I Find Myself Becoming More And More Bitter As The Days Progress

[Loswaith]

I personally enjoy RNG.

Yeah, it makes it a long grind, or a short one.

Depending on ones luck.

 

Take two people for instance, grinding for the same thing. One get's it after 3 runs, and the other after 20runs.

I can bet you that the person who worked through 20runs will love whatever he finally got, a lot more than the one who merely did three runs.

...

As it stands this really doesnt need to be mutually exclusive or even random.   Warframes are a good place to start with reducing the RNG dependance.  By hitting the median point this can work in favour for the game in fact. 

The incentive to work through nodes could very well be tied to gaining of warframes (warframes being the cornerstone of the game), even giving a little bit of story along the way, simply by making it that a player works through a certain number of nodes (even with a weak linking story most of us can come up with in 5-10 minutes) and get a blueprint for part of a warframe.  Once you have cleared a planet's nodes you will have gotten all parts of a specific warframe.  This means everyone gets all bits for the same effort (not one person gets it in to few missions and someone else gets it in too many).  The ammount of effort is set by how many nodes DE expects you to have gone through for a certain warframe, giving them total control on the access.

 

I honestly dont mind the RNG part for weapons (I dont like 2% drop rates though), as there is a huge ammount one can use without relying on RNG. Even the non-essential mods on RNG can work too.

 

The combination means RNG is there and its not overused.  The real issue being that RNG (as it currently is used) is used everywhere for everything.

 

...

Simply put, there isnt enough to this game so RNG is put in place to extend it.

Here in lies the bigest issue, while RNG is relied on to extend the game, other options are easier to put aside as RNG is handling that currently.  RNG should never be seen as something to give players 'something to do'.  It should be looked at as players have 'this to do' and RNG can enhance and assist that to make for a better or varied experience.

 

Even back at update 7, DE was saying RNG wasnt what they wanted for end game (it was just the current stop gap), much like Vor's prize.  However the question of what they have planed for end game (or the ultimate goal for the game) is still being avoided and the community is no closer to any idea what end game will be (than they were back then) and are even unaware if DE actually has any plans for "end game" at all.

 

Sure we get allot of X, Y and Z are coming but nothing pertaining to what the game is ultimatly heading to become.

 

I dont expect them to go "here is end game", I would like them to go "Here is some idea of what we have planed for the game to become, and X, Y and Z add to that in this way" (be it including end game or otherwise).  Sure people get upset when it doesnt turn out how a developer said it would but things in theory rarely make it in practice.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Loswaith

[Sparrohawk]

you see this thread for the most part consists of common sense, and for much smaller part of personal opinion (no offence Nugget).

 

Common sense is in no way common. Nor is it universal, in that everyone else will understand and agree with what you say. Don't appeal to it as being the only means to reach an answer, or even a valid answer of itself.

 

as a member of a community with 4300 active members for the last 10 years, i made a post there about warframe game. so you can guess how many views it had. Many people got interested in this game so they came to me with questions about the game. So most popular question was : what to do when you have it all? i think you know my answer right?

it's not about pleasing everyone it's about making a decent, serious game. As it now wf is game for two weeks maximum if you are terribly slow. This problem with RNG is a result when actual gaming content is much smaller than content to grind. To a point where it's literally impossible to squeeze drops into existing gaming content.

 

I'm presuming your answer is: Take a break, and come back in a bit when there's more content to do. Because that'd be my answer.

 

Whenever someone says that this game lasts for X period of time, I ask them how long they've played it for. Because the answer is usually Y, where Y > X. And I've played this game since, I think, update 7. Just after they changed the Mod system, I believe. My point is that if you feel that the game only lasts that long, why are you still here? What makes you stay longer?

 

And as for WF being a decent serious game, well, I happen to think that it is. Naturally, that's opinion. I'd presume it's an opinion of many, though I could be wrong. And you know, I'm not exactly fond of the RNG in the game, but there are other reasons that I like this game, and they tend to outweigh the negatives. As a corollary, I hope they can change the RNG in such a way that it becomes a positive, so that I like the game even more. However, I'm also patient enough to realise that sometimes these things require time. Sometimes a lot of time. It'll come. Or perhaps it won't, and perhaps the game will stagnate from there. Who knows :)

 

Developer not only not taking into consideration human factor, but also have very distant understanding about gaming factor as well. Or if you are cynical as me - you may assume that they know all of this all too well.

