[The Outdated Parkour Thread] It Finally Happened! (Voice Your Opinion In The Poll!)

[Aure7]

As if aerial melee shall ever replace parkour and not be an extension of it.

 

Lack of imagination prevents those that dislike it from seeing how it works with it and are blind to actually seeing it happen as they watch.

 

Also fail to see how levels can be designed with aerial melee in mind.

 

Seems you people focus too much on getting rid of things rather than adapting to new things and adding new things.

 

Simply don't see the big picture picture and how it adds a new dimension to things.

 

You guys are always whining about what the point of this or that rather than simply finding new ways to parkour.

 

You guys rather $#*(@ and moan than to make use of cool new things like aerial melee. Must be if y'all genes.

 

Gotta make parkour easy to make aerial melee less relevant. The only reason it's abused because parkour is garbage.

 

You can't expect people to start using parkour should copter and aerial melee be removed. You've lost yo minds if so.

 

They'll just run n butt slide all day, then you guys would whine about that.

 

Should they remove it, they'll just run n jump slide then you'll whine about that.

 

After they remove that, they'll simply run and then you all would whine that no one ever parkours which brings y'all back to this thread.

 

Ya'll would have nothing left to whine about except parkour itself. There should be a Guiness Book World Record for whining...

okay dear forum user and warframe player, allow me to try and explain the core philosophy behind my suggestion thread with a following example:

 

Let's say that there's a specific level with particular set of tiles that player has to rush through. It's filled with gaps, ledges, walls, unnecessarily long stairs, vents, railings and containers who can't wait to act as a wall for players run on or kick off or whatever.

 

Place a generic warframe veteran in there to rush through, he'll constantly spam copter and use aerial melee to quickly jump over gaps or on whatever place he needs to go, ignoring any walls and other parkour opportunities.

 

Let's say he spent 5 minutes to reach the extraction.

 

now fast forward several months forward, where parkour 2.0 in one way or another came in, adding major changes to anything related to movement and tweaking melee attacks such as copter and aerial melee. Let's hope there will be changes to basic sprint and stamina, allowing players to run much faster and longer than before. Also numerous other improvements and overhauls I am listing in the OP. Copter and aerial melee still offer great and quick speed to reach enemies, allowing for easier hits, however doesn't send you as far now and might even consume more stamina.

 

and now according to what I want from parkour 2.0, a similar player rushing the same exact level would still spend 5 minutes doing it without relying on copter and aerial melee. With practice and skills, he could make it even shorter just because of newly introduced parkour.

[Nagisawa]

The sad part, Aure 7, is that the very same people who used copter and aerial melee would simply find another bug and exploit that instead of actually learning how to play the whole game.  Rushers do not care about the whole game, just what gets them to end of the level faster, and nothing else.  Absolutely nothing.  They don't actually play Warframe, they just... Run to the end.

[Tr1ples1xer]

The sad part, Aure 7, is that the very same people who used copter and aerial melee would simply find another bug and exploit that instead of actually learning how to play the whole game.  Rushers do not care about the whole game, just what gets them to end of the level faster, and nothing else.  Absolutely nothing.  They don't actually play Warframe, they just... Run to the end.

That is soo not true and ill advised, I'm a veteran and use copter and air melee and everything not just to rush but to MOVE AROUND effeciently, and this to me is what makes WF unique, the way you can move around, ONCE AGAIN not rushing MOVE AROUND even in defense or whatever all these moves are what makes the game awesome. You are completely wrong.

[(PSN)theelix]

The beauty of quoting others...

 

Tells the person you are replying that you are talking to him and only him and shows everyone else that this is a A to B conversation and that they should C their way out of it unless they have something to add to it(You added nothing really).

 

in other words, not talking to you or about you or anyone else pro copter/d. melee...

Then don't make such a generalized post misconstruing what the quoted person had said.

He said he fears for the future of parkour and you made a large rant about him wanting it removed when what he's talking about is the fact that it completely invalidates the need to parkour anywhere.

It gets you places faster than parkour, it gets you higher than a vertical wall run could, covers distance horizontally faster than a wall run could and is more controllable than trying to jump off the wall of a wall run. It poses a massive threat to parkour and to mobility skills.

All of directional melee basically invalidates the need for Super Jump, when, at max rank and unmodified, is less than all of the possible weapons in this game and, at +45%, barely reaches their height.

Weapons like the Galatine, the Tipedo, the Ampis, the BO and BO prime, and the Orthos and Orthos Prime invalidate just about all of the mobility skills in the game. Why use tail wind and waste the energy when you could just use the Orthos? Why use Ripline? Orthos gets you higher with no energy. Why use Bounce? I gotta Galatine, that's almost 3x better.

 

And "ya'll" "you guys" and "you people" are not specific phrases, especially if you're talking to one person or trying to only insult those who aren't pro copter.

Edited February 8, 2015 by (PS4)theelix

[dashashou]

I 'mm srry but DE just has abandoned parkor in-terms of  level design in favor or  directional melee and coptering. These are screens from 2 of the newest changes to the void and how  they simply designed directional melee to over come it 

 

the Red is  with directional melee 

the green is normal parkour 

 

is this one -it's  much easier / quicker to just  jump than  run around on the wall 

 

 

and this new void room , unless your on a very fast frame loki / rhino+ vanguard+ rush , u just can't use parkour to get to it 

 

and it takes some practice to parkour it ,  while a simple jump with directional melee gets u right up there  

 

 

and this is void , the new tile sets are alot worst to the point that  going through  a level with pics just becomes  an excessive screen shot montage of room by room where direction melee > parkour 

 

Parkour is dead and directional melee has killed it ; but lets be honest the parkour has always been simple and gimmickie as coptering and until parkour 2.0  ( which  DE is unlikely to ever do; overgrowth movement is simply beyond their skills ) it's copter  jump copter jump copter

 

fly you tenno  fly cause your not going to be able to climb ; we have gone from hybrid monkey-cats  to pilot snakes ( snakes that climb only so they can glide ) 

Edited February 8, 2015 by Ravel7

[Aspari]

That is soo not true and ill advised, I'm a veteran and use copter and air melee and everything not just to rush but to MOVE AROUND effeciently, and this to me is what makes WF unique, the way you can move around, ONCE AGAIN not rushing MOVE AROUND even in defense or whatever all these moves are what makes the game awesome. You are completely wrong.

While I don't agree with the idea that being unique is a good thing or that coptering and the current directional melee is fun, I can understand where you're coming from. 

 

I think DE straight-up forgot that they put zip-lines in the game. I also think they're not thinking outside the box when it comes to combat, mobility, and Warframe design. If you take away coptering (which all one has to do is take away the attack speed stat and fix the physics in the game for coptering to no longer exist) and directional melee propulsion (which was a band-aid fix for weapons that can't copter) you're left with subpar parkour. This subpar parkour includes boring ground movement (sprinting), dysfunctional vaulting, lack of fluid obstacle traversal (partially about vaulting, mostly about jumping from ledge to ledge), faulty surface detection, and sticky wall-running.

 

DE could have been creative with mobility but instead they took the easy way out when coptering was found. Now, the idea of having that kind of burst in speed is actually fine. What I don't find fine about it is the speed being only attached to melee.

[Feyangol]

Uff, this thread ...

I would say something against big parts of the first post, but I have no time to quote everything.

 

Just my opinion in a short summary:

Parkour in Warframe was always a combination of melee and normal jump. You used Wallattacks for Movement, before Coptering was possible. The combination of both movement parts allows a fast and precise Parkour (I could solve any problem of the first posts ... ). When a new melee movement component was added, people started to complain about it. This doesn't make sense, because melee was part of the parkour to begin with.

I'm not against a parkour 2.0. I'm against a change of the melee movement, as long as this change function as a movement nerf. If melee movement would be changed and an option would be added to move as quickly, fast and precise like with melee movement, I'm not against this change.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Feyangol

[Jinryusai]

okay dear forum user and warframe player, allow me to try and explain the core philosophy behind my suggestion thread with a following example:

 

Let's say that there's a specific level with particular set of tiles that player has to rush through. It's filled with gaps, ledges, walls, unnecessarily long stairs, vents, railings and containers who can't wait to act as a wall for players run on or kick off or whatever.

 

Place a generic warframe veteran in there to rush through, he'll constantly spam copter and use aerial melee to quickly jump over gaps or on whatever place he needs to go, ignoring any walls and other parkour opportunities.

 

Let's say he spent 5 minutes to reach the extraction.

 

now fast forward several months forward, where parkour 2.0 in one way or another came in, adding major changes to anything related to movement and tweaking melee attacks such as copter and aerial melee. Let's hope there will be changes to basic sprint and stamina, allowing players to run much faster and longer than before. Also numerous other improvements and overhauls I am listing in the OP. Copter and aerial melee still offer great and quick speed to reach enemies, allowing for easier hits, however doesn't send you as far now and might even consume more stamina.

 

and now according to what I want from parkour 2.0, a similar player rushing the same exact level would still spend 5 minutes doing it without relying on copter and aerial melee. With practice and skills, he could make it even shorter just because of newly introduced parkour.

Wasn't talking about you or other pro copter/melee tenno so you wasted your time typing all this :)

 

Don't worry, didn't bother to read it all.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Jinryusai

[Aspari]

 

Just my opinion in a short summary:

Parkour in Warframe was always a combination of melee and normal jump. 

No, it really wasn't. Melee mobility was never a part of the game until someone found coptering, which back then was considered an exploit with the game's physics and weapon attack speed. You could chain a wall-run into a downward ground slam but melee was never integral to parkour. The only parkour we actually did have back then was wall running, and that's not even a quarter of what parkour is all about.

[Aure7]

Wasn't talking about you or other pro copter/melee tenno so you wasted your time typing all this :)

 

Don't worry, didn't bother to read it all.

but you were, read your post again carefully

[Feyangol]

No, it really wasn't. Melee mobility was never a part of the game until someone found coptering, which back then was considered an exploit with the game's physics and weapon attack speed. You could chain a wall-run into a downward ground slam but melee was never integral to parkour. The only parkour we actually did have back then was wall running, and that's not even a quarter of what parkour is all about.

Wallattack, you know it?

Did you do parkour pre coptering? We had a) a faster wallrun and b) we had to use Wallattacks.

And feel free to answer on the rest of my post and not just the first sentence.

[Jinryusai]

Then don't make such a generalized post misconstruing what the quoted person had said.

He said he fears for the future of parkour and you made a large rant about him wanting it removed when what he's talking about is the fact that it completely invalidates the need to parkour anywhere.

That is actually why they want those two maneuvers removed aside from copter looking silly. So he sounds like the rest of them...

[Jinryusai]

but you were, read your post again carefully

"You guys" are references to the anti copter/D. melee group that want them removed.

 

Are ye part of that group?

 

Do ye agree with all of them?

 

Or do ye wish to see everyone combo/blend both parkour and Copter/D. melee beautifully like the pro copter/D. Melee users?

Edited February 8, 2015 by Jinryusai

[taiiat]

once again, Air Copter (it isn't a Melee Attack. period.) and Copter aren't going to disappear. don't ask for something you know you won't get. i think it's as silly as the next person, but it's not going to just up and disappear. focus on something that'll actually happen.

make Parkour more valuable, and then they work together. more things working together makes for something better.

Edited February 8, 2015 by taiiat

[Aspari]

Wallattack, you know it?

Did you do parkour pre coptering? We had a) a faster wallrun and b) we had to use Wallattacks.

And feel free to answer on the rest of my post and not just the first sentence.

I won't be answering the rest because it's an opinion. Part of that opinion is something I agree with, but that's not important.

 

Wallattack was something that was so poorly implemented that people were well off not to use it. To this day it's still nothing good or worth mentioning. I discount it as "melee mobility" because it falls in the same category as the downward slam attack. It's chained from a wall-run but, again, not integral to parkour.

[Aspari]

once again, Air Copter (it isn't a Melee Attack. period.) and Copter aren't going to disappear. don't ask for something you know you won't get. i think it's as silly as the next person, but it's not going to just up and disappear. focus on something that'll actually happen.

make Parkour more valuable, and then they work together. more things working together makes for something better.

Sadly, this. People have wanted coptering gone since 2013 (at least, the vocal forum community back then wanted it gone). It isn't leaving. This is also why I've said DE took the easy way out instead of being creative with mobility.

[Feyangol]

I won't be answering the rest because it's an opinion. Part of that opinion is something I agree with, but that's not important.

 

Wallattack was something that was so poorly implemented that people were well off not to use it. To this day it's still nothing good or worth mentioning. I discount it as "melee mobility" because it falls in the same category as the downward slam attack. It's chained from a wall-run but, again, not integral to parkour.

