Get rid of low effort damage reduction abilities

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

It's become the norm for many  warframe players to expect an overdone defensive ability for recent and upcoming warframes 

And now players are looking to overhaul older squishy characters to make them more like the recent one...boring, effortless and provide no brain cells to use 

In my quest to look for an actual challenge in warframe i realized something very important 

We can still deal ridiculous amounts of damage how we always do it, but when you remove the survivability from certain dps warframes that overpowered dps potential gets weakened because you have to take some time to care about your health

And in my opinion having a game do that to you is always perfect than having a warframe play the game for you 

There are so many ways to nerf our survivability...some of these ways are already implemented in the game

For example wukong's rework handled that perfectly props to pablo for that

We can do this for other warframes like mesa's shatter shield only working when you shoot 

Or nerfing baruuk's desolate hands to give you damage reduction when you don't have serene storm active and more damage/status/crit instead of dr when you have your 4 active 

Or a strong example for an overpowered defensive ability that provides both damage reduction and infinite damage is gara's splinter strom, we can nerf it by reducing the damage reduction value with every rising damage from splinter storm's damage 

There are exceptions like saryn who doesn't have access to damage reduction but she doesn't need it when there are no enemies to shoot you 😄

 

This mentality or strategy is a better way to make players think more about how to use their abilities

Do you want to attack?ok but you have to get rid of your cover, do you want to defend yourself when you take damage? Ok but you don't have a lot of options to deal damage 

We need more warframes like banshee and mirage, also volt and garuda provides a good example of a balanced frame between both sides defense and offense, but not both at the same time you know?

This will anger a lot of players out there, i know 

But if you remove that boring aspect about the game all of us we'll realise how challenging the game can be...and how easy it is to fix enemy balancing issues and the ratio of difficulty 

Don't forget we already have passive dr from our melee weapons and they function with the same strategy...you can't block and attack at the same time 

I made this in an intent to listen to my fellow players and veterans too 

And i don't have much hope for DE to see this, i just want to know what do players feel about that topic 🙂

There are games out there that have damage reduction too but they're like 10's and 20's of percentages

Here in warframe we have damage reduction on top of more damage reductions 

 

Edit: because so many people waving theit pitch forks at me, i forgot to mention a very important detail >

my idea of balancing the offense and defense of warframes relied on dealing with amplified low level enemies like the orb vallis 

They're low level...but they have improved stats and improved Ai 

Which would encourage high players to experiment and won't let new players intimidated to fight against level 200 enemies

 

But it's my fault for not clarifying that in the original post

I got too focused on our side and forgot to show how the enemy side would look like

Edited August 23, 2019 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[Peter]

Console players tend to be less mobile and therefore use frames with abilities that have damage mitigation.

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

We can do this for other warframes like mesa's shatter shield only working when you shoot 

It makes no sense to work only when you shoot, when you shoot nobody stays alive.

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

ng example for an overpowered defensive ability that provides both damage reduction and infinite damage is gara's splinter strom, we can nerf it by reducing the damage reduction value with every rising damage from splinter storm's damage 

So overpowered that I rarely see a Gara, and when I see it only use 2 for damage mitigation + some primary or melee, I'm main Gara and I say it's not as simple as you describe it, to work that way you need a good duration. and enough strength and energy to always reload the skill, unlike a Saryn or Volt that just needs to push a single button to kill everyone on the entire map. I don't see anything overpowered in it, let alone the rest of the server, it's not Gara that is destroying ESO, Arbitrations and high level missions.

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

There are exceptions like saryn who doesn't have access to damage reduction but she doesn't need it when there are no enemies to shoot you 😄

I didn't understand what this has to do with the topic.

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

This mentality or strategy is a better way to make players think more about how to use their abilities

No, that would be the "kill everyone before they kill you" mentality, I see no strategy in that.

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

We need more warframes like banshee and mirage

No, nobody wants.

