I Find Myself Becoming More And More Bitter As The Days Progress

[Luminati07]

 

hey Nugget.

people were asking for possibility to trade bps and parts like months ago. De listened and delivered. Enjoy.

You're right, however, the time difference is the big factor here.

 

When trading was first announced, people got all excited and I believe that it clouded their judgement.

When DE announced that there would be no trading of blueprints, it was met with very little backlash, if any.

 

However, now that we've had x amount of months with trading, and players have had time to think about it a little more, you can tell the time has changed the attitude.

It's apparent when you just look at the first page of GD.

75% of the threads are complaints about the void trading, with a few that are supportive of it.

 

I think Prime trading is a stupid idea, but I do think the forums are in a pretty sorry state in regards to the actual issue.

[Althix]

parts trading was a stupid idea in the first place. time difference factor or not.

 

maybe all these people who are complaning about prime market simply understood the same simple fact that we knew for like half of the year or more. that this game is pretty much empty if you don't have artificial goals of grinding this or that. and with prime market on players hands - they will face "nothing to do" problem much faster than we did.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Althix

[shut]

I'm pretty mixed about Prime Trading. I think that it's a bit of a slap to the face for the veterans who spent hours farming for their items and it completely scraps the purpose of Prime weapons in the first place, but you can't deny that it is a way around the whole RNG issue. Of course, a Token system of sorts could have accomplished that without slapping vets in the face, but still.

 

My biggest gripe about Prime trading right now is that Prime weapons are now cheaper to obtain for platinum than their normal counterparts are; they really shot themselves in the foot with that one. The "THE WARFRAME MARKET IS A JOKE AND ACTIVELY DISCOURAGES IMPULSE PURCHASES (UPDATED, INCLUDES SOLUTION TO INSTALLED CATALYSTS/WEAPON SLOT ON WEAPONS)" thread is more relevant than ever.

Edited February 20, 2014 by SortaRandom

[TunaMayo]

Enjoy 2 new edits.

 

At the rate the game is going I wouldn't be surprised if Void keys are eventually removed from the drop tables entirely. Or Void keys are only available in events for the free players.

 

The game I and many others "founded" was a different beast to the one we are faced with today.

 

It was a simple run n gun. You had the option to farm for certain things or just enjoy the gameplay. There were very little limitations other than potatoes and slots. Many frames were similarly balanced, or could all be modded to be equally overpowered. There was an obvious progression when it came to weapons, but all weapons were available on the market and you had the explicit choice to build or buy them.

 

I had hoped that DE would grow upon this foundation, which they have to an extent.

 

What I didn't expect was them to do was to so ruthlessly attempt to exploit the rate at which the game is growing. The game has pretty much developed into a trap for new players to drain them of cash with the pretense that you only need platinum for slots and cosmetics right up until they hit the burnout. 

 

Who needs lore when you can capitalise upon a platinum trading market?

 

Who needs end game when you can let new players buy their way to end game content?

 

They exponentially increased the farming to the point where people felt the need to voice their opinion that they would rather buy the items than farm for them. Then they give us the option to spend money to completely by pass the farming whilst attempting to play it off a a decision that benefits us, the players, as something that we have wanted all along.

 

I know it might be exaggerating it a lot but the phrase "led like sheep to the slaughter" is a fairly apt saying for this particular phenomenon for those who can see it for what it really is.

 

I'm at the end of my tether and thoroughly regretting spending a penny on this game.

[Luminati07]

My biggest gripe about Prime trading right now is that Prime weapons are now cheaper to obtain for platinum than their normal counterparts are; they really shot themselves in the foot with that one. The "THE WARFRAME MARKET IS A JOKE AND ACTIVELY DISCOURAGES IMPULSE PURCHASES (UPDATED, INCLUDES SOLUTION TO INSTALLED CATALYSTS/WEAPON SLOT ON WEAPONS)" thread is more relevant than ever.

