Split Flight does not work on Artimis Bow?!?!

[ZoneDymo]

Fix that pls, its a bow, it should work and could be pretty hilarious.

[yles9056]

It's confirmed that it's intended, but I have no idea why. I can understand why it's not allowed on Lenz and Kuva Bramma, but Ivara's Artimis Bow is far from OP even with augment mod.

[Drachnyn]

The current reasoning for split flights not working on artemis bow is that it would be too powerful on bramma and lenz, no reasons were given for artemis or crossbows.

[CloudATL]

Besides, Artemis Bow still displays a global status chance (20% for 7 arrows) whereas the Cernos is now a status/projectile weapon. Logic ? Havn't found yet. Seems like we're gonna have to keep on playing with our 62.5% crit chance 20% status chance artemis as only viable build for both augmented and non augmented set ups.

[TheLexiConArtist]

Artemis Bow is no more of an 'AOE weapon' naturally than the Cernos Prime, it just has a higher multishot base. Without Split Flights, 100% Strength Artemis Bow deals 268% damage output of the Cernos Prime. After Split Flights only usable on Cernos but not Artemis, Artemis Bow deals 120% the damage output of Cernos Prime using Split Flights.

It's clear to me that DE is using the augment as a scapegoat for why Artemis can't use the mod.

So now, not only does Artemis Bow have a literal nerf you pay for in that awful augment, it's actively hindering players who don't opt into it.

 

Concentrated Arrow is terrible, it destroys your output if you don't land the headshots, and the implicit accuracy reduction of Split Flights would almost completely prevent those headshots from landing at anything but point blank range anyway.

Assuming that you can even keep the stacks going with an explosive bow. If it was doing its job, you'd have nothing else nearby to shoot at using the active Split Flights buff before it expires!

Remove/rework the S#&$ty augment and give us Split Flights for natural Artemis.

Edited April 1, 2020 by TheLexiConArtist

[CloudATL]

Bumping this, as the issue's not been adressed yet. 2 more skins released on Ivara, and we still want that mod :D

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Split Flights, from its reveal months ago, seemed to suggest that it was designed for automatic crossbows.

Here we are now, and it can’t be used on Attica, Nagantaka, and Zhuge/Prime. 

I have a sneaking suspicion that because of Zhuge Prime’s innate perk Split Flights was made unusable for crossbows entirely. Meaning if the bow/crossbow’s premise was an explosive weapon, it shouldn’t be used with Split Flights because of balance issues. Mutalist Cernos was given a pass imo because even if it is an AoE weapon, the DoT’s base damage is minuscule that the additional multi-shot wouldn’t be a crowd-clearer.

Quite honestly, this is bollocks. Crossbows should be able to use Split Flights since they’re designed to be spray&pray weapons. Why they became exempt from using the mod is very odd to me.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

On 2020-04-01 at 12:13 AM, TheLexiConArtist said:

Artemis Bow is no more of an 'AOE weapon' naturally than the Cernos Prime, it just has a higher multishot base. Without Split Flights, 100% Strength Artemis Bow deals 268% damage output of the Cernos Prime. After Split Flights only usable on Cernos but not Artemis, Artemis Bow deals 120% the damage output of Cernos Prime using Split Flights.

It's clear to me that DE is using the augment as a scapegoat for why Artemis can't use the mod.

So now, not only does Artemis Bow have a literal nerf you pay for in that awful augment, it's actively hindering players who don't opt into it.

 

Concentrated Arrow is terrible, it destroys your output if you don't land the headshots, and the implicit accuracy reduction of Split Flights would almost completely prevent those headshots from landing at anything but point blank range anyway.

Assuming that you can even keep the stacks going with an explosive bow. If it was doing its job, you'd have nothing else nearby to shoot at using the active Split Flights buff before it expires!

Remove/rework the S#&$ty augment and give us Split Flights for natural Artemis.

Except with Split Flights, you are outperforming every single bow in the game, this would make Artemis Bow way OP. In case you haven't realized, each arrow shot from Artemis Bow deals its own damage, they are not a percentage of the total shot. Firing one shot from the bow, say each arrow does 500 damage and 5 arrows come out in the shot, that is 2500 damage that one shot deals.

Don't get why people keep complaining about the augment. Ivara is stealth based, yet everybody acts like she should be frontline combat. Concentrated Arrow rewards patience, it seems like most of ya'll in this thread have none.

[CloudATL]

@(XB1)Rez090 "Except with split flights", please try a daikyu with a decent riven and you won't need split flights to outperform the artemis bow on 100% str. Sure you deal 5 arrows total damage, but you have 62.5% crit max, hence a third of your arrows won't get much damage at all. Also it costs energy so yea i want extra damage. Now Split Flights is out, we can't ignore it, make it available on Artemis otherwise it becomes irrelevant as regards other bows.

Also try Concentrated arrow with the recent aoe radial damage nerf, you'll find your patience awfully rewarded. Try Bramma with Hush mod, it won't even cost you energy and you'll be more efficient for an even easier gameplay. No need for things to be easy, but the harder the more rewarding you know ?

And also, try to play 70% of the content "patiently", and unless you play solo, you won't actually contribute a single bit to the mission. Also, this augment meant Ivara could finally clear rooms (nothing compared to Saryn, Volt and tons of others) from her kit only. Now it's irrelevant.

Hey, being steathy actually means you can frontline. But she can't clear anything with her kit, and Concentrated Arrow rewards Headshots, not stealth and patience. So.. now you try to keep up with your crew, and they clear it all by the time you shoot an arrow or two, that's a fact.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

18 hours ago, CloudATL said:

@(XB1)Rez090 "Except with split flights", please try a daikyu with a decent riven and you won't need split flights to outperform the artemis bow on 100% str. Sure you deal 5 arrows total damage, but you have 62.5% crit max, hence a third of your arrows won't get much damage at all. Also it costs energy so yea i want extra damage. Now Split Flights is out, we can't ignore it, make it available on Artemis otherwise it becomes irrelevant as regards other bows.

