damage is good,but I don't think he needs it. He can kill the enemy with their 3 skill. In Blade and soul assassin is able to block long-range enemy attacks with its smoke. You can keep that in mind.

About the teleport, I don't know. This skill is simple in the extreme, but to complicate it makes no sense. He just needs a little extra. I like Loki's teleport better.

About 4 abilities that I do not understand what you want. But I can say that I think about its current implementation. The label system itself is not as bad as it may seem. The problem is, as long as you mark targets, your allies will kill them. Clones must attack immediately, not expecting cut-off ability to.

But all in all, you're talking to a man who played on Ash 0.3% of the time. I don't know what it needs to become popular because I don't really like stealth mechanics and hate assasins.

 

[Rhalick0]

There are old frames that will surpass many that came long after them. Limbo and volt come to mind. They have just enough useful abilities to be good at SOMETHING no matter how much the game changes.

[selig_fay]

il y a 2 minutes, hackedraptor a dit :

Limbo and volt come to mind.

They got processed before they got good. Their skills haven't changed much, but a bit changed mechanics of the skills themselves, making them more effective. 

And I remember how much everyone hated limbo.

[SamMitter]

On 2019-05-14 at 11:17 PM, zhellon said:

Recently, more and more warframes have been released with:

1) Cool passive features that can be used in combat.

2) Abilities that perform different roles with one button.

3) There is enough is not a bad synergy between abilities.

4) Nice survival characteristics.

The game is changing and all new frames are adjusting to this changed game. But what about the old ones? Having useless passive abilities, which in principle is not something that can not be used, sometimes it is only to the detriment of themselves. Have 2-3 ability abilities that can only perform one role in a team, and completely lose 1 ability new frames. There's no synergy, forget it. 

For example, let's look at two frames, Gara and Frost. I will not even consider their abilities, frost loses significantly, but it is more convenient to use it in some places. Let's look only at the passive ability.

Gara: Standing in bright light, Gara has a chance to blind enemies within 12 meters for 10 seconds and expose them to Melee Finisher attacks.

Frost: Any melee assailant that strikes Frost has a 10% chance to be temporarily frozen on impact.

Really, maybe I don't understand something, but don't you think it's heaven and earth? I really don't understand where I can use this passive frost skill. It seems that it is only to be and nothing more. I understand if a bad passive ability is offset by very good abilities and survivability, but it's not.

 

Dear Op, 

I would like to disagree with you on some points here. I am a relatively very new player, playing for 3 or 3 and half months. Form the start, I was actually much more interested in so called old frames actually, as I think, they are really good. My first frame was MAG, then I used EMBER and Frost. Among the new frames, I have tried Gara a little bit, and do have watched game play of others. Based on what I have read andd seen, on any given day, I would lov my MAG, Frost, Ember over say Khora or Hildryn. It is obviously personal choice, but I find them competitive enough.

Btw, Gara probably a very good frame amongst the newer ones.

[selig_fay]

il y a 57 minutes, SamMitter a dit :

Btw, Gara probably a very good frame amongst the newer ones.

Gara is OP frame. She have good defense, good support and unlimited damage. 

il y a 58 minutes, SamMitter a dit :

I would like to disagree with you on some points here. I am a relatively very new player, playing for 3 or 3 and half months. Form the start, I was actually much more interested in so called old frames actually, as I think, they are really good. My first frame was MAG, then I used EMBER and Frost. Among the new frames, I have tried Gara a little bit, and do have watched game play of others. Based on what I have read andd seen, on any given day, I would lov my MAG, Frost, Ember over say Khora or Hildryn. It is obviously personal choice, but I find them competitive enough.

Mag is good, if it be able to play, however in new realities she too dependent on team, so as by and large she control simply ignored. ember... Look, I understand why she's good for you. Ember really still good when it comes to 30 levels. But then you simply will not have enough damage. And that's the main problem, ember - this DD/DPS. And in fact it's a frame that can't do its job. Frost is good. But his passive ability, it's just a mockery. I little do not understand the meaning of his second ability. It's like Oberon's bushes, but deals damage once and gives no more bonuses.

[selig_fay]

I'm sorry. DE, can you recycle the Vauban already?

 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

One question;

Who would be considered to be the last old warframe?

[selig_fay]

Il y a 15 heures, (PS4)Vexx757 a dit :

Who would be considered to be the last old warframe?

If we went to the wording, then let me explain. In this case, the phrase "old frame" does not mean its long-standing exit. This means that this frame has mechanics that can be used in the old realities, but not suitable for new ones. 

Take the same vouban. In the old realities, it was a strong warframe with strong control. And so strong that he created a pipe meta around himself. In the new reality, when we have DPS capable of killing with whole rooms, immortal tanks and invisibles support, vouban with his control is not really needed. Well, control should help kill opponents, but the problem is that more and more mobs are invulnerable to him. That is, the problem is not that the abilities are weak, the problem is that in the new realities they are not enough.

