An Historical Thought: Ballas [Spoilers, Speculation]

[Kitsushadow]

Ballas made contact with Hunhow to use Margulis' corpse as a vehicle for one of his daughters to broadcast the truth to the Tenno, having a pretty good idea how they'd react. The fact that he survived to the present means he never intended to commit suicide. His intent was to wipe out the other Orokin, as punishment for killing his girlfriend. The fact that he appeared to have a plan when he returned suggests that he intended to use Natah to somehow reconstitute Margulis' mind by having Natah download into the "vacant" Orokin body, using whatever cybernetics she had to connect to the children as a backdoor through the Tenno security net the Orokin would never see coming.

 

He wanted to have an army of useful soldiers after the destruction of the Orokin, which is why Natah's programming is altered (probably through Margulis' implants,) to make her protective of the children against her will, which is why she's so outraged during the Ropalolyst mission. What occurred to me earlier was twofold:

 

First, assuming he succeeded, and Margulis has been restored after Natah's possession, what exactly did either of them take away from their association? Is Margulis, having been betrayed by her own people, more like the Sentients now? Is Natah, having been part of the restored Margulis for several thousand years, more like the Orokin protector of the Tenno children? Might we have a very thematic switch where Margulis sides with Hunhow and Natah sides with the Tenno in the end?

 

Second. If Ballas was forced to decamp from Lua when Natah's solution for protecting the children was to put the whole moon in the void, he would have had to go somewhere. So for two and a half thousand years, he was doing... something... in a lab somewhere. So that second thought is...

 

What's hidden in Ballas' Laboratory? And what might the players discover there?

[Loza03]

There is absolutely no indication that Margulis's corpse was used. In fact, since the Jade light is confirmed to disintegrate the target, there was no corpse at all. Lotus, although her word on anything about her relation with the Tenno cannot be trusted, reports that in her mind, she used the memories of the Tenno to shape her Margulis Persona - she has none of Margulis's memories as she doesn't remember Rell nor does she have her exact personality even prior to Apostasy - she is shocked and appalled that Margulis cast Rell out, because it conflicts with the image of the all-caring mother. She made her Margulis persona based on an idealised version of Margulis.

As for Ballas's lab? Well, DE said we might at some point get new Umbras, so it's possible they might be found there.

[ILOHARTA]

While we have more than one reason to believe Ballas used the Tenno to exact his revenge for Margulis, but what about the Man in The Wall? So far, everything points to him being the only one who never used/betrayed us, and it's the only one that seems to fit into the *real* Tenno Faction.

[OmegaVoid]

4 hours ago, Kitsushadow said:

If Ballas was forced to decamp from Lua [...] for two and a half thousand years, he was doing... something...

Unless he was in cryosleep.

The Orokin were functionally immortal by virtue of Continuity: transferring their consciousness to a new body when the previous one gets too old. This process requires Kuva. But knowing how greedy and selfish the Orokin were, what stopped them from turning on each other? Perhaps the secret of Kuva was known only to the Seven at the very top of the hierarchy. Nobody would think to depose them, as doing so would be one's own death sentence.

In Apostasy Prologue, the Lotus greets him asking how long they had waited for this moment. What moment? What has now changed?

One answer is that the player has just completed TWW, giving access to the Kuva Fortress. And in the Kuva Fortress Defence mission, the Lotus asks "What is this slop? And why do the Queens think they can make Kuva out of it?" If the Lotus has figured that out, knowing the secret to Kuva she can now revive Ballas and keep him alive indefinitely.

As for the state of the Lotus's mind... that's very much up for grabs.

We know from the lore hidden in the Cephalon Fragments that Ballas is capable of editing a Cephalon's personality, so it's entirely possible that he did something similar to Natah/the Lotus. Notice that in Apostasy Prologue her personality changes immediately he disconnects her helmet. And she seems surprised to see him, despite the fact they were talking just moments before.

Like, "I'm not your GF." "Oh, but you are, if I upload you a new personality!"

The next time we see her she is back in her Sentient form, suggesting that Ballas took her back to her people. Remember that in the Natah quest, Hunhow declared her precepts to be corrupted and promised to re-write them? It seems unlikely the Sentients gave her back her original body, but didn't touch her mind.

And I don't trust a single thing Ballas says in Chimera Prologue. He accuses the Lotus of using the Tenno to destroy potential allies against the Sentients, but in fact the Lotus always spoke of a need to maintain the balance of power between the Corpus and Grineer; she never suggested the Tenno destroy either faction.

