You'll be able to issue commands to other players in your Railjack (We will need a kick button for rogue crew)

[Jarriaga]

1 minute ago, Aggh said:

I wish I lived in the magical christmas land where all people are decent enough to not consider doing that for the fun of it.

Easily fixed with a kick button.

My ship, my rules.

Want your rules? Build your own ship.

[Aggh]

Just now, Jarriaga said:

Easily fixed with a kick button.

My ship, my rules.

Want your rules? Build your own ship.

DE has pretty much always steered away from any kind of kick function in warframe.  I'd be really surprised if they implemented one.

[XzWasPzX]

hace 3 minutos, Jarriaga dijo:

If that's the hill you want to die on then be my guest. You said it yourself: It's people's nature. For those that are not civil, there's punishment so they can at least pretend to play along out of their own interest.

A kick crew button serves all. Douchebags get to be corrected for their behavior or not play.

How can I be sure you wont kick me just because you dont want my warframe aboard, a Zephyr for example? Tell me, come on... Or because you dont like my colours combination. Or my nickname. Come on...

[Jarriaga]

Just now, Aggh said:

DE has pretty much always steered away from any kind of kick function in warframe.  I'd be really surprised if they implemented one.

They'll need one here. They said that you won't be able to use AI crew when playing with other players, and the game mode will be difficult enough on its own due to multiple simultaneous tasks.

No time to waste on people who just want to play Shawzin in the middle of a deck fire.

[StinkyPygmy]

7 minutes ago, Sziklamester said:

True and agree with you on this but the trolling potential is high there unless they will add a kick option to punish that behavior but once they add kicking options then they should add to the regular missions aswell which means troll kicks will be a thing. I appreciate your mentality on this but the human nature is well different by person. Many will agree to do things for a common goal but many will just see how could spoil your game. For me in this point not interesting because I was not hyped on this at all because I prefer this game mechanics on different games which actually soloable and space fight. If you are old enough you may know the Freespace and some recent space simulator games where you basically plays alone and can focus on one thing so you do not need to do the dirty roles. 

I personally not interested in this update because I catched by the base game modes and that's all. I do appreciate their effort to try to make some coop because in a cooperation game the ideal would be if players could do play together but this game was spoiled with the start by not forcing players to work as a team so basically 4 room and in each room 1 person plays. 

This update is a different milestone and it will shown if their effort are worth to make cooperation better or the design fails by their flaws. I bet it will be in the middle way. 

If you invite me to your ship I accept your rules because your ship and your rules like normally in real life. If you trust peoples it is fine but I am sure it is not for random matches so it will be a bad idea to join/invite randoms. Just my opinion.

Thats fair. And the kick option etc wouldn't be a counter measure for players like you, because you are willing to be honest and upfront about your conditions. If someone joins my crew and straight up says "hey, i'd rather not do job x," Thats fine. I'd even be happy to suggest a compromise that as long as they are willing to occasionally take on that roll when its essential because something went wrong and whoever was doing it before is tied up, thats fine by me.

You're being reasonable and willing to negotiate and know your limits. Thats great and refreshing. But hey, as you said yourself, you don't feel like the content is really for you, so of course your gonna be hesitant to jump in.

Edited December 6, 2019 by StinkyPygmy

[Sziklamester]

Just now, Aggh said:

DE has pretty much always steered away from any kind of kick function in warframe.  I'd be really surprised if they implemented one.

Probably they won't add kick feature because that can be abused. Also with the cooperation and real teamwork involved the toxicity is increasing a bit because in team games there is always someone what you can bash if you fail. This game mode would work with a premade team which really knows each other and agree to do all the jobs for the goal. Also not bash each other if they did all the job and despise that the mission failed.

[Jarriaga]

2 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

How can I be sure you wont kick me just because you dont want my warframe aboard, a Zephyr for example? Tell me, come on... Or because you dont like my colours combination. Or my nickname. Come on...

I already answered that: That's where I get to do my part so my crew does not want to leave because of my behavior. It's a two way street.

Cooperation. I don't want douchebags playing with me, so I make sure not to act like one. I'll have to behave so YOU don't choose to leave me.

Alternative option: Build your own ship and NEVER worry about a douchebag captain other than yourself.

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Jarriaga

[XzWasPzX]

hace 1 minuto, Jarriaga dijo:

I already answered that: That's where I get to do my part so my crew does not want to leave because of my behavior. It's a two way street.

Cooperation. I don't want douchebags playing with me, so I make sure not to act like one. I'll have to behave so YOU don't choose to leave me.

Alternative option: Build your own ship and NEVER worry about a douchebag captain other than yourself.

 

Take this, from what I ve read of you here, i dont want to be part of your crew, never, and If i see you coming into my ship because of ramdom matchmacking I ll kick you. 

See? I can abuse of that power. 

[Jarriaga]

1 minute ago, XzWasPzX said:

Take this, from what I ve read of you here, i dont want to be part of your crew, never, and If i see you coming into my ship because of ramdom matchmacking I ll kick you. 