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

also volt and garuda provides a good example of a balanced frame between both sides defense and offense, but not both at the same time you know?

Are you sure?

 

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

But if you remove that boring aspect about the game all of us we'll realise how challenging the game can be...and how easy it is to fix enemy balancing issues and the ratio of difficulty 

You're aiming in the wrong place, if you want to make the game more challenging, start nerfing auras like Corrosive Projection, then trade nuker skills for something that requires strategy, and then we nerf some area damage weapons that clear corridors with a single shot aka. Catchmoon, Ark Plasmor, Fulmin, Kohm and add some Dark Soul mechanics like stamina ... in short, it will never happen.

 

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I made this in an intent to listen to my fellow players and veterans too 

And i don't have much hope for DE to see this, i just want to know what do players feel about that topic 🙂

There are games out there that have damage reduction too but they're like 10's and 20's of percentages

Here in warframe we have damage reduction on top of more damage reductions 

I don't know what it's like on the console, but on the PC it's possible to die with splinter storm + adaptation instantly.

But I believe the style of play depends on the environment you play, new players tend to play as Inaros for example, the same goes for console players who tend to have their movements limited by analog rotation, I would never play Banshee under these conditions on high level maps.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Peter

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

So replace Mesmer Skin?

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

No, nobody wants.

When i said we need, didn't mean we want to, i meant we deserve to

 

Yes ofcourse nobody in the community likes to die...everyone loves to brag about their favourite warframe not dying or loosing 

Which is my main problem...the players are lazy.

1 hour ago, Peter said:

don't know what it's like on the console

Console is so much easier for me and for many others in terms of mobility 

It depends on your muscle memory

1 hour ago, Peter said:

didn't understand what this has to do with the topic.

What i meant is saryn's problems isn't her survivability...it's her Insane Aoe damage

I was talking about how we need to nerf the survivability of dps frames and brought up saryn

1 hour ago, Peter said:

You're aiming in the wrong place, if you want to make the game more challenging, start nerfing auras like Corrosive Projection, then trade nuker skills for something that requires strategy, and then we nerf some area damage weapons that clear corridors

Not necessary, banshee is a glass cannon that can hit the damage cap...but how often can she do that when she has to worry about her lives? Not much so it's challenging for me at least to find strategies that rewards my immense damage potential

1 hour ago, Peter said:

would be the "kill everyone before they kill you" mentality, I see no strategy in that.

Same thing, what's you're problem with that?

1 hour ago, Peter said:

Are you sure?

Yes i'm 100% sure...volt is squishy without his mobility and his shield, he can shoot through his shield for more offensive play, but he can risk enemies flanking him, you can move with your shield and speed but you loose energy over time, you can speed to move away from enemies but without your shield a hitscan bullet can take you out before you say "speed"

See? Perfectly balanced 

Unlike zephyr for example...why have a 360° shield that evades 100% of damage when she's very fast and mobile....would've been better if turbulence damage evasion is based on zephyr's air velocity, the slower she is in the air the more damage she evades 

1 hour ago, Peter said:

it's not Gara that is destroying ESO, Arbitrations and high level missions

Oh boy little do you know...

 

1 hour ago, Peter said:

overpowered that I rarely see a Gara

People not playing warframe isn't an evidence that frame isn't op...nobody plays baruuk...but he's near unkillable

Nobody plays nidus...and he's the go to in most endurance runs

It depends more on warframes that can do all and have buffs like rhino and chroma, or ...you know, saryn, people love that 

Or just pure aesthetics and fashion frame 

 

 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So replace Mesmer Skin?

I would say yes...but i don't know a good replacement for it

Revenant is so out of place that you don't even know what exactly is the theme you're looking fo for his abilities 

But i think mesmer skin is somewhat close to balanced

It's not a 100% duration based damage mitigation ability 

And it's not a health based damage mitigation ability(although i think rhino's iron skin is very balanced on it's own and rewards so many potential builds and usability of mods and augments even outside rhino himself) 

 

[Peter]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

When i said we need, didn't mean we want to, i meant we deserve to

 

Yes ofcourse nobody in the community likes to die...everyone loves to brag about their favourite warframe not dying or loosing 

Which is my main problem...the players are lazy.

