If You Think A Melee Weapon Is Op, Then Your Prob A Noob

[Saenol]

That is by virtue of the ranged mechanic being able to engage the target immediately, where as melee needs to close the distance.

 

No argument here.

 

And this is my point. Melee would need to be capable of some seriously absurd stuff, even in the context of a game like Warframe, to be able to match gunplay in all-round combat power.

 

In what game genre are you making that claim?

 

All of them.

 

 Games that follow the Halo model all have melee attacks that are 1-2 hit kills. In RPG melee tends to have MUCH higher melee DPS to compensate for the fact the ranged classes can engage immediately

 

I don't play many games that follow the Halo model, and the RPGs I am most familiar with all take into account that ranged weapons are generally more lethal than melee, especially when they feature modern firearms.

 

are we playing the same game....obviously not on the same difficulty...

You literally cant be 360* aware of your surrounding while your "meleeing" because you have to face the opponent for you to "melee" them.

 

Identical content is evidently more difficult for some than others.

 

Enemy Sense and/or Enemy Radar will let you know if there is something behind you, heavy weapons have an enormous attack arc, and you should not be standing still anyway.

 

Whenever possible, I'm orbiting enemies while charging up for the attack, and immediately continue doing so once the attack has been delivered. I rarely stand still in one position, or one facing.

 

If you need to, you can also decouple melee attack direction from the view direction by unchecking "Camera controls melee dir" in the control options. Doing this, you can be looking directly behind you as you melee something directly in front of you, or you can move the view side to side to cover all 360 degrees without letting the target leave your view for more than a split second at a time.

 

So yeah, you are wrong.

 

Please make a video of you making it to 40 min in a infested survival without being knocked back or staggerd while you melee them.

I would love to see this "situationional awareness" when the entire screen is filled with lvl 120+ infested all trying to zerg you.

 

I could do this, but I'd have to be invisible.

 

Anyway, never being knocked down or staggered while doing reckless things is not a claim I ever made. I said that you can avoid much of this, because you can; enough to be effective in melee when you need to be. That's it.

 

I made no claim that rushing into hordes of enemies and meleeing them to the exclusion of better tactics was viable.

 

Situational awareness is important. Knowing not to bite off more than you can chew is important. Moving around and thinning out the opposition before meleeing what would otherwise be a bullet sponge is important.

 

Melee is still viable, still useful, and you can melee without spending most of the game on the floor if you are sensible.

 

Please sir teach me how to play

 

I'd love to, but what makes you think you can learn to play when you can't even comprehend what I write?

Edited September 29, 2013 by Saenol

[LazyKnight]

I don't play many games that follow the Halo model, and the RPGs I am most familiar with all take into account that ranged weapons are generally more lethal than melee, especially when they feature modern firearms.

If you just look at the Ninja genre: If melee is not usable and the preeminent weapon class in the ninja genre it turns into a Cod Clone because of the availability of superior guns. The problem DE did was they went from having a melee focused game in U6 to a to lets give players flame throwers and rocket launchers in U8.

 

I honestly mean they should toss melee out of the game at this point since their focused has move so far into Cod clone territory. Now that they are in Cod shooter territory the melee is a RELIC of closed beta and u6-u7 and is no longer a supported feature along with the block mechanic that does nothing.

 

There are 42 melee weapon in game and they out number any of the other two weapon types. Melee SHOULD be the dominate weapon in this game consider it has the greatest representation. Only if you combine both primary and secondary weapon does the weight shift in the favor of guns.

Edited September 29, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Neo3602]

I personally think that melee weapons should do more significantly more damage than guns because you have to get close to do actually do damage where when you are using guns you don't have to it should be a trade off more damage for more risk of getting killed or less damage and less risk of getting killed.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Neo3602

[MageMeat]

I don't think melee should be competitive with guns. That's pushing it, even for Warframe.

I believe that melee in all games should have a high risk-reward factor.

For example, it's stupid to bring a knife to a gun fight, but if you can sneak up on him and stab him in the neck, then retaliation is highly unlikely, as they are choking on their own blood, losing blood from their brain rapidly and retaining de-oxygenated blood.

So it's supposed to be risky but effective when done right.

[Saenol]

I honestly mean they should toss melee out of the game at this point since their focused has move so far into Cod clone territory. Now that they are in Cod shooter territory the melee is a RELIC of closed beta and u6-u7 and is no longer a supported feature along with the block mechanic that does nothing.

 

I don't favor the removal of melee for the same reason I don't favor making melee on par (overall) with gun play. It just doesn't make sense to me why you wouldn't have such a fallback if there is ever a time it could be useful. Firearms have dominated real warfare for centuries, but to this day melee (armed and unarmed) combat is still taught, and still taken seriously. People still kill each other with knives and sticks and rocks.

 

Obviously, Warframe isn't a sim, but melee still has a niche in Warframe, and you don't need equality to have balance.