(BtW, the one NPC who does urge the Tenno to take over the Origin System is Nora Night in the little speech she gives when you reach rank 30... Nora is also very interested in getting details about the Unum... that Unum which destroyed not just the body, but also the mind of a giant Sentient... hmmmmm.)

Like, thanks for the sword Ballas, but I'm at least as happy to use it on you as on poor old Natah or whoever she thinks she is this week. Who knows if her mind has ever really been her own!

53 minutes ago, ILOHARTA said:

what about the Man in The Wall? So far, everything points to him being the only one who never used/betrayed us

Well, the doggerel on the Requiem Mods seems to hint at TMitW's intentions; to unmake physical reality and incorporate it into the chaos of the Void.

Like maybe he's just peeved at how the Orokin had been poking holes into his domain and using it as an interstellar shortcut, and wicking off Void energy for use in trivial stuff like memory imprints.

In which case the Tenno are his foothold in reality; the beach-head for his apocalypse. Whether the Tenno are okay with that or not probably depends on what kind of upgrades he can offer us. 😆

Edited December 11, 2019 by OmegaVoid

[ILOHARTA]

1 hour ago, OmegaVoid said:

In which case the Tenno are his foothold in reality; the beach-head for his apocalypse. Whether the Tenno are okay with that or not probably depends on what kind of upgrades he can offer us. 😆

LOOOOL xD that's the award winning honor code of the Tenno xD

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

8 hours ago, Kitsushadow said:

Ballas made contact with Hunhow to use Margulis' corpse as a vehicle

Stopped reading here. Natah is a Mimic. Her fragments are Mimics and she calls herself a Mimic too.

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, OmegaVoid said:

The next time we see her she is back in her Sentient form, suggesting that Ballas took her back to her people. Remember that in the Natah quest, Hunhow declared her precepts to be corrupted and promised to re-write them? It seems unlikely the Sentients gave her back her original body, but didn't touch her mind.

One of the very first things Hunhow says is a threat to brainwash Lotus if she doesn't turn back into Natah willingly. Yeah, the Sentients totally scrambled her mind during the Sacrifice

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

One of the very first things Hunhow says is a threat to brainwash Lotus if she doesn't turn back into Natah willingly. Yeah, the Sentients totally scrambled her mind during the Sacrifice

He said that her precepts had been corrupted, and that he was going to restore her. He did the opposite of brainwashing.

[OmegaVoid]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

He said that her precepts had been corrupted, and that he was going to restore her. He did the opposite of brainwashing.

By "corrupted" he meant she was growing as a person, molded by her experiences, and making her own choices... which didn't agree with Hunhow's preferences.

"Restoring" her meant obliterating the person she had become, and regaining control over her in a curated environment conducive to her unquestioning obedience. I don't call that "the opposite of brainwashing".

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

17 minutes ago, OmegaVoid said:

By "corrupted" he meant she was growing as a person

Nope, she says in The Ropalolyst fight that the Orokin straight-up corrupted her.

[AlekSeven]

As I see it : Ballas tried to use her memories to "extract Margulis" from Lotus in Apostasy but that failed miserably and Natah came out instead.

[OmegaVoid]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Nope, she says in The Ropalolyst fight that the Orokin straight-up corrupted her.

But she says that after Hunhow "fixed" her brain. She might believe it now, but if her mind can be re-written her memories may be entirely fictitious.

Best guess right now is that the Lotus personality is in the helmet that Ballas disconnected. Was that a personality that Natah naturally developed into, or a Ballas-created persona?

Why did he disconnect it if the Lotus is what he wanted? Maybe the Lotus was Natah's creation -- to preserve her own persona.

Maybe what we briefly glimpse in the Apostasy Prologue when it's taken off is the faux-Margolis which Ballas created. Perhaps the Sentients told him he could keep Natah like that as part of their bargain... and then reneged, hence his bitterness.

But whatever the truth of it, if the New War gives us the option to "save" the Lotus, it'll probably be by putting that helmet back on her head.

And will we really care if the Lotus persona is "true" or artificial? It's what the Tenno want her to be, so it's what we'll make her be if we can.

In that respect, do we really treat her differently to how Hunhow and Ballas have?

Warframe's pretty noir if you look at it from a certain angle.

[ILOHARTA]

Natah is a victim from all points of view: she is is being manipulated by her "father", by Ballas, and perhaps even by the Tenno (in a indirect way though)