The Dragon Key Lore Dilemma...

[Xylia]

So something just occured to me as I was sitting here thinking about the whole Void/Dragon Key system.

 

Lore-wise, there are.... thousands upon thousands of Orokin Ships (dunno why they call them "towers"; they hardly look like towers) floating around in the Void.

 

Each Ship had a Key assigned to it that we are finding scattered throughout the Solar System. We get a key, use the key to find the ship in question, and then raid the ship for anything we can get our hot little paws on, and then the Lotus sends in recovery crews to mop up anything else of interest we couldn't carry. By the time we're done, I imagine each Orokin Ship is nothing more than an empty picked-clean corpse.

 

And now, we discover that Derelicts have vaults. These vaults, for some reason, can be jury-rigged open with a "Dragon Key"; and we make a dragon key by taking a Void Key, and slapping some Ferrite on it somehow and haul it to the vault and blast it open to grab the last pieces of stuff the Infested couldn't get to.

 

...........wait a minute, what?

 

Okay, so...

 

1). If we're using up Void Keys in this way, doesn't this mean that there are Void Ships floating around in the Void which will never be found because we "wasted" the keys to them trying to jury-rig the derelict vaults open?

 

2). Why don't the VOID SHIPS have Vaults? Derelicts are Void Ships that didn't make it to the Void before they became Infested, right? Or somecrap? Okay. These ships have vaults, which are placed in tiles commonly found in ships that DID make it to the void. So why do we never see Vaults in the Void?

 

3). Wouldn't it make more sense to use the Void Keys to find Void Ships, rather than searching for the derelicts? The Void Ships should have vaults, and if you picked the rest of the ship clean, there's surely got to be another way into that vault once you clean the ship out and bring a drilling/blasting crew in or some-such.

 

So yeah when I think about it... the lore behind Dragon Keys and Derelict Vaults.... just doesn't make much sense.

[Althix]

so you need explanation from lore why you must run vaults and after that grind Cyath for 4-5 days in order to level only one of them to max?

Edited October 12, 2013 by Althix

[Xylia]

so you need explanation from lore why you must run vaults and after that grind Cyath for 4-5 days in order to level them to max?

 

I dunno, call me spoiled but when I'm playing a game, I do kinda... pay attention to the game's setting, story, etc.

 

And when something doesn't make sense, I'm sitting here, scratching my head going "uh, okay, wtf is with this?"

 

Most things in Warframe have been OK Lorewise, and consistent... this is just one of those few things that doesn't "Fit".

[YouHaveShamedYoFamory]

 

And now, we discover that Derelicts have vaults. These vaults, for some reason, can be jury-rigged open with a "Dragon Key"; and we make a dragon key by taking a Void Key, and slapping some Ferrite on it somehow and haul it to the vault and blast it open to grab the last pieces of stuff the Infested couldn't get to.

 

 

 

[notionphil]

I believe vaults on the void ships would be more carefully hidden/obscured bc the neural sentry is still functional. Maybe we wil find them later as our understanding of the orokin progresses.

The infestation corrupts the derelict orokin ships, and the vaults became easily discernible, which has the side effect of tainting the artifacts therein.

Our key is a corrupted void key, which should require nanospores instead of ferrite.

Or so id imagine.

[Aggh]

So something just occured to me as I was sitting here thinking about the whole Void/Dragon Key system.

 

Lore-wise, there are.... thousands upon thousands of Orokin Ships (dunno why they call them "towers"; they hardly look like towers) floating around in the Void.

 

Each Ship had a Key assigned to it that we are finding scattered throughout the Solar System. We get a key, use the key to find the ship in question, and then raid the ship for anything we can get our hot little paws on, and then the Lotus sends in recovery crews to mop up anything else of interest we couldn't carry. By the time we're done, I imagine each Orokin Ship is nothing more than an empty picked-clean corpse.

 

And now, we discover that Derelicts have vaults. These vaults, for some reason, can be jury-rigged open with a "Dragon Key"; and we make a dragon key by taking a Void Key, and slapping some Ferrite on it somehow and haul it to the vault and blast it open to grab the last pieces of stuff the Infested couldn't get to.

 

...........wait a minute, what?

 

Okay, so...

 

1). If we're using up Void Keys in this way, doesn't this mean that there are Void Ships floating around in the Void which will never be found because we "wasted" the keys to them trying to jury-rig the derelict vaults open?

 

2). Why don't the VOID SHIPS have Vaults? Derelicts are Void Ships that didn't make it to the Void before they became Infested, right? Or somecrap? Okay. These ships have vaults, which are placed in tiles commonly found in ships that DID make it to the void. So why do we never see Vaults in the Void?