I had a feeling that would be the case.

 

The stupid just gets stupider.

People can argue that nobody buys Market weapons anyway, but that's such a lazy argument for this.

 

Why should I be able to get a superior weapon for less plat than its normal counterpart?

I shouldn't. That should never have happened.

 

It really does feel like DE didn't even think this through for more than half an hour.

 

If Prime trading is here to stay (which I @(*()$ hope not), it's time for the market to be completely overhauled.

[LukeAura]

Prime trading. Just. No. 
I could not agree more about this. 
Maybe. Just. Maaaaaaybe. If it was just prime part of a weapon for another prime part of that weapon, or even just scrap the prime restriction and of the same weapon restriction. Weapon part for weapon part(Yoohoo, rng-defied Detronless[or Miterless, I guess, maybe, yeah Miterless isn't a thing no one wants that bad enough or has to jump through as many hoops...] souls I'm referring to you here.) that would make much more sense as to fixing the problem without invalidating the purpose of primes. 

I know not everyone is going to enjoy a token system, a lot of people are against it. But to say they'd rather have the rng addled mess we have, or prime trading over tokens is just inconceivable, there is no reasonable way what they've implemented to fix the rng issue makes more sense than a token system.

And their reason is that they don't want a new currency? Well. 
I suppose they didn't want to add Oxium, which as a unique resource farmable from one single enemy I think qualifies it as its own currency, either but that happened. And Derelict coordinates, which were implemented well after Token Systems had been brought up, those too they're currencies. And let's not forget about dragon keys which can be considered their own currency for exclusive use in the black vault market. Oh, and mods became a currency when they introduced trading. Yup, totally did not want to make any more currencies. 

And really, prime trading took months to figure out? Months?! That was suggested months ago as an idea. And then the laziest implementation of it was made. No restrictions at all. It's like they decided last week to do it and slapped it together without even theorying about the potential consequences. 

I'm pretty mad about this right now. I do apologize. 
I'm also pretty pissed they gave people a four hour window to exploit the Steel Charge to legendary mod conversion. 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I like prime part trading. I really do. It gives me easy plat, I've earned roughly 300, maybe 400 already.

 

BUT.

 

It completely demeans primes, both the work to acquire them, and the fact that it was one of the few things you had to actually play to acquire, and moves DE a step closer to the "But you can buy/trade for the primes, so all drop rates should be fine!", which should be a big fear for everyone. Not only do we no longer have dataminers to keep DE honest with the drop rates, but now they can hide behind trading as their solution.

 

I honestly hope it goes away, despite how much good it's done for me personally. Removing it potentially future proofs against problems that would otherwise plague us.

[LukeAura]

I just thought of something concerning the legendary cores. 
Get out your tinfoil hats people. 
Serration, Hornet Strike, two rank 10 mods people have argued over for a long time as unbalancing the game, that players have spent lots of; platinum, in game hours, cores, and credits on to max. 
Steel Charge recently became a mod all too suspiciously like that. And then got nerfed back and then compensated by legendary cores. 
I will let you all connect the dots as to what this could mean. 
 

[Luminati07]

I just thought of something concerning the legendary cores. 

Get out your tinfoil hats people. 

Serration, Hornet Strike, two rank 10 mods people have argued over for a long time as unbalancing the game, that players have spent lots of; platinum, in game hours, cores, and credits on to max. 

Steel Charge recently became a mod all too suspiciously like that. And then got nerfed back and then compensated by legendary cores. 

I will let you all connect the dots as to what this could mean. 

 

Not a farfetched theory, to be honest.

 

So many people have expressed displeasure in rare 10 mods, and how much of a joke they are to level up.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if DE's latest band-aid was to give players the opportunity to instantly bypass this content.

 

What makes me laugh at this, is that when Steve was questioned about rare 10 mods on a Livestream, his answer was "These are the kinds of mods that should take a long time to level up. They are aimed at players who have been here for a long time"

Well, may as well throw that out the @(*()$ window.

