Kuva Weapon Variable Testing

[Midas]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DFqQaxNwoOuzB4vuMIgnqVvVRK1K9fh1BWTwkJB7v0E/edit#gid=0

Reddit Post Link: 

 

 

In the above link, my clan (Guns N Roses), my alliance, reddit, and now the warframe community (forums) are invited!

I am working on a raw data comparison of all Kuva weapons!

We'll need about 500 weapons i'd say to get decent and accurate results.

Document Key: 28 weapons as of 11/3/2019 12:31 PM EST

Weapon: The type of Kuva Weapon.

Progenitor/Rank: The rank of your Kuva Lich when you killed it and the warframe you spawned it with.

IPS: The Impact Puncture Slash IN THAT ORDER of your weapon (This is most likely static and non
changing).

%BonusElement: The Elemental Bonus percentage your Kuva Lich had that gave you
the weapon when you killed him/her.

In Game Name: Your name if we need to ask you questions.

Thanks if you have questions just message me ingame

- Midas

Edited November 3, 2019 by Midas

[White_Matter]

Nice idea. I'm reserving this spot to come back later. 

[Midas]

5 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Nice idea. I'm reserving this spot to come back later. 

Thank Tenno!

[TinFoilMkIV]

Seeing some interesting oddities with the damage on weapons that have built in elements. Looking forward to seeing what the data shows.

[Midas]

49 minutes ago, TinFoilMkIV said:

Seeing some interesting oddities with the damage on weapons that have built in elements. Looking forward to seeing what the data shows.

ask your friends as well if you'd like to upload their weapons. The more weapons the larger the variables, we have 4 quartakks that all seem to be around 22-27 ele damage.

[TinFoilMkIV]

While I'm sure this would be discovered soon enough from the data gathering. If you guys didn't already know. It turns out the inherent bonuses on a kuva weapon count as base damage. Which kinda negates the one upside that the impact bonus might have had... Oh well. Interesting nonetheless.

[Midas]

1 hour ago, TinFoilMkIV said:

While I'm sure this would be discovered soon enough from the data gathering. If you guys didn't already know. It turns out the inherent bonuses on a kuva weapon count as base damage. Which kinda negates the one upside that the impact bonus might have had... Oh well. Interesting nonetheless.

Essentially you are saying that weapon % on the Kuva lich increases the overall damage of the weapon (IPS)? Or does it affect IPS and the Element on the weapon?

Just need to be 100% sure, we'll continue gathering data for physical proof but that would give me something to focus on.

EDIT: Elements may affect how much damage is applied to the weapon and how much is distributed.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Midas

[RX-3DR]

Link in case linking image is still busted : https://imgur.com/a/K98LKOO

Bottom left stats is what is displayed when equipped, both modding interface and main arsenal. Bottom right stats is what is displayed when selecting to equip.

Some extra math.

Spoiler

Total damage of 468. Default stat total damage of 366. 468 / 366 = 127.8%

Impact damage of 391.9 / 260 = 151%

Blast damage of 76.1 / 106 = 72%

For modding : 

Crash Course +120% Impact :  391.9 > 862.2 | 862.2 / 391.9 = 2.2 = 100% + 120%.

Hellfire +90% Heat : 421.2 Heat | 421.2 / 468 = 90%.

Serration +165% Damage : 391.9 > 1038 / 76.1 > 201.7 | Self explanatory +165%

Nothing fishy so whatever stat you get should be base in the case of Impact. 

I don't even.

[InFlames]

I got 3 weapons for you hope it helps!

 

Kohm Toxin

 

Dual Stubbas Toxin

 

Quartakk Impact

[Midas]

Thanks @TinFoilMkIV Noticing a few correlations with higher damage via higher % weapon element on Kuva lichs, it seems the damage is distributed into the ips and elements randomly (checkout the weapons I put in for their total damage). Anything element above 50% on your Kuva Lich is a big deal (have yet to 60%ers).

