Revenant's Thralls

[Demotros]

Other aspects aside, it would be nice if you could hold the ability button to detonate the thralls. Maybe taking some percent of max health damage, so you can't just tag and blow up all the enemies, but still get a chance at pillars.

 

This is mostly so you don't end up moving away from your thralls and having to wait for the timer to expire before catching new ones. No time to sweep up between battles, especially when doing Sanctuary Onslaught types.

 

[Hixlysss]

I like that. Specifically because "Moved away from the thralls and waiting for the timer" yeah.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Or, now hear me out on this one, we remove the ability in it’s entirety.

[Pizzarugi]

12 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Or, now hear me out on this one, we remove the ability in it’s entirety.

Or, or, now hear me out on this one, we give his thralls immunity from friendly fire damage to all except the Revenant who owns them. Let him decide where and when he wants his pillars deployed.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Pizzarugi

[Klaleara]

23 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Or, or, now hear me out on this one, we give his thralls immunity from friendly fire damage to all except the Revenant who owns them. Let him decide where and when he wants his pillars deployed.

Theres a reason that they can be killed.  Wave based modes.  Pretty annoying when 1 MC'd is preventing the whole mode from moving forward.

[000l000]

il y a 8 minutes, Klaleara a dit :

Theres a reason that they can be killed.  Wave based modes.  Pretty annoying when 1 MC'd is preventing the whole mode from moving forward.

Thralls do not prevent next wave from happening. In fact it makes the next wave happening faster if you can control a really tough eneny.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Or, or, now hear me out on this one, we give his thralls immunity from friendly fire damage to all except the Revenant who owns them. Let him decide where and when he wants his pillars deployed.

Better to just replace the ability entirely.

[Pizzarugi]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Better to just replace the ability entirely.

Nah, Warframe needs more petmasters, and Revenant would be viable as one if teammates couldn't kill them. 😛

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Nah, Warframe needs more petmasters, and Revenant would be viable as one if teammates couldn't kill them. 😛

Revenant will never be viable with his current ability set. Better to just replace his 1-3. Maybe actually make him a proper Eidolon frame.

[PsiWarp]

Enthrall needs a little more than that I think...

Tap-cast while active, enthralls the new target and removes the oldest one if you are at the cap.

Hold-cast while active, all primary and subservient thralls are released from Enthrall, causing them to be knocked down.

Thralls receive damage from players in increments, rather than instantly. Their Spectral Vomvalyst masks store damage in a pool, dealing 5% of the total at the time to the thrall with every second that passes. All remaining damage is dealt instantly if the thrall's Enthrall duration ends (by the timer running out, or Revenant himself manually un-thralls them with a hold-cast).

Thralls also store damage from Danse Macabre with the change to Enthrall's Vomvalyst mask. Once a thrall is hit by a Danse Macabre laser, if they die by any means, they drop their Overshield pickup and create their pillar.

[(XBOX)LZonut]

Could make pillars stronger, but i think they should be removed, no Eidolon I know has a damaging pillar (lasers count as columns, which are MUCH bigger).

Really I just want more functionality between his thralls. Reave shouldn't be killing thralls IMO, it should be using them to kill enemies. That is one of the reasons why I want pillars and reave changed. It makes you focused on one thing; killing the things that are supposed to be helping you.

Edited September 26, 2019 by (XB1)LordZonut

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)LordZonut said:

Could make pillars stronger, but i think they should be removed, no Eidolon I know has a damaging pillar (lasers count as columns, which are MUCH bigger).

No Eidolon has mind control powers either.

Actually the Gauntlyst has those giant light pillars, so the damage pillars do make sense while the Thrall making doesn’t.

Edited September 26, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)LZonut]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Actually the Gauntlyst has those giant light pillars, so the damage pillars do make sense while the Thrall making doesn’t.

I'll go 50/50 on that. The pillars shoot bullets, which the lasers don't. But it would be really cool to see those lasers on Danse Macabre.

Speaking of Danse, it would be cool for an augment to shoot a single empowered laser beam from an arm cannon, or maybe bullets. Maybe even an exalted weapon? (Probably not, but would be first exalted rifle)

[000l000]

Le 25/09/2019 à 23:48, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

Revenant will never be viable with his current ability set. Better to just replace his 1-3. Maybe actually make him a proper Eidolon frame.