 

Again, you're making the same mistake that so many others do, both in this thread and others. You immediately make a huge assumption that the developer is not taking certain things into account because they're not doing things you want to see happen. That is amazingly entitled and self-centered, not to mention astoundingly blinkered. You have no idea of their thought processes, their dialogue to one another, their vision for where the game will be in 6 months, nevermind a year or beyond. And no, the fact that they've made certain actions (like introducing Harvester the way they have) is NOT evidence of a lack of consideration. For all you know, it may be an end result of said consideration. Neither you nor I know. So don't go about pretending that you know what they have and have not considered, what they have and have not thought about, because you don't know now and you likely never will. Stop making attributions that you have absolutely no direct or indirect evidence for.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Sparrohawk

[Althix]

what makes me stay longer? mmm.... there is literally nothing else to play until March.

 

and no i am not making assumptions. I draw conclusions. i don't even have to go far for evidence i just can check first topic in warframe news sub-forum.

 

you see i used to be proud of my missions time stat, but after update after update i realized that this stat is nothing more than a time that indicates disappointment and broken dreams.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Althix

[Methanoid]

its a bit sad tbh, i gave up playing heaps of Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer to come here for a much better game, then after i hit mastery10, got bored of having little to nothing to do, lack of long infested def/surv (derelict often crashing hosts after a while and infestations being cut short every run) i went back to ME3, still awaiting eagerly future patches/updates for warframe tho so i can jump back in and enjoy the game again.

 

well written thread tho OP. +1 and then some.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Methanoid

[OptimumBow0]

tbf, Halo reach isn't a F2P game that needs constant updates to survive.

You got me there.

 

But it just hit me that we might all be taking this game a little too seriously. (I can understand why the people who spent over $100 on this game would be sorely disappointed though.)

 

But it seems like DE puts in stuff, gets feedback, and improves it later. Look at Vay Hek's rework. And since there's lots of people complaining about gametypes lately, maybe we'll get a missions rework too. After all, DE doesn't want their player-base to leave, right? They want to keep us here. Forever. If not, I'll go play something else.

[Kamal965]

You got me there.

 

But it just hit me that we might all be taking this game a little too seriously. (I can understand why the people who spent over $100 on this game would be sorely disappointed though.)

 

But it seems like DE puts in stuff, gets feedback, and improves it later. Look at Vay Hek's rework. And since there's lots of people complaining about gametypes lately, maybe we'll get a missions rework too. After all, DE doesn't want their player-base to leave, right? They want to keep us here. Forever. If not, I'll go play something else.

 

That's the whole thing, though; they say something, and it never happens.

[OptimumBow0]

That's the whole thing, though; they say something, and it never happens.

Lots of people complaining about armor/enemy scaling - Damage 2.0! (Which also fixed most of the complaints about Volt)

 

Lots of people complaining about melee lately - Melee 2.0 incoming!

 

Many people suggest a new tutorial to give a better and more informative newbie experience - They tried, but they still need to improve.

 

It seems like they're focusing on the core mechanics of the game, and hopefully they'll move on from there to other aspects of the game.

[Luminati07]

Lots of people complaining about armor/enemy scaling - Damage 2.0! (Which also fixed most of the complaints about Volt)

 

Lots of people complaining about melee lately - Melee 2.0 incoming!

 

It seems like they're focusing on the core mechanics of the game, and hopefully they'll move on from there to other aspects of the game.

1) DE's original stance was that "Armour is working as intended, and will stay as it is".

 It took dozens of threads and complete chaos on the forums for them to change their minds.

 

Plus, let's be honest. In its current implementation, Damage 2.0 does not solve what it set out to do.

 

2) We still know very little about the melee overhaul. I'll wait until it's out before I'll even consider singing praises to DE.

 

3) If they're "focusing on the core mechanics on the game", they sure have a hell of a long way to go.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Nugget_

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Lots of people complaining about armor/enemy scaling - Damage 2.0! (Which also fixed most of the complaints about Volt)

And yet, it still failed at what it was meant to do. (fix armor scaling)

 

 

Lots of people complaining about melee lately - Melee 2.0 incoming!

Really? People have been complaining about melee since at least U7.

[spacedkadet]

Not sure if this was mentioned in a post somewhere in this thread already (if it has then my apologies) but in the first section you have about transmuting and mod packs having warframe abilities. They don't anymore :) If you have a load of rare ability mods such as avalanche/absorb/mprime etc then you should now transmute them :) 

 I agree with your other points though, just wanted to pint that out as everyone ive spoke to about it doesnt realise this about transmuting/mod packs.

 

Hotfix 11.2.1:

 

Changes:          

- Removed Warframe and Sentinel Abilities (Precepts) from Mod Packs and Transmute results.

