Wisp augment

[ZXVI]

Please inform me about how dumb I'm being.

Wisp is currently my favourite frame, especially her passive invisibility. However, why can't there be an augment that allows Wisp to fire guns and maintain her passive? I don't care how high the polarity is, if such a mod existed it will be such a good qol improvement. Why couldn't it exist?

[Venus-Venera]

how do you mean that exactly?
the only thing I would have wished for: if I use a buff and there is already the same buff in the radius, then the remaining 2 buffs will be cast. So by pressing the button twice, I want to be able to cast a complete set.

because otherwise I only use speed. or with defs just a complete set.

[ZXVI]

11 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

how do you mean that exactly?
the only thing I would have wished for: if I use a buff and there is already the same buff in the radius, then the remaining 2 buffs will be cast. So by pressing the button twice, I want to be able to cast a complete set.

because otherwise I only use speed. or with defs just a complete set.

Well, wisp's passive turns off if you fire a primary or secondary weapon. I was wondering why there can't be an augment that will remove this handicap so that you can shoot things while in the air without losing the passive. (Even having a massive polarity requirement is fine as long as it exists imo)

Sorry about being blunt, but this question is completely unrelated bto any other potential augments that one may want for wisp

[Zeddypanda]

I guess DE just wants everyone to use gunblades and glaives.

[quxier]

7 minutes ago, ZXVI said:

Well, wisp's passive turns off if you fire a primary or secondary weapon. I was wondering why there can't be an augment that will remove this handicap so that you can shoot things while in the air without losing the passive. (Even having a massive polarity requirement is fine as long as it exists imo)

Being able to shoot all the time without being seen... don't you think it's a "little" too strong?

[ZXVI]

7 minutes ago, Zeddypanda said:

I guess DE just wants everyone to use gunblades and glaives.

Which is nice, glaives are fun, but playing wisp now basically means I never play with guns cause I'm always in the air, at which point shooting is literally a disadvantage sometimes

[ZXVI]

3 minutes ago, quxier said:

Being able to shoot all the time without being seen... don't you think it's a "little" too strong?

Good point, but surely there can be some workaround such as a restriction which significantly increases glide gravity if you have it equipped so you literally can't stay in the air. Point is, why can't some variation of shooting in the air be an option? At least, why can't it be an augment to allow silenced weapons to do so?

[Venus-Venera]

Gerade eben schrieb quxier:

Being able to shoot all the time without being seen... don't you think it's a "little" too strong?

why that? there are loki etc.
or inairos with adaptation and panzer pet with max damage and healing for warframe. then you can even take a shower in SP. (no joke)

invisibility requires movement. for me it makes no difference whether I press a skill with 1+ minute cooldown or keep jumping.

[ZXVI]

8 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

why that? there are loki etc.
or inairos with adaptation and panzer pet with max damage and healing for warframe. then you can even take a shower in SP. (no joke)

invisibility requires movement. for me it makes no difference whether I press a skill with 1+ minute cooldown or keep jumping.

From my noobish experience playing wisp, you don't even get a lot of time in midair even with aim glide augments, maybe enough to get in one or two headshots. I just felt that if I didn't lose invisibility whenever I shot someone, it can let me enjoy gunplay more by timing my jumps with more calmly placed headshots or something.

Also, it will literally be the same combat style as what I can currently do with a glaives, and maybe even weaker because with xoris I can nuke a large area with no enemy ever realising I was there

[quxier]

7 minutes ago, ZXVI said:

Good point, but surely there can be some workaround such as a restriction which significantly increases glide gravity if you have it equipped so you literally can't stay in the air

If you reduce gravity then you make it useless without mods/companion.

If you want to use this augment you make mods/companion a "must have". And we are at starting point.

 

And there is restriction already, which you don't like, a "shooting turns off invisibility".

 

16 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

why that? there are loki etc.

Probably all "invisible" frames have some cost/limits. Ivara cannot run/shoot. Loki has low duration. Shade is broken. Undertow has HUGE energy per meter (put Vial rush on it and you will see), is slow and cannot use weapons. Skiajati requires finisher and lasts only for 5 seconds.

