Unfriendly to new players

[Calamir]

I supported this game way back when it first came out. I took many years off and just got back into it thanks to a friend. I've gotten to the point where the story hits you with a hard wall of needing to upgrade your operator and I have some complaints.

Leveling your operator is massively difficult with the grind for focus. I'm not against grinding focus I get that it's meant to be a grind. But the main story quests seem to operate under the assumption that you've been playing the game for many months or years accruing focus to build up your operator. I have barely managed to scrape by being under-leveled but the quests are beyond miserable. I spend the majority of the time in the missions being frustrated and moving at a glacial pace. This makes it impossible to take in or enjoy the story as it's unfolding. The difficulty curve is massively punishing for new players who just want to enjoy the story.

The biggest issue with this comes from the need to get a better Amp. Amps require a massive time investment in leveling up the Quills by doing quests on Earth. This would't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that the vomvalists are insanely annoying to kill with a level 1 operator with a level 1 amp. You gather one core at a time, if you're lucky enough to even down one at all. I am fortunately blessed having friends who are able to drag me through content to help me get caught up, but it doesn't make the experience fun, and if I were left to do it on my own it would take many weeks or months to get even a single rank in the Quills, and access to Amps that would allow me to actually farm efficiently.

But all of this is just a precursor to my biggest complaint, I'm doing my best to enjoy this game in spite of the massive task of being able to participate in the story and current level content. But what I can't stand is the amp construction. I have been mining on Earth for weeks now for Coprun. I need 85 to make the last piece of my amp. But I keep finding pustrels, nothing but pustrels. I have amassed over 24 THOUSAND pustrels, and only found 80 coprun in the months sense I started playing again. This is, from everything I read, supposed to be a very common resource, but I cannot find anything but pustrels. I tried equipping a weaker pick, I tried deliberately failing the minigame, still I get pustrels, they come at 3, 4, and 5 star rewards for a successful mine, hell I have more pustrels then I've ever amased of both coprun and pryol combine.

I just finished playing for about 4 hours doing absolutely nothing but mining. All I need is 10 more Coprun to make the 5 Coperite alloy I need to make my first ever amp and stop using the basic one handed out by the story. I didn't find a SINGLE Coprun in those 4 hours, no resource except hundreds of pustrels, and I finally broke, I just want to be able to play the game, and not even well, I just want to participate in a capacity that doesn't involve dying the moment I come out of void mode, I want a weapon that can fire for more then 2 seconds before needing to recharge and does enough damage to kill things at a reasonable pace. This material is overwriting drop rates for other "common" crafting material on Earth by a staggering margin. I know it's an important tool needed for Railjack, but this push to get people into the current phase of the game seems to have completely forgotten about those of us who are still trying to catch up. The more I play this game, the more it actively feels as though it's fighting against me, that I'm being punished for not having played every day sense the beta. I don't mind grinding to catch up but it gets to be too much when the things I need to get caught up are overwritten by an item for a part of the content I can't reasonably participate in yet. It is incredibly discouraging.

[Thural]

which quest requires you to kill an Eidolon?  Because that's the only thing in the entire game that you would need a better amp/operator for.

[Harzipan]

Hi! I'm the friend mentioned in this, figured I'd respond with my own thing I sent to support to add a little more context. Thanks for reading!

Harzipan Mar 2, 19:20 EST Hi! I hope that this isn't too odd and that this is the right place to say this, but.. the Plains of Eidolon has developed a rather specific issue with the release of Railjack that I've noticed after I started playing with a close friend who has just started getting into the area.. With Pustrels getting added to the drop table of ores, it makes it much more difficult to farm up common Eidolon resources. This would normally not be an issue if it didn't seem like the Pustrel drop chance took up 70-80% of the possible drop chances. This too would be alright, if it was on a planetary node like with the other Railjack introductory resource on Ceres. But unfortunately it's in an open world zone with some very self-contained resources that, if you're in that zone, you're probably looking to seek out instead of something that you can find in mass amounts once you obtain a Railjack. This can be fixed in many ways, and I have suggestions, but it's up to you if you want to hear them. I'd just like this issue to be solved in.. any way, please. If it ruined Eidolon this much this fast for my friend, I can imagine it would be very frustrating for many other players new to the zone and looking to craft some of the earlier stuff, and even the later stuff that still requires those resources. Just.. please do something, I would appreciate it. It seems like an easy thing to fix/adjust, so please consider it. (Moving it to Eris would be my most immediate suggestion. It would just make sense given the faction that controls it!) Alright, I've said my piece. Thank you for reading and I again apologize if this was not the place to ask. This is my first time using the Warframe support system after all my years of playing so I'm not terribly sure on what the criteria is for it. Have a nice day!

[Harzipan]

5 minutes ago, Thural said:

which quest requires you to kill an Eidolon?  Because that's the only thing in the entire game that you would need a better amp/operator for.