 

3). Wouldn't it make more sense to use the Void Keys to find Void Ships, rather than searching for the derelicts? The Void Ships should have vaults, and if you picked the rest of the ship clean, there's surely got to be another way into that vault once you clean the ship out and bring a drilling/blasting crew in or some-such.

 

So yeah when I think about it... the lore behind Dragon Keys and Derelict Vaults.... just doesn't make much sense.

You're assuming that all the ships have their own unique key.  And that all void ships are the same.  It's all pointless speculation anyways since lore is clearly on the back burner for the moment.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Aggh

[Xylia]

You're assuming that all the ships have their own unique key :|

 

True, but with the thousands of keys that we Tenno used already, if ships didn't all have a unique key, then surely some of us would have run into a ship that was already picked clean by other Tenno (since Tenno seem to be the only ones capable of surviving in there without being corrupted by the sentries).

 

So, I think it is fair to say that all keys lead to ships not already found by the Tenno.

 

And even then, how would any singular Tenno know which keys are duplicates that lead to ships already visited, and which keys don't, when they are about to make a Dragon Key? If I hold a key in my hand, do I know whether or not that ship was already hit?

Edited October 12, 2013 by Xylia

[matto]

Our key is a corrupted void key, which should require nanospores instead of ferrite.

 

One does not simply use nanospores, one shall collect them.

[PsychedelicSnake]

I don't feel like contributing to the current conversation, so I'll say this:

 

I assume that these Orokin "Towers" are the names given to a certain class of Orokin Ship. "Tower Class" Orokin Vessel. That sounds cool.

[smithf]

iirc, didn't the livestream mentioned that the "vaults" were only found in derelict because the original owners placed them in there to protect them from the inevitable infestation of the area. that is why "vaults" are found in derelict, at least to their explanation.

 

Still, it doesn't explain why the hell do the before-derelict void spend the time to do a giant excalibur prime statue.... maybe they needed something to do while waiting for their own death?

 

But then again, these are the people who placed the secret rooms in the amusement park called Void Towers, which were supposed to be their safehouses...

[Ishki88]

I can't believe this generation of gamers and developers (Not subliminally dissing the DE) do not care or and/or put in consideration of a story of their game.  These things never happened in the 80s-90s.  Even the tiniest game had a story.

[LittleReshiram]

Basically, EVERY Derelict we found are cargo ships. Why it's categorized as cargo ships? The giant vaults in it. Why? No reason.

 

..Well, lore wise, it could be because the Vault is basically what holds the source of all evi-I mean, technocyte, that plague the Derelict Ship.

That explains why only the ship got bummed, and why it's the only one having the vault.

Or, well, if the team wanted to make the lore to be something that is REALLY good, maybe they will add bigger, badder, better vault, for the usual Void tile, and put some more edgy backstory on it. Which is good. Not as good as the promised Story Mode, tho.

Well, lore aside, this is basically just so we play the Derelict more often anyway, nothing more, nothing less.

[Xylia]

I can't believe this generation of gamers and developers (Not subliminally dissing the DE) do not care or and/or put in consideration of a story of their game.  These things never happened in the 80s-90s.  Even the tiniest game had a story.

 

You're kidding me, right?

 

Super Mario Bros... "HURR BIG TURTLE KIDNAPS PRINCESS AND HER 7 MUSHROOM PEOPLE!"

 

......such great story, eh?

 

It is ironic that the opposite of what you said is true -- most NES games had very little story, but TONS of gameplay, because, well, home video game consoles were NEW. Well, new-ish. There was the Atari, but yeah. As games developed more, people started adding actual story (Crystalis, Final Fantasy, etc) into their games, but a lot of games still had the "_____ kidnapped ____, go save her!" (SMB, Ghosts&Goblins, Milon's Secret Castle, Battletoads, etc) model.

 

About the time the SNES came around, is when you Really started to see more Story enter the game and it just kept going on from there, games which had very little story became more increasingly rare as time went on.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Xylia

[matto]

I'd rather say "this game ignores the recent development of the last decade concerning lore mechanics".

[Spaniard_United]

The notion that each key acquired by the thousands of Warframe players leads to a different and distinct Orokin ship is a bit far-fetched. There's a limit to the reality of an online game like this. We're able to kill the same bad guy over and over and over ... you might be able to attribute that to cloning for the Grineer, and reproducing the machine for Corpus ... but infestation? Can't really explain that one away. There's a point where "realistic" stops and certain liberties have to be taken in order to create a game that can be played by that many people.

