A look at unusable 4th abilities.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

   While considering the blame that Saryn gets we have to consider some characters that haven’t had a decent 4th ability. Hydroid’s Kraken is best used as a choke point in survival when paired with puddle. Outside of that the tentacles aren’t as aggressive at target seeking as the Wukong Twin. Next to Hydroid is Mirage having a 4th ability that was killed off. By going back to the YouTube archives we can see players like N00bleshowtek, who used Mirage for a map wide blind. That ultimate ability has only been effective at best when the Shadow variant of the Stalker was used. For years now Mirage has not had any use to their 4th ability. Other characters like Vauban, Ember, Titania, and Garuda have had their buffs recently ton the other hand. Now either it’s intentional or not the two recent character Guass and Grendel have had issues with their 4th abilities, Yes, Red Line did get buffed; but in the long run it just is for looks like someone who throws Mirage’s disco ball for show. The same can be said when looking at Grendel’s 4th. That ball may defeat low level enemies and double jumps; but it’s not the choice for crowd control nor damage. In all the best we can get is some revisits to unusable 4th abilities in 2020 after Empyrian and New War is launched early spring.

[NinjaZeku]

32 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

While considering the blame that Saryn gets we have to consider some characters that haven’t had a decent 4th ability.

I'm a bit confused here, you bring up Saryn in a way that seems to indicate you believe it's her 4 that's the most powerful part of her kit.

34 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Mirage having a 4th ability that was killed off [...] map wide blind

Map-wide incapacitation. That's not worthy of maybe getting taken down a notch or two?

Also, not saying it was a fair trade or anything, but she did get a damage buff on her 4 in return, at least.

39 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Gauss [...] Yes, Red Line did get buffed; but in the long run it just is for looks

So far I can't say I've really enjoyed Gauss' kit, but I do think you're underestimating just what Redline gives you / Gauss.

Massive buffs to lotsa weapon-based stats, and boosts to his other abilities, Redline is very strong.

42 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Grendel’s 4th. That ball may defeat low level enemies

FWIW, I took Grendel into a T5 Fissure recently and the damage / kill Affinity popups (through walls) I was seeing were hardly disappointing.

There's of course room for improvement, not least, the ramping up Energy cost the longer you're a-rollin' is just a fun killer.

50 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Hydroid’s Kraken

Now here though is an ability that I can agree with you on being meh 😛

Much like Zephyr's Tornado(es), going (quickly) after new targets on its own rather than staying uselessly in place would be great.

But I think if any 4 should get buffed to Hek and Bek, it's Absorb.
Puny range, puny damage, massive Energy cost, you can't do anything during it, just ... urgh.
The Augment is nifty (except for that further range nerf) but that doesn't make it okay for the base ability to be this terrible.

Also, because relevant:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1132461-hildryn-aegis-storm-tweaks/

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

44 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

I'm a bit confused here, you bring up Saryn in a way that seems to indicate you believe it's her 4 that's the most powerful part of her kit.

Map-wide incapacitation. That's not worthy of maybe getting taken down a notch or two?

Also, not saying it was a fair trade or anything, but she did get a damage buff on her 4 in return, at least.

So far I can't say I've really enjoyed Gauss' kit, but I do think you're underestimating just what Redline gives you / Gauss.

Massive buffs to lotsa weapon-based stats, and boosts to his other abilities, Redline is very strong.

FWIW, I took Grendel into a T5 Fissure recently and the damage / kill Affinity popups (through walls) I was seeing were hardly disappointing.

There's of course room for improvement, not least, the ramping up Energy cost the longer you're a-rollin' is just a fun killer.

Now here though is an ability that I can agree with you on being meh 😛

Much like Zephyr's Tornado(es), going (quickly) after new targets on its own rather than staying uselessly in place would be great.

But I think if any 4 should get buffed to Hek and Bek, it's Absorb.
Puny range, puny damage, massive Energy cost, you can't do anything during it, just ... urgh.
The Augment is nifty (except for that further range nerf) but that doesn't make it okay for the base ability to be this terrible.

Also, because relevant:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1132461-hildryn-aegis-storm-tweaks/

Saryn was a Freudian Slip from one of the staff during his stream. A radius wide damage ability seemed like the culprit reason to debut Saryn. Other characters need more catching up than a rebalancing of a character.

[XaoGarrent]

Gauss' 4 is one of the most powerful weapon buffs in the game. The only problem with it is that it needs a weapon with good ammo economy.

[selig_fay]

15 часов назад, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood сказал:

Other characters like Vauban, Ember, Titania, and Garuda have had their buffs recently ton the other hand. have had their buffs recently ton the other hand.

