I Find Myself Becoming More And More Bitter As The Days Progress

[Freelancer27]

This is humorously large, but I can't personally find your ideas disagreeable since it has been passed on for weeks, months or even a year now. 

 

So... +1 for a well worked and spent response, in honor of the former community mod, Ced23Ric's and for the rest of the community moderators who are working today, Letter13, Blatantfool, *Whatshisnameinwhichitendforgetatsometime* and the others, just to read and understand every feedback, discussion and crazy banters we've been pulling out since the day this forum of Warframe was made.

 

So yeah. :3

[Luminati07]

Added a short paragraph about the Harvester. Up to 22 edits so far. :D

[bejuizb]

I don't even bother farming parts now. I just do a few T3s, get formas and then try to max out everything that I have. Like you said, 12 is the last chance.

[Zantiago]

I personally enjoy RNG.
Yeah, it makes it a long grind, or a short one.
Depending on ones luck.

 

Take two people for instance, grinding for the same thing. One get's it after 3 runs, and the other after 20runs.
I can bet you that the person who worked through 20runs will love whatever he finally got, a lot more than the one who merely did three runs.

 

This might just be wild guessing and speculation, but I honestly think that people wanting less to do, when the game already is struggling with content is the thing that's dragging the game down, just as much as the common bugs and such are.
People want to do less for their items, be that frames, weapons and everything else, and that part of the gaming communities are ruining games all across the world. Sorry ,but it's true. Saying it isn't, is basically just lieing to yourself.
 

[Tazmanyak]

"For the last couple of weeks, I've just been sitting back and laughing at failure after failure.

Overcomplicating the damage system

Infested being removed

Cicero Crisis

Harvester"

+1, i totally agree as i feel the same way.

I'm really sad to see how DE could in a few weeks time, almost totally make a game i loved a game i no longer play.

[Amorphous_Sofa]

Audiobook pl0x.

 

But naw, I will read this when I have a nice chunk of time

[RejectionOfFate]

The main point of Damage 2.0 has been forgotten, by this time.

To remove the ridiculous armor scaling.

What we get now? Enemies with ridiculous Health scaling, and don't forget to bring the right weapons with the correct moves to defeat the Elite Four... I mean each faction. And their own separate weaknesses per enemy type now.

 

Damage 2.0.1 Was its best implementation. It was fun. It was enjoyable. Melee was fun to use.  Weapons without AP or AI were viable. Now? Not so much.

 

Harvester... do not get me started.

Chance to spawn.

Chance to drop an item.

Chance to drop 1/3 Parts.

 

Hell no.

[f3llyn]

I personally enjoy RNG.

Yeah, it makes it a long grind, or a short one.

Depending on ones luck.

 

Take two people for instance, grinding for the same thing. One get's it after 3 runs, and the other after 20runs.

I can bet you that the person who worked through 20runs will love whatever he finally got, a lot more than the one who merely did three runs.

 

This might just be wild guessing and speculation, but I honestly think that people wanting less to do, when the game already is struggling with content is the thing that's dragging the game down, just as much as the common bugs and such are.

People want to do less for their items, be that frames, weapons and everything else, and that part of the gaming communities are ruining games all across the world. Sorry ,but it's true. Saying it isn't, is basically just lieing to yourself.

 

 

I disagree with this completely. If someone has to do 10 times the missions to get a reward than a person who took 3 missions to get the same thing they are more likely to become bitter and turn away from the game completely. That is only frustrating and I don't get how anyone can misconstrue this as being fun. How is it fun to see a person driving their new hot rod Warframe while you're still grinding away for just the blueprint? All the while they're talking about how awesome the new hotness is? It's not fun, it's just annoying.

 

This is the common argument used by people who want to see RNG remain in place because they are masochists*** or something. If we don't like RNG then we clearly want things to be easy mode and that's just not true. We want consistency and we want fun and that is all. None of that says you have to remove RNG or the grind entirely.