Console is so much easier for me and for many others in terms of mobility 

It depends on your muscle memory

What i meant is saryn's problems isn't her survivability...it's her Insane Aoe damage

I was talking about how we need to nerf the survivability of dps frames and brought up saryn

Not necessary, banshee is a glass cannon that can hit the damage cap...but how often can she do that when she has to worry about her lives? Not much so it's challenging for me at least to find strategies that rewards my immense damage potential

Same thing, what's you're problem with that?

Yes i'm 100% sure...volt is squishy without his mobility and his shield, he can shoot through his shield for more offensive play, but he can risk enemies flanking him, you can move with your shield and speed but you loose energy over time, you can speed to move away from enemies but without your shield a hitscan bullet can take you out before you say "speed"

See? Perfectly balanced 

Unlike zephyr for example...why have a 360° shield that evades 100% of damage when she's very fast and mobile....would've been better if turbulence damage evasion is based on zephyr's air velocity, the slower she is in the air the more damage she evades 

Oh boy little do you know...

 

People not playing warframe isn't an evidence that frame isn't op...nobody plays baruuk...but he's near unkillable

Nobody plays nidus...and he's the go to in most endurance runs

It depends more on warframes that can do all and have buffs like rhino and chroma, or ...you know, saryn, people love that 

Or just pure aesthetics and fashion frame 

 

 

I just think you're worrying a lot about something so harmless, this damage mitigation has its limit, and it even exists a long time ago and it's called Trinity, yet the most used build is EV because the main focus has always been deal damage and destroy everything before they touch you, I love damage mitigating warframes because I can play slower, of course I'm still at risk, but it's still better than jumping around and blowing it up with a Volt or a Saryn as if there were no limits (I don't criticize these styles of play, after all we are in a full PVE game for everyone to have fun as they please).

Of all the new Warframes we only have Gara, Revenant and Baruuk, and honestly Revenant and Baruuk are pretty crooked (and ... useless for squads?) To mention them here, so I move straight.

It's possible to be immortal with most Warframes, but the question is, is it worth it to go so far? what is the reward? Arbitration is the only mission currently that makes sense to do for more than 1 hour, even if it comforts you I died 4x from Gara yesterday after 50 minutes, with adaptation + 90% damage reduction, the same goes for overall nukers, the only one that lasts a long time is Saryn and yet the efficiency drops a lot, finally we will always need a Trinity.

There are missions that I love playing Gara for really liking, but there are others that I play Hyldrin, and others I play Khora, or even Saryn, but I find it hard to get Gara to be a nuker when you have easier options and Efficient endgame, as well as extermination, I can kill everyone using splinter storm, but the time it takes to make a decent stack a plague kripath has done the job or even a Volt or Equinox.

And remember, damage mitigation comes not only from percentages, but also from regeneration and armor.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Peter

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

18 minutes ago, Peter said:

even exists a long time ago and it's called Trinity, yet the most used build is EV

Yea trinity is a support , it's her job to keep people alive she has no dps abilities as far as i know, 

That's why i didn't talk about harrow's 4 because not only is it a support warframe ability...it follows my opinion...a 100% damage mitigation at first and then a hige critical boost afterwards...it rewards you knowing when to use and when to protect yourself so you won't get oneshot immediately after the invulnerability phase ends.