And don't forget about Moas. My "Levita" (moa with levitation augment) I could stay in the air for a long time.

26 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

or inairos with adaptation and panzer pet with max damage and healing for warframe. then you can even take a shower in SP. (no joke)

And there is Xaku that could just melt some "high level" enemies doing almost nothing.

Doing such things they will make enemies (especially bosses) much harder. Not sure about you but I don't want bullet sponge enemies.

29 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

invisibility requires movement. for me it makes no difference whether I press a skill with 1+ minute cooldown or keep jumping.

It doesn't requires movement. You could cloak yourself using ivara not touching WSAD keys.

And distinction between cooldowns, energy based abilities and other restriction is important. Without energy Ivara cannot be invisible. Making huge cooldowns changes game into "waiting" game. And with Wisp you need 2 things: don't shoot & stay in the air.

31 minutes ago, ZXVI said:

From my noobish experience playing wisp, you don't even get a lot of time in midair even with aim glide augments, maybe enough to get in one or two headshots. I just felt that if I didn't lose invisibility whenever I shot someone, it can let me enjoy gunplay more by timing my jumps with more calmly placed headshots or something.

You know that if you don't touch ground for too long you will stay invisible?

I honestly don't know how "normal" weapons would work. I use things that doesn't require constant shooting (or melees) or I shoot them while they shouldn't fight back.

ps. abilities won't deactivate invisibility

44 minutes ago, ZXVI said:

Also, it will literally be the same combat style as what I can currently do with a glaives, and maybe even weaker because with xoris I can nuke a large area with no enemy ever realising I was there

I don't think so. I don't use most weapons but there should be some that would "break the game".

[ZXVI]

4 hours ago, quxier said:

If you reduce gravity then you make it useless without mods/companion.

If you want to use this augment you make mods/companion a "must have". And we are at starting point.

 

And there is restriction already, which you don't like, a "shooting turns off invisibility".

 

This is literally what I'm asking. Why can't there be an augment that replaces the restriction of "shooting turns off invisibility" with some other restriction, so that you CAN shoot and remain invisible. The restriction I have was just an example.

4 hours ago, quxier said:

Probably all "invisible" frames have some cost/limits. Ivara cannot run/shoot. Loki has low duration. Shade is broken. Undertow has HUGE energy per meter (put Vial rush on it and you will see), is slow and cannot use weapons. Skiajati requires finisher and lasts only for 5 seconds.

And don't forget about Moas. My "Levita" (moa with levitation augment) I could stay in the air for a long time.

And wisp's invisibility cost is that she must be in midair and cannot shoot while doing it. Again, what I'm suggesting is to replace one of these "costs" with something else. As another example, since you used the example of moas that allow for long levitation, replace the "shooting in midair turns off invisibility" restriction with a "you are only invisible for a few seconds midair unless you touch the ground" restriction. Doesn't that ensure that it still has a cost? In no way did I ever say I wanted an augment that turns off the restriction without a cost.

5 hours ago, quxier said:

It doesn't requires movement. You could cloak yourself using ivara not touching WSAD keys.

And distinction between cooldowns, energy based abilities and other restriction is important. Without energy Ivara cannot be invisible. Making huge cooldowns changes game into "waiting" game. And with Wisp you need 2 things: don't shoot & stay in the air

And so you rebutted yourself again. Like you said, there are distinctions between invisiblities. With Ivara, Loki and Octavia, you can click some buttons and be free to do whatever for half a minute. With Wisp, you must always be in midair and not shooting to get the advantage. That means the only things you can do with invisible wisp is traverse maps without aggroing a single enemy, briefly exiting battle to recuperate, and using ranged melee. So why not add an augment that removes one of these advantages one exchange for the ability to shoot and remain invisible? Like what I said above, maybe have a time limit on the invisibility, reducing the speed at which wisp can travel by forcing her to make small bunny hops instead of long aim glides, and in exchange allow her to be more offensive by being able to shoot while invisible. It still ensures that wisp's playstyle is completely different to the other invisibility frames, and also means that she is still weaker than frames than can go invisible for a long time at a press of a button and sufficient energy (zenurik)

5 hours ago, quxier said:

You know that if you don't touch ground for too long you will stay invisible?