 

***This is the definition I'm using for the word masochist: A willingness or tendency to subject oneself to unpleasant or trying experiences.

Edited January 3, 2014 by f3llyn

[Amorphous_Sofa]

For me, Update 12 is going to be the last chance.

 

Last chance for what? You have a laundry list of issues that cannot possibly be solved in that timescale so which solutions would make update 12 a success for you? As for me, I am riding this whole thing out; A couple of months on, a couple off and seeing where it will end up. That is what this game is to me, even after putting some money down, not anywhere near as much as a founders mind you.

 

EDIT: I cheated a little with the quote, I'm not going to quote your original post as I just cant sift through all that stuff to the bit I want

Edited January 2, 2014 by Amorphous_Sofa

[Luminati07]

Last chance for what? You have a laundry list of issues that cannot possibly be solved in that timescale so which solutions would make update 12 a success for you? As for me, I am riding this whole thing out; A couple of months on, a couple off and seeing where it will end up. That is what this game is to me, even after putting some money down, not anywhere near as much as a founders mind you.

 

EDIT: I cheated a little with the quote, I'm not going to quote your original post as I just cant sift through all that stuff to the bit I want

Last chance for DE to do something that is even remotely interesting.

 

They don't need to fix ever single little problem. 

Some worthwhile content.

Something that isn't RNG

Some worthwhile content that isn't RNG.

Some endgame.

 

I've "ridden this thing out" for months now, and I keep on telling myself that it will get better.

But, after DE constantly says they're going to lessen RNG, then come up with S#&$ like the Harvester, I'm not willing to "ride it out" any longer.

[Katakuna]

So long as we're on the subject of Update 12, I suppose I'll throw down my own ultimatum: U12 is DE's last chance to show me that they actually understand our concerns and are taking the necessary steps towards fixing at least a smidget of these major issues that have been around for months that have been highlighted here and in the Feedback subforum.  

 

For example: Damage 2.0 was, initially, a fine step in that direction, more or less addressing the underlying issue that made most weapons useless in the first place, but has since been made needlessly complex while worsening armor scaling to the best of my knowledge.  DE tossing armor scaling in the bin entirely and replacing it with something like ME3's approach to armor coupled with the release of Melee 2.0 (though that's subject to change, given how little we know about it) would make U12 a firm success, in my opinion.  So long as they don't RNG something up even more.

 

Really, the only reason I haven't signed off the forums and uninstalled the game is because of the potential it has.

[Althix]

 then come up with S#&$ like the Harvester

even grineers are agree.

[Zantiago]

I disagree with this completely. If someone has to do 10 times the missions to get a reward than a person who took 3 missions to get the same thing they are more likely to become bitter and turn away from the game completely. That is only frustrating and I don't get how anyone can misconstrue this as being fun.

 

"How is it fun to see a person driving their new hot rod Warframe while you're still grinding away for just the blueprint? All the while they're talking about how awesome the new hotness is? It's not fun, it's just annoying."

 

This is the common argument against people who want to see RNG remain in place because they are masochists*** or something. If we don't like RNG then we clearly want things to be easy mode and that's just not true. We want consistency and we want fun and that is all. None of that says you have to remove RNG or the grind entirely.

 

***This is the definition I'm using for the word masochist: A willingness or tendency to subject oneself to unpleasant or trying experiences.

Whatever you say mate.

You take words out of context, and are putting jealousy into something that doesn't need it.

The Bolded part in your text happens anywhere and every single day regardless of it being a community for gamers, real life friend or anything in between. I said I don't hate RNG, but read the part about 20 runs to complete something.

I'm fully aware that people have done hundreds of runs to get something they wanted, that I absolutely don't agree with.

But that doesn't mean RNG is all bad, but it's the inconsistent part of WF's RNG that is just absurd.

I even have a friend who's just a mod collector, and even if there's what? 20 corrupted mods to get, he's done more than 200vault runs without even seing one Corrupted Charge.