18 minutes ago, Peter said:

I love damage mitigating warframes because I can play slower,

Yea that role is for tanks like inaros, possibly grendel i guess, nidus, a support like nezha and many more support and defensive warframes that require a slow and fortified playstyle...not a front line dps 

I could forgive gara's splinter storm for the melee requirement to actually deal that uncapped damage...but she can nuke with her 4 and with the mobility warframe has...going in melee range takes half seconds! And you literally do nothing but touch the enemies to kill them...you don't even have to care about armor since you can strip them with weapons then get close 

Now imagine if my nerf idea was implemented...you'll still have your 90% damage reduction gara...but if you want to get offensive and stack that splinter storm damage you'll loose DR each time you increase splinter storm's damage...it's simple i'm not completely removing dr from warframe...i'm offering an equivalent exchange 

I adore gara btw she can do pretty much everything...close to saryn's dps and better than frost at defense...and that's why i think having 90% on top of unlimited damage is ridiculous 

18 minutes ago, Peter said:

Hyldrin

Hyldrin is a perfect example of that equivalent exchange...do you want to use your balefire charger with 60k damage? You loose shields 

Not to mention the amazing back and forth between offensive and defensive styles in her kit makes hildryn a very very fun warframe to play and the perfect example of how most warframes should play...and she's not even a dps warframe

Edited August 22, 2019 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

23 minutes ago, Peter said:

And remember that damage mitigation comes not only from percentages, but also from regeneration and armor.

Yea exactly

I'm someone who doesn't consistently run tricaps so i have none of the immortal build arcane like grace, guardian and energize

And i'm still so tired of lazy damage reduction abilities...now imagine someone who has all these equipped on someone like mesa

What's the point? You know? Why even play when you've reached god mode?

[Peter]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I could forgive gara's splinter storm for the melee requirement to actually deal that uncapped damage...but she can nuke with her 4 and with the mobility warframe has...going in melee range takes half seconds! And you literally do nothing but touch the enemies to kill them...you don't even have to care about armor since you can strip them with weapons then get close 

And again I say, she's so amazing that I never see anyone use it, much less the way you describe it, i think you could learn a little about Gara before you describe her, because if you really understand what's going on you would know that it needs at least 4 seconds to actually blow up the map, and yet all who pass through the glass wall won't be killed, so I'm curious to know what a miracle build this is. that explodes an entire map at this godly speed.

 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Now imagine if my nerf idea was implemented...you'll still have your 90% damage reduction gara...but if you want to get offensive and stack that splinter storm damage you'll loose DR each time you increase splinter storm's damage...it's simple i'm not completely removing dr from warframe...i'm offering an equivalent exchange 

Now imagine if you learned to play Gara to understand that your idea sucks?

 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I adore gara btw she can do pretty much everything...close to saryn's dps and better than frost at defense...and that's why i think having 90% on top of unlimited damage is ridiculous 

No, you don't love it, much less know it, it loses a lot in DPS to Saryn, Saryn can enchant the weapon with poison and corrosive at the same time, Saryn has the two strongest toxin combinations in the game and still has infinite spores, healing and 300 base armor, so she doesn't even need Adaptation.

Gara on the other hand if losing the splinter storm is totally vulnerable, its base armor is 125, its biggest source of damage comes from 4 which requires channeling time, and 2 which although seems like Disney to you requires a lot of attention because any mistake and you lose the stack and may even die.

I'm glad you're enjoying playing with her (if you're playing), but I think you should look around more.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Peter

[Peter]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Yea exactly

I'm someone who doesn't consistently run tricaps so i have none of the immortal build arcane like grace, guardian and energize

And i'm still so tired of lazy damage reduction abilities...now imagine someone who has all these equipped on someone like mesa

What's the point? You know? Why even play when you've reached god mode?

I think you should try higher level missions, anything is boring on low level missions.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

19 minutes ago, Peter said:

Now imagine if you learned to play Gara to understand that your idea sucks?

Idk what kind of build you're running but my build easily can do everything, nuke with 4...get consistent and always rising damage with her 2 that not only protects me with insane ehp but kills anything that i get close 

Anything that's not touched by the arbie drone gets one shotted ...i went on a 40 waves of defense with a couple of friends as gara and i was the main damage dealer/nuker ....oh wait did i forget to tell you that you can cast splinter storm on your sentinel and let it have the same damage scaling too? So you're basically dealing infinite damage TWICE ...tell me that's not OP just try...