[Luminati07]

Not sure if this was mentioned in a post somewhere in this thread already (if it has then my apologies) but in the first section you have about transmuting and mod packs having warframe abilities. They don't anymore :) If you have a load of rare ability mods such as avalanche/absorb/mprime etc then you should now transmute them :) 

 I agree with your other points though, just wanted to pint that out as everyone ive spoke to about it doesnt realise this about transmuting/mod packs.

Yeah, I know, I just haven't bothered to update that part of my OP.

 

To be honest, it's too late for me to even care.

Here's my quote from the thread.

 

Gee, that only took, what, 6 months?

 

Bet you guys are glad that you've already got everyone's Platinum from them.

 

Sure, that may seem harsh. But the complaints with the mod packs had been going on for months and months, completely unanswered.

They took far long for me to care in the slightest.

[OptimumBow0]

3) If they're "focusing on the core mechanics on the game", they sure have a hell of a long way to go.

Exactly.

 

And yet, it still failed at what it was meant to do. (fix armor scaling)

How so?

[MechNexus]

My only thought for this thread is: "This is exactly what needs fixing."

These issues are exactly what DE needs to solve.

 

There's more RNG in warframe than in all of Las Vegas, and it's getting out of hand. Token systems have been suggested for as long as I can remember. DE can at least make the RNG less painful, like allowing us to trade blueprints and weapon parts, removing credit caches and common fusion cores from all survival drop tables and increasing the chance of getting parts you don't have like OP suggested.

 

The gameplay seriously needs some spice added to it - Whenever I boot the game, I find myself on the same quest each time - I'm trying to acquire something. This time round it's Boar Prime, Dakra prime and Burston Prime, which is more difficult than it should be due to our old friend RNG. I heard that low-tier cores and credit caches are being removed from the derelict survival drop tables, though - So good on DE for that.

 

And let's not get started on stunlocks. 75% of my deaths when fighting grineer was because of a Scorpion or two shield lancers playing tennis with me as the ball while lancers and heavy gunners fill me with bullets I can't dodge. This isn't difficulty - It's frustrating and doesn't enrich the experience for the player. Bandaid mods like handspring don't help the situation.

 

I honestly hope DE reads this thread and takes all of OP's points into account and actually act upon them. It would improve the game incredibly.

[Katakuna]

How so?

 

Because armor still scales to the point of stupidity.

[OptimumBow0]

Because armor still scales to the point of stupidity.

I don't know what the "point of stupidity" is since I never got decent equipment until last October; never met much high-level content while in Damage 1.0

[KvotheTheArcane1]

How so?

Armor still scales up, it still reduces damage by X%, and there is no cap to it. Which was the exact problem in D1.0, which is what prompted D2.0

Edited January 4, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[JerryMouse13]

Armor still scales up, it still reduces damage by X%, and there is no cap to it. Which was the exact problem in D1.0, which is what prompted D2.0

 

I thought what prompted Damage 2.0 was the necessity of armor ignore weapons, and the proliferation of the infamous 'rainbow gun' where you just equip every elemental mod, and you were set for every situation ever (and you could freeze enemies solid while simultaneously burning them to death).

 

I don't recall them ever saying that it was meant to address the infinite scaling of enemies.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I thought what prompted Damage 2.0 was the necessity of armor ignore weapons, and the proliferation of the infamous 'rainbow gun' where you just equip every elemental mod, and you were set for every situation ever (and you could freeze enemies solid while simultaneously burning them to death).

And why was AI so good? You said it yourself ("I thought what prompted Damage 2.0 was the necessity of armor ignore weapons,"). Because armor scaled forever with no cap. A boltor with 18 damage was better than the braton prime (which had 25) as long as enemies had 30% DR. All grineer (minus light units), ancients, chargers, and corpus (provided corpus were like, level 30 or so) all had that, and the void was made up of purely armored enemies too.

 

We still have "rainbow" builds, it just matters what order the mods go in. DE's excuse of "you shouldn't be able to burn enemies while freezing them" while valid, feels like they're trying to not admit they made a mistake with D1.0 to me.

 

I don't recall them ever saying that it was meant to address the infinite scaling of enemies.

It started when they said "armor is working as intended" then within hours it changed to "armor is under review". They never said endless scaling was the problem, but if they don't realize it, then they missed 90% of complaints about D1.0

[Althix]

I don't know what the "point of stupidity" is since I never got decent equipment until last October; never met much high-level content while in Damage 1.0

than your opinion is biased in it's core.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Althix

[OptimumBow0]

than your opinion is biased in it's core.