 

DE just gave players the chance to instantly level up any mod they had.

Anyone could have bought some plat, stocked up on Steel Charge mods and gone to town on rare 10 mods.

 

Prime trading. Just. No. 

I could not agree more about this. 

Maybe. Just. Maaaaaaybe. If it was just prime part of a weapon for another prime part of that weapon, or even just scrap the prime restriction and of the same weapon restriction. Weapon part for weapon part(Yoohoo, rng-defied Detronless[or Miterless, I guess, maybe, yeah Miterless isn't a thing no one wants that bad enough or has to jump through as many hoops...] souls I'm referring to you here.) that would make much more sense as to fixing the problem without invalidating the purpose of primes. 

I know not everyone is going to enjoy a token system, a lot of people are against it. But to say they'd rather have the rng addled mess we have, or prime trading over tokens is just inconceivable, there is no reasonable way what they've implemented to fix the rng issue makes more sense than a token system.

And their reason is that they don't want a new currency? Well. 

I suppose they didn't want to add Oxium, which as a unique resource farmable from one single enemy I think qualifies it as its own currency, either but that happened. And Derelict coordinates, which were implemented well after Token Systems had been brought up, those too they're currencies. And let's not forget about dragon keys which can be considered their own currency for exclusive use in the black vault market. Oh, and mods became a currency when they introduced trading. Yup, totally did not want to make any more currencies. 

And really, prime trading took months to figure out? Months?! That was suggested months ago as an idea. And then the laziest implementation of it was made. No restrictions at all. It's like they decided last week to do it and slapped it together without even theorying about the potential consequences. 

I'm pretty mad about this right now. I do apologize. 

I'm also pretty &!$$ed they gave people a four hour window to exploit the Steel Charge to legendary mod conversion. 

+10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

I always thought the token system was one where so much xp would be used in the accrual of tokens - the currency used to get them is your hard work, i.e. xp.

(*x) xp = 1 token

5 token = Braton Prime blueprint

10 token = Orthos Prime blade

 

Etc. You guys and DE can work the numbers out, but you get the general idea. Plus, if there are hubs in future, we could use those token to redeem stuff at a vendor or something. Tokens cannot be bought or sold between players, only redeemed for Prime parts. Excess tokens can be redeemed for a certain amount of in-game creds, fusion cores or mods.

Those are my ideas to make the token-system a viable option.

[LukeAura]

+10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

I most humbly accept such pluses. 

[EversorMetus]

Left a couple of months ago. Return to see there are still no endgames or significant improvements. PoE act 4 expansion March 5 so see you guys in solar rails update.

Edit: When i saw the Prime trading and Legendary core i was like "Oh joy look now we can skip the only endgame this game has".

Edited February 20, 2014 by EversorMetus

[OniDax]

Left a couple of months ago. Return to see there are still no endgames or significant improvements. PoE act 4 expansion March 3 so see you guys in solar rails update.

Edit: When i saw the Prime trading and Legendary core i was like "Oh joy look now we can skip the only endgame this game has".

 

I guess I understand the argument of no Prime trading from the perspective of it being a sort of endgame thing for veteran players who have "beaten" the game. But then again, the Voids were never only available to those players. Maybe if they'd tie prime stuff to mastery rank, then it'd be an appropriate endgame, but Prime stuff isn't really endgame so...

[marelooke]

The reason for prime trading is that people only trade with plat (which imho should never have been an option to begin with), so they assume more plat will be bought by impatient people that want their goodies now.

 

This successfully devalues the regular version of these warframes and the value of actually getting Prime gear (and as the OP rightfully remarks, as such it subverts the entire idea of Prime gear).