With this little statement, goes to show how you understand Artemis Bow's damage. With it fully kitted out (as in however much strength you put in, all damage mods, 90 elementals) you can throw out over 30k points of damage in a single firing. All the arrows are what your total damage is x however many arrows come out in your shot. Then times that with your crit multipler and you throw out even more when you crit. This is the plain as day reason why Split Flights is NOT coming to Artemis Bow. Kindly all please read the wiki to truly understand why what you want will not happen.

[CloudATL]

Il y a 3 heures, (XB1)Rez090 a dit :

With this little statement, goes to show how you understand Artemis Bow's damage. With it fully kitted out (as in however much strength you put in, all damage mods, 90 elementals) you can throw out over 30k points of damage in a single firing. All the arrows are what your total damage is x however many arrows come out in your shot. Then times that with your crit multipler and you throw out even more when you crit. This is the plain as day reason why Split Flights is NOT coming to Artemis Bow. Kindly all please read the wiki to truly understand why what you want will not happen.

Thx for the maths but you needn't bother, really. Why would you assume some havn't read the wiki ? I don't like that kind of talk, i feel offended. I don't know your experience of the game, you don't know mine, we can just both assume if we're going for these technical talks we do have some background. I hope i made it clear we're equal, and there's no mussle contest ; besides i don't do that much gym so i wouldn't dare hehe.

Now, here are a couple tests, to make my point with the slash argument, that actually depicts the reality of missions when we're in the fire of things :

Daikyu Build :

Révélation

Daikyu damage :

Révélation

Average of 3 slash procs when split flights is on. Each slash tick : Almost 10k. Notice I even got reload speed in the riven and vile acceleration for comfort, as i would in a normal mission.

Artemis build 1 and 2 (100% strength build) :

Révélation

Build 1 :

i didn't manage the picture right but basically hunter munition / faction mod / vigilante armaments

Build 2 :

and for this one 2x90 to make corrosive/faction mod

Artemis damage 1 and 2 :

Révélation

Build 1:

and to see the slash procs better :

After about 15 shots, it's an average of 4 slash procs. Each tick = 3818.

Build 2 :

Right now high armor targets are still the units we struggle with in missions, hence testing on grineer is the most relevant thing to do.

In the case that's imo as close as it gets to normal missions, even when i don't use P. Fast hands in artemis for extra dps and comfort, i totally deal less than Daikyu's damage. If Split Flights was on artemis, it would be a no match at close range. However at mid range, with the accuracy drawback, i feel like it's fair.

Edited April 8, 2020 by CloudATL

[(XBOX)Rez090]

@CloudATLWould like to point out two things in your "tests": 1. discount your daikyu riven, for testing purposes it doesn't count because of unique stats and only you have that particular riven and 2. you showed in no image what your ivara build is. Everytime you say 100% strength, that is default. Anybody running a build around artemis bow is putting at least one strength mod on.

[CloudATL]

I don't see why the riven wouldn't count... It has CD MS Reload Speed and neg impact. Sure those stats are my own, but they're not groll stats, nothing uncommon. And rivens are part of the game so they ought to be part of tests. I mean they're also part of what differenciates exalted from regular weapons, and they play a big part in the underpowering (? is it english?) of some exalted weapons (i don't say i wish for rivens on exalted, faaar from my thought).

About the strength in Ivara, the damage will go up in a linear pattern. You can multiply by Ability Strength*0.01 the damage i did in those tests. 155% strength ivara is 5,9k (=1,55*3,8k) slash ticks instead of the 3818 - same goes for non slash damage. Btw in the tests, the ivara was totally naked, only a p.flow.

If i wanna reach the same ticks as with this Daikyu, i need about 255% power strength. That's at least 2 mods to get that, and efficiency would be super low. So that's even more mods or arcanes to make up for it. Might as well make a tankier, more mobile, more dur/eff/range Ivara and run this Daikyu, no ?

Btw it also takes about 250% strength to one shot the gunner with the build 2.

[yles9056]

Artemis Bow deals a lot of damage to humanoid enemies with vertical shot on paper. But don't forget that arrows shot from Artemis Bow are widely spread. Most of the time, not all arrows will hit the same target meaning that the weapon is not dealing full damage to the target unless you stand close enough to the target. It's more obvious with higher multishot.

Edited April 8, 2020 by yles9056

[(XBOX)Rez090]

12 hours ago, CloudATL said:

I don't see why the riven wouldn't count... It has CD MS Reload Speed and neg impact. Sure those stats are my own, but they're not groll stats, nothing uncommon.

The problem is if I wanted to test, I can't because I don't have your riven with your stats on them. So my test can't and won't have the same results. How can I accurately test something if I can't fully duplicate all of the stats? This is the most basic principle of any scientific test.

[CloudATL]

why would you need to replicate the test ? The point's made now that's it ... There is a way, even if it's out of your reach (even though it's not cuz getting any MS/CD/neg daikyu is alright) to beat artemis bow damage with a daikyu even at 200% str.

Il y a 18 heures, yles9056 a dit :

Artemis Bow deals a lot of damage to humanoid enemies with vertical shot on paper. But don't forget that arrows shot from Artemis Bow are widely spread. Most of the time, not all arrows will hit the same target meaning that the weapon is not dealing full damage to the target unless you stand close enough to the target. It's more obvious with higher multishot.

yea that adds to the point as well, ty for pointing it out.