[The Outdated Parkour Thread] It Finally Happened! (Voice Your Opinion In The Poll!)

[Aure7]

To OP and anyone who read my post

Your suggestions are great and indeed they are needed

but i must tell you that on Devstream 50 (2 weeks ago), the devs actually said that the parkour system IS currently been REWORKED/OVERHAULED

they said that this upgrade is expected for Update 17 (U17)

so yeah they are RIGHT NOW working on it

so please BE PATIENT its coming soon...

BE PATIENT

BE PATIENT

 

sorry for been a little rude but this generation of video game players are soo used to the "instant gratification" syndrome...

I knew this for like half a year now. It simply got more and more confirmed with each stream. We're simply trying to influence the update to be as good as possible.

[Lord-KEK]

I knew this for like half a year now. It simply got more and more confirmed with each stream. We're simply trying to influence the update to be as good as possible.

yeah i just noticed that your OP is from 2013 lol

 

my bad

 

but still we have to be patient

[Thalahssalyst]

As i say, mi hopes are on coptering be based on warframe speed and not in your melee ;D
A new dodge system more fluid and fast.

[tmtke]

put on yer thinkin' caps, it's classroom time.

Animations in ALL games are made from a sequence of Key Frames. it is a list of instructions to tell the Mesh to look like N at Y time in the Animation. (note this is time in the Animation, because Animations are traditionally disconnected from the rest of the game)

however, instead of being locked down by Keyframing Animation work, David Rosen (rightly so since it's a two person Development Team) chose to have Key Frames denote the minimum and maximum of an action, and the computer will interpolate the in between.

if you want to have an Animation that has a different style in that system, you create another 13 Key Frames.

the only bounds you're tied to, are physiological ones. it needs to look like a living being, not magic. outside of that, David Rosen can do anything he wants.

there is no loss of personality. more personality can be introduced with separate Animation Sets. Character N might right jab as a direct punch, rotating their entire Torso while doing so.

Character Y might right jab in a less direct manner, with a swing curve to it, and lean the opposite side of the Torso in, rather than rotating towards the strike.

there is no loss of personality. if you wanted a Character to feel timid while attacking, you may very well do so, making each attack less sure of itself, and more reserved.

if you wanted a Character to leave no holds barred, you may very well do so, making each attack vicious and constantly pushing.

if you wanted a Character to flop around like a Tube Man, you may very well do so, taking advantage of the interpolation to add randomness and noise to the Animations, giving the entire Character a wobbly feeling (and much easier and natural than would traditionally be done, you don't need to create a thousand Animation variations, you can have the Computer randomize noise patterns based off of your Key Frames).

thus ends the Classroom.

 

Cute :) What you don't know that I was in game development for quite a few years and you can be pretty sure that I know a lot about how animation systems work.

 

Let's end this, because it just derailing the thread. Let me summarize my thoughts: Overgrowth is really bada$$, I love it, the technology, the idea, the cleverness, the execution. What I'd like to point out, is that the procedural, generalized system MIGHT not apply as well to Warframe, as you expect. I'm not even completely sure about that, but I had a strong feeling that it won't. And just let it go. I will not go into it any deeper. You might tell me that "yea, thats the easy way", but I just don't want the hassle. Not worth it to make an endless argument about how animation systems are working in a game (I was working on on back in the time).

[unknow99]

That there is a tradeoff: in the case of overgrowth system you'll have a general movement/navigation/fighting animation engine, but you'll lose almost every characterisation/personalisation options. Each system is good, the overgrowth guy can't afford 10 animators working on characters all the time, so he had to implement a system instead. On the other hand (current game engines are all having movement trees and a lot of nonlinear animation possibilities) you will have things like noble stances and distinct, characterised animation sets, but it's a lot of work.

 

The thing what warframe is failing to do currently is not dependant of the underlying animation capabilities.

Ok j'ai compris. Merci. :)

 

put on yer thinkin' caps, it's classroom time.

Animations in ALL games are made from a sequence of Key Frames. it is a list of instructions to tell the Mesh to look like N at Y time in the Animation. (note this is time in the Animation, because Animations are traditionally disconnected from the rest of the game)

however, instead of being locked down by Keyframing Animation work, David Rosen (rightly so since it's a two person Development Team) chose to have Key Frames denote the minimum and maximum of an action, and the computer will interpolate the in between.

if you want to have an Animation that has a different style in that system, you create another 13 Key Frames.

the only bounds you're tied to, are physiological ones. it needs to look like a living being, not magic. outside of that, David Rosen can do anything he wants.

there is no loss of personality. more personality can be introduced with separate Animation Sets. Character N might right jab as a direct punch, rotating their entire Torso while doing so.