Eidolon stuff and the most recent quest require a better amp/operator and we both expect that to become only more relevant as we move further into the current plotline, which inspired us both to bring this up.

[Thural]

Just now, Harzipan said:

Eidolon stuff and the most recent quest require a better amp/operator and we both expect that to become only more relevant as we move further into the current plotline, which inspired us both to bring this up.

the most recent quest does not require an amp or upgraded school at all, are you trying to kill sentients with only your operator?

[Harzipan]

2 minutes ago, Thural said:

the most recent quest does not require an amp or upgraded school at all, are you trying to kill sentients with only your operator?

It's more the very high level Vomvalysts that had been giving us both trouble, as to fully kill them you need to use Operator mode. I know they're not essential, but it was a smack in the face to both of us as to how important Operators are likely to become rather soon and I have a decently powered Operator at this point, so.. yeah. I'm at least a little worried that the current focus grind and the related stuff is bit too steep of a grind at the moment and it could be improved in some ways to.. modernize it, I suppose?

[Harzipan]

2 minutes ago, Harzipan said:

It's more the very high level Vomvalysts that had been giving us both trouble, as to fully kill them you need to use Operator mode. I know they're not essential, but it was a smack in the face to both of us as to how important Operators are likely to become rather soon and I have a decently powered Operator at this point, so.. yeah. I'm at least a little worried that the current focus grind and the related stuff is bit too steep of a grind at the moment and it could be improved in some ways to.. modernize it, I suppose?

I should specify that we've only gotten to the current Railjack stage that 'unlocks' the current newest quest, not the new quest itself (Which I know nothing about and am excited to get to). And yeah, I get that it's supposed to be hard, but I didn't expect those tiny ghostmonsters to be able to take such a beating with my current equipment and experience with the game.

[NekroArts]

19 minutes ago, Calamir said:

The biggest issue with this comes from the need to get a better Amp. Amps require a massive time investment in leveling up the Quills by doing quests on Earth. This would't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that the vomvalists are insanely annoying to kill with a level 1 operator with a level 1 amp. You gather one core at a time, if you're lucky enough to even down one at all. I am fortunately blessed having friends who are able to drag me through content to help me get caught up, but it doesn't make the experience fun, and if I were left to do it on my own it would take many weeks or months to get even a single rank in the Quills, and access to Amps that would allow me to actually farm efficiently.

They're not that hard to kill with level 1 operator/amp. Use your weapons to get them into ghost form, wait for them to use their charge attack, then shoot them with operator beam. And remember that void blast aslo deals damage to them so when you run out of amp energy use operator energy-void blast to continue to deal damage while waiting for amp energy to regenerate.

9 minutes ago, Calamir said:

But all of this is just a precursor to my biggest complaint, I'm doing my best to enjoy this game in spite of the massive task of being able to participate in the story and current level content. But what I can't stand is the amp construction. I have been mining on Earth for weeks now for Coprun. I need 85 to make the last piece of my amp. But I keep finding pustrels, nothing but pustrels. I have amassed over 24 THOUSAND pustrels, and only found 80 coprun in the months sense I started playing again. This is, from everything I read, supposed to be a very common resource, but I cannot find anything but pustrels. I tried equipping a weaker pick, I tried deliberately failing the minigame, still I get pustrels, they come at 3, 4, and 5 star rewards for a successful mine, hell I have more pustrels then I've ever amased of both coprun and pryol combine.

Yeah, ever since that new materials was added the results of getting the other materials dropped noticeably. I keep swearing the drop chance on them are more weighted towards them.

[Calamir]

6 minutes ago, Thural said:

which quest requires you to kill an Eidolon?  Because that's the only thing in the entire game that you would need a better amp/operator for.

The first few quests when you get your operator make a big point of using your operator to bypass the sentients resistances. The first one where you run into them was fine, but when you get to the quest with the shape shifting ones the difficulty spikes greatly and it becomes apparent you were meant to have a better amp by this point. This is also before you get umbra.

I do have umbra now and the mods and sword, that's all well and good but considering the last part of railjack and the amount of sentients it definitely seems less then ideal that I cannot use my operator at all to assist when the story made it a point to teach you that that was how to most effectively deal with sentients. I'm aware that Eidolons aren't "necessary" content but it all looks as though its forming a trend for where the story is going.

Again, I have absolutely no issues grinding to get stronger, I expect that, i'm hella behind. But, it's the fact that the drop rates are so low on common necessary materials it's a test of even the most patient person. I can't grind to get stronger if the item I'm grinding just will not drop for me.

[Thural]

Just now, Calamir said:

The first few quests when you get your operator make a big point of using your operator to bypass the sentients resistances. The first one where you run into them was fine, but when you get to the quest with the shape shifting ones the difficulty spikes greatly and it becomes apparent you were meant to have a better amp by this point. This is also before you get umbra.

