Stealth Mastery Rank bugged?

[unknow99]

Le 11/10/2019 à 01:03, Leyers_of_facade a dit :

Hmm, did it a few times just now, glaive banshee still works fine I think.

In the video below, I completed the last stage 3 times, first time shows a relatively bad run with several bad throws, second round works the best if you are a good thrower and.... 
the third one.... is just interesting

 

Also yes.. I am terrible bad decent with glaives I would like to think.

Good accuracy for the throws & nice build, but this also crearly showed how broken Stealth is nowadays...

• When you go down then jump back to the platform : this is because you know where the enemies are & how to bait them, this isn't testing your Stealth skill,
• When you aim at a lancer exactly where he is supposed to spawn : same thing, you know your test but it isn't really testing your Sneaking skill,
• etc..

DE, I know that Stealth need its 2.0 but you clearly missed the mark somewhere (their vision cone are wayyyy too big now & why did you kill the primary/secondary multiplier?!).

Please fix. No, please try the test with any melee expect throwing weapons, and realize that fixing is needed! :/

[vanaukas]

4 hours ago, unknow99 said:

Good accuracy for the throws & nice build, but this also crearly showed how broken Stealth is nowadays...

• When you go down then jump back to the platform : this is because you know where the enemies are & how to bait them, this isn't testing your Stealth skill,
• When you aim at a lancer exactly where he is supposed to spawn : same thing, you know your test but it isn't really testing your Sneaking skill,
• etc..

DE, I know that Stealth need its 2.0 but you clearly missed the mark somewhere (their vision cone are wayyyy too big now & why did you kill the primary/secondary multiplier?!).

Please fix. No, please try the test with any melee expect throwing weapons, and realize that fixing is needed! 😕

Exactly this. This test should test your skills, not your gear... 

[vanaukas]

Will we have a response today?

[36ONoScope]

I don't know how it was before I started playing but I recently did that MR9 trial. It took me a few attempts in the simaris simulation but I found a way to do them all quickly and safely - the third/last stage in even less than 30 seconds. If you feel stuck, I can record it for you.

Edited October 21, 2019 by 36ONoScope

[vanaukas]

2 hours ago, 36ONoScope said:

I don't know how it was before I started playing but I recently did that MR9 trial. It took me a few attempts in the simaris simulation but I found a way to do them all quickly and safely - the third/last stage in even less than 30 seconds. If you feel stuck, I can record it for you.

Record it for the fellow tenno... Im reaching mr 23 by now.

[36ONoScope]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb xHeretic:

Record it for the fellow tenno... Im reaching mr 23 by now.

Alright, give me until the weekend, though! 😉

I just reached MR9 so I'm pretty new to the game. Noticed them bullS#&$ spotting me way above their heads as well so patient hiding and studying their patrol routes was no good for me. Thus I'm taking a very aggressive approach in MR9 trial.

I will post the video here once I got around to taking it.

[BBAlpert]

The thing that frustrates me personally isn't even the fact that they can see from so far away, it's the way that their vision and behavior feels so inconsistent. I'm sure there's some amount of internal logic that I simply haven't mastered which would explain why a guard will sometimes stop in his tracks and deviate from his route. Or why a guard will sometimes be able to see me from across the level. Or why a guard will sometimes spot me through a wall.

But sometimes not.

This lack of predictability isn't as much of a problem in actual levels, but not being able to reliably get the same outcomes from the same actions makes the "You failed, try again tomorrow" so much more irritating.

And I do know about the Simaris practice simulations. That's actually why I'm posting about the inconsistency. I spent a long time working out a route in practice. When I found a route that worked, I tested it out 2 more times in practice to see if it was repeatable. It seemed solid enough. So I tried the actual exam, and one of the guards immediately deviated from his route in a way that made my planned (and tested) route impossible.

I know the test isn't impossible, but it's enough of a hassle for me to not want to engage with it. I'm probably not going to even bother with this Mastery Rank test until there's some kind of patch or hotfix (or even just some kind of recognition that it's an issue they're aware of).