Character Y might right jab in a less direct manner, with a swing curve to it, and lean the opposite side of the Torso in, rather than rotating towards the strike.

there is no loss of personality. if you wanted a Character to feel timid while attacking, you may very well do so, making each attack less sure of itself, and more reserved.

if you wanted a Character to leave no holds barred, you may very well do so, making each attack vicious and constantly pushing.

if you wanted a Character to flop around like a Tube Man, you may very well do so, taking advantage of the interpolation to add randomness and noise to the Animations, giving the entire Character a wobbly feeling (and much easier and natural than would traditionally be done, you don't need to create a thousand Animation variations, you can have the Computer randomize noise patterns based off of your Key Frames).

thus ends the Classroom.

Wow,this is the kind of instructive (yet a little bashing :/ ) comment I appreciate to read...

 

I wonder if having the middle of what taiiat & tmtke say is a possibility...

 

 

Be right back, I'll PM this thread to mr Geoff.

Edited April 25, 2015 by unknow99

[(PSN)theelix]

Blah blah blah stuff was said.

This thread was made two years ago.

We are being patient. Stop yelling at us.

Herpity der- Didn't read about... Two posts under. You've been told already, disregard.

Edited April 27, 2015 by (PS4)theelix

[tiduseQ]

I'd pay only to be able to jump better. Even if it was some unique DLC oO .

[unknow99]

I'd pay only to be able to jump better. Even if it was some unique DLC oO .

DL-

 

No.

 

Nonononono. Please.

 

[Hadez239]

up for this

[zavienh5]

Thx to the OP, parkour 2.0 is coming :D

[Thalahssalyst]

Yes, thank you. This feedback is awesome.
I hope the change for coptering make it unnecesary to use.

[unknow99]

I think that we should shout a huge thank you to Aure7 when Parkour 2.0 comes out, because he fought for nearly 2 years for it to happen!

(and an even bigger thank you to DE for taking this feedback into account)

 

Don't miss friday's devstream guys. :)

Edited May 5, 2015 by unknow99

[ThePresident777]

We have coptoring thanks to massive feedback in favor of it.

 

Incidentally, no one has explianed how coptoring is unbalanced.  Infact, Overgrowth has coptoring.  It doesn't look like it because the animations are different but it performs the same function, even better.

Edited May 5, 2015 by ThePresident777

[Rakshal]

We have coptoring thanks to massive feedback in favor of it.

Incidentally, no one has explianed how coptoring is unbalanced. Infact, Overgrowth has coptoring. It doesn't look like it because the animations are different but it performs the same function, even better.

You are talking about constant jumping in Overgrowth being similar to coptering in Warframe, right? That makes sense. If only coptering could have a good animation like jumping.

[tmtke]

We have coptoring thanks to massive feedback in favor of it.

 

Incidentally, no one has explianed how coptoring is unbalanced.  Infact, Overgrowth has coptoring.  It doesn't look like it because the animations are different but it performs the same function, even better.

 

The problem with coptering is that different weapon animations are causing different movement speed, trajectory and so on. This goes almost similarly to directional melee. Compare for example Scoliac, Reaper Prime, Dual Ichor and Glaive. Scoliac gives a somewhat rocketjump feeling, while Glaive is suprisingly bad and slow regardless of its size. Dual Ichor is fast, and gives a lot of speed, Reaper Prime is the slowest of the four example (not surprisingly). I tried to collect some really weird examples, I think these can highlight the problem. They are not logical in their movement, and only depending on the current animation (take Glaive again - it's even slower when the new stance is equipped). These effects are killing consistent and reliable movement. This is why coptering is unbalanced.

[Aspari]

We have coptoring thanks to massive feedback in favor of it.

 

 

Only because there were zero speed alternatives besides wall-springing, and that's unreliable as hell. 

[unknow99]

Oooh one more page until 60!!

 

We should totally invade the Twitch chat this friday to keep asking questions about Parkour & coptering/directional melee tone down...

[Thalahssalyst]

We have coptoring thanks to massive feedback in favor of it.

 

Incidentally, no one has explianed how coptoring is unbalanced.  Infact, Overgrowth has coptoring.  It doesn't look like it because the animations are different but it performs the same function, even better.

You know coptering its still a bug right?

Something never touched and balanced.

[Adreni]

The entire movement system from walking, turning, and running to parkour itself needs to be redone completely with no exceptions. Due to the movement and movement alone I am on a razor's edge of uninstalling Warframe indefinitely.

 

Movement fidelity is horrific, acceleration, turning, deceleration, forced rolling, high-speed maneuvers, aerial maneuvers, parkour, the very EXISTENCE of coptering, the fact that the devs have embraced coptering as the new Triple Chording or Bunny Hopping.

 

Coptering needs to go, completely. Spin attacks shouldn't propel the player hardly at all, it makes them excessively difficult to use as an attack and far too viable as a means to rush. It needs to go, the end.

