Allow Us To Recall To Railjack After Objective Completion

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

As of now we can't recall to railjack without everyone going to extraction during the segment of the mission where we do an exterminate, defense, etc, but you can then recall once everyone is there even if no one goes out through extraction airlock. Why have us gather there just to then recall? Just allow us to recall at any point or just allow us to recall once the objective is complete. The extra time it takes for everyone to gather is useless. If the reason we need to gather is due to the fact that not everyone has recall as an option, then just let anyone who has it recall and then the number of people who need to be at extraction to extract reduces. It's ridiculously tedious the way it is. I literally had a guy get stuck in a wall (unstuck wouldn't work), and so we had to wait a full minute to force him at extraction. He could have just used recall if this requirement wasn't a thing. Not to mention the waiting time it takes for people to gather pointlessly can be removed if we can just recall. 

 

We literally can't even use join warp while in this area of the mission to allow us to teleport to the extraction people. The Grineer missions had full compatability no matter where you were. Why is this any different? This is completely un-streamlined. 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

Recall once unlocked should work everywhere, anytime. 100% agreed.

Its like most things DEsigned: heres a great tool, but you can't use it half the time because "reasons".  (status proc - oh wait lets have status immune enemies,  Warframe abilities - oh wait lets have nullifiers, arbitration drones, demolysts that disable them, stalkers that disable them, Mods - oh lets have a game mode they cant be used.  Gear - lets have a game mode you cant use gear. or pets.  Warframes (just the title of the game) - lets have a game mode you can't use your warframe (Orphix).....

 

[taiiat]

yeah i don't think restricting it at this specific point in the Mission makes the game better in any way. 

now, IF there was something cool that happened, then i'd accept it. but that would probably be like a Sentient Mission and after you complete your Objective stuff really goes down and you have to try to race to the Exit before the Sentients really slap you.
THAT would be a worthwhile thing to disable recall for.

not just "yeah, you need to walk to the end of the map so you can leave. nothing is really going to happen, you just gotta walk there cus reasons".

[vanaukas]

I don't think because it's intended design, it's because how they have to load the "on foot" portions, the hint is the life of the railjak wich is grey until you are in the airlock to exit. They have mentioned in devstream about some AI constraints that they are unable to surpass (yet or maybe never). The solution would be deleting the "on foot" portions and making something like the points of interest in grineer missions, wich won't allow exterminate, defense, orphix or volatile missions due the low spawn rate of enemies. So its not just "reasons", are technical reasons.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

15 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

I don't think because it's intended design, it's because how they have to load the "on foot" portions, the hint is the life of the railjak wich is grey until you are in the airlock to exit. They have mentioned in devstream about some AI constraints that they are unable to surpass (yet or maybe never). The solution would be deleting the "on foot" portions and making something like the points of interest in grineer missions, wich won't allow exterminate, defense, orphix or volatile missions due the low spawn rate of enemies. So its not just "reasons", are technical reasons.

Then how come the Grineer missions (which had on foot portions) didn't have this issue. Grineer missions even had sabotage and extermination missions. You can teleport in any way no matter where you are. They literally degenerated in progress from the old content. 

[vanaukas]

Just now, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Then how come the Grineer missions (which had on foot portions) didn't have this issue. Grineer missions even had sabotage and extermination missions. You can teleport in any way no matter where you are. They literally degenerated in progress from the old content. 

because the enmy spawn is way lower than the on foot portions of corpus missions. Read again waht I wrote, this answer is literally there.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

3 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

because the enmy spawn is way lower than the on foot portions of corpus missions. Read again waht I wrote, this answer is literally there.

Then it sounds like it's time for them to buckle down and upgrade their engine. They've been putting it off for 5 years. 

[vanaukas]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Then it sounds like it's time for them to buckle down and upgrade their engine. They've been putting it off for 5 years. 

