Why Is This Subforum Not Page After Page Of Complaints About Nova

[[DE]Momaw]

What I am hearing is probably not what people think they are saying...

 

* People feel like the event rewards are not worth the time investment to earn them without resorting to "efficiency". Missions are not dynamic enough?

 

* Any frame considered to be an "efficient" alternative becuase it can kill quickly and without effort is probably just as in need of balance adjustments. Mag keeps coming up a lot under this category.

 

* Frames with non-LOS AOE abilities in general are popular because they trivialize the game in most contexts and probably need to be looked into as a fundamental game mechanic e.g. make them require LOS to use these abilities or look at cooldowns and energy costs to prevent spamming.

 

* Frames with non-LOS AOE abilities don't scale properly between high and low level missions, and need to be adjusted to be less powerful in low level but more powerful in high level.

[suraklin]

What I am hearing is probably not what people think they are saying...

 

* People feel like the event rewards are not worth the time investment to earn them without resorting to "efficiency". Missions are not dynamic enough?

 

Resorting to efficiency still required 8 or 9 hours of gameplay to complete a 1 week event; is that not enough time spent for a person with a family and career?  I did many of them solo because other people honestly only slowed me down.

Many time-limited events in online games require 3-5 hours for anyone to complete, or maybe 10 hours for a "full" completion.  Look at MMORPG holiday events for an example.  If it took me "efficiency" to clear the event in the timeframe of 9 hours -- with the experience and resources I have in Warframe -- then perhaps the event was too demanding.

[SquirmyBurrito]

What I am hearing is probably not what people think they are saying...

 

* People feel like the event rewards are not worth the time investment to earn them without resorting to "efficiency". Missions are not dynamic enough?

 

* Any frame considered to be an "efficient" alternative becuase it can kill quickly and without effort is probably just as in need of balance adjustments. Mag keeps coming up a lot under this category.

 

* Frames with non-LOS AOE abilities in general are popular because they trivialize the game in most contexts and probably need to be looked into as a fundamental game mechanic e.g. make them require LOS to use these abilities or look at cooldowns and energy costs to prevent spamming.

 

* Frames with non-LOS AOE abilities don't scale properly between high and low level missions, and need to be adjusted to be less powerful in low level but more powerful in high level.

 

All I'm seeing is:

-Waah these people don't play the way I do.

-Waah these people prefer to work smarter not harder.

-Waah frames should be balanced around low level (read: easier) content.

-Waah everyone playing spammable frames should be punished because of those who spam.

 

Let's ignore the work people put into their frames so they can be used for high level content. Let's just nerf everything so it's balanced for low level content. Because frames make everything too easy, let's ignore the fact that high damage guns do more damage than frame ults. Let's punish caster frames built around damage.

[alchemistjkt]

One event run takes about 5 minutes (including loadtimes etc) with pressing 1 like a boss.  x100 = almost 8 and a half hours.

thats cute...

just gotta try and show off that epeen huh?

 

After 600 hours of gameplay, I wasn't looking to spend 20+ hours doing cheesy exterminate missions.

you only have 300 (or so) of actual game time.

please dont use steam time when saying things like that.

 

and were set up with the same Mag build because efficiency in clearing 100 missions was paramount to people that don't have unlimited time to play in a one-week timespan.

there are other builds that are just as efficient.

just because you use a frame as a 1 trick pony does not mean that your efficient.

 

that said, mag is indeed quite efficient.

but still... my trin running around with an ignis does just as well as any mag or nova.

[xGryphus]

Have you people even been PLAYING the Gradivus event? I'll tell you how it goes:

If there is no Nova on your team, everybody gets to shoot something and you steamroll the mission.

If there is a Nova on your "team", there is no mission. You just run to the exit point behind a rolling explosion.

Has there already been a mandate from heaven that Nova is OP as hell and going to stay that way, ala Soma? Did I miss that? Because I can think of no other reason for there to not be an ocean of ongoing complaints about how utterly broken this class (well, really, molecular prime) is.

Did you ever played Nova? First of all she is designed for high level content where her MP is used for utility becouse it barely scratches enemies. Secondly her health and shields are medicore at best and she have no escape skill - in hands of reckless player she dies easily. Last but not least doing tons of damage is her role - complaining about that is like complaining that DPS is higher in damage table then Tank in WoW.

This topic should be named: Why Is This Subforum Not Page After Page Of Complaints About Low Kill Count Hurts My Ego

Edited October 30, 2013 by xGryphus

[Amistyrja]

My Mag Prime makes Novas rage...