 

The point is it's a game, which in all reality is a bit shallow on lore/storyline as it is, and the creation of the Dragon Key was not meant to "make sense" but to use up resources that DE felt were of sufficient worth. Does it make sense that the Dragon key requires a Void key to make? No, not really, the Void and the derelicts are two different things that, to our knowledge, have not intersected. Unless the Vault was created in the void and then sent out of the void to further protect it ... anyways, there are very few "Orokin" items that the player can get a hold of with regard to resources. Orokin cells (everyone would revolt), Orokin Reactor/Catalyst (everyone would burn down DE's office), and Void keys aka access to Orokin ships (easily obtained by doing survival for 15 minutes). I think we have a winner.

[bobafetthotmail]

1). If we're using up Void Keys in this way, doesn't this mean that there are Void Ships floating around in the Void which will never be found because we "wasted" the keys to them trying to jury-rig the derelict vaults open?

 

2). Why don't the VOID SHIPS have Vaults? Derelicts are Void Ships that didn't make it to the Void before they became Infested, right? Or somecrap? Okay. These ships have vaults, which are placed in tiles commonly found in ships that DID make it to the void. So why do we never see Vaults in the Void?

 

3). Wouldn't it make more sense to use the Void Keys to find Void Ships, rather than searching for the derelicts? The Void Ships should have vaults, and if you picked the rest of the ship clean, there's surely got to be another way into that vault once you clean the ship out and bring a drilling/blasting crew in or some-such.

 

So yeah when I think about it... the lore behind Dragon Keys and Derelict Vaults.... just doesn't make much sense.

 

The things in the Void are Towers, which means they are Space Stations. Built in a pocket dimension for defensive reasons.

 

Derelicts are ships, that didn't engage their Void Engine to make the jump in time before getting contaminated and overrun by worthless pests that can be raped by my Dethcube alone (and Orokin couldn't defend from that crap? OH REALLY?).

 

1) there is nothing that says each key is linked to a specific Tower. They might just be a communicator broadcasting a general "beam me up scotty" message to "nearby" Towers that teleport us and our team into them.

 

2)because the void towers are already in a easily defensible position (pocket dimension, only way to get at them is with Orokin tech).

 

3) I assume that Orokin made more keys than Towers. Given the rewards anyway, you are right. The corrupted mods are total S#&$ not worth wasting a void key on. Some don't even provide a bonus at all (the one about critical for pistols that also decreases the damage done for example).

 

 

True, but with the thousands of keys that we Tenno used already, if ships didn't all have a unique key, then surely some of us would have run into a ship that was already picked clean by other Tenno (since Tenno seem to be the only ones capable of surviving in there without being corrupted by the sentries).

With my system above, (the key is just a communicator), it's easy to explain. All towers that were "liberated" were actually then taken over by Lotus's lesser servants (she says "we can take over from here" at end mission), and are then used for other but unknown purposes.

 

So the next time a Tenno powers up a key the "liberated" towers won't teleport them up as that thing was probably the first that Lotus's technicians (Vaubans?) will disable or re-code to use their own set of keys to teleport around themselves or Tenno.

 

Theoretically it's said that Tenno use captured Towers as bases and homes. So then they are likely coded to move Tenno around.

 

Orokin Towers are used by the Tenno as a base of operations and areas in which to train. The White Tower, for example, is where Tenno complete skill tests in order to advance their rank in society. - Warframe, DESteve

from https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/9151-warframe-lore-database-no-cats-in-the-future/

in the Tenno spoiler.

 

 

Still, it doesn't explain why the hell do the before-derelict void spend the time to do a giant excalibur prime statue.... maybe they needed something to do while waiting for their own death?

 

But then again, these are the people who placed the secret rooms in the amusement park called Void Towers, which were supposed to be their safehouses...

Orokin seem to have had a asian-like approach to things, where everything has its "art" and the shape and procedures are as much important as the actual result.

 

Which is the same kind of dumb approach that got China Empire under total control from foreign powers back in the 1900 (also hooked to oppium), and Japan steamrolled into submission by the US in the WWII.

Then they started to change.

Edited October 12, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[FrostWolf]

okay... at some point you guys got to accept that there isn't gonna be a Lore answer for everything.

[Archistopheles]

Not dragon keys....

 

[bobafetthotmail]

^ Yeah, that's the first thing I thought when I heard then name. Now I want my Bo to lengthen at my command, and I demand to be able to shoot energy beams at my command, and also to be able to fly on my small yellow cloud.

 

okay... at some point you guys got to accept that there isn't gonna be a Lore answer for everything.

The good part of lacking lore is that it allows creative people to make S#&$ up that actually allows completely unrelated decisions to coalesce in a story that makes sense.

[Exillian]

Wait so you sayin this game has lore :o?

[LikeABawsh]

One thing that I've been wondering... 

 

If these corrupted void keys are so powerful that they effect you negatively in one aspect, why is it that Vor can just haul one around without issue?

Hes a pain to kill, and even uses the keys to attack you. I wanna shoot lightning out of my keys too, ya know! Not just be turned into a turtle by the hobbled ones :c

[Azure_Kytia]

You're kidding me, right?