1) Every opinion is biased

2) I'm saying that I don't have enough experience with Damage 1.0 to compare it to Damage 2.0 in terms of "scaling". - Not really bias, but a fact

3) I do, however, like Damage 2.0 more so than Damage 1.0 in the realm that I have completed on the starmap. (If that doesn't make sense, then I'll try to explain better) - That's my opinion

Armor still scales up, it still reduces damage by X%, and there is no cap to it. Which was the exact problem in D1.0, which is what prompted D2.0

Forgive me, but isn't armor supposed to increase per level? And I thought armor scaled ridiculously in Dmg 1.0 and people wanted a smoother transition. Also, Grineer are the only faction to possess armor, so that's 2/3 of the problem with armor gone. (Not to mention the right physical +elemental combo can eat right through that armor)

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Forgive me, but isn't armor supposed to increase per level?

Which was the problem. If you never did high end content in D1.0, then you don't really understand what people are talking about, but at lvl 50 grineer had an 87% resistance to all non armor ignoring damage.

 

And I thought armor scaled ridiculously in Dmg 1.0 and people wanted a smoother transition.

No, it just has the same problem as before, a smooth transition does nothing to fix the problem.

 

Also, Grineer are the only faction to possess armor, so that's 2/3 of the problem with armor gone. (Not to mention the right physical +elemental combo can eat right through that armor)

IIRC I think robots have it too (their HP bar is yellow), plus corpus heads are still bugged I think.

 

And even elements get reduced by armor, so if they have a 50% DR, right there is 50% of your damage gone regardless of what elements you have.

[Sparrohawk]

 

what makes me stay longer? mmm.... there is literally nothing else to play until March.

 

Well, if there's nothing else to play, then that's your problem, not the game.

 

and no i am not making assumptions. I draw conclusions. i don't even have to go far for evidence i just can check first topic in warframe news sub-forum.

 

you see i used to be proud of my missions time stat, but after update after update i realized that this stat is nothing more than a time that indicates disappointment and broken dreams.

 

Then cite your evidence. 

 

Not to mention that the presence of a thread on a forum is not evidence of a lack of consideration of feedback by the developers. It's simply evidence of feedback. Until you can provide direct evidence that they haven't considered what you and others have had to say, then you're making assumptions.

 

And I'm sorry, but if 'disappointment and broken dreams' is how you describe your in-game time with Warframe, and yet you still continue to play it, then you're sending a rather mixed message, no? 

[Killist]

To me, this is like Martin Luther nailing 95 theses to the chapel door.

 

I just hope DE isn't reading this during office parties and having a good laugh.

[Althix]

no. because i am an officer and people in my cell in this game are still playing. and it's my responsibility to help them. i am not playing wf unless i have to.

 

as for evidence, you see if you are playing this game long enough you don't need any. because it's clear as day. even this charade will killboard. if you are not playing this game long enough there is no point to explain this to you.

 

it's like this Optimum guy, have zero prespective but still is trying to prove something.

[Sparrohawk]

Which was the problem. If you never did high end content in D1.0, then you don't really understand what people are talking about, but at lvl 50 grineer had an 87% resistance to all non armor ignoring damage.

 

Pretty much. Enemy armour scaling was insane, and needed changin'.

 

 

No, it just has the same problem as before, a smooth transition does nothing to fix the problem.

 

IIRC I think robots have it too (their HP bar is yellow), plus corpus heads are still bugged I think.

 

And even elements get reduced by armor, so if they have a 50% DR, right there is 50% of your damage gone regardless of what elements you have.

 

Actually read up on how Damage 2.0 works before you make that kind of statement. Unless an enemy actually *has* an armour value, then no kind of reduction is applied. Further, the damage reduction from armour only applies when armour is being directly damaged e.g. when you're hitting a Grineer directly. If you're hitting a shield, a health-based enemy (for instance), then no damage reduction is being applied from armour because they don't have any. The only reduction that takes place is if the elemental damage you've equipped has modifiers to the particular nature of that enemy, such as Cold damage being reduced when used against Infested flesh-based enemies (50%). 

 

In the case of armour itself, the nature of the equation used to calculate damage reduction has diminishing returns, such that more armour does not correlate to a linear increase in damage reduction. So scaling has, in fact, been rather neatly fixed.

 

 

as for evidence, you see if you are playing this game long enough you don't need any. because it's clear as day. even this charade will killboard. if you are not playing this game long enough there is no point to explain this to you.

 

it's like this Optimum guy, have zero prespective but still is trying to prove something.

 

No, actually, you still do need evidence. If I simply take your word for it then I am willing to discard the burden of actual evidence. I will not do so simply because you think that playing the game for a given length of time is necessary to submit your entirely subjective opinion as evidence, which it is not. Thinking that myself and others lack perspective because we haven't the same sheer length of time played is no substitute for an argument with substance.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Sparrohawk