It also successfully alienates a big part of their userbase by introducing a form of Pay2Win into the game (it's basically like being able to buy the highest tier raid gear in say, World of Warcraft so I think this is a fair comparison)

[OniDax]

The reason for prime trading is that people only trade with plat (which imho should never have been an option to begin with), so they assume more plat will be bought by impatient people that want their goodies now.

 

This successfully devalues the regular version of these warframes and the value of actually getting Prime gear (and as the OP rightfully remarks, as such it subverts the entire idea of Prime gear).

It also successfully alienates a big part of their userbase by introducing a form of Pay2Win into the game (it's basically like being able to buy the highest tier raid gear in say, World of Warcraft so I think this is a fair comparison)

 

I will admit that too much of this game is dependent on real money (is DE struggling this much to bring in funding for this game?). And as much as I hate excessive grinding, there needs to be more incentive on playing the game, using the in-game credits, rather than paying for everything (EVERY item should have both a credit cost and a platinum cost, and there should be no random number generator affecting things, as we've seen this fail). I'd say, if they'd apply a tax on trading prime stuff the way there was a huge tax on trading legendary cores, if they'd restrict the Void to a certain mastery rank/warframe rank, if they'd introduce some Void matchmaking, and if they wouldn't have clan-dependent features in the game, you just might see some more people playing the game. Matchmaking because it'd be specific to "veteran" or experienced players, fulfilling a sort of endgame, but matching them up instead of requiring invites which you may not always get, and it'd encourage team work instead of solo grinding.

[Methanoid]

Left a couple of months ago. Return to see there are still no endgames or significant improvements. PoE act 4 expansion March 3 so see you guys in solar rails update.

Edit: When i saw the Prime trading and Legendary core i was like "Oh joy look now we can skip the only endgame this game has".

 

oh i missed that news, cheers for the update, should have a full act+ now instead of partial, sweet.

[Metalbawkses]

Honestly this post should be shoved straight into DE's face. Their plat pricing feels like they just put up a dart board to decide how much a weapon / warframe would cost. I noticed how DE's trying to make cheap play time by making the game more tedious, sure i don't have to play this game, but im playing because i loved this game, i bought my founders because i want to help warframe grow as a whole, only to see that DE no longer cares about how the player feels. Sure they acknowledge, but do they act accordingly? No. Two wrongs doesn't make a right, Using RNG to fix RNG just doesn't work. Shieldon's idea of dumping all the trash keys to OD and survival is not working at all. Sure that sounds great on the post, but when you're in game, you realize that it didn't fix anything, OD is nothing more than a landfill now. The lack of communication doesn't help either, when the invasion reward was reduced, many players have no idea, why? Because the patch note did a terrible job of explaining it. New enemy strategy, what does that even mean? Why cant you just give us the number instead? Why not just  do: 

Invasion battle pay has been lowered from 50,000 to 25,000 and 35,000

Rare Resources battle pay has been reduced from 3 to 1

Infestation Credit has been lowered from 30,000 to 10,000.

[Luminati07]

Hooray for a new edit. Though, it's a short one.

 

 

Honestly this post should be shoved straight into DE's face.

Apart from Jaywalker's post on page...3 or something (which had nothing to do with the actual OP), there hasn't been a public acknowledgement by DE

 

The only ones were in a PM with Rebecca, and Megan locking V1 for it being "derailed". That "derail" was literally for 4 posts after 18 pages of discussion. Wasn't even a heavy derail either.

[Inez]

Nugget has been bitter a long time. This is nothing new.

To address some of your issues:

1. If you think plat prices are too high, don't buy it. Seems a simple to solve issue. WIth mod and prime trading making plat in game is easier than ever. As far as lore, go read a book. Pick any random sci-fi book from your local bookstore. It will have better lore than any videogame you have ever played.

2. I agree that their livestreams are largely a waste of time, but they do occasionally answer a question or let us know what's coming in the future.

3. Cedric was a drama queen. Not saying he didn't do good things for the community, but when he got upset he went WAY overboard taking DE's responses to him as personal insults.

