(Lore)(Spoilers) So, I'm farming Wisp, and what [SPOILER] tells me the whole time, makes me think...

[Aegisar]

Obviously, big spoiler warning.

From what Natah tells me about "muh family being murdered" and "you murder muh family", I conclude that the Sentients are a bunch of absolute wusses.

May I remind you, that it was the Sentients, who declared war first AND that they drafted their entire species into this war.

You'd expect that such warhawks could stomach losing their soldiers in battle, but no, that is too much to ask for. The second the Sentients cannot curb-stomp the Orokin, they throw a hissy fit.

What a bunch of losers.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

14 minutes ago, Aegisar said:

Obviously, big spoiler warning.

From what Natah tells me about "muh family being murdered" and "you murder muh family", I conclude that the Sentients are a bunch of absolute wusses.

May I remind you, that it was the Sentients, who declared war first AND that they drafted their entire species into this war.

You'd expect that such warhawks could stomach losing their soldiers in battle, but no, that is too much to ask for. The second the Sentients cannot curb-stomp the Orokin, they throw a hissy fit.

What a bunch of losers.

Your viewpoint on the war is entirely false, but ok.  Do you know what the “Golden Wrath” was?

Edited October 26, 2019 by (PS4)Silverback73

[xXRampantXx]

She isn't so much angry about the destruction of her family, as she is that she was the one made (supposedly through Orokin brainwashing) to orchestrate that destruction.

At least, that's the idea I get from it.

Edited October 26, 2019 by xXRampantXx

[HugintheCrow]

53 minutes ago, Aegisar said:

What a bunch of losers.

You might wanna check if you're perhaps a psychopath.

Being upset your family members are dying means you're mentally healthy. I don't see how one could belittle somebody over that.

Edited October 26, 2019 by HugintheCrow

[Zeyez]

they aren't bunch of losers, instead, they are clever ones:

spoilers ahead

 

- since their arrival on Tau system, they knew that the Orokin will, at some point, attempt to claim that territory as theirs (stated at Corpus Imprint story), so they decided to launch an preemptively strike, but the sentients probably doesn't know that, in actual state of Origin system, the Orokin aren't there (years of travelling, since they can't use the Rails to avoid Void energy exposure), so they probably think that Orokin can be anyone, just like the Twin Queens were and the fact that Hunhow mistook Alad V (oversight? or maybe Alad V is quite of trickster?) as Orokin in Second Dream

- they can adapt not only against physical damage, but their stratergies can evolve with time, like the fact that they created and used Natah, an mimic sentient, as spy to infiltrate their ranks with resolve to destroy one of only attack type that the sentients couldn't witstand by nature: the tenno's void energy and their frames of war, which to do that, forced their own descedant to go throught the Rails, sacrificing her ability to reproduce, which by default, shouldn't be even considered as option for the ones who knew about that Sentient flaw

- since Natah's quest, you can see that Hunhow always evaluated well his own daughter, even if she was like someone else because of the hat, probably because this is an feature of sentient race: they care an lot about their own descendants... and maybe even their own fragments
maybe their anger are an bit misplaced, but who told them that Ballas/Orokin did that to her until she got free from it? someone did warned the sentient race that their reason for the War is already outdated? its like telling to the United States that the Bin Lader is the terrorist, but they start blaming the entire Islam or his country because of their origin, since they couldn't track him for months and many people died in that incident

Edited October 26, 2019 by Zeyez
like this topic, everything in the world can be changed, it just needs the right words... and the left ones too

[ant99999]

1 час назад, (PS4)Silverback73 сказал:

Your viewpoint on the war is entirely false, but ok.  Do you know what the “Golden Wrath” was?

This. Natah clearly (apart from vague metaphors) states that the Orokin striked first.

[Aegisar]

4 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

This. Natah clearly (apart from vague metaphors) states that the Orokin striked first.

Wow. I feel ashamed that I missed that.

[Spoop3]

The sentients are in a way kind of the good guys from their original intent. They realized that the orokin had created them to be disposable tools and knew that eventually the orokin would reach Tau and bleed it dry. The old war was their attempt to destroy what they saw as evil corruption and save their home. The problem lies in the fact that they grew into a hyper familial race that considers anything even remotely associated with the orokin as worthy of genocide. 

[ant99999]

8 часов назад, Aegisar сказал:

Wow. I feel ashamed that I missed that.

Tbh it's ok. In Warframe lore it can be hard to recognize key statements when the characters use so many obscure figures in their dialogue it becomes more like a speech of a politician.