 

On a more personal/abstract note, I find melee really fun and use it whenever I can without jeopardizing my chances to succeed. Indeed, melee often helps me succeed.

 

The block mechanic is crap, even with the new block focused mods. Every time I try to use it I come to the conclusion that using that stamina to move out of the way or rush forward and smack my attacker would have been the better move.

 

I personally think that melee weapons should do more significantly more damage than guns because you have to get close to do actually do damage where when you are using guns you don't have to it should be a trade off more damage for more risk of getting killed or less damage and less risk of getting killed.

 

Well, per hit the decent melee weapons already compare well with most primaries and secondaries.

 

I believe that melee in all games should have a high risk-reward factor.

For example, it's stupid to bring a knife to a gun fight, but if you can sneak up on him and stab him in the neck, then retaliation is highly unlikely, as they are choking on their own blood, losing blood from their brain rapidly and retaining de-oxygenated blood.

So it's supposed to be risky but effective when done right.

 

I agree.

 

Melee's utility in stealth could certainly see a buff without undermining the general superiority of gunplay in open, ranged, combat.

[Phunkiecrux]

Melee must weaker than guns, because guns use ammo but melee use nothing

Melee should be on par or stronger than guns because guns let you shoot from behind cover, away from enemies, and with some even out of attacking range. 

Melee you have to get UP CLOSE with the enemy, putting yourself at higher risk of getting downed/killed. So many enemies can stagger, stun, and knock you down that melee at it's current point is lesser than using guns. 

THIS is why melee should be on equals, if not stronger than guns. 

The risk should have rewards, not put you at a clear disadvantage. 

[SanderF]

I still don't get why ppl say galatine is OP, I tried it yesterday, it's too damn slow(even with both charge speed mods), I'll keep my orthos prime.

[Aggh]

I still don't get why ppl say galatine is OP, I tried it yesterday, it's too damn slow(even with both charge speed mods), I'll keep my orthos prime.

Can orthos prime do this?

 

 

Also, unless you're able to hold down your melee key for exactly 1/4 of a second every time, the practical difference between the charge speed of the orthos prime and the galatine is negligible.  Especially when the galatine has 5x the critical chance of the orthos and higher crit damage on top of having double the charge damage.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Aggh

[cary2010haha]

yes,

if you are a nekros and use desacrate

or

have ammo mutation mods/ ammo gear

or

you know...

pick it up off the ground 

 

also all of those warframe abilities willmake your ranged weapons just more lethal as well (like 100% stagger with most shotguns)....I dont really see your point. 

desacrate recover very less ammo,

and ammo mutation mods not everyone have it and you lose a damage mod slot

ammo gear, every hour you can just get 60 ammo gear, and money , res.....

[Roltair]

Can orthos prime do this?

 

 

Also, unless you're able to hold down your melee key for exactly 1/4 of a second every time, the practical difference between the charge speed of the orthos prime and the galatine is negligible.  Especially when the galatine has 5x the critical chance of the orthos and higher crit damage on top of having double the charge damage.

When are we going to be fighting a hoard of Phorids?

Until we a given a reason to fight a bunch of higher level things on a regular basis I think the speed of Orthos Prime makes it slightly more viable for quicker kills of moderately leveled enemies.

[Aggh]

When are we going to be fighting a hoard of Phorids?

Until we a given a reason to fight a bunch of higher level things on a regular basis I think the speed of Orthos Prime makes it slightly more viable for quicker kills of moderately leveled enemies.

When is orthos prime going to be deal anywhere near as much damage as the galatine?  Never.

[BerelHawdos]

Tenno , you have power to stun , blind, confuse all your enemies and make them can't get hit, knockdown, staggered, and poisoned on you , but can you reg. enough ammo by using tenno power?

 

Team Ammo Restore?

[Vsuchinoko]

Better worded, the Galaltine is more powerful than the current melee weapons, and they should have balanced all of the melee weapons to fit together then bring out the Galaltine now. The Galaltine is a standard for maybe how melee weapons SHOULD be at this state, but they still aren't. DE promised to fix and refurbrish melee for awhile now but it just hasn't come. It seems like they just pushed out the Galaltine instead (also, Design Council choice).

 

Melee weapons are not OP. Far from it! They've been underpowered for a grossly long time and DE has made the promise to make them better. It's just that the Galaltine is too powerful in comparison to the current melee set to make sense. They should've updated melee overall, not bring out the updated standard to melee weapons, the Galatane.

[Phoenix86]

We finally get a single melee weapon that is a viable (still weaker) alternative to ranged weapons and still there are people that want it nerfed.

Doesn't matter that  95% of all the ranged weapons still out-dps the Galatine when equally modded.

 

It's like saying we have a sword that can compete with rocket launchers, it's fine.

[Bakim0n0]

All this raging about nerfing melee aside... after all the time I have spent in this game I would STILL take a kestral or kogake / dual ethers over a damage oriented melee weapon.