23 minutes ago, Peter said:

Gara on the other hand if losing the splinter storm is totally vulnerable

If you frequently loose splinter storm then i'm not the one playing gara wrong

 

Like i said...i don't want to nerf DR, i don't want to merf damage...i just want to provide an exchange...you want infinite damage...you're gonna have to loose the DR and vice versa 

Why does that suck? Just because you can't be god mode? 

 

[Xepthrichros]

This forum hits new lows everyday

First, no nukes.

Then, no tanks.

 

Alright boys, sign up for call of duty in space. Frame stats and abilities don't matter anymore. The great gear you took time to farm like arcanes and mods are useless now thanks to nerf. Let's make everything equal at doing damage and soaking damage. 

 

"There are games out there"

 

Go play those games then. What? You broke and can only afford Warframe and want to remake Warframe into those? Not every single game has to be the same, you know that? Don't you? Or maybe you don't. Different games cater to different markets. Not every game has to be Total War, or Civilization, or Dark Souls, or Super Mario. Some are about dying all day and barely making it to the next level. Some are strategy. Some are about enjoying different types of power trips, and warframe is about the power trip of destruction or immortality. You want something else, go get something else. Don't try and turn warframe into a different game. "But a game has to change in order to grow". Games usually change within the genre and market they are catering to, not shift completely from something which power fantasy players enjoy, into a game opposite of power fantasy, where you barely make it through a map without dying.

Personally, I play Warframe AND Dark Souls and enjoy each for different reasons. I know some people only like Warframe cos they feel powerful there and can't bother with something like Dark Souls due to stress. I know others that only like Dark Souls cos they want challenges all the time and think Warframe is easy. Different people, different likes. You don't get to tell the game developers to ditch their current market that enjoys power fantasies to just cater to a market that isn't even playing their game now.. Furthermore, I don't want all the games I own to be the exact same thing. 

And supposing I accede to your bad idea of weakening damage reduction, it SHOULD NOT be a global nerf to any warframe that has such abilities. It should be a thing which applies to only certain game modes and types, perhaps enemies get a special "Damage Penetration" modifier that lets them shoot bullets that bypass damage reduction skills. (I guarantee there will be a lot of community backlash against this, and it will be detested like people hate nullifiers) 

Seriously.. First we have people asking to make warframes all the same with each other (by first asking nukers to stop being able to nuke, then later asking the nerfed nuker to get tankier, so they become like what? A Rhino - tank with weak nuke). Now make games same with each other. This community. It's like they never heard of a games store and maybe consider they can buy a variety of things. Oh no, it's like, they see gameplay of a game out there they really like but can't spend money on that game so they petition the devs to make Warframe into the game they can't buy

Edited August 22, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

14 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

This forum hits new lows everyday

First, no nukes.

Then, no tanks.

 

Alright boys, sign up for call of duty in space. Frame stats and abilities don't matter anymore. The great gear you took time to farm like arcanes and mods are useless now thanks to nerf. Let's make everything equal at doing damage and soaking damage. 

 

"There are games out there"

 

Go play those games then. What? You broke and can only afford Warframe and want to remake Warframe into those? Not every single game has to be the same, you know that? Don't you? Or maybe you don't. Different games cater to different markets. Not every game has to be Total War, or Civilization, or Dark Souls, or Super Mario. Some are about dying all day and barely making it to the next level. Some are strategy. Some are about enjoying different types of power trips, and warframe is about the power trip of destruction or immortality. You want something else, go get something else. Don't try and turn warframe into a different game. "But a game has to change in order to grow". Games usually change within the genre and market they are catering to, not shift completely from something which power fantasy players enjoy, into a game opposite of power fantasy, where you barely make it through a map without dying.