4. They gave out free plat. Money talks.

5. You complain about farming, but DE just shortened the Void grind. Some people are never happy. And bosses drop complete sets of bps in far less time then they used to.

6. Utterly useless mods - Completely agree with you on this. While its fun to be a completionist and collect everything, these useless mods should be rares.

7. This game has incredible weapon variety. I too come from UT and Warframe has much greater variety than UT. This isn't even an opinion, its an observable fact. As far as melee, you know melee 2.0 is coming, why don't you save your complaints for then.

8. Since you're new to videogames, I'll spell it out for you: people tend to min/max in videogames going for the "best" builds. The fact that you think this is unique to Warframe is bizarre. You still have the option to not min/max.

9. You outright lied in the Design Council section, so not even gonna bother responding.

10. A lot of people consider the art in this game to be one of its strongest points. Not sure why a livestream covering this bothers you.

15. It sounds like you don't even play the game much. Complaining about hobbled and extinguished keys? Really? There are very simple solutions to 100% negate the effects of these keys. Its pretty apparent you wrote this section without actually even setting foot in an Orokin Derelict. Your feedback is not appreciated.

16. They made it much easier with legendary fusion cores. But my guess is that now you're whining about Legendary Fusion cores somewhere on the forums. Feel free to prove me wrong.

17. DE encrypting the loot tables was straight up evil. But to be fair, I've had no problems farming anything up since then (save the 'rare uncommons').

27. Yup, turns out I was right about Legendary Fusion Cores.

No offense, but you come off someone who doesn't play the game, but enjoys mindlessly repeating what you read in other threads. We have enough people in the forums already commenting on stuff they have no experience with.

[Nickeltoe]

Ive kept up with this post for a while.  I can whole heartily agree with just about everything you said.

 

Game is completely derailed after this legendary core deal.

 

Now they are coming out with more.  It is either because every junk mod is now going to be rank 10 years of farming or they are just so out of touch with their game and quick fame that they do not know anything about their player base.  Folks for so long have had to set personal goals in this game, leveling up rank 10 mods was all someone like me who started 10 minutes after closed beta ended had left to look forward to.  That and Exclusives (I have all but 2), Legendary cores and mods/gear that are completely locked off from folks that are actually useful in a game with so much mediocre filler content is just to name a few things causing the game to go south, but it is like every month they feel the need to "stick it" to the veterans and playerbase in general.

 

Well here is hoping someone on their team turns the game on without stacking max items on themselves and tries to accomplish anything in game for more than an hour.  Testing Mercury over and over again with their ideas does not seem to be working.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Nickeltoe

[Luminati07]

Nugget has been bitter a long time. This is nothing new.

To address some of your issues:

1. If you think plat prices are too high, don't buy it. Seems a simple to solve issue. WIth mod and prime trading making plat in game is easier than ever. As far as lore, go read a book. Pick any random sci-fi book from your local bookstore. It will have better lore than any videogame you have ever played.

 

If the price is high, don't buy it. That is one of the laziest attitudes I have ever seen

3. Cedric was a drama queen. Not saying he didn't do good things for the community, but when he got upset he went WAY overboard taking DE's responses to him as personal insults.

 

All personal opinion, really. He did a lot for the community. Being told that he is in no place to put forth suggestions because he "does not work in the industry" was a joke

4. They gave out free plat. Money talks.

5. You complain about farming, but DE just shortened the Void grind. Some people are never happy. And bosses drop complete sets of bps in far less time then they used to.

 

They didn't just shorten the void grind. They outright removed it, which was stupid. They should have put out a concrete solution, not given players the ability to instantly bypass what little content Warframe has. I'm all for reducing grind, but DE did not handle this right at all

7. This game has incredible weapon variety. I too come from UT and Warframe has much greater variety than UT. This isn't even an opinion, its an observable fact. As far as melee, you know melee 2.0 is coming, why don't you save your complaints for then.