 

I hate to say it but my beloved release-on-contact wallrun kilometer-slingshotting needs to go.

 

Superhuman, void-augmented ninjas in powersuits getting tired from running for a few seconds... that's cute. That's really cute. The only things that should need stamina to keep going are block and wallrun. I'll tentatively accept stamina drain on sprint for balance.

 

Roll-on-landing needs to go. I shouldn't have to slam-attack to get a reliable landing. If I want to roll and preserve forward momentum I will hit my Ctrl key and roll manually.

 

Vaulting needs to be remixed. There will never be a situation where vaulting from an upright position is desirable. From a crouched position? Sure, go for it! If I'm crouching and jump toward my cover, yeah, I'll probably expect to slide over it or dump myself off the ledge for a quick descent, but this stop-gap measure of being able to turn it off only proves how absolutely insufferable its current implementation is.

 

I'm tired of this "left means right" bug getting left alone. I'm tired of slide-jumps not registering. I'm tired of half my parkour either not working at all or sending me in a direction I didn't intend. I'm tired of ledge grabs barely working, I just spent five minutes trying to wall-run up to a hole that I promptly slid down. Yes, I slid down the empty space!

 

A targeted leap system should be explored, if only in the form of a revisit to Excalibur's Super Jump.

 

And as a stab at a specific Warframe: Valkyr's Ripline ought to reel you in fully and only release mid-air if the player hits it a second time.

 

 

You know coptering its still a bug right?
Something never touched and balanced.

 

 

So were Bunny Hopping and Triple Chording. They became beloved metas to their respective games, and the developers of Warframe have treated coptering like a pet, acknowledging it and even high-fiving it.

 

I can understand why. "Oh, cool! The community found something we didn't mean to do and made a whole meta out of it! We should keep it!" They think it gives Warframe character, I'm certain... but frankly it's just an excuse to go flying through the level, leaving all the non-super-pro "plebs" behind, and a horrible exploit for PVP.

 

P.S.: On second thought, I'm gonna put the game down for a while... I can barely tolerate it without people on VoIP and my entire clan is pretty much gone.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Adreni

[taiiat]

Something never touched and balanced.

it's Animations (or the ones for SpinDashes in general but same difference) have been adjusted a bit, tweaked to look a little bit better.

and there is a 'Coptering' background stat.

we've had this for somewhere between 7 months and a year.

[Thalahssalyst]

it's Animations (or the ones for SpinDashes in general but same difference) have been adjusted a bit, tweaked to look a little bit better.

and there is a 'Coptering' background stat.

we've had this for somewhere between 7 months and a year.

Ehm nope, the only adjustement have seen its the reduction of the atack speed on melee weapons, and that have reduced the coptering distance.

Spin atack never have tweaked to look different

The only thing tweaked its atack speed, based on it, different weapons stats = different distance...

It have the same animation like Spin just in air and that its what makes the bug coptering possible.

This is Spin

 

[taiiat]

The only thing tweaked its atack speed, based on it, different weapons stats = different distance...

Animations were tweaked a bit. you don't notice because you've gotten used to them looking a bit less stupid already.

and Attack Speed is only somewhat (partially, remotely) related to 'Copter'.

there is a background 'Copter' Stat.

[Aure7]

Animations were tweaked a bit. you don't notice because you've gotten used to them looking a bit less stupid already.

and Attack Speed is only somewhat (partially, remotely) related to 'Copter'.

there is a background 'Copter' Stat.

it doesn't count if it's "background". It also doesn't count if it's visuals (if we see it as movement ability) are nowhere near to what we should expect from a AAA developer. Everything still points to copter being a melee ability that is on life support by community temporally until they finally overhaul everything and tidy it up.

[Thalahssalyst]

Animations were tweaked a bit. you don't notice because you've gotten used to them looking a bit less stupid already.

and Attack Speed is only somewhat (partially, remotely) related to 'Copter'.

there is a background 'Copter' Stat.

Ehm try to do the same distance with a heavy melee weapon who have less atack speed, coptering its based on atack speed of the melee weapon...

I dont see a "copter stat" on weapons features... Just spin atack ect etc etc...

[taiiat]

coptering its based on atack speed of the melee weapon

I dont see a "copter stat" on weapons features

Attack Speed has little to do with the fact that a Heavy Weapon has not very impressive 'Copter'.

the Attack Speeds are not very far apart, yet one is like a personal teleportation system, and the other is a boulder with glider wings.

when Digital Extremes tried to improve this bug become feature, found that the bug in SpinDash code couldn't be replicated on purpose. many tries, without being able to get something close to what already existed.

so it was left, but a background stat mixed in to allow more control over the bug become feature.

was there something you didn't understand about 'background stat'? it's not displayed, like many stats that in this game aren't displayed to the Player.