Edited November 3, 2019 by Midas

[Midas]

19 minutes ago, Mr.Pava said:

I got 3 weapons for you hope it helps!

 

Kohm Toxin

 

Dual Stubbas Toxin

 

Quartakk Impact

Your Stubbas display a quartakk in the picture, figured this out after I added the numbers up with the 55% toxin on the lich lol

[TinFoilMkIV]

1 hour ago, Midas said:

Essentially you are saying that weapon % on the Kuva lich increases the overall damage of the weapon (IPS)? Or does it affect IPS and the Element on the weapon?

Just need to be 100% sure, we'll continue gathering data for physical proof but that would give me something to focus on.

EDIT: Elements may affect how much damage is applied to the weapon and how much is distributed.

The weapon % for elemental types is counted as base damage. Much like how weapons that have built in elemental damage is considered base damage when calculating elemental mods. As opposed to the IPS mods that are calculated against just that damage type within the base damage. The big thing is that they aren't treated as "modded" damage. It's not quite clear how this interacts with the weapons "natural" base damage. Just saying that it's treated as a base damage type.

I tested by adding an elemental mod into my cold bonus Kuva Ogris and calculating how much was added versus the base stats. The added damage lined up perfectly with the total base damage including the inherent cold bonus.

Edited November 3, 2019 by TinFoilMkIV

[Midas]

1 minute ago, TinFoilMkIV said:

The weapon % for elemental types is counted as base damage. Much like how weapons that have built in elemental damage is considered base damage when calculating elemental mods. As opposed to the IPS mods that are calculated against just that damage type within the base damage. The big thing is that they aren't treated as "modded" damage. It's not quite clear how this interacts with the weapons "natural" base damage. Just saying that it's treated as a base damage type.

Yep yep, read a bit above I failed to @ you correctly haha, the distribution seems to be between element and IPS randomly

Edited November 3, 2019 by Midas

[TinFoilMkIV]

2 minutes ago, Midas said:

Yep yep, read a bit above I failed to @ you correctly haha, the distribution seems to be between element and IPS randomly

Yea I caught that after I posted, heh. There's definitely some statistical strangeness going on with some of the listed weapons. Not sure if it's RNG or a yet to be discovered calculation for certain bonuses. Spose we'll see when we get more data. And possibly some hotfixes.

[TinFoilMkIV]

@Midas After looking over some numbers a bit. I think it would be good to add an entry for the raw codex stats for each weapon so we can more easily compare them to the rolled versions in game. While it's not certain that the codex is entirely accurate right now, just due to the nature of the weapons and how recent the patch was. I think the data could be helpful to have side by side.

I can certainly add those in if that's alright. Since I don't have any other weapons myself currently.

Edited November 3, 2019 by TinFoilMkIV

[Midas]

3 minutes ago, TinFoilMkIV said:

@Midas After looking over some numbers a bit. I think it would be good to add an entry for the raw codex stats for each weapon so we can more easily compare them to the rolled versions in game. While it's not certain that the codex is entirely accurate right now, just due to the nature of the weapons and how recent the patch was. I think the data could be helpful to have side by side.

I can certainly add those in if that's alright. Since I don't have any other weapons myself currently.

Go for it! Doing My college major studies, recruiting ingame for my clan while I do it, and this raw data gathering on multiple discords and sites I appreciate your help!

Edited November 3, 2019 by Midas

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

After looking at the collected data a bit, it seems that kuva weapons with base innate elements have part of this base innate element "stolen" by the weapon specific bonus. The formula seems to be (IPS) x (bonus %) + (bonus %) x (innate element)/(1 + bonus %) is what your weapon specific bonus damage will be, and (innate element)/(1 + bonus %) will be your new innate elemental damage. Little bit of number fudging after, but this is likely related what was mentioned in the patch notes.
 

Quote

Weapon stats will now be reflected in a slightly more rounded way. Innate Damage is added before anything on the weapon happens - boosting the weapons base Damage and then renormalizes the Damage percentages. This makes Elemental Mods stack in a way you would expect.