I don't believe is their engine per se, since most engines have similar limitations when you consider the online aspect of the game. Also the engine is always under upgrades, this is why just recently we have next gen graphics wich would be impossible under a "5 years" old engine without upgrades. Try to find a game with next gen graphics made on source engine or unreal 3, wich are engines that haven't been upgraded long ago.

Fun fact: The engine here is called Evolution Engine, based on the purpose of being under cosntant evolution.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

1 hour ago, vanaukas said:

I don't believe is their engine per se, since most engines have similar limitations when you consider the online aspect of the game. Also the engine is always under upgrades, this is why just recently we have next gen graphics wich would be impossible under a "5 years" old engine without upgrades. Try to find a game with next gen graphics made on source engine or unreal 3, wich are engines that haven't been upgraded long ago.

Fun fact: The engine here is called Evolution Engine, based on the purpose of being under cosntant evolution.

Perhaps I should be better with my words. They need to update their base coding bc THAT is outdated. Their foundation of the game is built on jello. It's why a change in railjack touches code that somehow affects your gear wheel or something else unrelated entirely. It's all jumbled. It'd require time, but the resulting game would be smoother and less buggy. 

[vanaukas]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Perhaps I should be better with my words. They need to update their base coding bc THAT is outdated. Their foundation of the game is built on jello. It's why a change in railjack touches code that somehow affects your gear wheel or something else unrelated entirely. It's all jumbled. It'd require time, but the resulting game would be smoother and less buggy. 

Ï think you should learn or investigate about coding before saying that mate, otherwise you should know why changing something apparently unrelated in a progarm affects other parts of it, much more considering the complexity of a 3d engine. And this not happens just to DE and warframe, even Microsoft has this kind of problems, where a simple update can cause BSOD due a mismanagment on memory allocation or a single line error (mentioning this because has happened twice this year on w10).

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

1 hour ago, vanaukas said:

Ï think you should learn or investigate about coding before saying that mate, otherwise you should know why changing something apparently unrelated in a progarm affects other parts of it, much more considering the complexity of a 3d engine. And this not happens just to DE and warframe, even Microsoft has this kind of problems, where a simple update can cause BSOD due a mismanagment on memory allocation or a single line error (mentioning this because has happened twice this year on w10).

So updating their code wouldn't help reduce the future issues of mass bugs? 

[vanaukas]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

So updating their code wouldn't help reduce the future issues of mass bugs? 

It's very obvious the fact that they update constantly the code (hence evolution in the name of the engine) and also you see it as "optimization" and "fixes" on every single update and hotfix.

So no, it's not just about "updating the code". I'm sure that their code is a mess too, but every single large program made by multiple people suffers that fate, if you are interested I can put here some funny videos about comments on code from valve and microsoft to see how bad things can be in apparently "almost bug free and functional" stuff.

The only constsant here is "the more large and complex the program, the more prone to bugs and "entaglement" between multiple sections of apparently unrrelated systems".

UE4 and Unity are one of the most robust and used engines nowadays and this problem is so severe that you can't upgrade the engine in some cases if you are doing a project, because it may not even open or you'll be forced to redo stuff from scratch.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

As was noted by many, its a limitation of their implementation of the on foot sections. 

My proposal is Railjack Recall Intrinsic should teleport you to extraction point, FormUp - if you are there - would pull other teammates to extraction to join you.

 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

On 2021-04-16 at 1:51 PM, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

As was noted by many, its a limitation of their implementation of the on foot sections. 

My proposal is Railjack Recall Intrinsic should teleport you to extraction point, FormUp - if you are there - would pull other teammates to extraction to join you.

 

This would work. Also maybe allow join warping while inside. Dunno why that doesn't work other than "reasons". Another option is just make the maps smaller. Running 600 extra meters is one of the big turn offs in base missions already. 

