Solution to Current Unfolding Events: A "Council of Design"

[SpectreTheMediocre]

2 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Yes. I was playing along but apparently was too subtle. 

Yeah didn't get that my bad

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 minute ago, Miser_able said:

But how would people end up in such a group in the first place? Buying your way into it sounds kinda cheap, but they can't just let anybody in. 

maybe , i dont know de could in theory invite upstanding members or something like that?

naw

 

[Miser_able]

Just now, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

maybe , i dont know de could in theory invite upstanding members or something like that?

naw

 

Maybe. But what would make someone an upstanding member? Forum activity? Helping players in and out of game? Having a high reputation and lack of punishments on record? 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Just now, Miser_able said:

Maybe. But what would make someone an upstanding member? Forum activity? Helping players in and out of game? Having a high reputation and lack of punishments on record? 

oh then im out 

maybe they could actively do good posts and help develop threads or topics to proactively develop concepts, feedback and player help?

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

Just now, Miser_able said:

Maybe. But what would make someone an upstanding member? Forum activity? Helping players in and out of game? Having a high reputation and lack of punishments on record? 

Something like that. It's not like we can just allow the Founders that are the reason this game is literally still alive to enter the Council of Design, because then the community would see it as PaY-To-Win, and we definitely don't want that. 

It'd be better if we just offered a spot on the Council for free, with purchase of the Founder's pack, and then just never contact the Council of Design again.

The Founders can't complain. The spot was free. 

[Miser_able]

Just now, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

oh then im out 

maybe they could actively do good posts and help develop threads or topics to proactively develop concepts, feedback and player help?

Hmm, yea that makes sense to me. A player who shows they are willing to contribute to discussions about additions or improvements would probably be a good addition. 

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

It's not like they'd get a special forum section that they can't do anything with except for meme or keep dead at all times, or have a single thread they can use that would unfollow them every month.

[Miser_able]

1 minute ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Something like that. It's not like we can just allow the Founders that are the reason this game is literally still alive to enter the Council of Design, because then the community would see it as PaY-To-Win, and we definitely don't want that. 

It'd be better if we just offered a spot on the Council for free, with purchase of the Founder's pack, and then just never contact the Council of Design again.

The Founders can't complain. The spot was free. 

Well letting founders in would make sense, not only since they paid so much, but also because if they've been around this long they probably care at least a little bit. 

[Miser_able]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Grimsley Clause said:

It's not like they'd get a special forum section that they can't do anything with except for meme or keep dead at all times, or have a single thread they can use that would unfollow them every month.

Wait, an exclusive section of the forums where they can only discuss whatever scraps DE throws their way rather than being able suggest their own? 

Wouldn't it be better if it had its own fan concepts section where they could actually post ideas and have them looked at? 

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

Just now, (XB1)Grimsley Clause said:

It's not like they'd get a special forum section that they can't do anything with except for meme or keep dead at all times, or have a single thread they can use that would unfollow them every month.

Exactly! That would be almost as ridiculous as converting said thread into a vessel for which, say, a Discord admin could confirm Councillor statuses with, and then having the developers do literally nothing and say literally nothing about it for actual months.

1 minute ago, Miser_able said:

Well letting founders in would make sense, not only since they paid so much, but also because if they've been around this long they probably care at least a little bit. 

Well, sure, but you know who else cares a little bit? The content creators that get paid to advertise Warframe's new updates, that's for sure! Why do you think they get listened to and we end up with crap like the new mod for Titania?

2 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

Wait, an exclusive section of the forums where they can only discuss whatever scraps DE throws their way rather than being able suggest their own? 

Wouldn't it be better if it had its own fan concepts section where they could actually post ideas and have them looked at? 

Yes, but just like every other thing that the Council of Design would stand for, that would ALSO fall into the hands of the general community. 

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

1 minute ago, Miser_able said:

Wait, an exclusive section of the forums where they can only discuss whatever scraps DE throws their way rather than being able suggest their own? 

Wouldn't it be better if it had its own fan concepts section where they could actually post ideas and have them looked at? 

I'd imagine they'd have somewhere they could converge and talk amongst each other, in addition to being able to directly talk to the devs and be kept up to date to give player opinions on upcoming additions, mechanics, and changes.

A forum would be an okay start if kept active, but if they just got a single thread and had to like, make their own Discord server just to talk with each other in real time, that'd be a bit sad, no?

