When will PRIME ACCESS BUYERS be heard?

[True_Naeblis]

On 2019-08-30 at 3:35 AM, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

When will the buyers be heard?

When you stop buying. 

It really is this simple. DE has made a lot of changes to the game I don't enjoy and has continually ignored detailed, fairly-presented critiques and criticisms. Endless Kuva had massive workshop feedback before and after; it was ignored. The changes to daily logins got massive feedback before and after; it was largely ignored. The insane mob spawns of Plains of Venus, the ridiculous level of effects, the negation of abilities, and the bullet sponge design of the Orb fights were all intelligently critiqued, including on video; all of this was largely ignored. They have themselves acknowledged the over the top grind of much of the game; it goes on unchanged.

DE goes about their business as they see fit, and as long as players keep throwing money at the game no matter what they do why would they ever change anything? I stopped spending and I maybe log in here and there every few months for a bit just to find it's still business as usual so I go on my merry way again. Have some self control and stop swiping if you want them to get the picture. The Warframe community is large and active, and if it would stand together instead of dithering about and complaining then still throwing money at the game maybe things would be different.

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

16 hours ago, RamonLeeYJ said:

Wow quit it, you are entitled. I like being trolly because it's obvious you get progressively dismissive of other people's opinion when they're seriously explaining marketing and sales tactics, not even defending DE.

But no. You accuse people of projecting, putting words into your mouth (hypocrisy much?), assuming vets only buy PAs, calling them noobs, claiming them having an inferiority complex left and right, not like you majored in social sciences or something, which accentuates your insecurities so much it disgusts me. 

All because you are using straw man arguments from the very beginning and you snark people endlessly. Personalist, really?

What a lost cause, I'll end the discussion with you, not the other way around. Enjoy your capitalist greens while you still have it.

You like being trolly because that's what you are.

LOL 'marketing' and 'sales' tactics by two randoms who can`t understand the english language.

I had the patience to reply these two a few times before their troll nature and past traumas were revealed. 

I didn`t assume only vets buy PAs, I`m stating with a 100% certainty that veterans are the ones who buy Prime Access the most, showed enough evidence that proved it, in case basic common sense alone doesn`t do it.

Not coincidentially, both the PA program AND veterans have been disregared for a while now.

Nice job projecting yourself on me again, I like the word 'disgust' too, proves how farther from being able to see things coldly and clearly you are.

'Straw man arguments' coming from the guy who started and ended his pitiful yet predictable excuse of a contribution being a troll.

Now, if nothing else was enough of an evidence, this last line of yours is just there to prove how you, along with the guy who`s been playing for less than an year and never bought a prime access, get touched in your insecurities whenever anything that is remotely related to money comes up.

'You think your money is better than mine?'

'Enjoy your capitalist greens while you still have it'

'You think you're special?'

You don't know how much I have, you don't know if I lied, you don't know any of that. Might be true, might not. Truth is, I got into you.

I hope you get more greens, i hope they last everlong, I hope many people are benefitted therethrough with jobs and good will for those who cannot work.

But please, at least try to hide your insecurities and then get over them, show them who's boss.

Edited September 1, 2019 by (PS4)cdzbrbr

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

2 hours ago, True_Naeblis said:

It really is this simple. DE has made a lot of changes to the game I don't enjoy and has continually ignored detailed, fairly-presented critiques and criticisms. Endless Kuva had massive workshop feedback before and after; it was ignored. The changes to daily logins got massive feedback before and after; it was largely ignored. The insane mob spawns of Plains of Venus, the ridiculous level of effects, the negation of abilities, and the bullet sponge design of the Orb fights were all intelligently critiqued, including on video; all of this was largely ignored. They have themselves acknowledged the over the top grind of much of the game; it goes on unchanged.

DE goes about their business as they see fit, and as long as players keep throwing money at the game no matter what they do why would they ever change anything? I stopped spending and I maybe log in here and there every few months for a bit just to find it's still business as usual so I go on my merry way again. Have some self control and stop swiping if you want them to get the picture. The Warframe community is large and active, and if it would stand together instead of dithering about and complaining then still throwing money at the game maybe things would be different.

Perfectly put.

I couldn't add nor remove one thing from your diagnosis. 

Except maybe that i'd include it's been clear for a while now that DE has been putting all their energy into the 'bite size' community and new players, and, consequentially, the things that (would) appeal the most to them.  And that's why people like you and me put the game down and question ourselves whether to buy things.

New players have the retention rate problem as well, but for different reasons. Somehow or for some reason, they only focus on the retention of half their community. Can`t blame them entirely, it`s a fallacy that's very easy to fall prey to. 

Stating on your reports that the game has gotten X amount of players must sound better than saying that less people has put the game down.