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

On 2021-04-15 at 11:31 PM, vanaukas said:

I don't think because it's intended design, it's because how they have to load the "on foot" portions, the hint is the life of the railjak wich is grey until you are in the airlock to exit. They have mentioned in devstream about some AI constraints that they are unable to surpass (yet or maybe never). The solution would be deleting the "on foot" portions and making something like the points of interest in grineer missions, wich won't allow exterminate, defense, orphix or volatile missions due the low spawn rate of enemies. So its not just "reasons", are technical reasons.

So are you saying that the world outside, the enemies, and the enemies in said crewships aren't loaded once the on foot sections begins? What exactly are you implying is the limitation here? 

[vanaukas]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

So are you saying that the world outside, the enemies, and the enemies in said crewships aren't loaded once the on foot sections begins? What exactly are you implying is the limitation here? 

I'm not sure if the world outside dissapears since there sre some bugs related to fall from the ships and the world it's still there, but empty and the railjack unavailable. 

I'm not "implying", devs said that the limitation is the capacity to handle enemy AI simultaneously in space, points of interests and "on foot" missions, this is why in space and points of interest we have low enemy spawn and density (PoI have less than 10 enemies active at the same time and becomes empty after a few mins), wich causes many problems including difficulty on gathering reactant in void storms if people splits to do multiple stuff at the same time.

It also means that on foot missions would have low enemy density too, so things like defense (I'm not happy with defense, but that's another thing), Volatile, Exterminate and Orphix would been impossible to do proplerly, do they opted for "splitting" the mission and allowing AI to exist just in one portion at the same time, space and PoI or "On foot". It works but the downside it's your railjack becomig unavailable (and teleporting to it unavailable too) until every player instanciated touches the trigger to make it available again, wich are the Airlocks. Think that airlocks are like the elevator on fortuna, the low loading time in airlocks must be caused by the space scene loaded but with zero AI.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

19 hours ago, vanaukas said:

I'm not sure if the world outside dissapears since there sre some bugs related to fall from the ships and the world it's still there, but empty and the railjack unavailable. 

I'm not "implying", devs said that the limitation is the capacity to handle enemy AI simultaneously in space, points of interests and "on foot" missions, this is why in space and points of interest we have low enemy spawn and density (PoI have less than 10 enemies active at the same time and becomes empty after a few mins), wich causes many problems including difficulty on gathering reactant in void storms if people splits to do multiple stuff at the same time.

It also means that on foot missions would have low enemy density too, so things like defense (I'm not happy with defense, but that's another thing), Volatile, Exterminate and Orphix would been impossible to do proplerly, do they opted for "splitting" the mission and allowing AI to exist just in one portion at the same time, space and PoI or "On foot". It works but the downside it's your railjack becomig unavailable (and teleporting to it unavailable too) until every player instanciated touches the trigger to make it available again, wich are the Airlocks. Think that airlocks are like the elevator on fortuna, the low loading time in airlocks must be caused by the space scene loaded but with zero AI.

So I know this isn't true. One of my allies bugged the timer so I got put into the on foot part. He was still outside in a crewship. Not only did the enemies in said crewship stay active and act normal, but the enemy ships were also still active and normal. He was then able to exit the ship and enter the on foot section. This proves that it's not an AI issue as everything outside was still working. 

[vanaukas]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

So I know this isn't true. One of my allies bugged the timer so I got put into the on foot part. He was still outside in a crewship. Not only did the enemies in said crewship stay active and act normal, but the enemy ships were also still active and normal. He was then able to exit the ship and enter the on foot section. This proves that it's not an AI issue as everything outside was still working. 

I've experienced something different, the whole space part empty of enemies and unavle to wnter to the on foot psrt, unable to enter the objective and unanble to enter the railjack, also unable to teleport to anyone but able to see what they were doing with the intrinsics perk.

In any case, I've also experienced bugs of low enemy density in Volarile missions, ao maybe is related to the bug you've described.

You can check this thread to have deeper insights made by other players: