XaoGarrent

What about a compromise? Tragedy has LoS by itself, but bypasses the LoS check on enemies tagged with Dark Verse. I suspect this is about high range builds nuking the whole map on regular starchart through walls (forgetting many other frames can also do this with their 4). I suspect this to be the case, because in Steel Path Tragedy by itself doesn't really do that much damage. The status burst from Dark Verse slash procs on the other hand can hit for millions of damage, but Dark Verse always had a LoS check.

Yeah, no. Nothing you said is true. Sweaty tryhards always cry for nerfs, and that's what you yourself are describing.

Any time developers listen to sweaty tryhards, everyone else has a bad time. Never forget this, and fight against the masochists while you can.

So if it's not obvious, the other problem besides the LoS being dysfunctional, is that some people liked the interaction between Dante's 3 and 4 as a tagging mechanic. E. G. tag enemies in different rooms as you travel between them, and then cash in with his 4. LoS is going to destroy that functionality in a game as focused around long segmented corridors as Warframe is.

Also, I think this needs to be said again: Player overguard will never be balancable in its current form. It will always be too powerful for the amount of investment and effort involved, or too weak. Because it doesn't scale with the vast majority of defensive player options, there are very few in between states that it can occupy. Ergo, players can't make choices to scale it, so it's either such a large value by default that it's overkill, or it's so little that a few armor archon shards and an HP mod makes it completely irrelevant.

There is a reason why so many people heard that and just went... The moment they commented on Dante, those of us with a memory longer than ten minutes and a more reality based perspective knew they were going to butcher him somehow. Adding a line of sight check to his 4 is actually how I expected them to do it. Any time they want to make something awful, they get their trainwreck of LoS code involved. Because it sounds reasonable on paper, but is absolutely dysfunctional in practice. So it ends up being a nerf nuke that allows for a lot of pretense and white knighting in their defense. What I still don't understand is why Kullervo didn't get hit the same way by some other mega nerf. Because damage wise, he's stronger than Dante and it was apparent from the first week onwards. Maybe it's the accessibility of that power, Kullervo needs much more build investment and tweaking.

Would you look at that ratio. Wonder how long before they remove the like function from the forums, because they got ratioed.

Friendly reminder that Kullervo and Saryn are still stronger.

The devs also said that pre-rework Volt wasn't meant to be a crowd control frame despite his 4 doing abysmal damage, but stunlocking crowds of enemies, at a time when mass crowd control wasn't as common of a thing. Sometimes the devs are rather misaligned with what they're actually creating. That doesn't mean that what they've made isn't working. Giving every frame an "ult" would be very limiting design wise, many frame designs just don't gel with that whole nuke-the-room-with-your-4 idea these days. I'd argue Grendel doesn't even *have* an ult, just an absurd amount buffs/debuffs and synergy between all of his abilities, along with very high mobility. And that's fine, he's an incredibly strong frame despite his lack of an ult. You could maybe call his 4 a "nuke," but it's not the highest damage ability and it does toxin, which is heavily resisted by armor. Against things other than Corpus, the reason it does damage really has more to do with the armor strip and possibly build choices you've made. And that armor strip helps with *everything.* As does the fact he's a walking ball of viral. Put an Incarnon weapon in Grendels hands, and THAT is a nuke. He doesn't *NEED* an ult. Or take Kullervo, his 4 is NOT his ult. Rather, it powers up or synergizes with his other abilities. Kullervo doesn't really have an ult either, but you could argue that Kullervo has two nukes, and they even work together. You could argue that his 3 and 4 maybe become an ult together, but neither of them are individually. He just does buckets of damage, and he can do it in a number of ways. I don't think anyone would claim he's worse off for not having an explicit ult button.

That in addition to all the crowd control would certainly make him a solid support frame. He has plenty of self sustain, but right now all of his healing only goes to himself, unless he runs combat discipline. ...Which is a valid choice given his enormous health pool and self healing. His 2 is also kind of disruptive, at least until it finishes. He kinda forces everyone to play at his pace. I think he could use a little more supportive design to counter balance that, Inaros is a *little* selfish for the type of frame he is supposed to be. Being able to give his team some healing over time through an offensive ability I think would help him be a little more appreciated on a team.

His 4 is obviously not really meant to be an "ult," as much as a debuff and DoT ability. I don't think its main function is meant to be crowd control, it just does that too. Energy cost aside, it's better to compare it to something like Hydroid's 1. It doesn't need to be super high damage, as it's meant to supplement other stuff, with a DoT and armor strip. It's also fine as a cone (as it's a giant cone), but it needs to spread faster. 4 (and possibly 3) probably should scale to power strength in addition to health, and it should just be faster in every sense. Faster spread, faster armor stripping, faster projectiles. Try replacing his 1 with Wrathful Advance, and running a viral/electric status dagger zaw with reach, Melee Influence and Exodia Force. A setup like this synergizes with his 2, and gives him a really straightforward flow of 4 > 1 > 2 > Melee.

I really don't know where I stand on this. On one hand, Inaros is still overly reliant on just having really strong weapon setups. On the other hand, he has really good weapon synergy in his 2. It might actually be the best grouping ability in the game now. His kit does work now... But it's a tad underwhelming. Especially for a frame that basically demands two green shards. I think he still needs work... But only a little. My suggestions are to make Elemental Sandstorm part of the base ability, and make his 4 tic faster (same damage, but spit up into faster tics to proc corrosive faster) and scale a little harder.

The irony of this is that the one frame that can benefit from more durability in this ability is Mirage herself, and you'll never want to use it for that on her because the light mode is key to ramping up her gun platform ability. Pretty much every other frame in the game wants more damage from it, but now there's no reason to ever use it for that instead of Roar or Xata's. This patch altogether made helminth balance worse, as before there was a reason to use every damage buffing ability. Some more than others, but at least it was relatively balanced. Now Eclipse and Nourish are just hands down inferior to Roar and Xata's, due to the later two being multiplicative, and roar effecting more than just guns. It's never a good sign when a change accomplishes the exact opposite of its stated goal, but I guess when you care more about the subjective reception (popularity) than objective reality, you end up making all sorts of very questionable decisions.

Good thing people play Mirage because she's a tank frame. EDIT: I realize most people are going to miss the sarcasm and satire in this. Everyone is talking about the Helminth ability, yet I bet most people haven't even tried Mirage yet. Which really betrays some shallow thinking. Unlike Grendel, Mirage had her core ability changed, two of them in fact, and her design is in a very fragile place. My build still works... But it's also a very expensive build.

Understand that the devs know that Helminth was a mistake, and anything worth actually using, like Nourish was, will be trashed in due time. Roar is likely going to be hit again once everyone switches to that, as is Xata's Whisper. I suspect Energized Munitions will get hit after that due to the shenanigans it enables on Gauss. I'm sure they'll eventually take a whack at Gloom, too, as well as Pillage, etc. If people are still using the Helminth system, they will probably go around and around nerfing in circles until people stop using it. They can't just remove it, because that would be admitting they made a mistake, something DE is not very good at.