All we got was the ability to use an Aviator (although it should have been initially), a vacuum (although it should have been initially) and the ability to use an operator (well you get it). In fact, Titania didn't get any buffs. I would call it a bug fixes.

On the other hand, why do you think that the problem is only 4 abilities? Hydroid has an amazing first 3 abilities?

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

12 hours ago, zhellon said:

All we got was the ability to use an Aviator (although it should have been initially), a vacuum (although it should have been initially) and the ability to use an operator (well you get it). In fact, Titania didn't get any buffs. I would call it a bug fixes.

On the other hand, why do you think that the problem is only 4 abilities? Hydroid has an amazing first 3 abilities?

   Hydroid did get a touch up; but he doesn’t play the way the game needs a DPS, cc, nor technical play style demands. Yes, the character is a technical type; but other characters like Revenant have retired Hydroid.

 

   Hydroid’s kit is equivalent to the vanilla Kraken. Revenant is like the Kuva Kraken. Or how on Rainbow 6 Captiao can be replaced by the lady who throws floor traps.

 

   While the Augments help his abilities it should not be the bandaids to the character. It’s just that some characters aren’t up to par anymore because of debuffs or not getting complete  rework. 

 

   In respect, if Hydroid is upgraded certain ways he can throw off a group of enemies and be a team support; but Arcane Guardian and Energize / Grace can get the best out of this character who can face tank and cc enemies. Him and other characters can still get reworked to be buffed like Vauban is.

Edited December 13, 2019 by (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood

[selig_fay]

9 часов назад, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood сказал:

Hydroid did get a touch up; but he doesn’t play the way the game needs a DPS, cc, nor technical play style demands. , cc, nor technical play style demands.

Now the problem is not that popular and need DPS. The problem is that DPS can take a lot of damage, while many CC frames lack armor and resistances and can get oneshot. Hydroid, on the other hand, is a bad CC. But you basically don't need to play on a DPS frame to feel comfortable, because you can just take a weapon and a thick/tank frame like Inaros or Nezha and do things.

Yes, I agree that CC frames should be reworked. But I don't agree that it has to be DPS. On the contrary, all DPS should get nerf in terms of protection, because that's how the Trinity system (Tank, DPS, Support) works. It works now. Tanks like Inaros, frost, Hildryn are popular now. They don't do much damage, but their defense is great and the weapon solves that problem. Supports like Wisp, Nezha, Harrow are also popular and they are also not able to do much damage with abilities. And they all have CC. Yes, Trinity works now, but because of how broken the dps frame sets are, people prefer to play them.

In doing so, the Trinity frame is the epitome of how the Trinity system should work (Yes, that sounds silly). Trinity has good defensive and support abilities, but does not have good CC and damage. Trinity bad frame? No, it's just that no one needs that support. And why would someone need a blessing on the frame without damage, when you can take Ember which will have at least 50% resist all the time? Here we have a problem. If I'm not mistaken, Ember can heal itself and generate orbs of energy. This... I can tell that people don't need DPS frames. They need Jack-of-all-trades.

 

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

On 2019-12-13 at 5:41 AM, zhellon said:

Now the problem is not that popular and need DPS. The problem is that DPS can take a lot of damage, while many CC frames lack armor and resistances and can get oneshot. Hydroid, on the other hand, is a bad CC. But you basically don't need to play on a DPS frame to feel comfortable, because you can just take a weapon and a thick/tank frame like Inaros or Nezha and do things.

Yes, I agree that CC frames should be reworked. But I don't agree that it has to be DPS. On the contrary, all DPS should get nerf in terms of protection, because that's how the Trinity system (Tank, DPS, Support) works. It works now. Tanks like Inaros, frost, Hildryn are popular now. They don't do much damage, but their defense is great and the weapon solves that problem. Supports like Wisp, Nezha, Harrow are also popular and they are also not able to do much damage with abilities. And they all have CC. Yes, Trinity works now, but because of how broken the dps frame sets are, people prefer to play them.

In doing so, the Trinity frame is the epitome of how the Trinity system should work (Yes, that sounds silly). Trinity has good defensive and support abilities, but does not have good CC and damage. Trinity bad frame? No, it's just that no one needs that support. And why would someone need a blessing on the frame without damage, when you can take Ember which will have at least 50% resist all the time? Here we have a problem. If I'm not mistaken, Ember can heal itself and generate orbs of energy. This... I can tell that people don't need DPS frames. They need Jack-of-all-trades.

 

 

Chroma already got hard nerfed. Bad math chroma got nerfed harder than the Catchmoon kitgun. This suggestion got steered to a hard left turn. Characters that don’t have a 4th ability that works anymore can use a fix. Chroma as a hot fixed character also can use a better 4th ability.