I do have umbra now and the mods and sword, that's all well and good but considering the last part of railjack and the amount of sentients it definitely seems less then ideal that I cannot use my operator at all to assist when the story made it a point to teach you that that was how to most effectively deal with sentients. I'm aware that Eidolons aren't "necessary" content but it all looks as though its forming a trend for where the story is going.

Again, I have absolutely no issues grinding to get stronger, I expect that, i'm hella behind. But, it's the fact that the drop rates are so low on common necessary materials it's a test of even the most patient person. I can't grind to get stronger if the item I'm grinding just will not drop for me.

you literally don't need to do more than 1 damage with your operator to clear the resistances though.

[Calamir]

15 hours ago, NekroArts said:

They're not that hard to kill with level 1 operator/amp. Use your weapons to get them into ghost form, wait for them to use their charge attack, then shoot them with operator beam. And remember that void blast aslo deals damage to them so when you run out of amp energy use operator energy-void blast to continue to deal damage while waiting for amp energy to regenerate.

Yeah, ever since that new materials was added the results of getting the other materials dropped noticeably. I keep swearing the drop chance on them are more weighted towards them.

I appreciate your tips, and I'll admit a lot of this is a result of my bad amp and terrible aim with a narrow beam on a small target I struggle to see. It's something I have managed to do, it's just a process that feels really bad, the collection of one core at a time like that is less then ideal. As I mentioned I've been fortunate to have help, but when I'm grinding out the items to make an amp just to be able to feel like i'm participating in the stuff my friend drags me through, and the game just will not give me the items that all the help guides I look up assure me i should be swimming in by now. It really hurts the enjoyment factor.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Calamir

[Harzipan]

10 minutes ago, Thural said:

you literally don't need to do more than 1 damage with your operator to clear the resistances though.

 

Not arguing that whatsoever, the point of this all is that with how easy it is to get through the 'early game' with friends, when it drops you into a solo mission, the ones with mimics in particular, it's a little bit of a shock if you haven't really worked on your Operator at the time. Which, with how easy the content has gotten through that point in the game (With help, of course), isn't something a newer player has much of an idea about if they've been playing through blind like he has and like I did. And with how cool The Sacrifice is overall, I'd imagine most players that get a start on it would be more or less be forced to either power through with a LOT of struggle to experience more of the narrative interest or cut the coolness short by having to go farm out Operator stuff, possibly completely from scratch. And.. that's not very fun, nor does it play into the current 'power fantasy' that Warframe has become these days.

[Thural]

2 minutes ago, Harzipan said:

 

Not arguing that whatsoever, the point of this all is that with how easy it is to get through the 'early game' with friends, when it drops you into a solo mission, the ones with mimics in particular, it's a little bit of a shock if you haven't really worked on your Operator at the time. Which, with how easy the content has gotten through that point in the game (With help, of course), isn't something a newer player has much of an idea about if they've been playing through blind like he has and like I did. And with how cool The Sacrifice is overall, I'd imagine most players that get a start on it would be more or less be forced to either power through with a LOT of struggle to experience more of the narrative interest or cut the coolness short by having to go farm out Operator stuff, possibly completely from scratch. And.. that's not very fun, nor does it play into the current 'power fantasy' that Warframe has become these days.

You are arguing it, every time you say you need to grind out your operator.  You don't need upgrades to press 5, left click, and press 5 again.

[Harzipan]

3 minutes ago, Thural said:

You are arguing it, every time you say you need to grind out your operator.  You don't need upgrades to press 5, left click, and press 5 again.

The basis for this is mostly all based on how impossible it was to kill a level 70 or so Vomvalyst with a decently powerful amp and one very weak amp. Yes, we were able to do some damage, but neither of us was able to kill a single one of them with both of our combined efforts. All the other stuff is just related to the current Operator grind, which is mostly fine in it's current state! It just has some issues with how we imagine it's going to be in the future, and it's currently gating both of us from current content a little bit and what I imagine future content is going to look like. We're both pretty strong and we're both pretty good at the game (At least I'd think us to be so at this point), things just seem a bit busted in the current state and I think they could use some work, and hopefully soon. Just fix the heckin' Pustrel problem and I'll be more than happy with at least that, ahah. 

I apologize if any of this seems combative or anything, that's not my intent. I enjoy a good 95% of Warframe's content, even the broken and janky stuff, this has just become a rather big issue for our specific interests and the casual pace we enjoy the game, and I can't imagine we're alone in this. 

[Volkeris]

21 minutes ago, Harzipan said:

The basis for this is mostly all based on how impossible it was to kill a level 70 or so Vomvalyst

You don't need to kill them at all, by the way. They don't count towards the sentient kill count. Better yet, you can avoid spawning them altogether.

