Dog Days: DPS based individual inactivity/ineligibility

[Oreades]

So there was another thread (isn't that how that just tends to work) complaining about AFK players in Dog Days and I started thinking "what if there was a damaged base area control mechanic" Like there is in Area Defense bounties which was eventually adapted into SO/ESO. 

Then I thought "well gee that doesn't solve anything because the group will just keep it up so then I started mulling over..... what if it was per player? Now something like that would NEVER work under normal circumstances because certain weapons/frames can absolutely shut down entire maps. But in Dog Days all warframe powers are disabled and there are no problematic weapons to deal with. 

Then the issue arrose of "it really can't be on kill" because there are a lot of issues that arise from people killstealing. So it would have to be based on an ammount of damage output that the player would have to maintain otherwise the meter drops to zero and they are either hard locked out of rewards or set up with a penalty that they then have to DPS their way out of. 

Of course not counting DPS done after the mission has resolved. It would have to be adjusted to some reasonable DPS output over a period of time and it wouldn't get rid of lazy players but it would curb the outright hard "sit on top of an X" leeching players. 

 

Additionally perhaps to take some of the timer based edge off, put a kill cap of say ~50 which from what I've observed in the Tier4 with a fairly active team seems to be something that tends to happen around the 2min (remaining) mark I'm sure people really trying could reach that a bit sooner but it shaves a little time off the event based on group performance which seems to be the second major complaint. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Oreades

[Drachnyn]

The people sitting on the rock are not leeching. If no one kills anything then you still win. The problem is the mission design.

So how about we instead fix the base problem of the mission being set to 5 minutes with no way to speed it up on a grind that ends up being over 6 hours long. Imagine if it worked like rathuum and we win as soon as we get to 25 kills. That would give people incentive to not afk.

[EDM774]

Event wants 200 kills (you get that in 4 runs give or take) then you have to grind 4k+ pearls for the stuff. We found out that 0-0 still counts as a win and we get our rewards. what sane person would put in effort to fight when you get the same reward for not doing anything? just jump on a buoy and farm pearls like any other sane person (in solo or invite only) and do pubs if you need kills.

no need for complex systems when everyone is after the pearls everyone chooses the path of least resistance and that is doing nothing.

[Oreades]

14 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

The people sitting on the rock are not leeching. If no one kills anything then you still win.

Those are some mighty fine mental gymnastics you have there my friend you should try out for the Olympics 

12 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

Event wants 200 kills (you get that in 4 runs give or take) then you have to grind 4k+ pearls for the stuff. We found out that 0-0 still counts as a win and we get our rewards. 

Seems like coding oversight intended to resolve instances where it ended in a tie in the favor of the players, a simple 

if score1 == score2 & score1 > 0 then Playerteam = win else playerteam = loss

please forgive my lack of syntax 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Oreades

[Drachnyn]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Oreades:

Those are some mighty fine mental gymnastics you have there my friend you should try out for the Olympics 

Actually no. If you go into the mission, dont kill anything and just go 0|0 the game still counts it as a win for you. Leeching would imply that these people need you to do the event for them, which they actually dont. If anything you are running the theoretical risk of losing the mission which the people on the rock are not because they are out of reach.

[EDM774]

1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

people on the rock

Actually mobs can climb up the rock. the top of buoys on the edge of the map, trees and inside that one ball pit are safest

[Drachnyn]

Gerade eben schrieb EDM774:

Actually mobs can climb up the rock. the top of buoys on the edge of the map, trees and inside that one ball pit are safest

There is one rock that is safe, atleast in the time i have been up there and watched other people being up there, but the places you mentioned also work of course.

[Oreades]

10 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Actually no. If you go into the mission, dont kill anything and just go 0|0 the game still counts it as a win for you. 

OK fine have it your way, they're exploiting. Pretty sure that's strait up banable. 

[Drachnyn]

Gerade eben schrieb Oreades:

OK fine have it your way, they're exploiting. Pretty sure that's strait up banable. 