For those curious, my route for the 3rd area was to immediately bullet jump off to the left side, before that guard turns toward the center. Once he was down, I hid behind a pillar and waited for the center guard and the righthand side guard to get about halfway down the center path (walking toward the 2nd area). I ran around behind them and hit them both with a channeled whip, then ran back up the righthand path to get the back-right guard. I then waited for the back left and back center guards to be facing away, ran up and killed the back center, and then finally the back left.

[(PSN)Grimfrost83]

On 2019-10-22 at 4:46 PM, BBAlpert said:

The thing that frustrates me personally isn't even the fact that they can see from so far away, it's the way that their vision and behavior feels so inconsistent. I'm sure there's some amount of internal logic that I simply haven't mastered which would explain why a guard will sometimes stop in his tracks and deviate from his route. Or why a guard will sometimes be able to see me from across the level. Or why a guard will sometimes spot me through a wall.

But sometimes not.

This lack of predictability isn't as much of a problem in actual levels, but not being able to reliably get the same outcomes from the same actions makes the "You failed, try again tomorrow" so much more irritating.

And I do know about the Simaris practice simulations. That's actually why I'm posting about the inconsistency. I spent a long time working out a route in practice. When I found a route that worked, I tested it out 2 more times in practice to see if it was repeatable. It seemed solid enough. So I tried the actual exam, and one of the guards immediately deviated from his route in a way that made my planned (and tested) route impossible.

I know the test isn't impossible, but it's enough of a hassle for me to not want to engage with it. I'm probably not going to even bother with this Mastery Rank test until there's some kind of patch or hotfix (or even just some kind of recognition that it's an issue they're aware of).

For those curious, my route for the 3rd area was to immediately bullet jump off to the left side, before that guard turns toward the center. Once he was down, I hid behind a pillar and waited for the center guard and the righthand side guard to get about halfway down the center path (walking toward the 2nd area). I ran around behind them and hit them both with a channeled whip, then ran back up the righthand path to get the back-right guard. I then waited for the back left and back center guards to be facing away, ran up and killed the back center, and then finally the back left.

When i did manage the test, i did similar thing on phase 3.
Tho was lucky, so the guy on top saw one body, then deviated from platform to check it out. Then me slide-attack 🙂


Maybe it´s just that. A guard deviate from his route if he spots a body, or he think he saw something(like you, sliding by)? 

Edit: I did do an aggressive approach to the test when cleared it. 
Low stance, slideattacks, not waiting so much behind pillars. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by (PS4)Grimfrost83

[vanaukas]

bug or intended behavior? 

[fr4gb4ll]

for testing it, i done the test 3 times just now: first run, a normal melee weapon (one that has a quick finisher is better than one whose animation takes too long), 2nd. run was with a gunblade (which sadly isn't silent anymore, so shooting them from afar is much harder nowadys - but it still works if one is careful) and 3rd. run was with a throwing melee.

for all 3 runs i used channeling when dispatching the enemies - this will remove their bodies at once and others won't get suspicious by spotting their dead comrades... though if they see them die, they still gets alerted and will spot you soon after (you might still get away if you are reacting fast and are not too near of them).

the 'default' way was the most difficult one of the 3 tries and required a good timing and a fast moving frame to perform... the 2nd. one was the easiest one IF one was far away from the enemies and killed them with one blast (i suggest using the redeemer with extended reach - yes, that helps with the range of the projectiles too)... also, try to stay halfway in cover and remember always being in crouched mode (never walk or run during the test whenever there are any enemies in sight) and use the channeling mode (which we sadly will lose soon with the update).

the 3rd. run, done with the glaive was easy enough when channeling the weapon - without it, timing is important (think ahead how long it takes for corpses to disolve and from how far enemies can see them). if the rest of the enemies gets suspicious, hide and wait until they resume their normal patrol route.

all in all, this test is challenging like it should and not bugged beyond the sometimes silly enemy corps-spotting behaviour (which is not only so in the test but normal gameplay too).