See? I can abuse of that power. 

Sounds like you're doing us both a favor.

[Aldain]

17 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

What if i can stay there and be a pain in the ass for that captain?

Then you're no better than they are.

[Sziklamester]

12 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Thats fair. And the kick option etc wouldn't be a counter measure for players like you, because you are willing to be honest and upfront about your conditions. If someone joins my crew and straight up says "hey, i'd rather not do job x," Thats fine. I'd even be happy to suggest a compromise that as long as they are willing to occasionally take on that roll when its essential because something went wrong and whoever was doing it before is tied up, thats fine by me.

You're being reasonable and willing to negotiate and know your limits. Thats great and refreshing. But hey, as you said yourself, you don;t feel like the content is really for you, so of course your gonna be hesitant to jump in.

True and it is fine but I am afraid this could causes more toxicity not because me or you but every game where teamwork was added or a must have feature then those games died fast. Except some where the community knew each other and knew their limits. Team games toxic by nature because it is very dependant on the person. If you trash with peoples they will refuse to do the job if everyone doing the job but fails there will be a lot person whom cannot handle it. I personally a competitive person and I know I am not a good captain because I want always win and the lose is not the liked word in my dictionary. That's my part but there are also many player out ther most of them playing solo who have the same issues and they wanted to play this content alone partly because of it.

I am willing to help if I have that mood because sometimes I cannot control my inner competitive nature and sadly bashed some person in other games some times with real reasons other times when I failed. I know this about me and partly this is the reason why I do not consider to play this content but honestly it is just looks boring. 

From developer perspective I understand they want to forge the community and actually wish real cooperation which is good, but the flaws and the habits of the devs preventing them to understand long before them many devs tried to do the same and in high percent they failed. The human nature is not tamable so you can only work with those whom you know and actually wish to coop.

I rather play the captain role with npcs and just sit there and shot ships and focusing on the fun part of this instead of managing cannons, engines, reactors, repair and dishwashing roles. 🙂

 

Ps: Sorry for the grammar.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Sziklamester

[XzWasPzX]

Justo ahora, Jarriaga dijo:

Sounds like you're doing us both a favor.

Exposing this issue? Nope, a favor to the whole community, I hope the devs think a bit about this. This souldnt be possible, but it is. Issue commands to other players... Not a good idea. 

[StinkyPygmy]

1 minute ago, XzWasPzX said:

Take this, from what I ve read of you here, i dont want to be part of your crew, never, and If i see you coming into my ship because of ramdom matchmacking I ll kick you. 

See? I can abuse of that power. 

Your circular logic and mental gymnastics is hurting my head...

The system by its nature is a two way street and thus deterrs both sides from being toxic, if they are toxic then they get punished for it on both sides. Therefore, only a small amount of people will act toxic regardless, meaning they're the minority.... meaning no one plays with them.... meaning they hurt themselves. I have no idea how i can explain this in any other way that makes sense to you.

[Jarriaga]

5 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

Exposing this issue? Nope, a favor to the whole community, I hope the devs think a bit about this. This souldnt be possible, but it is. Issue commands to other players... Not a good idea. 

You're doing us both a favor by kicking me out right away. I have no need to stay where I'm obviously not wanted and I have no desire to play with a douchebag Captain I'd leave on my own anyway.

So thank you for kicking me out on the spot rather than make me waste my time. Someone else will take me, or I'll just host with my ship.

Self-correcting problem.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Jarriaga

[ryu-hayabusa1]

3 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

Take this, from what I ve read of you here, i dont want to be part of your crew, never, and If i see you coming into my ship because of ramdom matchmacking I ll kick you. 

See? I can abuse of that power. 

Maybe , if they added a report system, similar to LOL.like,  if you get reported, 3 out of 5 games for example you get banned from boarding any ship, for a while. Stupid, I know but better than a kick option. 

Besides, I haven't met toxic players that much, in all my year's playing warframe. My issue is, not toxicity, but competence. 

[Aggh]

6 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Your circular logic and mental gymnastics is hurting my head...

The system by its nature is a two way street and thus deterrs both sides from being toxic, if they are toxic then they get punished for it on both sides. Therefore, only a small amount of people will act toxic regardless, meaning they're the minority.... meaning no one plays with them.... meaning they hurt themselves. I have no idea how i can explain this in any other way that makes sense to you.

This is an incredibly optimistic point of view to hold.  I'm not sure I've ever seen any kind of kicking system work out to this kind of paradigm.

[XzWasPzX]

Justo ahora, ryu-hayabusa1 dijo:

Maybe , if they added a report system, similar to LOL.like,  if you get reported, 3 out of 5 games for example you get banned from boarding any ship, for a while. Stupid, I know but better than a kick option. 

Besides, I haven't met toxic players that much, in all my year's playing warframe. My issue is, not toxicity, but competence. 

Im not usually the person that sees this kind of possible failures, but this time i can see them. Thats not good i think... Your idea could be a solution, but would not fix the current game session, would not prevent trolling in that moment, and that could lead to a failure in the mission for the whole crew. 