I dont understand your mental gymnastics of wanting to punish people for a bad design on DE's part. We are doing all the mission asks for without any exploits. You wouldnt call for banning people that dont kill any enemies in rescue missions right? They could have easily just made the tactical alert work like rathuum where you're done after 25 kills. That would promote both active play and cut down a overblown grind.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

13 minutes ago, Oreades said:

OK fine have it your way, they're exploiting. Pretty sure that's strait up banable. 

About as bannable as players standing on a box in the good ol days when running infested missions

[Oreades]

9 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

I dont understand your mental gymnastics of wanting to punish people for a bad design on DE's part.

Inoryt, it's like it would be absoloutly horrible to do the thing wouldn't it 

11 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

They could have easily just made the tactical alert work like rathuum where you're done after 25 kills. That would promote both active play and cut down a overblown grind.

Ya don't say it's almost like .....

51 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Additionally perhaps to take some of the timer based edge off, put a kill cap of say ~50 which from what I've observed in the Tier4 with a fairly active team seems to be something that tends to happen around the 2min (remaining) mark I'm sure people really trying could reach that a bit sooner but it shaves a little time off the event based on group performance which seems to be the second major complaint. 

 

5 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

About as bannable as players standing on a box in the good ol days when running infested missions

And they fixed that by systematically stripping missions of offending geometry and giving the infested a projectile attack that is just this side of instant death if they can't path to you for X time. 

Either way it's leeching (because you aren't doing anything while your team is) or exploiting (because it's clearly not working as intended).  Either way the player would have to be actively dodging the inactivity timer. and it's going to get patched.

[BeefyScar]

5 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

The people sitting on the rock are not leeching. If no one kills anything then you still win. The problem is the mission design.

So how about we instead fix the base problem of the mission being set to 5 minutes with no way to speed it up on a grind that ends up being over 6 hours long. Imagine if it worked like rathuum and we win as soon as we get to 25 kills. That would give people incentive to not afk.

that's not true. people cannot leech in arena because there arent that many pub match players that joins arena. hence most of the time, its 1~2 people. so you have to get points yourself. with huge flood of players doing dog days, if we change it to 25 kills, more people will afk. strictly because its much less noticeable.

in dog days, when 4 people pumps it out, you can get 110~130 kills, meaning matches will end in approx. 1.5min. you can blame slow load and lag. by the time you "loaded" matches can end.

[atlas1347]

People don't realize that when you'd get more points when you kill of more...

 

I want to grind for the stuffs in cetus but if leechers are there just staying in one corner of the map... What's the point in playing the game mode in the first place 

[Eklectus]

3 hours ago, atlas1347 said:

People don't realize that when you'd get more points when you kill of more...

 

I want to grind for the stuffs in cetus but if leechers are there just staying in one corner of the map... What's the point in playing the game mode in the first place 

I don't think you understand how this works.

Killing things in that mode changes nothing and, thus, encourages low-effort/afk play.

Adding incentive to actually play would make sure everyone apart from actual leechers contributes.

[Drachnyn]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb atlas1347:

People don't realize that when you'd get more points when you kill of more...

 

I want to grind for the stuffs in cetus but if leechers are there just staying in one corner of the map... What's the point in playing the game mode in the first place 

You always get the exact same amount of pearls, no matter how many enemies you kill. The game mode is fun but not for 6 hours.

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Byfe:

that's not true. people cannot leech in arena because there arent that many pub match players that joins arena. hence most of the time, its 1~2 people. so you have to get points yourself. with huge flood of players doing dog days, if we change it to 25 kills, more people will afk. strictly because its much less noticeable.

in dog days, when 4 people pumps it out, you can get 110~130 kills, meaning matches will end in approx. 1.5min. you can blame slow load and lag. by the time you "loaded" matches can end.

The majority of the people I know would be more active if there was a point to it, me included. Sure probably not all of them would have top kills but you cant count not being good with the water gun as afking. People loading into the end of a mission happens all the time and if it only takes 1 to 2 minutes we have pretty much passed the point where we can be vindictive about it.

[HolyDemon00]

people should just afk in their own private session, they got the same amount of reward, they have to do even less work, and there's no body around to tell on them.

 

The pub afk pretty much fail at being lazy.

Edited August 5, 2019 by HolyDemon00

[EDM774]

I'll just leave this here