[vanaukas]

Forgive me if this is a mistake, but... @[DE]Bear, can you give some answer? This is the intended behavior of those test or is a bug? Sorry for tagging you but this thread is almost a month old without ANY response from DE, and almost everyday threads are beign made about this issue (and people desperate on region chat) and it would be pretty ncie if we, players who like to help, we can answer that simple question...

[(PSN)TealDragonReaper]

Currently stuck on MR 9, and I agree with everything in this thread. I've watched videos and tried to repeat their actions during practice. Sometimes, it barely works, but most of the time, weird behaviors start popping up in the AI. I know some of these have been mentioned before, but I want to list my complaints too.

1) enemies during the third phase can view you up on the platform before you can descend.

2) hiding on this platform can work sometimes, even at the very edge. But not consistently.

3) enemies can full on detect me through a solid wall

4) enemies can detect me and not give off the detected state. They will walk directly over to me as though they know my exact location. Sometimes they turn the corner of a pillar, sometimes they stop. This is usually followed by being detected after killing the next enemy, regardless of how it is done (see enemies looking through walls)

5) enemies can detect you even when you aren't a part of their pathing that would constitute a VISUAL range.

6) visual ranges vary wildly. Sometimes I've gotten away with not being spotted at 5 feet from an enemy that totally should have seen me.

7) enemies can see you on top of the pillars.

😎 dropping off the map has a chance to respawn you in what appears to be a semi random location. Sometimes its next to where you fell, sometimes it's across the map (at which point you're spotted because who expects that)

9) slide kills can work, but they have a chance to begin as a slide and end as an execution/stealth kill

10) its more than just your Mastery rank 9 tests that has these issues DE. Other stealth missions have odd behaviors as well.

11) give me my other stealth abilities and equipment, not just my melee. The test even starts out with a frontal assault is not always the best plan of action. What's more frontal assault then handing me only my sword and being like "Get in there and kill some people"?

 

I really like this game. I've sunk a lil money into even. But what I've sunk more of into it is my time. I refuse to believe that there is not an outcome that can resolve this issue. Many within the community have voiced issues with this test. It should not be a running gag. Rather than just complain, I want to make some suggestions.

A) If anyone fails a mastery rank more than X times, give them the rank.

B) stealth mastery rank missions can be repeated until completed or aborted. If aborted, 24 hours before the next test.

C) Cameras seem to be more reliable in predictable pathing and visual ranges. Change the enemy type.

Respond to individuals in this thread. Don't just let it drop to the wayside. Something has to be done about this.

[36ONoScope]

Am 22.10.2019 um 00:10 schrieb xHeretic:

Record it for the fellow tenno... Im reaching mr 23 by now.

Okay I took that video you requested. Sorry it took so long.

The only real problem of the entire stage 3 is the guy walking around the high ground pillar. If I ever get detected it's by that guy. That's why you need to be very mindful of his location and direction. See how I stop after killing the second enemy on the final stage to wait for him to turn around. If I had rushed there, he would have spotted me! You can check preferably with enemy radar but you can also peek around the pillar.

And while recording I found a nice glitch you can use to cheese a bit. Pick Hydroid, suicide dive the pillar enemy with leap attack so a tentacle (Hydroid passive) spawns near them. It will actually persist throughout the transition between attempts so it will take that enemy out right at the beginning of the next attempt. I don't show this in the video, though.

[vanaukas]

35 minutes ago, (PS4)TealDragonReaper said:

B) stealth mastery rank missions can be repeated until completed or aborted. If aborted, 24 hours before the next test.

This is a very nice idea and probably would help new people to got deeper into the required mechanics while saving a lot of loading screens.

[vanaukas]

3 minutes ago, 36ONoScope said:

Okay I took that video you requested. Sorry it took so long.

The only real problem of the entire stage 3 is the guy walking around the high ground pillar. If I ever get detected it's by that guy. That's why you need to be very mindful of his location and direction. See how I stop after killing the second enemy on the final stage to wait for him to turn around. If I had rushed there, he would have spotted me! You can check preferably with enemy radar but you can also peek around the pillar.

And while recording I found a nice glitch you can use to cheese a bit. Pick Hydroid, suicide dive the pillar enemy with leap attack so a tentacle (Hydroid passive) spawns near them. It will actually persist throughout the transition between attempts so it will take that enemy out right at the beginning of the next attempt. I don't show this in the video, though.