Personally, I play Warframe AND Dark Souls and enjoy each for different reasons. I know some people only like Warframe cos they feel powerful there and can't bother with something like Dark Souls due to stress. I know others that only like Dark Souls cos they want challenges all the time and think Warframe is easy. Different people, different likes. You don't get to tell the game developers to ditch their current market that enjoys power fantasies to just cater to a market that isn't even playing their game now.. Furthermore, I don't want all the games I own to be the exact same thing. 

And supposing I accede to your bad idea of weakening damage reduction, it SHOULD NOT be a global nerf to any warframe that has such abilities. It should be a thing which applies to only certain game modes and types, perhaps enemies get a special "Damage Penetration" modifier that lets them shoot bullets that bypass damage reduction skills. (I guarantee there will be a lot of community backlash against this, and it will be detested like people hate nullifiers) 

Seriously.. First we have people asking to make warframes all the same with each other (by first asking nukers to stop being able to nuke, then later asking the nerfed nuker to get tankier, so they become like what? A Rhino - tank with weak nuke). Now make games same with each other. This community. It's like they never heard of a games store and maybe consider they can buy a variety of things. Oh no, it's like, they see gameplay of a game out there they really like but can't spend money on that game so they petition the devs to make Warframe into the game they can't buy

Wow it's not like this forum is made only for warframe and not other games and it's not like talking about an issue in the forum about it's game makes total sense 

I'm here to talk about warframe

I'm not here to talk about that i should play darksouls or Civil or Cod 

 

And like said from the beginning...i'm not asking for a complete removal of damage reduction

I'm offering an exchange...for dps warframes in particular, you want defense you loose offense you want offense you loose defense 

It's already in the game...but we don't have enough of it

Having both defense and offense at the same time is overkill and rewards no creative thinking 

Stop with "go play another game" crap i've heard a million times

I still would be here making this post if i was playing another game...and i am

[Xepthrichros]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Wow it's not like this forum is made only for warframe and not other games and it's not like talking about an issue in the forum about it's game makes total sense 

I'm here to talk about warframe

And yet you are the one that brought it up in the first place

 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

There are games out there that have damage reduction too but they're like 10's and 20's of percentages

So as I said. you want that 20% reduction? Go to that game.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

And yet you are the one that brought it up in the first place

 

So as I said. you want that 20% reduction? Go to that game.

Ok i'll go play that game...

You're done? Ok good 

No need tell me twice

If you don't like my idea, or my post just tell me why it wouldn't work on warframe

Don't tell me to play another game, it's not going anywhere and just wasting time

[TeaHawk]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Or a strong example for an overpowered defensive ability that provides both damage reduction and infinite damage is gara's splinter strom, we can nerf it by reducing the damage reduction value with every rising damage from splinter storm's damage 

No. You've never really played her, I think. It's not easy at all to be bound to recast your ability each 30 seconds. You barely have time to find energy, then cast it, then leave the circle, then break the circle, then again look for energy. It is very demanding gameplay. You can't call this low effort. It's not an opinion. It's just wrong.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

10 minutes ago, TeaHawk said:

No. You've never really played her,

I mained her for months

She was my go to in ESO...arbies, and pretty much anything and everything

My build has a lot of duration so while yes i do have to recast it in the last 10 or 5 seconds to keep the damage, i have enough time to go around and kill stuff, and if i don't want the damage on splinter storm, i have my 4 to nuke the entire system

Maybe i touched some unwanted spots for some gara mains.