Revenant not viable ? He's pretty much immortal and his 1&3 synergy is the only ability in the entire game than can kill any enemy at any level. His 3 even allows him to move faster than anything else while using danse macabre, killing thralls and healing himself in the process.

I'm not sure you're playing him a lot at this point.

[(XBOX)LZonut]

7 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Revenant not viable ? He's pretty much immortal and his 1&3 synergy is the only ability in the entire game than can kill any enemy at any level.

Banshee sonar can stack enough times that you can kill enemies at levels up to about 9999 or so. Add rhino buffs and sonic fracture to remove armor plus Viral Slash damage build for a sniper and you can still kill some lvl 9999 when they have sonar stacks.

Edited September 28, 2019 by (XB1)LordZonut

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Revenant not viable ? He's pretty much immortal and his 1&3 synergy is the only ability in the entire game than can kill any enemy at any level. His 3 even allows him to move faster than anything else while using danse macabre, killing thralls and healing himself in the process.

I'm not sure you're playing him a lot at this point.

You haven’t been part of his numerous discussions, have you?

His 1 is garbage. Everybody goes on and on about all these different functions for it, but all it takes is a bullet to the head and all those features become useless.

Mesmer skin is the worst tank ability: it’s a charges based defense ability, in a horse shooter. There’s a reasons it’s only useless in Index, because everywhere else those charges get chewed Incredibly fast. And People say “oh just run away or use rolling guard to recast it”, no other tank frame has to run away to recast their tank ability, they either have the ability to recast without losing the defense or theirs safeguards in their kits to keep them safe once the tank ability drains. And the 100% damage reduction is pointless. There’s no benefit to facing off against level 20 bajillion enemies, So there’s no need for a defense ability for that.

Reave: requires Enthrall to perform the worst of all the one shots in the game. And enthrall spends 99% of its time as a useless damage pillars. Reave is trash. You’re literally better off taking any normal damage frame to kill enemies.

Danse Macabre:  very good Damage ability. If it wasn’t for Mesmer Skin actively preventing this ability from scaling it would be great.

And all this without going into his numerous anti synergies and contradictions within his kit. Revenant is a bad frame, quite possibly the worst. End of Story.

[-VS-Storker]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb 000l000:

Revenant not viable ? He's pretty much immortal and his 1&3 synergy is the only ability in the entire game than can kill any enemy at any level. His 3 even allows him to move faster than anything else while using danse macabre, killing thralls and healing himself in the process.

I'm not sure you're playing him a lot at this point.

Don’t mind him everyone who understood the frame and know basic movement tried to explain it to him but he don’t listen and says always the same 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

42 minutes ago, -VS-WeebusRussus said:

Don’t mind him everyone who understood the frame and know basic movement tried to explain it to him but he don’t listen and says always the same 

You can not deter the truth.

[nslay]

13 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You haven’t been part of his numerous discussions, have you?

His 1 is garbage. Everybody goes on and on about all these different functions for it, but all it takes is a bullet to the head and all those features become useless.

Mesmer skin is the worst tank ability: it’s a charges based defense ability, in a horse shooter. There’s a reasons it’s only useless in Index, because everywhere else those charges get chewed Incredibly fast. And People say “oh just run away or use rolling guard to recast it”, no other tank frame has to run away to recast their tank ability, they either have the ability to recast without losing the defense or theirs safeguards in their kits to keep them safe once the tank ability drains. And the 100% damage reduction is pointless. There’s no benefit to facing off against level 20 bajillion enemies, So there’s no need for a defense ability for that.

Reave: requires Enthrall to perform the worst of all the one shots in the game. And enthrall spends 99% of its time as a useless damage pillars. Reave is trash. You’re literally better off taking any normal damage frame to kill enemies.

Danse Macabre:  very good Damage ability. If it wasn’t for Mesmer Skin actively preventing this ability from scaling it would be great.

And all this without going into his numerous anti synergies and contradictions within his kit. Revenant is a bad frame, quite possibly the worst. End of Story.