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Have you people even been PLAYING the Gradivus event? I'll tell you how it goes:

If there is no Nova on your team, everybody gets to shoot something and you steamroll the mission.

If there is a Nova on your "team", there is no mission. You just run to the exit point behind a rolling explosion.

Has there already been a mandate from heaven that Nova is OP as hell and going to stay that way, ala Soma? Did I miss that? Because I can think of no other reason for there to not be an ocean of ongoing complaints about how utterly broken this class (well, really, molecular prime) is.

If there is a Rhino/Saryn/Volt (yes really)/Mag/Ember on your team, there is no mission. You just run to the exit point behind a rolling stomp/miasma/overload/crush or pull/worldonfire.

In short, the problem is not Nova, it's the entire power system allowing spammable ults. This has been repeatedly pointed out and, frankly, it's pretty much sunk in by this point.

[suraklin]

thats cute...

just gotta try and show off that epeen huh?

you only have 300 (or so) of actual game time.

please dont use steam time when saying things like that.

there are other builds that are just as efficient.

just because you use a frame as a 1 trick pony does not mean that your efficient.

that said, mag is indeed quite efficient.

but still... my trin running around with an ignis does just as well as any mag or nova.

How am I showing off an epeen?  I never came here to brag but to provide counter-examples to the complaint that Nova was too strong for the event.  I said I completed the event in 9 hours. If this offends you or you see it as some kind of competition, that is neurosis found completely within your own mind.

 

There are plenty of other builds that are just as efficient.  Did I say there weren't?  Why would you even bring that point up?  Did my one example of how I could use a Mag just as well as a Nova exclude all other builds from being spoken of?

 

A 1 trick pony that completes entire missions in minimal time is being efficient, by definiton. "Achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense."  Get a dictionary if you want to fight over the meaning of words.  

 

There is no way an Ignis and a Trinity can clear anything anywhere near as fast as a Mag spamming Pull.  Go ahead and continue being a pompous &#! to me, simply because I participated in a conversation and provided counter-examples that are so offensive to you that I must be guilty of stroking my own ego.

 

Finally, I guess I made an error when i asserted my time played.  According to Steam I've devoted that number of hours to Warframe.  Warframe cuts that time down greatly because it only counts when you're walking around actually in a mission.

[SquirmyBurrito]

there are other builds that are just as efficient.

just because you use a frame as a 1 trick pony does not mean that your efficient.

 

that said, mag is indeed quite efficient.

but still... my trin running around with an ignis does just as well as any mag or nova.

 

To be honest, it sounds more like you're the one trying to show off your 'epeen'. Suraklin never said anything about other builds not working, or not being as efficient. You seem to have just taken offense to Suraklin's posts for no reason other than some imaginary dismissive remark. Also, how is your Trinity+Ignis set up supposed to work just as well as a 65 meter insta-kill?

Edited October 30, 2013 by SquirmyBurrito

[Ohmlink]

I think the reason is that people would rather help frames that are bad, rather than make the "good" ones bad as well.

[Buzkyl]

The missions are monotonous, they're a glorified exterminate (which is sad, i'm sorry DE, but i was let down. Excellent maps, bad gameplay) and must be done atleast 100 times

 

And you have a frame which speeds up the process for the rest of the team, and now you complain?

 

 

idontwanttolivehereanymore.jpeg

 

Why just Nova though? Rhino achieves the same result while having an invulnerable Iron skin for damage, his speed surpasses Nova with a Vangaurd Helmet and his Ult OHKO just like nova. But nova's the bad gu--girl.

[GottFaust]

Nova is only very strong in lower-rank missions. People have mostly realized this by now, thus the complaints have stopped.

Pro-Tip: The invasion missions were all low level.

[[DE]Momaw]

Nova is only very strong in lower-rank missions. People have mostly realized this by now, thus the complaints have stopped.

Pro-Tip: The invasion missions were all low level.

 

Are you saying that only players in high level content deserve to have a balanced gameplay experience where everybody can be useful?

[SquirmyBurrito]

Are you saying that only players in high level content deserve to have a balanced gameplay experience where everybody can be useful?

 

If the only other option is to nerf high-level content... I'd say yes. You shouldn't nerf people with over-leveled gear.