 

[True_Naeblis]

It is a little strange, though, because unless Warframe is an anomaly, one, it still takes more resources to attract new players than to retain your old, and two, in most F2P games, the majority of players never spend any money, and most players to spend a substantial amount. It's easy to see how much more it costs to get new players than retain in that there are all these new YouTube and advertising campains with people blowing up cop cars with the Opticor, posters all over major cities, and trailers playing before new movies. Those things aren't going to bring back the old players that quit or keep the diehards here, they're going to attract new people with the flash and fun that plays off the Fortnight, etc., vibe. That's a lot of money that wouldn't be necessary if this game maintained stronger, and more positive word of mouth like it used to. It's easy to see in any thread critiquing the game how polarized the community has become. Some players offer real feedback, others toe the DE line no matter what and try to shout down anyone who doesn't or make excuses for what are objectively poor decisions by DE or decisions made clearly based on preying on FOMO and addictive behaviors rather than making the game enjoyable.

Even if all those campaigns succeed, most of the players who pick up the game still aren't gong to spend. Some will get pissed when they realize they need to spend to go beyond a few frames and weapons. Some will be upset when they realized they shouldn't have sold things to make room because now they just need to craft them again to make something new. Some will hate the poorly designed quests like Natah that send everyone to the Wiki. Some will get upset at the progression that goes from fun to endless grind. Most of them will never spend, yet DE is trying to recruit them instead of designing good, quality, enjoyable content to keep veterans around. I'm having more fun on mobile games than on Warframe or any of the other titles I'd been playing on PC because all these dev and publisher houses continue to ignore what's asked for or even bother to play their own game and see what's actually fun. Even some of the most dedicated content creators have gotten burned out with the grind of Nightwave, some voicing their opinions at it and playing less, some recently walking away for good. I'm not sure what else needs to happen for DE to get that something's wrong. Games aren't forever, but as long as they're around they should be enjoyable, not endless grind.

In the end I just don't spend. Maybe they'll get it when their coffers dry up enough.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 hours ago, True_Naeblis said:

I stopped spending and I maybe log in here and there every few months for a bit just to find it's still business as usual so I go on my merry way again.

☝️

How do you not realise that this is the last nail in the coffin for that argument you're trying to make? 

DE is a business. They have to make money in order to keep the lights on. You, and others like you who are dissatisfied stop spending your money. Me, and the people like me who are satisfied keep spending out money. 

The lights are still on. 

You are just a part of the highly vocal, highly entitled, minority. And you have been outvoted in the only way that counts. You sit here in your echo chamber screeching happily about how terrible it all is, and patting yourselves on the back because you agree with each other. But the game keeps going on, without you. It's like that sometimes. 

How many people does it take telling the OP that flashing his wallet and how much they spent doesn't buy him special treatment? He could easily have made his point without trying to make an issue out of his spending habits, and the thread would have been better off without it. But then I suppose I was asking for a lot out of someone who can't figure out that an increase in concurrent players year after year is the definition of growth. 

If you want a business to grow, you have to cater to the new customers. 

[True_Naeblis]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

☝️

How do you not realise that this is the last nail in the coffin for that argument you're trying to make? 

DE is a business. They have to make money in order to keep the lights on. You, and others like you who are dissatisfied stop spending your money. Me, and the people like me who are satisfied keep spending out money. 

The lights are still on. 

You are just a part of the highly vocal, highly entitled, minority. And you have been outvoted in the only way that counts. You sit here in your echo chamber screeching happily about how terrible it all is, and patting yourselves on the back because you agree with each other. But the game keeps going on, without you. It's like that sometimes. 

How many people does it take telling the OP that flashing his wallet and how much they spent doesn't buy him special treatment? He could easily have made his point without trying to make an issue out of his spending habits, and the thread would have been better off without it. But then I suppose I was asking for a lot out of someone who can't figure out that an increase in concurrent players year after year is the definition of growth. 

If you want a business to grow, you have to cater to the new customers. 

If you want to have a discussion please bring valid points. Again, it costs more to get new customers than it does to retain old ones. Consistent customers also spend more than new customers, who in a F2P game are more likely to be part of the majority who never spend a dime. So no, if you want your business to grow what you need to do is cater to the kind of people who will actually inject dollars into the game. How am I entitled? I spent my money while I enjoyed the game and and I made my dissatisfaction clear by one, making clear, detailed posts about what I no longer enjoyed in the game, and two, when nothing changed I stopped giving DE money. You are absolutely, 100% free to do whatever you like, but you will never, ever make a convincing argument that continuing to throw money at a system that does not function the way you want will ever make change. You will also not change the established research that shows that new customers have the highest cost to pull in and retain and the least likely ROI.

If you're serious about trying to understand it look up the Pareto Chart for revenue, Harrah's Loyalty Card research, and basic principles of customer lifetime value and retention. You completely missed the points I made and then went off on something that none of the posts in here are actually arguing for. We know the game goes on. We're members of the community and we can voice our thoughts and provide evidence as we see fit. You being upset about it won't change that.

