Fan Augment Mods(?) for Wisp

[-Bluhman-]

'Cause she needs more and certainly needs ones more useful than the strange... sniper specific one of Critical Surge. Given how flexible Wisp is, it's probably not a high-priority to be adding more of these but they'd still be real nice to explore the different ways to allow Wisp to focus more on her different potentials.

Don't know if this is the right place for this since it's somewhere between the outright creative elements of coming up with an entirely new weapon/warframe and balance suggestions.

(exact numbers excluded for balance reasons for those actually versed in those metrics)

Ghostly Guile
Will-O-Wisp Augment: Activated out of combat, Will-O-Wisp's spectral image will be invisible if she is airborne. Tap activation can pilfer rare drops from enemies it bumps into with a xx% success rate. Holding Will-O-Wisp will cause the spectral image to always be invisible, even in combat.

Focus Reservoirs
Reservoir Augment: Reduces the number of reservoirs that Wisp can summon to 1 of each type. In exchange, resummoning a Reservoir that is already present costs only xx% of the default value, and increases their radius by xx%.

Bright Flame
Disables Wisp's passive, increases ability strength by xx% and her ability efficiency by xx%

[(PSN)Deeceem]

I wouldn't use any of them since I don't see the use case for any of them.

If I want extra loot I don't play Wisp I don't think the augment would change that. That's only under the premise that I doubt DE would implement a loot ability that guarantees extra loot to be rare and it would be just a regular extra loot chance. Also "activated out of combat" mid-air - what does that mean? How do you use that effectively? Seems oddly complicated and clunky.

The reservoir one... why? Her energy economy is already good since she rarely has to recast motes and you don't use her 4 because it's a waste of energy. That leaves more range at the cost of having less motes. At which point I might as well mod Stretch instead of the augment and keep my motes and increase the range of my other abilities too.

Her passive is busted good. Why would I replace an option to have free-perma stealth for some measly extra power strength or efficiency (assuming the numbers aren't astronomically high) which I can once again just achieve by modding power strength instead of the augment that makes me lose her crazy passive? 

I might not see it but I don't get how these would be worth a mod slot personaly. I'd really need a pointer towards everyday gameplay examples or even niche-y ones where they'd be useful or issues Wisp has they would alter or help with.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

For her wisp augment id make it no longer turn her invis on cast, fire up to 3 wisp, and have all of them half enemies health that they go through, a little like old viral procs.

For her res, id make it to where she will simply carry all 3 of them for a duration with greater range. The downside would be allies who exut the range would have a significantly shorter duration than normal of carrying the buffs.

Passive no change

Her ultimate id change to something that simply the opposite and deal damage like cold, magnetic, and viral to deal with shield and health as opposed to armor that heat and corrosive is better against.

Idk about her 3rd ability yet, i gtg

[-Bluhman-]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Deeceem said:

I wouldn't use any of them since I don't see the use case for any of them.

I shall explain them then.

2 hours ago, (PSN)Deeceem said:

If I want extra loot I don't play Wisp I don't think the augment would change that. That's only under the premise that I doubt DE would implement a loot ability that guarantees extra loot to be rare and it would be just a regular extra loot chance. Also "activated out of combat" mid-air - what does that mean? How do you use that effectively? Seems oddly complicated and clunky.

The point isn't for the extra loot thing. To be honest, that was just added as a way to have any part of the augment scale so that it could be ranked up. Otherwise, without that aspect, every other part of the augment is binary.

The point, though, is to make her Will-O-Wisp ability usable in more stealth situations, because casting it to begin with will put enemies in an alerted state. That precludes you from being able to leverage the ability in situations such as: trying to get a no-alarm bonus on a Rescue mission, maintaining a stealth-kill affinity bonus, or ensuring that enemies remain elligible for a stealth kill.

"out of combat" is whenever there are no enemies actively attacking you, though I'll agree it's a little bit ambiguous. The same turn-of-phrase is used in the Naramon tree's "Power Spike" ability, which isn't exactly true to what it actually means (which is basically whenever your combo meter runs out.)

"mid-air" means when Wisp is in midair. As in, whenever her passive ability kicks in. If she herself is invisible, why not make the will-o-wisp effect invisible as well if she activates it then?

2 hours ago, (PSN)Deeceem said:

The reservoir one... why? Her energy economy is already good since she rarely has to recast motes and you don't use her 4 because it's a waste of energy. That leaves more range at the cost of having less motes. At which point I might as well mod Stretch instead of the augment and keep my motes and increase the range of my other abilities too.

This is for more mobile missions where the value of having 6 reservoirs is limited by the fact that you're not always in one spot. A draft of this included a concept of having the Reservoirs slowly follow Wisp around, but then that would usually result in all of the Reservoirs converging into one point. Regardless, maybe a player doesn't want a cluttered minimap in those cases, or they do, in fact, have a use case for Sol Gate for a particular reason.

Interestingly related to Sol Gate I was also considering another augment that would allow the beam to basically split and reflect off of reservoirs and the will-o-wisp image to hit in an AoE, but felt like that'd be a bit many augments for an already solid warframe, so it was left out. Might be worth incorporating here.

 

2 hours ago, (PSN)Deeceem said:

Her passive is busted good. Why would I replace an option to have free-perma stealth for some measly extra power strength or efficiency (assuming the numbers aren't astronomically high) which I can once again just achieve by modding power strength instead of the augment that makes me lose her crazy passive? 

If you've found some way in which the passive helps in defense missions, where enemies are already placing pretty high priority on hitting something other than you, I'm all ears, because otherwise this is an augment that's perfect for those situations. That said, Wisp is fairly sturdy (and becomes moreso when using 1) and still has the ability to go dark with ability 2. Meanwhile this makes her motes and sol gate more powerful, and her breach surge more reliably usable.

Also, augments like this (compare with Nezha's Controlled Slide) become a way to stack an augment mod's bonus like this with mods that are dedicated to buffing the same stat.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

8 minutes ago, -Bluhman- said:

you've found some way in which the passive helps in defense missions, where enemies are already placing pretty high priority on hitting something other than you, I'm all ears, because otherwise this is an augment that's perfect for those situations.

Thats not the problem though as you still have to consider that your augment takes up a mod slot. Theres so many better mods for wisp than 15% efficency (primed flow) or 15% power strength

Its way too much competition

[(PSN)Deeceem]

Thanks for your response. Nice to see that you put a lot of thought into it even if I might still disagree with some of it.

I asked for niche-y and that's what your reason for the first augment is - to me. Maybe that's just a difference in playstyles between us. I'll drop my disagreement though. You explained it well enough that I could see other people use it.

I somewhat see where your reservoir idea comes from now. I still think it's not worth a mod slot personaly.

The person above me made already a good point regarding your passive augment reasoning.

But hey, thanks for taking the time to explain your thought processes. For what it's worth you changed my opinion by 33.3% so to speak at least. Not that my opinion on that matters to begin with.

[(PSN)M00n_Slippers]

Hm, I agree an augment to make her reservoirs work better in mobile missions would be good. Here's what I would do:

Reservoirs Augment: Reservoirs are now an active buff on Wisp with 200% duration (so base time is now 60 sec instead of 30). Allies who enter the reservoir range around Wisp pick up the buff at the base reservoir duration.

This is a way to move the reservoirs with you, basically, and get a nice duration buff. The trade off is you do have to recast it and it's slightly more difficult for allies to pick up the buff since they have to run to you instead of a central point that isn't moving, but if you're solo this is ideal, I think. With the duration buff you don't have to cast it as often, which is what you're basically doing when in a mobile mission every time you need to top up anyway, because you already left your reservoirs behind. With the duration buff you can probably invest a lot less in duration and add range for your Breach Surge, Will'o Wisp or Helminth abilities as well.

Making her Will 'o Wisp a stealth ability is a really great idea! I'm not sure I agree with the particular way you've decided to do it though. I would make it more simple. Here is what I would do:

Will o' Wisp Augment: After casting Will o' Wisp, Wisp becomes invisible for 5 sec (effected by duration). Finisher damage +100%

Simple, but effective. I say five seconds because having Wisp get an augment for invisibility that's longer than Ash's base invisibility move is...sad for Ash. And really just 10 seconds on demand is quite nice, which is easy to get on Wisp since a lot of people mod her with duration anyway for her reservoirs. The finisher damage is a little bonus, if you want to use the invisibility as something other than an oh $hit emergency move or a spy mission aid. The Specter remains visible as a distraction for enemies which isn't the best for spy missions, but you can just cast it in a wall or out of sight and then use the stealth to run past or do a stealth finisher.

While we're here I've got an idea for a Breach Surge Augment.

Breach Surge Augment: For the duration of Breach Surge, Wisp has a 50% chance to release a spark when she takes damage. Sparks from Wisp blind enemies.

Breach Surge is already awesome, but one thing I dislike about it is that the line-of-sight restriction and the fact that Wisp is often modded for low range means it doesn't feel very effective on maps with lots of obstacles or enemies that are far apart. With this augment, she can spread sparks by taking damage from the enemies that weren't effected (i.e. they didn't get blinded). Usually taking damage to activate something is not ideal especially in high level play but with Wisp's Reservoirs to keep her health high, it's not a bad trade off. Having the sparks blind enemies is sort of a balancing system. One, it helps protect Wisp from getting hit again and taking damage, Two it prevents passive play by just standing there and letting enemies murder themselves with sparks by hitting you over and over. While that would be funny and enjoyable for a while it doesn't fit with DE's intentions for warframe. So if they don't die from the first spark you have to put the damage in to spark it yourself.

For Wisp I think her weakest ability is her Ult/fourth ability, Sol Gate.

Sol Gate Augment: Sol Gate now does a cone of Heat and Radiation damage with 200% status chance on cast, costing 75 energy and lasting 3 sec (effected by duration).

(Notes: damage is effectively the same as energy boosted base version, procing damage and now also status tics every 0.5 seconds, but the AOE is much wider, comparable to Frost's Ice Wave. Duration adds more tics of damage. The Corrosive tics you get when you have Haste Mote are conserved.)

The energy drain for damage that quickly becomes useless in high tier missions isn't great. Making it a single cast ability is much better for such missions. The move is less about the damage, although now that it has status it does scale better, it's more about stat spreading, and also functions as crowd control with the Radiation Procs. Granted, Wisp doesn't necessarily need this, since Breach Surge is already a great move for CC and for a damage bonus, but at least it makes this move useful for something. While you would be kind of crazy to Helminth away Breach Surge, if you did then this move could now pick up the slack in softening up enemies and crowd control.

 

[Gashabae]

5 hours ago, (PSN)M00n_Slippers said:

Wisp with 200% duration (so base time is now 60 sec instead of 30)

Which is it? Does the augment have an innate +100% duration or is the base duration actually 60s? The difference being how duration mods scale. If the base is still 30s Continuity with a 30% modifier will increase duration by 9s, while a base of 60s would increase the duration by 21s. Maybe I'm being a bit pedantic with your wording, but if you mean the latter, there are some serious issues scaling wise (i.e. 306% duration with 60s base would result in a 184s mote duration).

5 hours ago, (PSN)M00n_Slippers said:

Will o' Wisp Augment: After casting Will o' Wisp, Wisp becomes invisible for 5 sec (effected by duration). Finisher damage +100%

Simple, but effective. I say five seconds because having Wisp get an augment for invisibility that's longer than Ash's base invisibility move is...sad for Ash. And really just 10 seconds on demand is quite nice, which is easy to get on Wisp since a lot of people mod her with duration anyway for her reservoirs. The finisher damage is a little bonus, if you want to use the invisibility as something other than an oh $hit emergency move or a spy mission aid. The Specter remains visible as a distraction for enemies which isn't the best for spy missions, but you can just cast it in a wall or out of sight and then use the stealth to run past or do a stealth finisher.

While we're here I've got an idea for a Breach Surge Augment.

Wil-o-wisp already provides 4s of invisibility.

5 hours ago, (PSN)M00n_Slippers said:

Breach Surge Augment: For the duration of Breach Surge, Wisp has a 50% chance to release a spark when she takes damage. Sparks from Wisp blind enemies.

Breach Surge is already awesome, but one thing I dislike about it is that the line-of-sight restriction and the fact that Wisp is often modded for low range means it doesn't feel very effective on maps with lots of obstacles or enemies that are far apart. With this augment, she can spread sparks by taking damage from the enemies that weren't effected (i.e. they didn't get blinded). Usually taking damage to activate something is not ideal especially in high level play but with Wisp's Reservoirs to keep her health high, it's not a bad trade off. Having the sparks blind enemies is sort of a balancing system. One, it helps protect Wisp from getting hit again and taking damage, Two it prevents passive play by just standing there and letting enemies murder themselves with sparks by hitting you over and over. While that would be funny and enjoyable for a while it doesn't fit with DE's intentions for warframe. So if they don't die from the first spark you have to put the damage in to spark it yourself.

For Wisp I think her weakest ability is her Ult/fourth ability, Sol Gate.

Having a guaranteed chance of releasing a spark with a lower chance of blinding (10-15%) seems more appropriate, but I can see either side. Overall pretty nice.

5 hours ago, (PSN)M00n_Slippers said:

Sol Gate Augment: Sol Gate now does a cone of Heat and Radiation damage with 200% status chance on cast, costing 75 energy and lasting 3 sec (effected by duration).

(Notes: damage is effectively the same as energy boosted base version, procing damage and now also status tics every 0.5 seconds, but the AOE is much wider, comparable to Frost's Ice Wave. Duration adds more tics of damage. The Corrosive tics you get when you have Haste Mote are conserved.)

