Suggestion to solve issue of players not killing liches - Denial parazon mods.

[0_The_F00l]

There are a lot of topics and posts with complaints of players leaving their liches and (technically) making things more annoying and diffucult for other players trying to get their own lich to spawn. 

I too believe the implementation is lacking in some forethought. 

I have a suggestion to this. 

I propose a "denial" parazon mod. 

It would be a default mod on all parazons or recieved after completing the war within. 

Purpose: equipped on the parazon and activated on mercy finisher (could be first, second or third slot) 

When that stage of the finisher is reached the judgement is denied. 

It's neither win nor loss. 

Tenno only gains 1 murmur point, the lich reduces in rage slightly but does not level up. 

This takes away the "but he will level up" 

Or "I don't have the mods" issues that players may have. 

 

This, I absolutely believe, is a more lenient option allowing both the owner of the lich as well as other players to find a middle path. 

There will always be those that would be classified as griefers, but now they can't hide behind the above excuses. 

Edited November 7, 2019 by 0_The_F00l
Typos

[Fluttershy93]

First of seeing they reverted the whole ''everyone getting murmur progress'' even when the owner of the lich does the parazon kill, be it a fail or not. There is honestly little reason for people to go pubs with lich runs. And i have no issues with people not killing their lich either, because comeon, if you can't handle a little lich pestering you abit why are you even going public for your lich hunting? You go in fully knowing what you can meet, with the current changes they are just pushing the lich system more and more towards being a solo thing.

This whole ''oh put in a system so people will play the way i want them to play'' is getting real dull. If this bothered me as much as it is doing with you, know what i do? Just go solo, or do it with my clan/friends. The owner of the lich is in full control of what he/she feels like doing, as much as you are in control of going into a pub or solo lich mission.

[0_The_F00l]

5 minutes ago, Fluttershy93 said:

First of seeing they reverted the whole ''everyone getting murmur progress'' even when the owner of the lich does the parazon kill, be it a fail or not. There is honestly little reason for people to go pubs with lich runs. And i have no issues with people not killing their lich either, because comeon, if you can't handle a little lich pestering you abit why are you even going public for your lich hunting? You go in fully knowing what you can meet, with the current changes they are just pushing the lich system more and more towards being a solo thing.

This whole ''oh put in a system so people will play the way i want them to play'' is getting real dull. If this bothered me as much as it is doing with you, know what i do? Just go solo, or do it with my clan/friends. The owner of the lich is in full control of what he/she feels like doing, as much as you are in control of going into a pub or solo lich mission.

Not everybody is like you are they? 

I manage solo just fine, but if I have a thought to make it less frustrating for others I would like to suggest it. 

You are free to play solo in a co op game if you so wish to, you are free to ignore what I am suggesting as it will not affect you at all. 

And I disagree that the owner of the lich is in "full control " they are not in control of the liches spawning, that fact itself makes your statement incorrect. 

[Lost_Cartographer]

Got a better idea:  Just don't have them kill you on a failed attempt and level up.

There should be something to show for taking a lich to higher ranks.  Right now our rewards are a gun, maybe an ephemera and... our own stuff.  It's a @!&%ing joke.  

The system definitely needs to be built upon.  A longer "campaign," or incentive to drag one out at least.  Still the ability to quickly raise lich ranks if that's what Oneself wants, but DE probably shouldn't force rising levels of enemies on the player, especially as a form of punishment.  This should have always been a risk-reward thing.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[0_The_F00l]

21 minutes ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Got a better idea:  Just don't have them kill you on a failed attempt and level up.

There should be something to show for taking a lich to higher ranks.  Right now our rewards are a gun, maybe an ephemera and... our own stuff.  It's a @!&%ing joke.  

The system definitely needs to be built upon.  A longer "campaign," or incentive to drag one out at least.  Still the ability to quickly raise lich ranks if that's what Oneself wants, but DE probably shouldn't force rising levels of enemies on the player, especially as a form of punishment.  This should have always been a risk-reward thing.

how else would they level up though? please do suggest.

[Lost_Cartographer]

11 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

how else would they level up though? please do suggest.

Brainstorming it, even if it isn't my job to (DE's got a team, I'm just me with this forum.)  So far I keep going back to incorporating elements of X-com 2's escalating campaign into the lich system, with lich ranks being akin to the avatar project, but that works for a longer lich campaign.  The problem is coming up with a way to rank them up quickly that doesn't feel, I don't know... counter-intuitive or silly?

Also, there should be a good reason to WANT a higher rank of lich besides flexing.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[Kalarual]

22 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

 

 

Quote

First of seeing they reverted the whole ''everyone getting murmur progress'' even when the owner of the lich does the parazon kill, be it a fail or not. There is honestly little reason for people to go pubs with lich runs. And i have no issues with people not killing their lich either, because comeon, if you can't handle a little lich pestering you abit why are you even going public for your lich hunting? You go in fully knowing what you can meet, with the current changes they are just pushing the lich system more and more towards being a solo thing.

This whole ''oh put in a system so people will play the way i want them to play'' is getting real dull. If this bothered me as much as it is doing with you, know what i do? Just go solo, or do it with my clan/friends. The owner of the lich is in full control of what he/she feels like doing, as much as you are in control of going into a pub or solo lich mission.

 

 

- Fluttershy93

Can we drop this whole "I play how I want" attitude? 

I get it. You want to play how you like. But this is a multiplayer game. You're playing with other people. There's certain things to do when playing with others in a public game, such as:

-Not being cancerous

-Not making the run more annoying than it needs to be, we want to get out of there just as much as you do, just because YOU don't find it annoying doesn't mean everyone else is fine with it.