[XideBeast]

I'm free at the moment, waiting for new contents so if you guys need help or wutever u need, I can do with you guys to help catch up the current game status. :v

[Xaero]

1 hour ago, Harzipan said:

It's more the very high level Vomvalysts that had been giving us both trouble, as to fully kill them you need to use Operator mode. I know they're not essential, but it was a smack in the face to both of us as to how important Operators are likely to become rather soon and I have a decently powered Operator at this point, so.. yeah. I'm at least a little worried that the current focus grind and the related stuff is bit too steep of a grind at the moment and it could be improved in some ways to.. modernize it, I suppose?

Gear/mods/forma grind is ok.

Railjack parts grind is ok.

Intrinsics grind is ok.

Amp grind is... not?

[Harzipan]

Just now, Xaero said:

Gear/mods/forma grind is ok.

Railjack parts grind is ok.

Intrinsics grind is ok.

Amp grind is... not?

Yes to the first one, no to the next 2, and for the fourth, yeah, with at least Plains Pustrels in the picture it's taken Calamir about about 15 or so hours of casual grinding to get even the first two parts of the first 'okay' Amp, and the 4 straight hours of mining with only getting 2 of the 'common' ore drops he needed for the last part was pretty much what prompted the initial post (We just gave up and messaged support at that point because it was just getting silly). I wish I was exaggerating, but I was there for most of it. Maybe he was just unlucky, but it felt awful and that's what I kinda want to bring attention to. The Pustrel drop rate from mining in particular is the thing I care the most about here if only because it seems like it'd be an easy fix for what appears to be a pretty big problem, at least in our recent experience.

[Harzipan]

7 minutes ago, XideBeast said:

I'm free at the moment, waiting for new contents so if you guys need help or wutever u need, I can do with you guys to help catch up the current game status. :v

Thank you for the offer, really! But we pretty much exclusively play Warframe as a co-op game with just us at this point outside of relic grinding and Onslaught stuff. But feel free to add me if you like, I'm Harzipan in-game. ^^

[Yxivi]

Eidolons and railjack were never meant for beginners. I understand that you are a returning player but as you said, you've been out of the game for a while and you're just starting to catch up with the changes. Still tho, eidolon and railjack are the closest thing we can get to endgame, so you can expect this to require some "grind" for you as a returning player.

Now, regarding your problem with resources in amp construction, I suppose you are mining to get the ores?
During daytime in the Plains, there's a robot thingy that spawns there called "Tusk Thumper". They drop a lot of Plains resources (from ores to fish parts) and it is faster to get resources this way. Getting a higher tier bounty from Konzu will spawn tougher versions "Tusk Thumper Bull" and "Tusk Thumper Doma", these bad bois can drop rare resources. 
You can learn more about Tusk Thumpers here: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Tusk_Thumper

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Yxivi

[Harzipan]

11 minutes ago, Volkeris said:

You don't need to kill them at all, by the way. They don't count towards the sentient kill count. Better yet, you can avoid spawning them altogether.

I know, I just have this weird thing where I like to clear all the enemies I can on non-endless modes, especially in 'unique' missions. It's just kind of odd that together we were able to kill all the other much scarier things in the area but the tiny ghostjerks were basically untouchable after we cracked their shells due to their regeneration.

[Pavelord]

Level 70 vombalyst?, are you choosing the highest mission with Konsu and then entering the planes, I remember I went free roam, and just chase the Eidolon shooting it, and I would be able to get 60 or so cores, just killing the vombalyst that protect it, getting the first parts for the amp should not be that hard and is considerably better that the mote amp.

As for minerals you need to get into the caves, the one in Mount Nang, should get you tons of minerals and gems. 

[Harzipan]

15 minutes ago, Pavelord said:

Level 70 vombalyst?, are you choosing the highest mission with Konsu and then entering the planes, I remember I went free roam, and just chase the Eidolon shooting it, and I would be able to get 60 or so cores, just killing the vombalyst that protect it, getting the first parts for the amp should not be that hard and is considerably better that the mote amp.

As for minerals you need to get into the caves, the one in Mount Nang, should get you tons of minerals and gems. 

We're talking specifically about the ones you encounter in the, uh.. 'current' content, to avoid any actual spoilers in case folks reading haven't gotten that far. A pretty niche example, but one that got stuck in my head after experiencing it. Plains Vomvalysts are more or less a piece of cake at this point. 

[LOKOUBA]

1 hour ago, Thural said:

you literally don't need to do more than 1 damage with your operator to clear the resistances though.

to think I brute forced it with my warframe when I could have just cleared the immunity with mote amp.. shame on me.

[Thural]

10 minutes ago, LOKOUBA said:

to think I brute forced it with my warframe when I could have just cleared the immunity with mote amp.. shame on me.

it seems like these guys are doing the opposite.