Ah yes, all the same lines... Notably, after being proven wrong (with videos, pictures, common sense), what, 5-6 times now? You're still doing this Mesmer Skin thing. Wow... just wow. Remember that time when you argued that 90% damage reduction was better than 100% damage reduction? Remember how other players and I (who actually play Revenant) tried to give you pointers on how to play him so that you wouldn't have the same complaints? Welp... Nothing has changed. At this point, this isn't merely misinformation on account of you being inexperience with Revenant. We are long past that. You're lying about Revenant. You yourself know that you are demonstrably wrong (and have been shown so) on almost everything you wrote up there.

Reave is one of the best one shots in the game. We've established this multiple times. You don't like it? Fine. Don't pretend that it's not effective when you know players have even done such craziness as complete 24 hour solo Kuva Survival with him.

My impression is that you play 10 minute missions where most abilities (from any frame) aren't actually needed for any practical reason (aside of maybe speed). Let alone Enthrall and Reave because these are the tools that both very effectively CC very challenging enemies (which you don't seem to play against) and also very efficiently kill that which is practically unkillable by many frames/weapons.

You like 10 minute Sortie level missions? I completely respect that. On the other hand, Revenant can do very long endurance missions that some people like to play. And there are a lot of frames that either can't do that or can't do it very easily. That completely aside, Revenant is a very simple frame for a beginner that requires no augments or special mods to do things like solo Mot Survival (Oh yeah, completely awful tanking ability). He's also a pretty general frame that is especially excellent for solo play and can do most missions and bosses all the way up to Sorties and Arbitrations.

By the way, for someone who claims to understand Revenant, you are one of the few (if not the only one) that thinks Danse Macabre is very good. It doesn't scale like the rest of his kit. It works great for Sortie level missions though! Yeah, that's totally not useful for endurance... Only the low level easy stuff that you seem to use as a benchmark.

13 hours ago, (XB1)LordZonut said:

Banshee sonar can stack enough times that you can kill enemies at levels up to about 9999 or so. Add rhino buffs and sonic fracture to remove armor plus Viral Slash damage build for a sniper and you can still kill some lvl 9999 when they have sonar stacks.

Revenant can do it by himself without any of those buffs or armor strip/viral/slash... and almost instantly.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

17 minutes ago, nslay said:

-lies-

I find it hilarious that you think repeating this stuff to me is going to magically change my mind. He’s a bad frame. reaching high levels is Something even other bad frames can do. I’ve seen screen shots of Vauban reaching level 300. So facing off against high level enemies isn’t this special thing only Revenant can do. Not to mention there’s no benefit to doing it anyways so it’s pretty much a redundant feat.

Also, Danse Macabre would actually scale better if Mesmer Skin didn’t prevent its scaling mechanic from working properly.

#ReworkRevenant

[nslay]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I find it hilarious that you think repeating this stuff to me is going to magically change my mind. He’s a bad frame. reaching high levels is Something even other bad frames can do. I’ve seen screen shots of Vauban reaching level 300. So facing off against high level enemies isn’t this special thing only Revenant can do. Not to mention there’s no benefit to doing it anyways so it’s pretty much a redundant feat.

Also, Danse Macabre would actually scale better if Mesmer Skin didn’t prevent its scaling mechanic from working properly.

#ReworkRevenant

Aside of maybe T4 Void, enemies don't do very much damage. If enemies did more damage, maybe Nyx's Mind Control and Revenant's Thralls could actually be useful to kill other enemies. But that doesn't seem to be the case. So explain to me why you think Revenant absorbing and returning the damage through Danse Macabre will scale any better? I'd be curious to know what would happen if you made a Revenant that relies on Adaptation/armor that uses the strange damage return feature of Danse Macabre. How well would this actually work? I don't think anyone has tried it (at least no one that posts here). I definitely agree that it's a strange feature to have in Danse Macabre when most players are just using Mesmer Skin. Anyway, I'd do it myself if I had Adaptation! It will drop some day...