And that is your opinion ;) .

Wallattacks are part of the movement-system for me, but not for you. Next topic ;) .

[Aspari]

And that is your opinion ;) .

Wallattacks are part of the movement-system for me, but not for you. Next topic ;) .

Using melee for something that isn't melee is stupid, but if that's how you want to define a system then that's your business even if it is wrong. Don't say it's needed when it's not. It's entirely false. 

[Rathkantor]

I find your suggestion to all of your ideas tremendously interesting and would give the game and its parcour the quality it deserves and i hope you will be noticed and rewarded for your hard work you put into your thread here, it is well presented and gives people a general idea what you mean, though still often misunderstood.

The lack if immersive movement is also something that inspired in doing a thread of my own here but not very licked as it sems but i do hope you the best luck.

 

Definitly a bump to your thread.

[Nagisawa]

once again, Air Copter (it isn't a Melee Attack. period.) and Copter aren't going to disappear. don't ask for something you know you won't get. i think it's as silly as the next person, but it's not going to just up and disappear. focus on something that'll actually happen.

make Parkour more valuable, and then they work together. more things working together makes for something better.

As long as Copter exist, NOTHING, and I MEAN NOTHING that DE does with the Parkour will ever take off.  Ever.  It is a waste of resources and money.

[taiiat]

-snip-

making Parkour more intuitive and flowing better isn't about making Players go faster.

we don't need to have a new way to go faster or have bigger Damage Numbers to stroke yourself over in order for it to be good for the game.

Parkour and the two Copters can work together to make a more complete system, which if used skillfully, would actually make Players faster or harder to hit. but improvements to Video Games don't sum up to bigger numbers because raisons. that is rarely the case.

[(PSN)theelix]

As long as Copter exist, NOTHING, and I MEAN NOTHING that DE does with the Parkour will ever take off.  Ever.  It is a waste of resources and money.

You obviously don't understand that there are other people in this world who do things other than coptering. 

[Ryjeon]

As long as Copter exist, NOTHING, and I MEAN NOTHING that DE does with the Parkour will ever take off.  Ever.  It is a waste of resources and money.

 

Parkour is about finding interesting ways to move from point A to point B, whether that is moving through a corridor or attacking an enemy. It's not about finding just the best way to do things. Sometimes the most interesting way is a wall-attack. The fact that it is difficult to connect makes it all the more satisfying when you do pull it off. All of the movement quirks in this game have the capacity to chain together fluidly if you have a practiced understanding of how they all work within the scope of the game's scenarios. This is true too of often under-appreciated elements like the wall-attacks, ledge vaults, and the roll at the end of a fall.

 

What makes a video game parkour system interesting is having access to a variety of options and learning when and how to chain them together in skillful and interesting ways. I myself am constantly vaulting off of walls because it feels fun to me. Using all of the movement tools feels like flying to me and that sense of freedom and mobile expressiveness is exactly why I adore this game. I love running along and initiating a backwards aerial slide-attack into an enemy's neck. I love those moments in time when I know a wall-attack will connect spectacularly. I love flying along the wide open area of Helene at Ludicrous speed Fragor-Coptering as Volt only to initiate a sudden stop and slam into my enemies. To me this experience is the very definition of Warframe. No other game offers such a visceral and frenetic delight. Nothing even comes close.

 

That said I'd be happy to see new additions to the Parkour systems. To see it expanded and streamlined even further with more options more quirks to discover. Warframe to me is a movement sandbox with swords. The idea that its Parkour system will only be successful with less options seems to me preposterous.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Ryjeon

[Mak_Gohae]

As long as Copter exist, NOTHING, and I MEAN NOTHING that DE does with the Parkour will ever take off.  Ever.  It is a waste of resources and money.

 

As long as directional attack exists nothing in parkour is going to do anything.

You can actually fly straight into the direction you want.

Parkour will only make a comeback once they start bringing parkour sections back.

If it's just a straight shot, super mario jumping, parkour servers no purpose with directional attacks.

If there are sections that require a bit more jump then we finally got something going.

[GuerillaGorilla]

I think Mogamu accidentally highlighted one of the problems with the movement system in general in this video: 

 

 

 

Start the video at 7:50 and watch the clunky movement as he's explaining an issue that is effected by the movement system too.

Edited February 9, 2015 by GuerillaGorilla