Lastly, there's no one in here patting one another on the back or asking for special treatment. I really am not sure where you get this from because there's certainly nothing along those lines in my posts. It's a factual statement that DE has continually ignored feedback until it hits them in the face. They ignored players saying over and over again in detail that Prime Access was too expensive for those who only wanted accessories, yet it took a very public and viral post by a content creator for them to listen. I cannot help that they choose to ignore detailed, calm feedback. I cannot help that players like you choose to throw money and time at the game no matter what. What I can help is whether or not I contribute to the status quo. I choose not to, and in that vein I have detailed what I don't like, why I hardly play anymore, and made clear that I won't spend another dollar until the system improves.

If you want to actually discuss any of those points I'm more than happy to. If you want to refute anything that's been stated with contrary evidence feel free to, but do not come with straw men and veiled ad hominem attacks and try and present them as rebuttals to what I and others have brought up. At least don't do those things and expect any further response from me.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

40 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

If you want to have a discussion please bring valid points.

How do you do that when you quit so long ago? 

40 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

Again, it costs more to get new customers than it does to retain old ones.

Retaining old customers does not lead to growth. 

 

40 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

So no, if you want your business to grow what you need to do is cater to the kind of people who will actually inject dollars into the game.

That's what they're doing. You just can't grasp that you are not the type of player that injects the most dollars anymore, despite that very fact that you try to use it as a badge of honour. 

And while you postured, the lights remained on. 

40 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

How am I entitled? I spent my money while I enjoyed the game and and I made my dissatisfaction clear by one, making clear, detailed posts about what I no longer enjoyed in the game, and two, when nothing changed I stopped giving DE money.

Because you believe that the game must be made to cater to you. If you don't enjoy it, that's fine. You made your points and I am sure that you made them well. But DE obviously disagreed and so you stopped playing. But the game continues to grow in your absence. Yet here you are, continuing in your campaign, the one that failed... how long ago now? 

You still think that you speak with the voice that would benefit the game the most, and faced with the obvious fact that the game grew without you, you come back here to seek support amongst like-minded people, to make your voice heard, to force them to listen. 

That's why I can say that you are acting like a person who believes themselves "entitled". 

40 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

You are absolutely, 100% free to do whatever you like, but you will never, ever make a convincing argument that continuing to throw money at a system that does not function the way you want will ever make change. You will also not change the established research that shows that new customers have the highest cost to pull in and retain and the least likely ROI.

Who said that you should paying for the money if you don't want to? I said that there are many of us paying money because we're currently quite content. And we're going to be doing it no matter how much someone who admits that they don't play the game sits there grumbling. 

And let's get it very clear, you are going to have an impossible time providing any evidence to show that only retaining old players while never recruiting new players will lead to growth. So you can drop the red herring. 

40 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

We're members of the community and we can voice our thoughts and provide evidence as we see fit. You being upset about it won't change that.

Isn't it wonderful then, that I have never tried to silence you? The fact that your voice hasn't counted for much, repeatedly, over a prolonged period, doesn't mean that you have been silenced. You have been heard, and your contributions found lacking. 

40 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

Lastly, there's no one in here patting one another on the back or asking for special treatment. I really am not sure where you get this from because there's certainly nothing along those lines in my posts.

Whatever you say, buddy. But once again what you're saying isn't jiving with what others are seeing. Want to see it? Read the rest of that paragraph you wrote, lamenting the fact that they didn't listen to you; that those of us who are enjoying the game, don't agree with you; that we who enjoy the game won't follow your example; and that you won't be the one whose vision will be made real. 

 

42 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

If you want to actually discuss any of those points I'm more than happy to. If you want to refute anything that's been stated with contrary evidence feel free to, but do not come with straw men and veiled ad hominem attacks and try and present them as rebuttals to what I and others have brought up. At least don't do those things and expect any further response from me.

You promise? 

[Champagne]

I've also bought just about every pack

 

I like the boosters, though I do feel sorta shafted when I pay much more for something that ends up getting released much cheaper with the unvaultings, maybe I'm just greedy.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

2 hours ago, Nepeta-EN- said:

I've also bought just about every pack

I like the boosters, though I do feel sorta shafted when I pay much more for something that ends up getting released much cheaper with the unvaultings, maybe I'm just greedy.

Well they don't get unvaulted until like two years after being vaulted, and things don't get vaulted for like two years. Sure you're paying more, but you're getting it literally years earlier.

Edited September 3, 2019 by (XB1)Erudite Prime

[(PSN)Claudija]

So what constitutes a veteran? Time spent playing, money spent on Access... I mean, that I never figured out. I've almost a thousand hours in, MR10, just reaching Neptune - but bought at least ten PA and only missed Nyx Prime since Trinity Prime was given through Twitch; yet this makes me which side - vet or new?

For me, the PA and Vaults are fun and helpful; especially as some like Zephyr Prime has yet to be offered to me on PS4 and I'm still struggling with Star Chart progression plus as a Solo main some missions are tougher alone but I'm going along okay since deciding Khora is best for me to do things with but I'm waiting on Banshee Prime, Zephyr Prime to pop out for my wallet as Nyx Prime and Mirage Prime haven't long been vaulted and I'm collecting all the girls for mastering first- I've every normal version and the Primes bar the four I've covered. 

So how do I class myself with all this; vet or new?