We Need A Lore/Main Story Overhaul

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 hours ago, TheKazz91 said:

Yo let's not point fingers

Go look at the last Devstream when Rebecca asked Steve if there will be any lore tied to Gauss or Grendel. The creative director is solely responsible for the incoherent lore in this game. But instead of a lore overhaul, he wants to push out space battles. Keep in mind, they've been working on Emperyiam for 2 years +. The lack of lore falls squarely on leadership direction. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by (XB1)SixGunLove

[TheKazz91]

4 hours ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

The lack of lore falls squarely on leadership direction. 

It doesn't matter what the reason is or who's decision it is. IT'S NOT CONSTRUCTIVE. Not only that but Steven isn't the only person responsible for making decisions within DE. This is literally explicitly stated in the 3rd sticky post in this forum. Again if your goal is to help get the lore reworked into a coherent structure blaming Steven is shooting yourself in the food because it's the worst possible way to go about convincing DE that it's something they should work on. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by TheKazz91

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, TheKazz91 said:

It doesn't matter what the reason is or who's decision it is.

Actually it does. You think this thread is unique? Use the search function.

There is a reason why lore isn't coherent and it's the way DE does development. Leadership plays a major part in that decision making process. 

[TheKazz91]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

Actually it does. You think this thread is unique? Use the search function.

Ok so this is the last I am going to say on this: I am not trying to argue about whose fault it is with you I am literally trying to help you get your voice heard by DE. If you want DE to just ignore every post you make then by all means keep targeting specific staff members. However if you want DE to give a single ounce of weigh to any of your opinions then don't target specific people. It's literally that simple. There doesn't need to be a discussion on the matter its literally covered in the 3rd sticky post.

[Teridax68]

My personal assessment of the lore and story in Warframe is that it's great... but only starting from The Second Dream. Almost everything leading up to it is currently a mess:

• Huge chunks of lore are missing because they were contained in events that are no longer accessible to the player, which makes it impossible to understand the context of many planets, tilesets, characters, and mission types without consulting the wiki.
• There are quite a few voice lines and older features that have aged poorly: on the really small and pedantic side, there are those lines in Grineer Asteroid Mobile Defense missions, or Orokin Derelict Vaults, where the Lotus mispronounces Orokin, or Ordis's bad jokes ("Your chosen warframe suits you!"), but on the complete other end, there's stuff like Zanuka, whose existence raises a huge number of questions given what we end up discovering about warframes later on.
• There are a few characters and factions whose treatment breaks continuity, or is just plain confusing: the Sentient are talked about extensively in Cetus, even though they're supposed to be a secret everyone had forgotten about until recently, and Nef Anyo's own Orb Mothers are similarly introduced very early on, and already have some history with the Solaris at the time we encounter them, even though they could only have begun existing after we'd completed a quest. Alad V especially is a walking pile of lore spaghetti, as he exists simultaneously in three completely different time periods.
• Captain Vor dies on Mercury, and Lech Kril dies on Mars, but they both reappear as a duo boss on Ceres because... reasons. Also, we still have utterly irrelevant bosses like the Jackal, the Sergeant, and the Hyena Pack.
• More generally, Assassination missions raise a lot of questions: are we actually killing the same person over and over again (and if so, how are they surviving?), or are we simply revisiting the same moment in time (and if so, why are we getting drops that require multiple runs to complete?).
• Teshin is given zero introduction before The War Within, despite his critical role in the story there, which has confused many players as to who he was and how we knew him when we saw him then.

With this in mind, I can agree with a lot of the OP's suggestions: we need a continuous lore experience that gives us all the information and context we need, which likely means reintroducing old events as quests to fill the gaps. Every planet definitely needs its own story and its own villain, culminating in their respective assassination mission, before we move onto the next. DE also needs to do a consistency pass so that continuity is respected, terms and concepts are given and explained to us before we're treated like we understand them, and characters are properly introduced by the time they become relevant in later quests. Beyond that, there's still some fleshing out to do: it's great that we're getting a focus on the Sentient, but there are still several filler planets with no real tilesets or bosses of their own.

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 hours ago, TheKazz91 said:

am not trying to argue about whose fault it is with you 

I'm not arguing. I'm just trying to explain to you what is. 

 Lore is not a priority for Digital Extremes. It never will be because of the way they have to develop their game. Fundamental hotfixes, patches and graphical upgrades are and will be forever and ongoing, not Lore. 