I am not trying to change your mind about your dislike of Revenant or your criticism about Eidolon theme issues. What I do dispute with you are claims about how Revenant's abilities play out in the game. A lot of what you say is either not true or not actually a problem in practice... and many of us have explained why. Like for example, recasting Mesmer Skin drops your Mesmer Skin stacks... Is this actually a problem? No and for two reasons: 1) You can jump cast Mesmer Skin and you are not hit by anyone in practice (because enemies have bad aim, one of the main reasons why Mesmer Skin even works as well as it does!), 2) In long Endurance, you will benefit from Reave/Mesmer Skin/Enthrall synergy and never need to cast Mesmer Skin again anyway. Furthermore, if you're that worried about the brief moment of vulnerability, you can use Rolling Guard or Natural Talent. Even without knowing all the workarounds, I find it hard to complain about this... you trade a moment of vulnerability for god mode. What's the problem?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

12 minutes ago, nslay said:

Aside of maybe T4 Void, enemies don't do very much damage. If enemies did more damage, maybe Nyx's Mind Control and Revenant's Thralls could actually be useful to kill other enemies. But that doesn't seem to be the case. So explain to me why you think Revenant absorbing and returning the damage through Danse Macabre will scale any better?

It works for Octavias Mallet. It should work for Danse Macabre.

Shouldn’t need arbitration mods to make a tank ability reliable. Mesmer charges still get chewed through, and so far the only gameplay I’ve been where they aren’t is just the player spamming Reave. So you can’t say a tank ability is a good tank ability when your only evidence is of a player actively avoiding relying on it. Can’t really blame them tho. It’s a trash tank ability.

 

[nslay]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It works for Octavias Mallet. It should work for Danse Macabre.

Shouldn’t need arbitration mods to make a tank ability reliable. Mesmer charges still get chewed through, and so far the only gameplay I’ve been where they aren’t is just the player spamming Reave. So you can’t say a tank ability is a good tank ability when your only evidence is of a player actively avoiding relying on it. Can’t really blame them tho. It’s a trash tank ability.

 

Funny thing Gears, Mesmer Skin is already known to be reliable... how do we know this? Someone did a 24 hour Kuva Survival with him. You don't even need to be an expert player to make good use of Mesmer Skin like the crazy person who played for 24 hours. A newbie can bring Revenant into Mot and survive 20 minutes... when I was completing the Star Chart, Revenant got me through most of the T4 Void branch with very basic mods. There's really nothing wrong with Mesmer Skin in practice. Sure, I understand the impressions people have when they read the ability text... Oh, 20 Corpus/Grineer shooting at you? Must strip Mesmer Skin stacks like crazy! But this is not actually what happens in practice for a number of reasons we've already discussed.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

33 minutes ago, nslay said:

Funny thing Gears, Mesmer Skin is already known to be reliable... how do we know this? Someone did a 24 hour Kuva Survival with him. You don't even need to be an expert player to make good use of Mesmer Skin like the crazy person who played for 24 hours. A newbie can bring Revenant into Mot and survive 20 minutes... when I was completing the Star Chart, Revenant got me through most of the T4 Void branch with very basic mods. There's really nothing wrong with Mesmer Skin in practice. Sure, I understand the impressions people have when they read the ability text... Oh, 20 Corpus/Grineer shooting at you? Must strip Mesmer Skin stacks like crazy! But this is not actually what happens in practice for a number of reasons we've already discussed.

Nice dodging of the question. Well it wasn’t really a question. More of a general statement presenting information that you just simply ignored.

Edited September 29, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[nslay]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Nice dodging of the question. Well it wasn’t really a question. More of a general statement presenting information that you just simply ignored.

It's more like you're ignoring everyone else. You've completely misrepresented Mesmer Skin even when presented with so much evidence to the contrary (for the past year! gosh man!). If Mesmer Skin were as bad as you claim it was, it would not be possible for players to do 3 hour, 24 hour, etc... survivals. But we have video and picture evidence that players can do this. If Mesmer Skin were chipped away so easily by gun fire, Revenant would not be able to do Mot. But we have video and picture evidence of players using Revenant successfully in Mot. If Revenant can do Mot without his Mesmer Skin stacks stripped away so easily, it's very easy to imagine him able to survive against Corpus or Grineer without Mesmer Skin stacks being stripped away. We've also shared details with you of gameplay and undocumented features of Mesmer Skin that explain how/why it works as well as it does.

The reality is that Mesmer Skin works and works well enough to accomplish crazy long endurance missions (that is to say it works very well). Your ideas about Mesmer Skin problems are not real.