Would make them feel like they're a forgotten afterthought at that point.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Grimsley Clause said:

I'd imagine they'd have somewhere they could converge and talk amongst each other, in addition to being able to directly talk to the devs and be kept up to date to give player opinions on upcoming additions, mechanics, and changes.

A forum would be an okay start if kept active, but if they just got a single thread and had to like, make their own Discord server just to talk with each other in real time, that'd be a bit sad, no?

Would make them feel like they're a forgotten afterthought at that point.

Nah, they'd only feel like an afterthought if after weeks of careful administration, organization, and actually giving a damn about the Council of Design, if one of the admins were to try and make that Discord server officially affiliated with the developers by contacting one himself, and getting denied for reasons either unknown, irrelevant, or just plain stupid.

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

1 minute ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Nah, they'd only feel like an afterthought if after weeks of careful administration, organization, and actually giving a damn about the Council of Design, if one of the admins were to try and make that Discord server officially affiliated with the developers by contacting one himself, and getting denied for reasons either unknown, irrelevant, or just plain stupid.

Would be a shame if this supposedly super handsome and caring admin came with the best intentions and well thought out reasoning and examples for why that server would be affiliated only to be given typical partner schpiel, then denied multiple times.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Grimsley Clause said:

Would be a shame if this supposedly super handsome and caring admin came with the best intentions and well thought out reasoning and examples for why that server would be affiliated only to be given typical partner schpiel, then denied multiple times.

It's funny how that would work: you can allow content creators that harass fans on Twitter and suggest horrible features to be implemented because you know that will, but you come across a supposedly remarkable and independent admin of a Discord server that's actually trying to implement themselves into the community, only to be shut out by the people who fabricated it.

Isn't that ironic?

[Letter13]

Some real talk on the thoughts of an exclusive 'developer hotline' group of players...

I guarantee you that this wouldn't be a silver bullet or panacea to the things players have negative feedback about. It wouldn't magically make everything better.

Let's say you assembled a small group of players who got to work with the developers, test things prior to their release, provide feedback about what is and what isn't good directly to the developers. Let's say these people were, for the most part, really good at testing stuff...

Nothing would likely change. Things might be a bit more polished... but the simple fact is that a small team (let's say of 10, 20 or maybe 30 community members) testing something for a few weeks prior to its release is not going to find the bugs, the exploits, or the issues that tens of thousands of players will find in the first hour of playing said content. The math of manpower simply doesn't add up.

Moreover, the community is big. Like really, really big. Humongous even. Assuming that 30 or so people is able to accurately represent all of the playerbase's ideas and feelings on a topic is simply naive. What happens when these test players have feedback that differs from the community? What happens if, as a result of these select players' feedback, DE changes the game for the worse in other players' eyes? It's been repeatedly proven that the community is not unanimous on anything--the community is too large to be able to agree on any sort of change. Whenever anything is changed, there is always going to be someone who dislikes the change. One man's trash is another man's treasure, etc.

There would also be animosity between the larger playerbase and this smaller group as well, people hate to be excluded from anything, and I guarantee you that many players would grow angry or resentful of a smaller, selected group of players that had the developers' ear for design decisions, fan concepts and feedback. "Why is player X in this group, I, player Y, have way better ideas than they do!"

 

Lastly, how do we know that such a group doesn't already exist? Grain of salt for thought.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

9 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Lastly, how do we know that such a group doesn't already exist? Grain of salt for thought.

is a conspiracy !

[(NSW)Greybones]

This concept sounds fascinating.

@Letter13 made a lot of good points; player base being huge, interpretation of changes being good for some and bad for others, the capability of thousands of players testing versus a handful of testers.

The question of whether something like this group exists already is a good one and is something I’m mulling over. I haven‘t seen references to such a group, and @(PS4)LeBlingKing feels like it doesn’t exist which is the whole point of this topic. If they do exist, where are they and what are the reasons that they’re not a house-hold name? If anyone knows I’d love to be enlightened

Personally, I wonder if the main benefit of a group like this would be to let people feel like they’re listened to 🤔. Even if ideas don’t get implemented in the way the poster expected, perhaps an indicator that the ideas were at least considered would go a long way to making people feel like they’re valued

Edited April 7, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[AtsiaZ]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

This concept sounds fascinating.

@Letter13 made a lot of good points; player base being huge, interpretation of changes being good for some and bad for others, the capability of thousands of players testing versus a handful of testers.