[Jarriaga]

1 minute ago, Aggh said:

This is an incredibly optimistic point of view to hold.  I'm not sure I've ever seen any kind of kicking system work out to this kind of paradigm.

You can't use AI when hosting other players. You'll be completely on your own making things unnecessarily hard for yourself if you don't behave as a Captain and your crew leaves you.

[StinkyPygmy]

5 minutes ago, Aggh said:

This is an incredibly optimistic point of view to hold.  I'm not sure I've ever seen any kind of kicking system work out to this kind of paradigm.

It's not optimistic, its just logic. By its nature, abusing the kick button hurts the whole squad as much as it hurts someone trolling.

I've seen it work in siege for instance. People very rarely abuse the kick button because then you end up down a person for the rest of a match, thus hurting yourself. By the same token, acting toxic can get you kicked. Ive played many matches where the entire team might be mad at eachother and STILL no one gets kicked, purely by virtue of it not being beneficial. Of course some people will still be toxic, but hey, they won't last long.

The overall majority of people will not be toxic. So for everyone in that minority of players being clowns, they'll find very little success in that endeavour.

Like some else mentioned earlier: If i get kicked for a dumb reason, so be it. Its a blessing because I can quickly move on and play with people that want me there.

Edited December 6, 2019 by StinkyPygmy

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

You'll be completely on your own making things unnecessarily hard for yourself if you don't behave as a Captain and your crew leaves you.

The one concern I can see is having players that are both new and clueless being active but unintentional hindrances, especially the ones who are insanely oblivious.

If there is one thing I have run into in Warframe, it is utterly oblivious people who have the situational awareness of a rock.

I do expect most people will be accommodating however, and I also expect (and hope) that things won't be so pixel-perfect where one mistake blows the entire Railjack up.

[XzWasPzX]

Justo ahora, StinkyPygmy dijo:

IT's not optimistic, its just logic. By its nature, abusing the kick button hurts the whole squad as much as it hurts someone trolling.

I've seen it work in siege for instance. People very rarely abuse the kick button because then you end up down a person for the rest of a match, thus hurting yourself. By the same token, acting toxic can get you kicked. Ive played many matches where the entire team might be mad at eachother and STILL no one gets kicked, purely by virtue of it not being beneficial. Of course some people will still be toxic, but hey, they wont last long.

Murdering people hurts the murdered one and even you, your own soul if you believe in that, but that doesnt stop the murderer, right? It just happens, and the game mode should prevent this from happening. Things happen, prevents the fact, simply that. You cant trust the people on behave the right way...

[ryu-hayabusa1]

8 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

Im not usually the person that sees this kind of possible failures, but this time i can see them. Thats not good i think... Your idea could be a solution, but would not fix the current game session, would not prevent trolling in that moment, and that could lead to a failure in the mission for the whole crew. 

Will, until the "command" skill gets added, which, is basically you having an AI crew, we'll  have to wait and see how it plays out, to give an educated judgment. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by ryu-hayabusa1

[Jarriaga]

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

The one concern I can see is having players that are both new and clueless being active but unintentional hindrances, especially the ones who are insanely oblivious.

If there is one thing I have run into in Warframe, it is utterly oblivious people who have the situational awareness of a rock.

I do expect most people will be accommodating however, and I also expect (and hope) that things won't be so pixel-perfect where one mistake blows the entire Railjack up.

In that scenario, it would be on me as a Captain to be more understanding of them being new at this. I'll be new at this myself.

Indeed, some room for recovery would ease things a lot.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Jarriaga

[StinkyPygmy]

7 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

Murdering people hurts the murdered one and even you, your own soul if you believe in that, but that doesnt stop the murderer, right? It just happens, and the game mode should prevent this from happening. Things happen, prevents the fact, simply that. You cant trust the people on behave the right way...

Thats not an equal comparison. So completely moot. Not to mention all the points you refuse to acknowledge or address. I don't even know where to begin with explaining how thats a horrible analogy. I will say this though: Why do you think laws and prisons exist?

But thats fine. You don't seem to be reading all of what is being said, so I guess we will have to just agree to disagree. Just going around in circles.

Edited December 6, 2019 by StinkyPygmy

[Aggh]

6 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

It's not optimistic, its just logic. By its nature, abusing the kick button hurts the whole squad as much as it hurts someone trolling.

I've seen it work in siege for instance. People very rarely abuse the kick button because then you end up down a person for the rest of a match, thus hurting yourself. By the same token, acting toxic can get you kicked. Ive played many matches where the entire team might be mad at eachother and STILL no one gets kicked, purely by virtue of it not being beneficial. Of course some people will still be toxic, but hey, they won't last long.

The overall majority of people will not be toxic. So for everyone in that minority of players being clowns, they'll find very little success in that endeavour.

Like some else mentioned earlier: If i get kicked for a dumb reason, so be it. Its a blessing because I can quickly move on and play with people that want me there.

They literally had to disable vote kicking in ranked because of abuse 😕