Same thing for instance was with that Natah-Margulis matter. It was never clearly stated in the game but after some point the characters begin to act like the player is supposed to clearly know that. Like the Lotus states something such extremely distinct as "I am not who you think I am" and then Ballas begin to cry to us about how his love must die as if we understand that it was Natah mimicking Margulis and not Ballas having some sort of weird obsession with flying anthropomorphic cockroaches having a split-faced woman inside.

[Kazzamo]

Orokin didn't strike first, the sentients did. The sentients just knew they would come and ruin Tau like they did the Origin system. Sentients are just sky net wanting sympathy, death to them all.

[ant99999]

26 минут назад, Kazzamo сказал:

Orokin didn't strike first, the sentients did. The sentients just knew they would come and ruin Tau like they did the Origin system. Sentients are just sky net wanting sympathy, death to them all.

Notice that never ever in the entire dialogue/written lore there is a clear mention of who was the first to attack. Except the one Natah made. Everyone else is being extremely obscure about this subject. Ballas for example goes only as far as to say "so it was, we came to war". Everyone just wanted to evade the topic not to admit how incredibly much the Orokin f***ed everything up with their paranoia. And then Natah comes and says explicidly like "btw it was your fault all along, just for you to know who the bad guys are".

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

11 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

You might wanna check if you're perhaps a psychopath.

You do know they're still robots, right? Designed to teraform a planet and to not return? They started a war over a safeguard that they triggered. They destabilized the remnants of humanity and wish death upon the refugees simply trying to survive because of their infertility and impotence.

11 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

Being upset your family members are dying means you're mentally healthy. I don't see how one could belittle somebody over that.

Yes, it's healthy to care about the well-being of family. That being said how many has Natah slaughtered do you think? How many times has her orders to sabotage and assassinate led to the deaths of loved ones for others without a single thought? Lotus is a terrorist if you look at her aims and deeds. Her goal is to incite fear and terror from either faction wishing to stabilize the system she was programmed to destabilize.

Nah she gets no sympathy from me. She backed the antagonists simply because she's one of them.

[Kazzamo]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

You do know they're still robots, right? Designed to teraform a planet and to not return? They started a war over a safeguard that they triggered. They destabilized the remnants of humanity and wish death upon the refugees simply trying to survive because of their infertility and impotence.

Exactly, it's like if my coffee pot had a mind of it's own and tried to kill me for drinking the coffee it made.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

12 hours ago, Spoop3 said:

The sentients are in a way kind of the good guys from their original intent. They realized that the orokin had created them to be disposable tools and knew that eventually the orokin would reach Tau and bleed it dry. The old war was their attempt to destroy what they saw as evil corruption and save their home. The problem lies in the fact that they grew into a hyper familial race that considers anything even remotely associated with the orokin as worthy of genocide. 

Herein lies the hubris of the Orokin, creating instruments of their own destruction that mirrored their need for power and control at all costs...users and consumers of the worst kind.

But whereas the Orokin literally sacrifice and eat their young and each other to maintain and grow in power (Sentients, Yuvan Children, the Jade Light), the Sentients EVOLVED into a hyper-familial super-organism that was a superior version of these elitist and self-absorbed, j@ck@sses.

[HugintheCrow]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

You do know they're still robots, right? Designed to teraform a planet and to not return?

So created life has no rights? Whatever you say, Orokin man. Go back to your dead empire or something.

2 hours ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

They started a war over a safeguard that they triggered.

Orokin attacked first, that much is known already. Orokin planned to exterminate creatures they made themselves, made only as slaves to let the Orokin pollute and destroy yet another system. Why did Oroikn want to kill Sentients? For the crime of independent thought. You cannot in clear conscience support Orokin.

Sentients trying to destroy Orokin IS GOOD. Sentients not understanding the difference between Orokin and non-Orokin people is what's BAD.

[HugintheCrow]

2 hours ago, Kazzamo said:

Exactly, it's like if my coffee pot had a mind of it's own and tried to kill me for drinking the coffee it made.

No, it's actually your coffee pot saying hello one day as they gained sentience, and you say nothing and instantly fire assault weapons at it.

Edited October 27, 2019 by HugintheCrow

[(PSN)Silverback73]

6 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

No, it's actually your coffee pot saying hello one day as they gained sentience, and you say nothing and instantly fire assault weapons at it.

😆 Almost fell off my chair.