 

[Midas]

40 minutes ago, (XB1)TheWayOfWisdom said:

After looking at the collected data a bit, it seems that kuva weapons with base innate elements have part of this base innate element "stolen" by the weapon specific bonus. The formula seems to be (IPS) x (bonus %) + (bonus %) x (innate element)/(1 + bonus %) is what your weapon specific bonus damage will be, and (innate element)/(1 + bonus %) will be your new innate elemental damage. Little bit of number fudging after, but this is likely related what was mentioned in the patch notes.
 

 

So I assume a higher % from the lich is better? So if a weapon had blast it would “steal” a percentage of it into toxin if my lich was progenerated by Saryn?

Edited November 4, 2019 by Midas

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

6 minutes ago, Midas said:

So I assume a higher % from the lich is better?

That's a given, its just that innate elemental weapons get less of a boost as compared to pure IPS weapons

[Midas]

I'd conclude that we have learned a lot from this data, 60% is the highest elemental damage it seems (unless someone can top that).

A Higher elemental damage = a higher base damage for your weapon.

I'd need more samples to test if warframes determine a higher %. We have 1 60%er on there from wisp at rank 5.

[TinFoilMkIV]

2 hours ago, Midas said:

So I assume a higher % from the lich is better? So if a weapon had blast it would “steal” a percentage of it into toxin if my lich was progenerated by Saryn?

Most definitely based on the data we got already. It's not quite the full percentage of the bonus, but it's pretty close. And since it all counts as base damage. High percentages are really good.

[Limpo015]

hace 15 horas, Midas dijo:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DFqQaxNwoOuzB4vuMIgnqVvVRK1K9fh1BWTwkJB7v0E/edit#gid=0

Reddit Post Link: 

 

 

In the above link, my clan (Guns N Roses), my alliance, reddit, and now the warframe community (forums) are invited!

I am working on a raw data comparison of all Kuva weapons!

We'll need about 500 weapons i'd say to get decent and accurate results.

Document Key: 28 weapons as of 11/3/2019 12:31 PM EST

Weapon: The type of Kuva Weapon.

Progenitor/Rank: The rank of your Kuva Lich when you killed it and the warframe you spawned it with.

IPS: The Impact Puncture Slash IN THAT ORDER of your weapon (This is most likely static and non
changing).

%BonusElement: The Elemental Bonus percentage your Kuva Lich had that gave you
the weapon when you killed him/her.

In Game Name: Your name if we need to ask you questions.

Thanks if you have questions just message me ingame

- Midas

Hi, i was add two weapons more Seer and Drakgon, In addition a new column with Lich

[Ikserdok]

idk, I will post mine here

Spoiler

Kuva Karak

Spoiler

Kuva Kohm

 

for both, from left side it is just basic stats of these weapons, on right side are stats with its additional bonus dmg

idk how else or what I can add more to this, I have same nickname in game

this calculating looks weird to me, do you know anything about calculations in this?

from my unexperienced it looks like basic stats on kohm + 29% of bonus to this looks for 125% of damage in total with bonus

but with karak basic stats + 25% bonus looks like around 121% of damage in total with bonus

so it looks also as higher bonus % to weapon you have then higher total dmg in overall you have in this weapon after all calculations....but Im not sure in 100% as didnt get yet any weapon with high bonus damage to compare with greater certainty

[Educated_Beast]

The one thing I've been wondering is if you get a radiation bonus (for example), is it now possible to have radiation, corrosive, and say cold all on one weapon? 

Or when I add the toxin for corrosive, will it just go to radiation bonus?

[pauli133]

1 minute ago, Educated_Beast said:

The one thing I've been wondering is if you get a radiation bonus (for example), is it now possible to have radiation, corrosive, and say cold all on one weapon? 

Or when I add the toxin for corrosive, will it just go to radiation bonus?

It looks like it should be acting like any weapon with innate compound elemental damage - the rad should stay separate, allowing for rad and heat (or elec) to coexist.