I honestly don't know how "normal" weapons would work. I use things that doesn't require constant shooting (or melees) or I shoot them while they shouldn't fight back.

ps. abilities won't deactivate invisibility

Well, maybe you don't use normal weapons, but others (like me) really want to try out shooting weapons but if by doing so it removes one of the advantages of the frame your using, it sort of makes these weapons seem really undesirable doesnt it? Also, I never mentioned that abilities will turn off abilities. Why? Because none of wisp's abilities really needs her passive! Her one is a place and forget buff, her two grants wisp invisibility for the few seconds it's active, her three is a blind and her four won't even let her jump!

5 hours ago, quxier said:

I don't think so. I don't use most weapons but there should be some that would "break the game"

What? Think about what I said for a moment. The xoris is a thrown melee, so it won't turn off invisibility. It's alt fire does an explotion with a pretty good radius. It can build up combo without a time limit so you can run mods that increase combo count while sacrificing combo duration, getting X12 combo in the blink of an eye. Wisp's passive won't be turned off by thrown melees. You can literally just run around, throw the xoris a few times, build up even a X2 combo, alt fire and there, massive damage in an aoe, without any enemy ever noticing you were there. As an example, I literally got top damage by a long yard once in a sortie defence with only wisp and xoris simply by doing the above, while everyone else was ten or twenty mastery ranks higher, and the only time I ever took damage (and died) was when I stopped jumping for five seconds to write something and got rushed. Let's face it, the melee in the game is already broken, and at this point allowing wisp to use guns invisible may be seen as a downgrade

[quxier]

1 hour ago, ZXVI said:

This is literally what I'm asking. Why can't there be an augment that replaces the restriction of "shooting turns off invisibility" with some other restriction, so that you CAN shoot and remain invisible. The restriction I have was just an example.

Ok, ok.

1 hour ago, ZXVI said:

And wisp's invisibility cost is that she must be in midair and cannot shoot while doing it. Again, what I'm suggesting is to replace one of these "costs" with something else. As another example, since you used the example of moas that allow for long levitation, replace the "shooting in midair turns off invisibility" restriction with a "you are only invisible for a few seconds midair unless you touch the ground" restriction. Doesn't that ensure that it still has a cost? In no way did I ever say I wanted an augment that turns off the restriction without a cost.

It was answer for another user.

1 hour ago, ZXVI said:

And so you rebutted yourself again. Like you said, there are distinctions between invisiblities.

I did what? I just said that for some people there is distinction for "1 minute cooldown" and "jumping".

1 hour ago, ZXVI said:

With Wisp, you must always be in midair and not shooting to get the advantage. That means the only things you can do with invisible wisp is traverse maps without aggroing a single enemy, briefly exiting battle to recuperate, and using ranged melee.

Spoiler

 

- zaws + exodias

- abilities (+ Helminth)

- knowing when to shoot (e.g. when enemies are not facing you)

- enjoying fights between confused enemies

- slam attacks

and probably more

 

^^ spoiler because I think it's little oftopic

1 hour ago, ZXVI said:

Well, maybe you don't use normal weapons, but others (like me) really want to try out shooting weapons but if by doing so it removes one of the advantages of the frame your using, it sort of makes these weapons seem really undesirable doesnt it?

Not every frame needs to use & do the same thing. Mesa likes guns, Excal likes few different melees.

2 hours ago, ZXVI said:

What? Think about what I said for a moment. The xoris is a thrown melee, so it won't turn off invisibility.

So when one thing trivialize gameplay we need more things like this? Not my cup of tea.

 

I don't see it coming without making it harder to play or making some mods necessary. Maybe you would make it interesting. Who knows. Good luck.

[PsiWarp]

When Pablo gets around to Wisp's Passive augment, I suppose it won't hurt for the cloak to last a while longer.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

The only thing wisp need is her 4th to deal significant damage.