The energy drain for damage that quickly becomes useless in high tier missions isn't great. Making it a single cast ability is much better for such missions. The move is less about the damage, although now that it has status it does scale better, it's more about stat spreading, and also functions as crowd control with the Radiation Procs. Granted, Wisp doesn't necessarily need this, since Breach Surge is already a great move for CC and for a damage bonus, but at least it makes this move useful for something. While you would be kind of crazy to Helminth away Breach Surge, if you did then this move could now pick up the slack in softening up enemies and crowd control.

Seems like the Resonating Quake treatment and I'm definitely here for it.

[(PSN)M00n_Slippers]

12 minutes ago, Gashabae said:

Which is it? Does the augment have an innate +100% duration or is the base duration actually 60s? The difference being how duration mods scale. If the base is still 30s Continuity with a 30% modifier will increase duration by 9s, while a base of 60s would increase the duration by 21s. Maybe I'm being a bit pedantic with your wording, but if you mean the latter, there are some serious issues scaling wise (i.e. 306% duration with 60s base would result in a 184s mote duration).

Hm, maybe just +30 secs to duration (the additional doesn't scale, it's a flat thirty sec on top of the scaling base) then, rather than +100% duration or base 60s. Maybe it should be even less like 20s, but I think it has to be a decent amount to make it worth while to use this augment, since the base reservoirs are essentially infinite and you're taking that away. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point in using it. I think one of the nice things about an augment like this is that it lessens the need for duration mods on her so you can invest a lot more into range, and usually wisp builds are high duration, high strength, and that means Breach Surge isn't as useful as it should be.

13 minutes ago, Gashabae said:

Will-o-wisp already provides 4s of invisibility.

Yeah, but it isn't effected by duration. Maybe it can be upped to the same as Ash's base, 8 sec. I feel bad giving it anymore, though 10-15 would be nice. I get 15s from the Parazon augment and it's usually enough for me to do most of a spy vault right there. So if it's castable on command I think it being relatively short is okay. Maybe finisher damage should be increased to make it more desirable or give it some other desirable effect. Tobe honest I've never tried using Wisp for spy vaults, really. Can her teleport go through Lazer grids? If not, giving it that effect could be nice too, though finisher damage is more versatile.

[Gashabae]

7 hours ago, (PSN)M00n_Slippers said:

Yeah, but it isn't effected by duration. Maybe it can be upped to the same as Ash's base, 8 sec. I feel bad giving it anymore, though 10-15 would be nice. I get 15s from the Parazon augment and it's usually enough for me to do most of a spy vault right there. So if it's castable on command I think it being relatively short is okay. Maybe finisher damage should be increased to make it more desirable or give it some other desirable effect. Tobe honest I've never tried using Wisp for spy vaults, really. Can her teleport go through Lazer grids? If not, giving it that effect could be nice too, though finisher damage is more versatile.

I'd double check the wiki because it says...

Quote

Wisp fades between dimensions, cloaking herself and her Companion from enemy eyes while spawning a spectral copy of herself that flies toward the last position of the reticle when activated. The spectral clone draws the attention and fire from nearby enemies. Wisp's cloak and clone both last for 2.5 / 3 / 3.5 / 4 seconds.

and the 4 seconds is modifiable via duration. This would mean the invis lasts for as long as the clone and both the clone and the invis increase with duration, which seems to makes the most sense rather than having an invis timer separate from the clone. Don't forget her passive already provides what is essentially a free Prowl (if everything broke stealth).

7 hours ago, (PSN)M00n_Slippers said:

Hm, maybe just +30 secs to duration (the additional doesn't scale, it's a flat thirty sec on top of the scaling base) then, rather than +100% duration or base 60s. Maybe it should be even less like 20s, but I think it has to be a decent amount to make it worth while to use this augment, since the base reservoirs are essentially infinite and you're taking that away. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point in using it. I think one of the nice things about an augment like this is that it lessens the need for duration mods on her so you can invest a lot more into range, and usually wisp builds are high duration, high strength, and that means Breach Surge isn't as useful as it should be.

So long as it isn't 60s base the scaling issue is solved.

You're right about what makes the augment nice, take Magnetized Discharge for example, it adds +45% range to Magnetize along side its effects which allows less of a focus on range on certain builds. This augment does the same. It's why the +xx% [stat] augments are so great, they make up for the mod slot they take up and more.

[(PSN)M00n_Slippers]

Hm, yes I see it is quite redundant. I don't use Wisps 2nd much myself, and half the time the passive doesn't activate like it should for me in console, but I have seen some people use it for stealth shenanigans before.

Neither of our ideas really changed much about the ability or added something useful enough to justify a mod. Apparently mine were completely redundant. Maybe we need to go in a whole different direction.

I'm not sure what Wisp even needs though, she pretty dang good really.

Maybe just like using her Will o Wisp gives her 90% bullet evasion that fades over 25s.