Oh well, no point beating a dead horse about this anyhow as it doesn't seem like DE plans to do anything about RNG.

"We'll do something about it" 3-5 updates later it's just as bad or worse and their brilliant New strategy to remove some rng is implementing RNG ontop of RNG.

I get that 'Yo dawg so I heard you like RNG'-meme circling around my head, and it's moore likely to get me to do tell people not to bother even looking at this game than actually inviting them to try it out.

But enough ranting, I have some prime parts I "need" to farm..

 

[kubbi]

I have read everything including the new part about the harvester. Just did't post before.

I agree with everything. Excellent points are made *double thumbs up*

[ss4chris]

So long as we're on the subject of Update 12, I suppose I'll throw down my own ultimatum: U12 is DE's last chance to show me that they actually understand our concerns and are taking the necessary steps towards fixing at least a smidget of these major issues that have been around for months that have been highlighted here and in the Feedback subforum.  

 

For example: Damage 2.0 was, initially, a fine step in that direction, more or less addressing the underlying issue that made most weapons useless in the first place, but has since been made needlessly complex while worsening armor scaling to the best of my knowledge.  DE tossing armor scaling in the bin entirely and replacing it with something like ME3's approach to armor coupled with the release of Melee 2.0 (though that's subject to change, given how little we know about it) would make U12 a firm success, in my opinion.  So long as they don't RNG something up even more.

 

Really, the only reason I haven't signed off the forums and uninstalled the game is because of the potential it has.

so are you going to quit if if U12 doesnt deliver what you want?

[Brahmastra]

For me, Update 12 is going to be the last chance.

 

We'll see about that! The ride never ends brother!

 

Nice harvester post though.

[DeltaF0rce]

I personally enjoy RNG.

Yeah, it makes it a long grind, or a short one.

Depending on ones luck.

 

Take two people for instance, grinding for the same thing. One get's it after 3 runs, and the other after 20runs.

I can bet you that the person who worked through 20runs will love whatever he finally got, a lot more than the one who merely did three runs.

 

This might just be wild guessing and speculation, but I honestly think that people wanting less to do, when the game already is struggling with content is the thing that's dragging the game down, just as much as the common bugs and such are.

People want to do less for their items, be that frames, weapons and everything else, and that part of the gaming communities are ruining games all across the world. Sorry ,but it's true. Saying it isn't, is basically just lieing to yourself.

 

 

You don't make sense at all.

 

Blaming the players for not liking excessive RNG as a "substitute" for content. What the f*** is wrong with you?

 

As you say yourself you are just making wild guesses and speculations. Nothing else.

[Katakuna]

so are you going to quit if if U12 doesnt deliver what you want?

 

Yes.  Was I unclear?

[Zantiago]

You don't make sense at all.

 

Blaming the players for not liking excessive RNG as a "substitute" for content. What the f*** is wrong with you?

 

As you say yourself you are just making wild guesses and speculations. Nothing else.

And you're just as @(*()$ slow as everyone else.

Do you stop to comment on every post you don't like? or do you take the time to finnish a thread before jumping to accusations which are borderline judgemental, pretty much the same as what I said in my post. And I knew I was going to get hate for it. People just don't like having to do anything, and get everything served on a silver platter. And you little boy just proved my point while trying to insult me.

Impressive.

What's your next trick?

Could you perhaps try and make a comment without making your own conclusions about a post you read that you clearly didn't understand?

You see, I'd actually pay to see that.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

People just don't like having to do anything, and get everything served on a silver platter.

Of course you're gonna get flak for it, you just insulted everyone on one side of an argument because you don't even understand their complaint.

 

It's fine having to work for something.

It's not fine when that something is behind three RNG walls.

[AbsolutTalent]

I have been checking in on your thread for awhile now nugget. From the start, you had good points, clear and concise and well thought out. But lately seems a lot more are learning towards evangelism (relaying a set of info with goals of conversion to ones cause) with straight up bashing thrown in.