The question of whether something like this group exists already is a good one and is something I’m mulling over. I haven‘t seen references to such a group, and @(PS4)LeBlingKing feels like it doesn’t exist which is the whole point of this topic. If they do exist, where are they and what are the reasons that they’re not a house-hold name? If anyone knows I’d love to be enlightened

Personally, I wonder if the main benefit of a group like this would be to let people feel like they’re listened to 🤔. Even if ideas don’t get implemented in the way the poster expected, perhaps an indicator that the ideas were at least considered would go a long way to making people feel like they’re valued

Whoosh?

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

4 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Lastly, how do we know that such a group doesn't already exist? Grain of salt for thought.

Thanks for the grain, kind stranger! I shall examine it with great care. Hell, I'll probably even frame it and put it on my wall for all to see.

In all seriousness, I'd like to answer some of your questions with a few questions of my own:

Sure, it's a fair point that because Warframe's fanbase is composed of 28+ million registered losers, a handpicked batch of people and their opinions probably wouldn't match that of the other 97.3% of the people who play this game. 

But if THAT'S THE CASE, then why would the developers be so keen on keeping this Council of Design barely active in the first place?! Wouldn't it be easier to 

a. Incorporate more people into the CD in order to get a broader scope of opinions and feedback or

b. Just call it obsolete, and get rid of it entirely?

Sure, some would say it would be a waste of time, but it's not like the developers have wasted their time on any less serious matters, like that one beach episode event or implementing an augment mod that removes a Warframe's passive. _{(Have I made it clear how much I hate that mod yet?)}

Also, I have asked a theoretical question about this subject before: whether the developers would be at fault for overpromising content, or the players, if they're familiar with the developers' "release-first-fix-later" pattern and still get upset when they get an event with a "release-first-fix-later" pattern. 

I'd also like to end up with this: it's inevitable that 100% of the community will never be wholly satisfied with an update. But it shouldn't take every single social media platform burning down for the developers to have to step in and do something about it. The players want to be treated as such, not as bug-testers, despite how useful that method may be. 

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, Atsia said:

Whoosh?

Hm?

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

Just now, Atsia said:

Whoosh?

Think he was being overly subtle.

 

[Letter13]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Personally, I wonder if the main benefit of a group like this would be to let people feel like they’re listened to 🤔. Even if ideas don’t get implemented in the way the poster expected, perhaps an indicator that the ideas were at least considered would go a long way to making people feel like they’re valued

This has become more difficult as the community has grown. Way back in 2013 and 2014 when the community was smaller, developers had a much more active role on the forums and on reddit and interacted a lot more with the community because it was far more feasible. 

Nowadays, if DE were to interact with the community the same way they did in the first years of the game, they would be spending all of their time on the forums replying to and discussing things, leaving no time left over to actually develop the game.

While I think a "This post/thread has been seen by a developer" indicator might be nice, it also might result in either false hope or increased animosity towards the developers by players--"Hey DE, you SAW the thread and the feedback? Why aren't you doing it?!? You're useless!" or something along those lines. Could be good, could be bad, very hard to say with how volatile the community and some of the more vocal folks in it can be.

[AtsiaZ]

3 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Could be good, could be bad, very hard to say with how volatile the community and some of the more vocal folks in it can be.

Probably worse, since any indication that DE knows a problem exists and hasn't done anything about it yet would just lead to even more salt and complaints, since I doubt DE would have the time to explain why a certain but it change game been made yet.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Atsia

[Letter13]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

But if THAT'S THE CASE, then why would the developers be so keen on keeping this Council of Design barely active in the first place?! Wouldn't it be easier to...

I'm talking about a group separate from the actual Design Council, this separate and more influential group is what you seemed to be 'desiring' with your satire.

The Design Council was never really meant to be an extension of DE's QA team. They're given the chance to vote on certain things and affect development of Warframe in a fairly minor way; they don't have the ear of the developers (except when DE asks, specifically, for idea suggestions in the Design Council).

What you're wanting, or at least from what I can tell, is basically a 'Cool Kids Club' comprised of selected individuals from the community who act either as, or in addition to, DE's QA team. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 minute ago, Letter13 said:

While I think a "This post/thread has been seen by a developer" indicator might be nice, it also might result in either false hope or increased animosity towards the developers by players--"Hey DE, you SAW the thread and the feedback? Why aren't you doing it?!? You're useless!" or something along those lines. Could be good, could be bad, very hard to say with how volatile the community and some of the more vocal folks in it can be.

Good point. This is good food for thought.