Thank you fellow tenno, I hope this helps the people here to reach mr 9 while we get an answer from DE 🙂

[AngelWednesday]

Has anyone successfully done the MR19 test yet under the new stealth conditions?

I've given it a few practice goes with wisp and the redeemer but I keep failing.

I've even been spotted on the back of the start area.

And that's on a pillar!!

 

[vanaukas]

1 hour ago, AngelWednesday said:

Has anyone successfully done the MR19 test yet under the new stealth conditions?

I've given it a few practice goes with wisp and the redeemer but I keep failing.

I've even been spotted on the back of the start area.

And that's on a pillar!!

 

Skitiaji or wisp make it pretty easy, I klnwo it doesnt have to be like this but is a solution until we get an offical response on this

[AngelWednesday]

Thankyou hun.

I'll give that a go with the Banshee/Redeemer method when I get home. 😁

[36ONoScope]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb AngelWednesday:

Has anyone successfully done the MR19 test yet under the new stealth conditions?

I've given it a few practice goes with wisp and the redeemer but I keep failing.

I've even been spotted on the back of the start area.

And that's on a pillar!!

 

Ah unfortunately I'm only MR11. 😞 So I cannot help you with this. Perhaps in a month or two but let's hope the issues don't persist for that long!

[AngelWednesday]

It's the thought that counts. :D

[(PSN)TealDragonReaper]

Finally beat the buggy system at its own game. I'm gonna put a link to a video that helped with pathing, limited down time, and had a few helpful tips. 

A couple of sidenotes about the video.

Not everyone will have the broken war, but it uses a similar animation as other single handed swords. Heat sword, skana, and nikana seem like other good viable options.

I failed one of my three attempts due to timing. Practice, practice, practice. Until you can do it reliably like 3 times in a row, practice. That being said, I was still able to do the pathing after that reset from detection.

After killing the two central walkers, I made my way to the pillar in the top right to take that guy out. If you miss the window of opportunity, wait for his 3rd pass after. Hide in the dead center of the top right pillar (if oriented the way the test lays out the starting point) and crouch and wait. Watch top, watch far, and still your blade until you're ready to drive it deep in some grineer armor. Double back, wait for next pass of top guy, jump up, make him regret coming into work the day you took this test, and mop up the final soon-to-be biohazardous blood smear that is the final guy.

Hope this helps. And stay strong fellow Tenno. This test is aggravating to say the least. Try to find the most recent video in the future since DE likes changing this mission frequently it seems.

[AngelWednesday]

I beat MR19 in the end.

I used Banshee, the Skitiaji and......

The Imperitor Arch Gun!!

Activate and then take out each of the guards in the correct order and timing so they don't see any bodies.

Then run in and slash the orbs to rescue the prisoner.

Yes it's a huge cheat but with the way stealth is working and it's frustrations it's the only do able way for me.

I have seen it done with a Wisp where the person simply slashed the orbs while jumping around and didn't hit a single guard.

I hope that helps for the MR19 people who are struggling.

[vanaukas]

Well, this thread is more than 1 month old and we still don't have any resopnse from DE, so i'll stop saying it's a bug, from now it's just the intended way of the devs for those MR test.

[Guest]

If enemy detecting you through walls and/or having random detection range/being respawned randomly when you fall off the map is intended, then it's a not-so-kind-at-all way to keep most players from advancing or just blatant trolling.

I really hope this isn't intended, for it'd take unfairness to a whole new level.

I, for my part, prefere to assume it's a bug that calls for an urgent bugfix.

[teatris]

I couldnt do it then I saw this thread. And its indeed impossible (for me) to do it without using a thrown weapon (with maxed reach)

ps. I just want to notice how illogical it is to be able to use cyphers on the hack test but not stealth abilities in a stealth test?
All the mastery test I have done so far its always the same story. Its either ridiculously easy or it takes you a whole day/week + multiple tutorial to complete it. mastery test should test your skill gradually. not incoherently spattered.