 

I guess players do want to have stacks of 90% damage reductions and deal millions of damage overtime at the same time 🤔

Well i've learned something today

Edited August 22, 2019 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[TeaHawk]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I guess players do want to have stacks of 90% damage reductions and deal millions of damage overtime at the same time

Even with 300% melee damage riven and all damage mods on jaw sword, you will only have around 50k damage while breaking your mass vitrify with a high duration build and acceptable range. Only 50% of that damage is stacked in your shatter shield. That means that to have 1.000.000 damage you have to recast it 40 times. And you won't be wasting energy because of risk of loosing stacks. An average time between casts of mass vitrify must be around 22 seconds. On average you have to maintain your shatter shield while continuously stacking damage at least for 15 minutes in order to reach 1.000.000 damage. I don't think it's that op, as long as you have to be so concentrated on time management while playing. You could not renew your shatter shield at time? You lose all stacks and must restart at ground zeros. It's just rewarding. And it should stay rewarding. It's just that active gameplay DE wants players to be engaged in.

To mention, you should invest in riven and mods to reach these levels of destruction.

Edited August 22, 2019 by TeaHawk

[Xepthrichros]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

just tell me why it wouldn't work on warframe

I already told you.

Warframe already has a pre-existing player base that likes these abilities and mechanics (like nukes, and high DR) and you want to take it away and make it like another game. So you want other people's likes and preferences to be ruined, just to satisfy your own.

To that, I say no. I don't even use Gara often but I am not going to advocate her being nerfed just cos some person (i.e. you) doesn't like it. You don't want high DR? Don't use a frame with high DR. Unequip adaptation. Unequip arcanes. Unequip mods. Use Ember or Nyx then. Take them to arbitration where the Saryn cannot nuke everything. Enjoy your challenge mode. But don't impose your desire of challenge on people that don't want it. Again, this game does not have to be a uniform experience for everyone.

 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, Xepthrichros said:

I already told you.

Warframe already has a pre-existing player base that likes these abilities and mechanics (like nukes, and high DR) and you want to take it away and make it like another game. So you want other people's likes and preferences to be ruined, just to satisfy your own.

To that, I say no. I don't even use Gara often but I am not going to advocate her being nerfed just cos some person (i.e. you) doesn't like it. You don't want high DR? Don't use a frame with high DR. Unequip adaptation. Unequip arcanes. Unequip mods. Use Ember or Nyx then. Take them to arbitration where the Saryn cannot nuke everything. Enjoy your challenge mode. But don't impose your desire of challenge on people that don't want it. Again, this game does not have to be a uniform experience for everyone.

 

Fair enough

But i will tell you what i've told many before 

Unequipping all the mods just to get some challenge is just stupid 

What's the point of having an option to build if you don't use it

I don't want to limit myself, I want the game to limit me

Having easy accessible 90% damage reduction is lazy 

And yet my post was not encouraging removing them from the game...but to provide a swtich to fighting styles for the simple example of "you can't attack while blocking"

 

But i guess for me i can play other squishy warframes like banshee or mirage 

But as long as there are literally frames that play the game for you, warframe will always be a boring and unrewarding game for many, 

You yourself will find you wanting more challenge and more ways for the game to challenge your playstyle, in time

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, TeaHawk said:

Even with 300% melee damage riven and all damage mods on jaw sword, you will only have around 50k damage while breaking your mass vitrify with a high duration build and acceptable range. Only 50% of that damage is stacked in your shatter shield. That means that to have 1.000.000 damage you have to recast it 40 times. And you won't be wasting energy because of risk of loosing stacks. An average time between casts of mass vitrify must be around 22 seconds. On average you have to maintain your shatter shield while continuously stacking damage at least for 15 minutes in order to reach 1.000.000 damage. I don't think it's that op, as long as you have to be so concentrated on time management while playing. You could not renew your shatter shield at time? You lose all stacks and must restart at ground zeros. It's just rewarding. And it should stay rewarding. It's just that active gameplay DE wants players to be engaged in.

To mention, you should invest in riven and mods to reach these levels of destruction.

