Shotguns Are Weak, Really Weak

[-Kittens-]

That's accounted for by the lower optimal range, fire rate and ammo capacity of shotguns.

 

The sobek does not have those issues.

[Meatuchu]

My strun wraith laughs at this thread.

[Kazmat]

The sobek does not have those issues.

 

But it has the weakest damage of any shotgun to compensate for the ammo capacity.

 

And it's fire rate is barely higher then the Hek.

 

It trades damage for ammo capacity.

 

It's optimal range is short, just like the other shotguns because of the damage falloff.

[Wahooo]

 

Shotguns need 3 slots to boost base damage up to +270%

Rifles need 2 slots to boost base damage up to +330%

 

 

Realy balanced don't it? And this is not even taking in count damage fallof.

 

But the resources needed (cores mostly) to max out those slots is much less for a shotgun.  They can be more relevant quicker.  Or it was for me since early on shotgun mods were dropping like rain.  enough that I am able to have a few different ranks of things like flechette and point blank so re-leveling after forma was pretty easy.  Maybe i'm just unlucky when it comes to rifle mods but making shotguns viable was MUCH quicker and easier as far as time/resources.

[Wolfstorm18]

My Sobek is doing more damage than Ogris. And my Ogris is equipped with a near maxed-out Serration (one tier to maximum). I even think in selling the Ogris, because its very boring to play with.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Wolfstorm18

[CY13ERPUNK]

OP is crazy

hek/sobek are GREAT weapons and i used them all the time until i got swraith, currently i use swraith just cuz the dmg is sick, but previously my hek worked JUST FINE

this is a classic case of "because i havent seen it or cant imagine it, it must not be the case"

idiot logic (fallacy)

[LukeAura]

you often don't see Shotguns being used because they require a specific set of mods to be effective. making them less appealing to earlier players. and late game players - well, there aren't any Clantech shotguns, or other 'higher tier' shotguns available, so for 'Deeps', Shotguns lose their appeal somewhere around midgame. 

they still have well performing Alpha damage, though.

and many users also don't like the damage falloff.

 

i can shot you how much Hek & Sobek will destroy a high level Grineer boss, despite Impact damage type dealing less damage to Grineer than bullet(which is what the other shotguns use).

 

Sobek is one of the top 10 weapons in Warframe, unbeknowingly to 98% of the Warframe community.

 

Hell's Chamber

Point Blank

Accelerated Blast

Flechette

Blaze

 

use these mods, and your shotgun will be amazingly better.

 

Vicious Spread and Tainted Shell are an option to really crank that Alpha damage on a shotgun. but not 'needed'.

 

shotguns happen to need 5 mods unlike Rifles which only need 3. so they are relatively meh without bells and whistles for mods.

Technically, shotguns need them because they are so good. A shotgun that outperformed any rifle would still use these five mods. 

And I am a fan of tainted shell on wider spread shotguns. 

[MattHarrigan]

Hek, to me, was the most iconic weapon in the game back when it was still strong. Bring back the glory, DE!

 

Can't complain about Boar Prime, at least it has a clip size, but the Hek now has laughable damage for its four round mag.

[Holeypaladin]

Shotguns are freaking amazing.

 

Why?

 

Because of shotgun mods!

 

Sure, rifles now have the corrupted mod that boosts damage.  They NEEDED it because they were simply THAT far behind all the other weapon categories.

 

Look at shotgun mods.  Some of the best damage mods in the game.  Point blank maxes out at 5 ranks... that is the ONLY hindrance for shotgun mods.  Shotguns are tied for the best multishot mod.  They are tied for the best of ALL the basic elemental mods... armor peircing, fire, shock, frost, all the best in their categories.  Shotguns have THE best nightmare mods.  Accelerated blast gives a huge ROF boost and ANOTHER major boost to armor piercing, which is the ONLY damage type that works against high level opponents.  Blaze gives fire damage and boosts the basic damage up into the same general range as a maxed Serration mod.

 

The only rifle that outshines the sheer damage of a strun wraith is the Soma, because the Soma is an amazing weapon that takes advantage of crit mods (which are the only kind of mods rifles had over shotguns before the new corrupted mod).  Strun wraith was the very best weapon in the game before Soma replaced it.

 

The only real problem, is that most shotgun weapons are fairly low on the mastery scale, and none of them are clan tech.  If the Ignis were turned into a shotgun (which makes sense honestly), with all other attributes constant, it would be scary powerful.

[yeomanry]

You're not accounting for the significantly higher base damage that shotguns have

 

She's not even calculating the Luck of Crit Chance, Dmg and Multi-Shot + Elemental Critic.

 

OP has no Idea that God-Crafted Shotgun (like a potatoed Strun Wraith) can One-Shot a Non-Rhino/Frost/Saryn User.

Edited October 19, 2013 by yeomanry

[yeomanry]

Other than that. The Internet sentences the OP to a Free Beiber Concert. Let him Suffer!

[low1991]

Honestly... all the shotguns, exept the Strun Wraith are really weak, and there is no way to get the strun wraith... maybe a little improve to all the shotguns will be cool

 

Noone plays with shotguns... 95% of the games I've played had not shotguns... and the reason is simple, they all are a bunch of useless

 

Not flamming!, i love to play with rifles, but a decent shotgun in my inventory would be great... also see more styles of gameplay... not only rifles users

Strun Wraith is still a shortgun...

full raw DMG mod + max mutlishot except for Blaze shows me 1.1k dmg on arsenal UI.

[LtZefar]

Shotguns are weak? Since when?

 

Hek is still valuable and it will stun any heavy unit it hits. It has the tightest spread of all shotguns and least fall off damage. Sure the Strun Wraith wins in several parts but that doesn't make Hek completely useless. You can get it up to 6 ammo as well which is what you should do. It still has a high base damage as well.

 

If they where to be made any stronger than that shotguns would just be too OP. Ammo is of no problem for Hek and Strun Wraith, didn't use Sobek that much but if you just buff the damage it'll be fine because you won't need to fire that much to kill someone.

 

I've found most rifles to be doing less damage than shotguns too. Even Soma does crap damage against Ancients. Strun Wraith? Naah it rips them apart.

I even had the Critical build on Soma but against Ancient it didn't do much. My damage was reduced to something less than 20-30 due to low piercing damage mods.

[low1991]

cut

+1

my highest DPS or DMG to ever boss is shortgun.

[MattHarrigan]

Shotguns are weak? Since when?

 

Hek is still valuable and it will stun any heavy unit it hits. It has the tightest spread of all shotguns and least fall off damage. Sure the Strun Wraith wins in several parts but that doesn't make Hek completely useless. You can get it up to 6 ammo as well which is what you should do. It still has a high base damage as well.

 

All of this is true, but still, Hek has been nerfed severely and compared to more recent weapons, it lacks a lot. Again, it has been one of the strongest weapons in the game; and now almost noone uses it anymore, despite its large fanbase.

[fatpig84]

Hek could use 8 pellets (instead of 7) and drop off removal.
Then Uncle Hek WILL be a challenge because anyone who has a brain stays hella far away and he is currently neutered.

[SnPlasmic]

My strun wraith laughs at this thread.

I know 

[lolRebel]

They also absolutely require five forma for maxed mods. Contrast that with any rifle which works almost as well off three, especially crit rifles.

 

You can fit all the "needed" shotgun dmg mods (6 total) with simply a level 30 and catalyst shotgun, no Forma needed. The last 2 mods (either reload speed, bane, cyro, ammo or whatever) are more for utility. Then you'll need like 3-5 Forma to fit those on.

 

Shotgun mods also max easier compared to Rifle/Secondary.

 

@OP, get a Sobek and mod it properly and enjoy. Its still perfectly viable and good. 

[milkor88]

Strun is still viable too, 700++ base damage after i put the same mod from my straith (Blaze, Point Blank, Acc Blast, Flechette, Hell's Chamber)

[Mak_Gohae]

Strun is still viable too, 700++ base damage after i put the same mod from my straith (Blaze, Point Blank, Acc Blast, Flechette, Hell's Chamber)

 

Shotguns are close range weapons, you are supposed to run on people faces and blow them away. And, yeah, the normal Strun kicks butt, the Wraith is better, of course, but with the Strun you can still one-shot a lot of stuff at close range.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[TheBrok3n]

Shotguns are not weak and here's why,

 

Shotguns have high base damage

Not really rocket science, the top 3 shotguns(Swraith, Hek, Sobek) all do greater or equal damage to the sniper rifle average. Shotguns don't really need to be aimed the way you would aim a sniper rifle and the fact that they compare to snipers damage wise means that the rifles are left in the dust.

 

Shotguns have the best mods in the game

This one is a bit subjective I must admit, but I am referring to the damage mods for shotguns in general. The nightmare mods for shotguns are Blaze and Accelerated Blast, both of which have all the "right" effects for weapons under damage 1.0; namely AP and FR for AB and Fire and Damage for Blaze. This combined with 120% multishot, and 90% AP mods mean that shotguns are on par with pistols for the best mods and you can equip a pistol in addition to your shotgun making it a win-win situation. Shotguns have 120% MS 150% Damage 150% AP 60% FR and 60% Fire after 2 NM mods, Hell's Chamber, Flechette and Point Blank. Which other weapon has more than 90% AP?