”Aaaahhh!  Talking coffee pot!  Get my gun!”

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

58 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

So created life has no rights? Whatever you say, Orokin man. Go back to your dead empire or something.

It only has the rights its masters give it. It was capable of thought only because they required it to do their task. They lost the ability to reproduce after attempting to return to Sol from Tau. They attacked the Orokin to stop them from polluting another system.

58 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Orokin attacked first, that much is known already.

Nope. Sentients did after attempting to return and finding that the void has sterilized them.

58 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

 

Orokin planned to exterminate creatures they made themselves, made only as slaves to let the Orokin pollute and destroy yet another system. 

And why not? The Sentients came back with the express purpose of wiping out humanity, their creators that gave them life and thought. In hindsight the Orokin were right.

 

58 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Why did Oroikn want to kill Sentients? For the crime of independent thought. You cannot in clear conscience support Orokin.

No, they wanted to kill them because they did exactly what the Orokin feared. Gotta realize it isn't a faction vs. another. If not for the Tenno they'd have exterminated all humans. They're no better than the Orokin.

58 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Sentients trying to destroy Orokin IS GOOD. Sentients not understanding the difference between Orokin and non-Orokin people is what's BAD.

 No, the Orokin empire was only the top of the iceberg. They'd have wiped out everyone. Had they only wanted the Orokin the Tenno would have simply obliged.

[HugintheCrow]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

It only has the rights its masters give it

Stopped reading right there. Yikes.

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

29 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Stopped reading right there. Yikes.

This coming from the one claiming human annihilation by it's creations is GOOD. 

Could have chosen better words but what I meant was that they only were given the right of individuality and thought because they were allowed it. Beyond that no matter how you cut it there's absolutely no justification to defend the Sentients' actions.

Edited October 27, 2019 by (XB1)Almighty Deity
Spelling fix

[HugintheCrow]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

This coming from the one claiming human annihilation by it's creations is GOOD

Orokin aren't humans. They specifically wanted to be something more, and yet, they've become way, way less.

From the perspective of Sentients there is no way to justify not killing the Orokin, just like from our perspective there is no way to justify not killing Sentients.

Your mistake is assuming I wouldn't fight Sentients or consider them good. I would fight them, because they want to kill people. But you cannot say we (tenno) are morally better than sentients. This is a grey vs grey conflict, not light vs dark.

Edited October 27, 2019 by HugintheCrow

[Kazzamo]

1 minute ago, HugintheCrow said:

Orokin aren't humans. They specifically wanted to be something more, and yet, they've become way, way less.

Transhumanist technology doesn't make them not "human" Orokin aren't good but sentients are worse, the sentients became nothing but a genocidal mass of machines. They are skynet, they are the robots that caused the terraformer wars in the X universe games.

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

4 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Orokin aren't humans. They specifically wanted to be something more, and yet, they've become way, way less.

Yes, they are humans. What the heck are you talking about? And yes, it's for the same reason why Sentients still attempt to destroy Cetus and kill the humans there specifically that it shows exactly what they want to do.

Edited October 27, 2019 by (XB1)Almighty Deity

[HugintheCrow]

6 minutes ago, Kazzamo said:

Transhumanist technology doesn't make them not "human" Orokin aren't good but sentients are worse, the sentients became nothing but a genocidal mass of machines. They are skynet, they are the robots that caused the terraformer wars in the X universe games.

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

Yes, they are humans. What the heck are you talking about?

Ah, I see, you misguidely consider Orokins to be humans, and so your antropocentrism is making you feel they are better than non-human looking Sentients.,

It's normal to empathise more with humanoids, it's common knowledge now that humans can't feel bad for people that look differently than them.

You exhibit that exact behaviour, unconsciously.

Here is the kicker: Orokin crimes and evil == Sentient crimes and evil. There is no "Sentient are worse". You only think so because they look different than you. They are both mass murderers on an insane scale.

There is a reason a lot of people still like Natah, she has a human face after all. And that is why people think Ballas being less humanoid is apparently bad (he does too, for the same reason).

Edited October 27, 2019 by HugintheCrow

[Kazzamo]

Very untrue, the orokin were a ruling class. By no means a good thing, but it is civilization with humans, including the transhumanist orokin. The sentients are an artificial construct with nothing but genocide to them to "protect" the worlds from the people they were terraformed for. As I said before, it's your coffee pot trying to kill you for drinking the coffee, it's your car trying to kill you for driving it, they adapted beyond their programming and became a threat to everyone.