I can already reach insane damage numbers for her splinter storm easy with her

I never wanted that nerfed 

I just wanted the DR nerfed the more you stack damage

Along with other DR abilities

But i think i understand you now, gara specifically may not need that...since she's mostly a tank/CC with slight dps 

Alright

But i still think there are some damage mitigation abilities out there that souldn't be so easy to have 

But one thing to have an opinion i guess

[TeaHawk]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

But i think i understand you now, gara specifically may not need that...since she's mostly a tank/CC with slight dps 

Alright

Yeah. Because with maxed range you have only 7 meters of splinter storm dealing damage. With reasonable duration build it's rather 5. Hence, you have to engage enemies on very short distances, which puts you in danger. Even if enemies are dying quasi-instantly, you're getting shot on the way to them. And you have no time to hide, when you should resupply energy to recast you mass vitrify. You must have good damage reduction to overcome this.
 

22 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

But i still think there are some damage mitigation abilities out there that souldn't be so easy to have 

There are a couple of them that are really easy to use. However, that would not solve a problem you're talking about. It will only make people sacrifce another slot to put adaptation, which could slow down the gameplay.
I assume that there are really tanky frames, that does not look tanky at the first look. For instance I'm speaking about Nova with her augment. Although I can make a good tank out of her, I'd have to sacrifice too much slots on that losing range on her main ability, which is unacceptable. Therefore, these defensive abilities are for players who cannot sacrifice slots for surivabiltity. When I look at my frames, I barely have one used for it. I often don't put tanky mods at all, in order to make my frames better in terms of CC/DPS/Support.

After modding frames this way even with 90% damage reduction given by the ability, I cannot run around unthoroughly. And I cannot easily survive 80+lvl lancers without my friend playing support. And I think it's a viable trade-off. It gives me the opportunity to use abilities instead of sacrificing slots and arcanes for tankiness. But it also makes me vulnerable and energy-depending. There's more management in maintaining ability than in putting adaptation+umbral set.

To resume, I think we should keep defensive abilities as they are. But we should focus more on our utility in builds rather than pure defense. That will make your abilities more relevant for the team and at the same time provide a real need for teamplay.

Edited August 22, 2019 by TeaHawk

[ShortCat]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

And now players are looking to overhaul older squishy characters to make them more like the recent one...boring, effortless and provide no brain cells to use 

Allow me to quote myself from another thread.

On 2019-08-20 at 11:31 AM, ShortCat said:

Frames with low effort DR skills nourish bad game habbits. Then we could add weapons like Plasmor, Ignis or Catchmoon that forfeit aiming. As a result, if you desire, you can build the lowest effort loadout and win the game without breaking a sweat. At the same time Warfraem has no difficulty setting, so that your gear decides your difficulty.

It only gets critical when players, who never let go of support wheels begin to voice their opinions.

[TeaHawk]

17 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

Plasmor, Ignis or Catchmoon

Staticor is way worse. It's literally universal killing machine having range, damage and huge magazine. No aiming needed at all, no obstacles to its wall-piercing power. Ignins at least makes you keep reticle in single zone. Staticor is best while spamming in random directions.

Edited August 22, 2019 by TeaHawk

[Xepthrichros]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I don't want to limit myself, I want the game to limit me

Now you are just being lazy. Create your own challenge and stop asking people to spoon feed you.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

You yourself will find you wanting more challenge and more ways for the game to challenge your playstyle, in time

Oh I do this already. I use my nuking frames less and been spending more time with Wukong and others lately. But it is my option. My preference. I don't expect the whole playerbase to use Wukong and other suboptimal builds with me. On a related note of not imposing my desires on others, if there's a nightwave task requiring 10 finishers, or getting X kills with X damage type in general, and I am concerned I will not get to do enough finishers or get enough kills in ONE public game session due to presence of other  players who nuke things before I get there, I simply switch to solo so that I can do my finishers or ensure my kills at my pace. I don't tell the whole world to "hold up, i'm doing finishers or getting X kills for nightwave here, time to ban all press 4 to wins since I am busy doing my task"

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Xepthrichros