 

The innate weaknesses of Shotguns can be easily overcome

Shotguns have the disadvantage of having a large spread, damage falloff over distance and a small clip size(in general). Simply put, shotguns are not good beyond a certain range. This is the easiest disadvantage to overcome, don't try to shoot thing beyond that range. Sometimes weapons suit a playstyle and sometimes playstyles suit a weapon. Closing the distance between you and your target means effectively plays into the strengths of the shotgun. If that is not your playstyle then consider using a sniper rifle because the shotguns is a close-range weapon. Overcoming a small clip size is also a disadvantage that can be overcome with changes to your playstyle. If the long reload of most shotguns is your bane, consider trading that firerate mod for a reload speed increase one. If its the clip size, ditto for a clip size increase mod. Losing the firerate mod also give you more time to aim between shots and hopefully improve your accuracy and ammo efficiency as well. Personally I prefer to kill everything in sight before having to reload.

 

Now if I have not convinced you that shotguns are not weak by now, drop the strun and pick up the soma because shotguns aren't the weapons for you.

[modded]

Shotguns are not weak and here's why,

 

Shotguns have high base damage

Not really rocket science, the top 3 shotguns(Swraith, Hek, Sobek) all do greater or equal damage to the sniper rifle average. Shotguns don't really need to be aimed the way you would aim a sniper rifle and the fact that they compare to snipers damage wise means that the rifles are left in the dust.

 

Shotguns have the best mods in the game

This one is a bit subjective I must admit, but I am referring to the damage mods for shotguns in general. The nightmare mods for shotguns are Blaze and Accelerated Blast, both of which have all the "right" effects for weapons under damage 1.0; namely AP and FR for AB and Fire and Damage for Blaze. This combined with 120% multishot, and 90% AP mods mean that shotguns are on par with pistols for the best mods and you can equip a pistol in addition to your shotgun making it a win-win situation. Shotguns have 120% MS 150% Damage 150% AP 60% FR and 60% Fire after 2 NM mods, Hell's Chamber, Flechette and Point Blank. Which other weapon has more than 90% AP?

 

The innate weaknesses of Shotguns can be easily overcome

Shotguns have the disadvantage of having a large spread, damage falloff over distance and a small clip size(in general). Simply put, shotguns are not good beyond a certain range. This is the easiest disadvantage to overcome, don't try to shoot thing beyond that range. Sometimes weapons suit a playstyle and sometimes playstyles suit a weapon. Closing the distance between you and your target means effectively plays into the strengths of the shotgun. If that is not your playstyle then consider using a sniper rifle because the shotguns is a close-range weapon. Overcoming a small clip size is also a disadvantage that can be overcome with changes to your playstyle. If the long reload of most shotguns is your bane, consider trading that firerate mod for a reload speed increase one. If its the clip size, ditto for a clip size increase mod. Losing the firerate mod also give you more time to aim between shots and hopefully improve your accuracy and ammo efficiency as well. Personally I prefer to kill everything in sight before having to reload.

 

Now if I have not convinced you that shotguns are not weak by now, drop the strun and pick up the soma because shotguns aren't the weapons for you.

What you fail to account for is that often snipers>shotguns (excluding strun wraith) because snipers do more actual damage due to 1 projectile where as shotguns lose damage as pellets miss, and so snipers act like a slug shotty with infinite rage. Good at ALL ranges. And please tell me that 90% damage is better that rifle's 165%.

 

I love shotguns, they aren't terribly weak. But there are no shotties w/ AI (making them useless at super high levels), and the mods aren't the best.

 

And the general consensus is that rocket launcher > shotgun. :/

[CountLePoof]

And the general consensus is that rocket launcher > shotgun. :/

 

Yeah the world is going crazy when things like that happen..

[Xephex]

Useless? You sure need to visit the Conclaves or rather try 100+ missions. You need to climb the ladders dear. AND...

 

You need a slap from Potatoed Strun Wraith mate. You need the bitter taste of being One-Shot.

Good luck getting in range with a shotgun in conclaves. You get a rocket to the face before you even get out of the start room...

[TheBrok3n]

What you fail to account for is that often snipers>shotguns (excluding strun wraith) because snipers do more actual damage due to 1 projectile where as shotguns lose damage as pellets miss, and so snipers act like a slug shotty with infinite rage. Good at ALL ranges. And please tell me that 90% damage is better that rifle's 165%.

 

I love shotguns, they aren't terribly weak. But there are no shotties w/ AI (making them useless at super high levels), and the mods aren't the best.

 

And the general consensus is that rocket launcher > shotgun. :/

 

You have a point.

 

Warframe weapons are all subjective anyway. The MK-1 Braton is actually better than the Soma because it has faster reload