But please continue with your talking points if it makes you feel better, unfortunately and sadly it will be forgotten in a month. But atleast you tried. 

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I'll agree, especially with Teridax68's post above.

Tyl Regor is mad at me for something I never did... accusing me of murder, and something about tube men?
Alad V is just all sorts of mixed up.
Cetus is introduced way too early in the star chart/story-wise - should be hidden until after The War Within.
The whole Teshin thing was a big "What's going on here? Who is this?"
Bosses regularly talk to me like we have a long history of interaction, and all I've done has been wiping out a few of their garrisons. (since the Grineer are clones and similar reasons for the other factions, suspension of disbelief / knowing it's just a game, allowed me to ignore the whole "killing bosses multiple times" thing... less so the whole "return in a duo-battle" mentioned earlier.)

and I didn't want to read the wiki, cuz spoilers.

The relays may lead people through the star chart, but the main quest line is full of holes and broken links in the chain. Bringing those past events back as part of the core storyline for each planet would be a good start. (I also agree on the idea of having the story missions take place on pre-designed stages that showcase the tilesets in their best possible configurations for the mission in question.)

Story-locking nodes like the Ropalolyst and Vay Hek's earth branch coming in from a later part of the star chart's spiral would help streamline the story too. There could be a time-line built into the interface that progresses along with the main storyline, revealing nodes as they become available through the story. (I'd also untie star chart completion from deploying extractors and availability of nightmare nodes)

The star chart may have to be reimagined, and with the Railjack thing, this is more possible.

 

[(PSN)drollive96]

On 2019-09-08 at 7:12 PM, Gentleman_Bird said:

Something needs to be done about Alad V for sure. From a new player's perspective, the timeline of events is all jumbled, with many pieces of the puzzle missing from events long past

Alad v is a very confusing character for new players to understand, especially since he cant make up his mind as to which faction hes in. He was corpus then switched to infested then went back to the corpus, then started working with the sentients, he really needs to make up his mind , if he were to join the grineer he would effectively been in every faction in the game at one point

[TheKazz91]

1 hour ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

Story-locking nodes like the Ropalolyst and Vay Hek's earth branch coming in from a later part of the star chart's spiral would help streamline the story too. There could be a time-line built into the interface that progresses along with the main storyline, revealing nodes as they become available through the story. 

I agree with this a well I'd Invision something like the main story line quest for that planet takes you through say 80% of the nodes on each planet with 2-3 of them remaining locked and unaccessible (which tends to be the case for Vey Heck's branch by proxy as most new players can't complete those missions without being heavily carried dude to lack of mods) then around about Neptune it opens up an main quest that will take you back to a number of those story locked nodes then. And this basic cycle repeats itself after the sacrifice to unlock nodes like the amalgams and rapololyst on Jupiter when they make sense. 

As far as unlinking extractors and nightmare mission from node completion I agree, I'd align it to the completion of that planets main storyline quest instead.

Edited September 11, 2019 by TheKazz91

[Kaggelos]

I agree with this post.

Also, remember in all the Mass Effect games, where you talked to your crewmates and other NPCs and they talked about their respective races? Or when they talked about the lore and worldbuilding? And it was presented at key moments in the story, so as to not leave the player lost as to what is going on.

For example, already pre-existing NPC's could have some expanded dialog with exposition about the state of the world. Maroo could talk about her orokin artifacts, treasures and her stars. Darvo about the Corpus, who are they, what are they, how they came to be, etc, especially with him being an ex-corpus on the run, his opinion on them would be interesting. The Syndicate leaders or some other schmuck could talk about their respective syndicate's modus operandi and raison d'etre. What and who do they stand for? Their ideology, their goal, etc.

Even the Lotus could provide us with the most basic information about the state of the world we just woke up to. What are the Grineer, the Corpus, the infestation (without ruining spoilers for future quests). And speaking of spoiler heavy quests, after you complete those 2 or 3 specific quests, then the information available to us would be expanded and the Lotus would be willing to share more, thus unlocking more dialog options on her dialog tree when we talk to her.

And, forgive my most probable lack of knowledge in regards to the production aspect of such an endeavor of DE's behalf, but i think all you need is to write the dialog for those characters, record them, and implement them into the game proper. The writing, heck, even I can do it in like, a week. Voice actors, already available as far as i know. The most complex part of that would probably be the coding and scripting of the dialog's integration into the game.

Anyway, the game, with it's incredible lore and story could very well benefit from such an improvement.