[Xzorn]

Leave the OG frames alone.

If you can't see the difference between doing 3-4 things at once and doing one thing like a boss that's not the frame's problem.

The old frames have remained among the strongest in the game because they're well defined in their purpose and roles. Maybe that role doesn't fit whatever trend Warframe is on right now but again, not the frame's fault and trends change. Play the new trash if you want. Every time DE touches the old frames something horrible happens.

RIP Nyx & Ember

WTF Saryn

[selig_fay]

il y a une heure, Xzorn a dit :

RIP Nyx & Ember

Rework went Nyx only benefit. In fact, she did not lose anything, only got it. But Ember suffered as a result of nerf. It is not clear why this was done, but it was not a rework.

il y a une heure, Xzorn a dit :

The old frames have remained among the strongest in the game because they're well defined in their purpose and roles.

Remind me what role does Titania play? I do not know what you are defending, but it is better to say which warframe suffered as a result of the rework? Not a weak buff or nerf with compensation, namely a rework.

I basically do not care for frames that work well, like a rhino for example. Frost I also cited as an example of the differences of the new frames from the old ones. Of course, frost works well and it does not interest me so much. But there are frames for which alteration is vital, as the same ember, for example. They can remain experts in the business. But they need additions. So that you understand what I mean, I gave an example of how you can improve ember without any rework.

Le 5/15/2019 à 1:46 PM, zhellon a dit :

But I do know how to make Ember playable. Because it's really simple, need only two passive ability to:

1) Ember doesn't take fire damage. Amber can ignite, but she also doesn't take damage from that ignition.

2) Setting fire to the enemy, Ember has a chance to set fire to herself on too value. While you are burning, this value is added to the damage of your abilities and weapons. 

Due to the mechanics of fire that has the most effect damage, while Ember burning, it can burn yourself again with the new value. Thus it is possible to infinitely increase the damage. And that's all, I just took her useless passive ability and improved a bit, but the mechanics remained the same. And I don't think with that passive ability, amber's going to need any kind of a rework. Everyone's happy.

Edited May 22, 2019 by zhellon

[Xzorn]

4 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Rework went Nyx only benefit. In fact, she did not lose anything, only got it. But Ember suffered as a result of nerf. It is not clear why this was done, but it was not a rework.

Remind me what role does Titania play? I do not know what you are defending, but it is better to say which warframe suffered as a result of the rework? Not a weak buff or nerf with compensation, namely a rework.

 

I'm talking about Ash, Loki, Rhino, Trinity, Mag, Nyx, Frost, Excal, Volt, Banshee, Ember, Saryn. Titania was like U19. I'm talking about Vanilla. I'm defending against this community on the power or previous power these frames have that has been screwed up when DE touches them because players don't understand the difference between doing 4-5 things meh and doing 1 or 2 things so well it can carry the group.

Most of the old frames have synergy. It's natural and not what DE imposes aka "Dependency". They have better build diversity because they don't have that forced synergy which forces players into making middle road builds. I can get 2 builds out of new frames or recent reworked frames while I could get 3 - 5 out of the old ones.

Frost Vs Gara is a fine example of the difference I'm talking about. Frost can Defend a group against Infinity with some CC. Gara can give 90% DR, Shield, debuff, CC but all of it will get outscale by Frost simply using Snow Globe. The more they've tried to change old frames the worse they come out from it.

Nyx used to rival Loki for best CC. Now she's a confused mutation of her former self that should be taken out back and deleted.

[(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

RIP Nyx & Ember

WTF Saryn

I made a Ember Rework that would hopefully save her from the vault of no return. Check it out when you get the chance.

[selig_fay]

Il y a 8 heures, Xzorn a dit :

Ash, Loki, Rhino, Trinity, Mag, Nyx, Frost, Excal, Volt, Banshee, Ember, Saryn

Ash, Loki, Rhino, Frost is ok. 

Excal, Volt, Saryn - be reworked and feel good.

Trinity - mana generator and Ultimate spam. And she was nerfed many times. And despite this, Trinity the most efficient frame.

Mag - It was nerfed. It was not a rework.

Nyx - Rework made it better, though not by much. Her main problem is the stupidity of artificial intelligence of mobs. And if you grieve at the expense of disarming, I can please you. Loki was better Nyx than Nyx. Why do you need two frames, one of which has a full set of effective skills, and the other only spam 3, is a mystery to me.

Banshee - lol. 1 useful skill, 1 skill, which in fact passivation and 2 weak controls. I don’t know what the banshee focuses on, but clearly not on control. And control does not matter much in this game. Wake up already.

Ember - be nerfed. Of course, with a slight improvement, like a valkyrie at one time. Moreover, the nerfs were so identical that it seems to me that the person who did this completely lacks imagination.

Edited May 22, 2019 by zhellon