Melee is just a poor choice to dish out high end damage because you have to get in close. You can do a lot of things to negate that damage but when you're being swarmed by high levels and heavies it's kinda irrlelevant... CC becomes exponentially better than dishing out raw damage.

[Bakim0n0]

Can orthos prime do this?

 

 

Also, unless you're able to hold down your melee key for exactly 1/4 of a second every time, the practical difference between the charge speed of the orthos prime and the galatine is negligible.  Especially when the galatine has 5x the critical chance of the orthos and higher crit damage on top of having double the charge damage.

The Irony is with those three players with the weapons I did see... they could have done that before Phorrid even got close to them.

[Beas7ie]

Melee must weaker than guns, because guns use ammo but melee use nothing

 

But at the same time you can hit things far away with guns but with melee you have to expose yourself and get right up in the bad guys faces to attack them

[Ryjeon]

Warframe is still a young game and in it's open beta phase of development. Therefore it behooves the designers to introduce gamechangers such as the Galantine to see how it performs in the prevailing meta. All weapons which significantly deviate from the preceding arsenal of weapons are in a sense experiments which serve to inform and augment the direction of the game going forward. We as consenting beta testers and supporters are the vehicle for providing that data.

 

The beauty of the online supported F2P model is that the game is not a static product. It is constantly evolving and responding to us, the players' participation. In light of this situation all bring up valid points as to the place of Galantine and other melee weapons in the various objective pursuits which are present within the game.

 

As for my opinion, I believe the Galantine is a step in the right direction towards balancing melee's effectiveness potential vs ranged weapons, though it definitely outclasses all other melee weapons. I think the bonus crit chance on charge attacks is the primary offending element which sets it above alternative weapons which have lower base charge damage but attack much faster and more fluidly. Were such a bonus to charge crit chance added to other weapons they would be more in line with Galantine's power.

[fatpig84]

Don't forget elementals in 2.0 requires critical hits to proc their DOTs or special effects.

I expect an across the board buff in critical rates for all weapons barring special weapon cases like Acrid throwing knives etc.

[LazyKnight]

Don't forget elementals in 2.0 requires critical hits to proc their DOTs or special effects.

I expect an across the board buff in critical rates for all weapons barring special weapon cases like Acrid throwing knives etc.

 

Live stream 14 at, 16:25: Scott said "They are going to look at every mod, every weapons, and every NPC in game to give them at least some amount of a balance pass".

 

They are doing a entire balance pass of the entire game. They are also changing how all elemental damage works along with how NPC receive it.

[Fundance]

Melee must weaker than guns, because guns use ammo but melee use nothing

Says who? Melee requires you to get into melee range. Con for con.

[TheBrok3n]

Melee must weaker than guns, because guns use ammo but melee use nothing

 

Your joking right? How about stamina? TBH a gunshot wound to the chest is almost less likely to stop you dead than a sword opening you from clavicle to navel. 

 

Warframe is still a young game and in it's open beta phase of development. Therefore it behooves the designers to introduce gamechangers such as the Galantine to see how it performs in the prevailing meta. All weapons which significantly deviate from the preceding arsenal of weapons are in a sense experiments which serve to inform and augment the direction of the game going forward. We as consenting beta testers and supporters are the vehicle for providing that data.

 

The beauty of the online supported F2P model is that the game is not a static product. It is constantly evolving and responding to us, the players' participation. In light of this situation all bring up valid points as to the place of Galantine and other melee weapons in the various objective pursuits which are present within the game.

 

As for my opinion, I believe the Galantine is a step in the right direction towards balancing melee's effectiveness potential vs ranged weapons, though it definitely outclasses all other melee weapons. I think the bonus crit chance on charge attacks is the primary offending element which sets it above alternative weapons which have lower base charge damage but attack much faster and more fluidly. Were such a bonus to charge crit chance added to other weapons they would be more in line with Galantine's power.

 

I totally agree. Warframe is obviously far from perfect and the melee mechanic is still being smoothed out.

 

Melee play should be a high risk high reward option. As it is now there is little advantage to play melee and that makes the game imbalanced against melee users. Even a stealth execute does not instance kill enemies. IMO melee should be relevant even at lvl 100 and above. Everyone talks about MP, Sonar, Roar, Chaos when dealing with >100 mobs but no one talks about Contagion or Invis and Smoke screen in offensive play. Contagion even rates as one of the least popular skills along with Silence and Psychic Bolts. The Galatine is a step in the right direction and it only seems op because no other melee can match up, not because it is a game breaking DPS monster like THAT gun or THAT OTHER gun

[ForumSmurf]

Melee must weaker than guns, because guns use ammo but melee use nothing

both have trade offs. Gun uses ammo. melee has no range. The harder monsters get the more risky going into melee range is. Eventually monters will be so strong that being hit by one might take half your hp.

[Boomstick720]

Man how could anyone possibly see a post with "if you think x, then you are a *insult*" and think this is a bad idea.

 

On topic though, I agree OP.  Its nice to have a weapon that actually give you another option to guns.