 

Super Mario Bros... "HURR BIG TURTLE KIDNAPS PRINCESS AND HER 7 MUSHROOM PEOPLE!"

 

Actually, I think you'll find that King Koopa cast a magical spell that turned all the Mushroom people into bricks. That's the story. Mario set off to rescue the Princess and revert the curse.

 

Doesn't it suck to realise that one of the most iconic vidya game characters is a mass murderer.

[Mak_Gohae]

1). If we're using up Void Keys in this way, doesn't this mean that there are Void Ships floating around in the Void which will never be found because we "wasted" the keys to them trying to jury-rig the derelict vaults open?

 

2). Why don't the VOID SHIPS have Vaults? Derelicts are Void Ships that didn't make it to the Void before they became Infested, right? Or somecrap? Okay. These ships have vaults, which are placed in tiles commonly found in ships that DID make it to the void. So why do we never see Vaults in the Void?

 

3). Wouldn't it make more sense to use the Void Keys to find Void Ships, rather than searching for the derelicts? The Void Ships should have vaults, and if you picked the rest of the ship clean, there's surely got to be another way into that vault once you clean the ship out and bring a drilling/blasting crew in or some-such.

 

So yeah when I think about it... the lore behind Dragon Keys and Derelict Vaults.... just doesn't make much sense.

 

 

1. I dont think there is one tower per key.

 

2. The vault exists because the ships couldn't jump to the void so they hid their stuff in those vaults. The ships in the Void didnt need to hide stuff and it's why we get loot at the end of the missions.

 

3. There derelict has new artifacts not seen in the Void ships so why not search the derelicts?

[Madotsuki]

While we're at it, we may as well ask why the co-ordinates leading to abandoned Orokin Derelicts drifting through space can be found in completely random containers and lockers on any ship instead of being downloaded from control panels or computers of some sort.

There's also the curious question of why we can find capture targets inside the Orokin Void (all non-Tenno are corrupted, makes no sense for some random Corpus guy to survive), the Orokin Derelict (Infestation should have killed him), or any Infested mission.

There's also Vor and Kril. You kill them on their respective planets, yet reappear in Phobos. If they are clones, this means the Grineer can resurrect them no matter how many times you slay them, so why bother hunting them in the first place, instead of going directly after the cloning bases? If they AREN'T clones, then wtf?

Basically, DE put zero thought into making any of the gameplay mechanics logical. There is zero lore beyond the most basic of background settings, and it will take ages to revamp the lore, but DE is clearly not going to focus on that any time soon.

[alphex]

So something just occured to me as I was sitting here thinking about the whole Void/Dragon Key system.

 

Lore-wise, there are.... thousands upon thousands of Orokin Ships (dunno why they call them "towers"; they hardly look like towers) floating around in the Void.

 

Each Ship had a Key assigned to it that we are finding scattered throughout the Solar System. We get a key, use the key to find the ship in question, and then raid the ship for anything we can get our hot little paws on, and then the Lotus sends in recovery crews to mop up anything else of interest we couldn't carry. By the time we're done, I imagine each Orokin Ship is nothing more than an empty picked-clean corpse.

 

And now, we discover that Derelicts have vaults. These vaults, for some reason, can be jury-rigged open with a "Dragon Key"; and we make a dragon key by taking a Void Key, and slapping some Ferrite on it somehow and haul it to the vault and blast it open to grab the last pieces of stuff the Infested couldn't get to.

 

...........wait a minute, what?

 

Okay, so...

 

1). If we're using up Void Keys in this way, doesn't this mean that there are Void Ships floating around in the Void which will never be found because we "wasted" the keys to them trying to jury-rig the derelict vaults open?

 

2). Why don't the VOID SHIPS have Vaults? Derelicts are Void Ships that didn't make it to the Void before they became Infested, right? Or somecrap? Okay. These ships have vaults, which are placed in tiles commonly found in ships that DID make it to the void. So why do we never see Vaults in the Void?

 

3). Wouldn't it make more sense to use the Void Keys to find Void Ships, rather than searching for the derelicts? The Void Ships should have vaults, and if you picked the rest of the ship clean, there's surely got to be another way into that vault once you clean the ship out and bring a drilling/blasting crew in or some-such.

 

So yeah when I think about it... the lore behind Dragon Keys and Derelict Vaults.... just doesn't make much sense.

1. Void keys open the void only they don't open Orokin ships

 

2. Void ships to have Vaults you know the ones with all the parkure? That can be considered a vault.

 

3. The vaults must be made out of super strong materials that cant be blown also hacking would be useless since Orokin technology is hard enough to understand. And refer to number 1

 

Hows that?

Edited October 13, 2013 by alphex