-This is an online game. "I play how I want" goes against that. Work as a TEAM. If you want to play how you want, play how you want in a single player game, quit just telling others to do it solo just because YOU want to be a jerk. Whenever I go in a mission I'm constantly thinking about what I can do to make the run faster and better for everyone. I go nova to defenses to make it faster/easier, Limbo to mobile defense, Gara/equinox(duality) to index, etc. If I want to level my guns I at least bring one max gun so im not being useless, yet I always see people bringing in like underleveled EVERYTHING at like rank 10 mastery, so it's not modded either. runs take forever. This is okay to you?

 

Yea, some of you will be pissed at what I said, don't care.

I want this current system to improve so everyone wants to do it. sure, my idea to quickly fix it for now was bad, but it at least clears the dang lich off the map so we can continue to play normally.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Kalarual
Site quoted wrong person.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, Kalarual said:

Can we drop this whole "I play how I want" attitude? 

I get it. You want to play how you like. But this is a multiplayer game. You're playing with other people. There's certain things to do when playing with others in a public game, such as:

-Not being cancerous

-Not making the run more annoying than it needs to be, we want to get out of there just as much as you do, just because YOU don't find it annoying doesn't mean everyone else is fine with it.

-This is an online game. "I play how I want" goes against that. Work as a TEAM. If you want to play how you want, play how you want in a single player game, quit just telling others to do it solo just because YOU want to be a jerk. Whenever I go in a mission I'm constantly thinking about what I can do to make the run faster and better for everyone. I go nova to defenses to make it faster/easier, Limbo to mobile defense, Gara/equinox(duality) to index, etc. If I want to level my guns I at least bring one max gun so im not being useless, yet I always see people bringing in like underleveled EVERYTHING at like rank 10 mastery, so it's not modded either. runs take forever. This is okay to you?

 

Yea, some of you will be pissed at what I said, don't care.

I want this current system to improve so everyone wants to do it. sure, my idea to quickly fix it for now was bad, but it at least clears the dang lich off the map so we can continue to play normally.

I think you quoted the wrong person there buddy 🙂

 

[0_The_F00l]

5 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Brainstorming it, even if it isn't my job to (DE's got a team, I'm just me with this forum.)  So far I keep going back to incorporating elements of X-com 2's escalating campaign into the lich system, with lich ranks being akin to the avatar project, but that works for a longer lich campaign.  The problem is coming up with a way to rank them up quickly that doesn't feel, I don't know... counter-intuitive or silly?

Also, there should be a good reason to WANT a higher rank of lich besides flexing.

Sounds interesting, but the avatar project had a persistent timer. Most Warframe players dont do well with timers. 

Or will it be based on mission completion? 

I do feel the current lich system is just a piece of the empyrean project provided to placate the masses. And there are additional mechanics that will be revealed later. (I want my own galleon) 

[Lost_Cartographer]

6 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Sounds interesting, but the avatar project had a persistent timer. Most Warframe players dont do well with timers. 

Or will it be based on mission completion? 

I do feel the current lich system is just a piece of the empyrean project provided to placate the masses. And there are additional mechanics that will be revealed later. (I want my own galleon) 

I figure mission completion would be the timer here, as though each lich mission completed (or failed) counted as a "turn."  There would be surprise missions that could accelerate the timer, or dial it back or provide other rewards/setbacks that might last set number of "turns" in the lich campaign, and they're only up for one turn, so multiple may trigger at a time, and so you could contract out whichever syndicate is paired with the mission to handle these surprise missions for you provided you have the necessary amount of rep to pay them off (and making syndicates somewhat relevant again...)

But yeah, without Empyrean, I can't say how deep DE's system really goes, since what we have right now is very obviously just enough to work.  Any ideas we throw out there could very well run counter to what Empyrean will offer.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[Salzstangl]

Since it is possible to farm murmur faster with a lich alive, I dont see a way to solve this except asking nicely in the chat

Even if I used this mechanics multiple times in public games (I always ask if someone wants me to kill it in chat), I dont really see it necessary to increase the spawn-rate of thralls, since they are not much stronger than normal enemies.

[0_The_F00l]

9 minutes ago, Salzstangl said:

Since it is possible to farm murmur faster with a lich alive, I dont see a way to solve this except asking nicely in the chat

Even if I used this mechanics multiple times in public games (I always ask if someone wants me to kill it in chat), I dont really see it necessary to increase the spawn-rate of thralls, since they are not much stronger than normal enemies.

honestly the thrall spawn rates have been inconsistent for lich staying alive or being killed.

have gone through missions that spawn thralls like candy out of a mysterious van but also gone though missions where they spawn only 2 throughout.

Also had an occasion in an interception , where the lich stayed alive , the owner didnt say anything or try to kill him. and we failed the mission cause one location could never be captured. wasted all that murmur cause failing the mission means you get zilch.

[Salzstangl]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb 0_The_F00l:

honestly the thrall spawn rates have been inconsistent for lich staying alive or being killed.

have gone through missions that spawn thralls like candy out of a mysterious van but also gone though missions where they spawn only 2 throughout.

Also had an occasion in an interception , where the lich stayed alive , the owner didnt say anything or try to kill him. and we failed the mission cause one location could never be captured. wasted all that murmur cause failing the mission means you get zilch.

 

Interception can be tricky at times and wrong decisions can risk the success for the whole team. Thats also the case if you play normal interception.

[EinheriarJudith]

9 hours ago, Salzstangl said:

Since it is possible to farm murmur faster with a lich alive, I dont see a way to solve this except asking nicely in the chat

Even if I used this mechanics multiple times in public games (I always ask if someone wants me to kill it in chat), I dont really see it necessary to increase the spawn-rate of thralls, since they are not much stronger than normal enemies.

this alone is enough reason to make a revision to the system so it is not possible. people making public matches longer just so they can avoid other parts of the system is ridiculous.