 

No. No it does not. There are over 120 weapons in the game. ~10 of those are unique. The rest are as generic as they come. In regards to melee 2.0, look at the post date of my thread. I had no details of melee 2.0 at that point

8. Since you're new to videogames, I'll spell it out for you: people tend to min/max in videogames going for the "best" builds. The fact that you think this is unique to Warframe is bizarre. You still have the option to not min/max.

 

I never said that min/maxing was unique to Warframe. However, Warframe has no viable choice other than mix/maxing. Other games at least have viable builds that offer an alternative. Warframe does not

9. You outright lied in the Design Council section, so not even gonna bother responding.

 

Not a single word in that section was a lie. Try again

10. A lot of people consider the art in this game to be one of its strongest points. Not sure why a livestream covering this bothers you.

 

It bothered me because prior to the livestream, the forums were in utter chaos (much like they are right now, but worse), players were expecting answers in regards to the problems, not art.

15. It sounds like you don't even play the game much. Complaining about hobbled and extinguished keys? Really? There are very simple solutions to 100% negate the effects of these keys. Its pretty apparent you wrote this section without actually even setting foot in an Orokin Derelict. Your feedback is not appreciated.

 

Your shortsightedness is not appreciated. I wrote that section after doing a few Vault runs when they were new. Plenty of people were complaining about them, the only reason they still aren't, is because people have forgotten.

16. They made it much easier with legendary fusion cores. But my guess is that now you're whining about Legendary Fusion cores somewhere on the forums. Feel free to prove me wrong.

 

No S#&$ I'm "whining" about these cores. They are @(*()$ horrible

27. Yup, turns out I was right about Legendary Fusion Cores.

 

Yes you were. If DE releases something I don't agree with, I'll talk about it. If they release something I do agree with, I'll praise it.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

snip

1. This solves absolutely nothing. DE has shown they don't pay attention to what sells in the market, simply if they're making plat sales.

3. I disagree about cedric being a "drama queen". According to him they more or less brushed him off and told him something along the lines of "Don't like it, leave." (or something, I'd have to read his open letter again to remember exactly what he said)

5. Difference between skipping content and reducing grind.

7. Make all the numbers the same on the assault rifles. What changed? What's the difference? Some are projectiles, some aren't, and that's about as deep as it gets.

9. How so? As a DC member I've seen a couple threads of them saying they're working on X or Y and one poll about sound.

10. Personally the art livestream I remember was right after a huge debacle on the forums and it felt like they were using the art team to avoid talking about the debacle with main/usual devs.

 

If nothing else, do explain how he lied about the DC, every other DC member I've talked to says the same thing. "It's pointless, we get "sneak peaks" shortly before they get leaked, and maybe a useless vote." (in a nutshell)

[Althix]

i just wanna point out two things Inez.

 

Platinum is ingame currency introduced by DE. which means value of this currency is zero. So don't be silly about this "money talks" thing.

 

Legendary Core. You can level any mod in this game by using that core. Given that you had steel charge of rank 6. So months ago i leveled my second Heavy caliber for sentinel to max. It took 3 days of grinding. 1.4m credits and 1300 cores of all kinds. But as it now you can level r10 mod for a price of u6 mod.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Althix

[victor_victory]

I feel the same way. But mainly because the negativity that is flowing around this forum. It is depressing and makes me love this game lesser as days goes............

[TunaMayo]

I feel the same way. But mainly because the negativity that is flowing around this forum. It is depressing and makes me love this game lesser as days goes............

This is because the content that DE release every update is simple a candle that burns bright and fast.

DE either need to come out with some slow burning, appealing content, or drastically change the game in some manner.

As lovely as melee 2.0 sounds, I think it will have the same effect as damage 2.0 and the leader units.

New walls dumped ontop of old foundations do not make a more stable house. It's the foundations of the game that should be next on the chopping block.