 

I am not going to disagree with what you have brought up, because I DO agree with it. I just believe that HOW it was brought up makes you lose some credibility. The last edit, Harvester, is a big example of this.

 

That said, yes RNG is a BIG issue with this game, among others. And if we didnt have RNG, then there is no game. RNG is the only thing containing whatever little "end game" there is.

 

We can go layer by layer what is offered in this game

 

-Unlock every mission on the star map (which, unless you are solo, isnt very hard to accomplish)

-Do each OD mission once to see what its like (can always hitch a ride with a group in Recruiting)

-Do each Void mission once to see what its like (hitch a ride like above)

 

There, thats it. You just beat the game

now you have the post-game collections. Thats all it is. Keep running the above to get the below for no other reason than to "have"

 

-Collect any other warframes

-Collect any other weapons

-Collect any other sentinels

-Collect any other mods

-Raise your mastery level (only reward is an extra 2 deployed extractors)

 

Seems like a pretty basic game, no? So RNG is put in place as a roadblock to stop people from completing the post-game so fast and give them even more to complain about when they realize how empty the game is . While we do need to have the RNG addressed, the BIGGER issue at hand is the game missions and goals. Each mission shares the same goal, while having a 2nd (and sometimes 3rd) goal.

 

All missions Goal = Kill the bad guys

2nd goal = Defend this location (defense, mobile defense), Get this person (Capture, rescue, Assassination), destroy this (sabotage, deception), collect that (survival, spy)

3rd goal = Capture, rescue, collect, destroy..... depending on Lotus's mood

 

The new escort mission, when available, will be included in the "defend this location goal since you are defending the robot lotus

 

Thats a total of 4 different game modes. How long can you play the same 4 gamemodes and not get tired of it?

 

Simply put, there isnt enough to this game so RNG is put in place to extend it.

[Luminati07]

I have been checking in on your thread for awhile now nugget. From the start, you had good points, clear and concise and well thought out. But lately seems a lot more are learning towards evangelism (relaying a set of info with goals of conversion to ones cause) with straight up bashing thrown in.

 

I am not going to disagree with what you have brought up, because I DO agree with it. I just believe that HOW it was brought up makes you lose some credibility. The last edit, Harvester, is a big example of this.

 

Simply put, there isnt enough to this game so RNG is put in place to extend it.

Don't get me wrong, even I agree that my posts are becoming less and less thought out.

 

It goes back to the original thread title "I find myself become more and more bitter as the days progress". That's exactly what is happening again.

 

Don't worry, I've noticed that my edits are becoming less thought out and more "rant-ey". Why?  Because I've written thousands and thousands of words in countless threads to DE with solutions and feedback, and it's gone absolutely nowhere.

 

You're absolutely right, though. RNG is being used to extend the "life" of the game.

 

*Edit*

I'm actually working on another edit right now that's a little better phrased/thought out. Similar to some of my older ones.

 

Done.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Nugget_

[Zantiago]

Of course you're gonna get flak for it, you just insulted everyone on one side of an argument because you don't even understand their complaint.

 

It's fine having to work for something.

It's not fine when that something is behind three RNG walls.

I completely agree with what you're saying.

And I did make that point above aswell. But people tunnel vision to much on the bad, and refuses to let one thing slide to continue an argument.

And I don't care in the slightest what people think of me, as I know I don't have to follow a mainstream route when speaking my mind.

Like so many others do, and that's true, wether we like it or not.

 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

And I did make that point above aswell. But people tunnel vision to much on the bad, and refuses to let one thing slide to continue an argument.

But that was literally your entire argument. Your entire post was saying "Those who do not like layered RNG farming just want everything for free!" and then proceeded to say (and I quote) "Sorry ,but it's true. Saying it isn't, is basically just lieing to yourself."

 

Again, you don't even understand the complaints judging by the quoted post.

Edited January 3, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[ss4chris]

Yes.  Was I unclear?

don't trip on your way out. players come and go.