[blahdenoma]

Off-topic, but against Corpus, I like shield polarize better because I can just bomb through to the middle of a pack and have my shields regenned while I'm blowing everything up.  Works great with 1200+ shields on Mag.  You end up finishing all the missions with 75% damage dealt and 90% damage taken, heh.  It's nice because you don't really have to think about it...just run, slide, flip jump and zoren-copter over the front line, drop SP in midair, carry on with the plan of the day.

[suraklin]

Are you saying that only players in high level content deserve to have a balanced gameplay experience where everybody can be useful?

Are you saying that every frame should be equally powerful in all levels of content?  What does power and balance even mean to you?  In my opinion, Nova, Rhino, and Nyx are the three most "powerful" frames in the game due to damage, suvivability, and control, respectively.  Should a healing Trinity or a stealthing Loki should not exist then, as they aren't as offensively balanced with the other frames? Should frames based on offensive output should be nerfed due to the fact there are frames based on utility?

[GottFaust]

Are you saying that only players in high level content deserve to have a balanced gameplay experience where everybody can be useful?

Unfortunately: not every frame is useful in high level missions. The current objective of their balance team (Read: Scott) is to fix this issue.

Regardless, as stated multiple times by DE: the idea is to balance the game around high-end play.

You can't balance everything around low, mid, and high-end play. It's literally not possible. Everyone eventually ends up at the "end game" assuming they don't quit after a few days. Balancing around this stage of play is the only logical choice as it will affect the most players for longest period of time. Attempting to balance your game around a transient, early state is a waste of time, a waste of effort, and futile to begin with.

It's the same with every successful game based around longevity. Play this, or any longevity-targeted, game for a few hundred hours and you'll see.

[[DE]Momaw]

Regardless, as stated multiple times by DE: the idea is to balance the game around high-end play.

 

Except if that were the case wouldn't it be logical and necessary that all events be high level?  What is the sense of making your game's ongoing attraction, the stuff that actually changes, be all derped up balance-wise so that veteran players don't even notice as they stroll through?

 

For that matter why would you develop ANYTHING that isn't "high level" if that's where all your quality is going.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Momaw

[GottFaust]

Except if that were the case wouldn't it be logical and necessary that all events be high level?  What is the sense of making your game's ongoing attraction, the stuff that actually changes, be all derped up balance-wise so that veteran players don't even notice as they stroll through?

They want events to be accessable to all players regardless of skill or rank. Events are also one-off so balancing them is a non-issue in the long run.

How mad would you be, as a newer player, if you could not participate in a once-only event because everything was too high ranked for you? On the inverse: this event was still fun for me even though I could simply stroll through it with my high-end, multi-polarized, clan-tech gear.

Also: virtually every prior event had missions in varying locations with varying difficulty levels to them.

Regardless: events are a special case given their limited window of duration and thus do not have any bearing on the overall balance of the game.

[suraklin]

Except if that were the case wouldn't it be logical and necessary that all events be high level?  What is the sense of making your game's ongoing attraction, the stuff that actually changes, be all derped up balance-wise so that veteran players don't even notice as they stroll through?

 

For that matter why would you develop ANYTHING that isn't "high level" if that's where all your quality is going.

Events and end-game have nothing to do with each other.   Sure an event might be easier to a veteran, because of the investment already put into the game -- but isn't that the idea / reward for time spent?   BALANCE is designed around end-game.   This is the way it is with any game, whether it be balancing characters in a fighting game, or balancing classes in an MMORPG.

 

You can't be pissed off that a damage-dealing nuke class that AOE's everything down is "stronger" or "unbalanced" against.. say.. a class that crowd controls everything while not being directly damaging.  Get to a high enough level and Nyx's Chaos becomes much stronger than Nova's MP, and suddenly Nyx is the one that's unbalanced due to Chaos working equally well on everything from level 1 to 1000 (hypothetically speaking).

[AudioRejectz]

The reason is people got sick of complaining and nothing being done.

Nova completely broke the game and it's the reason I only play solo now.

Where is the fun in not being able to kill anything as some idiot is spamming nova's ult and by the time you shoot one enemy you blow up half the map

Edited October 30, 2013 by AudioRejectz

[BiancaRoughfin]

Ok, im my opinion this topic is just plain stupid. People who play the Event missions for ranking up or trying to score kills are equaly stupid for the simple fact doing 100 missions for the faction of your choise takes allot of time and is very boring after about 20 atempts.
Most players (as my self) just wanted to get it over with and went with their best Frame to end the mission quickly.

I played with my Nova as i do most of the time and no one complained with me the fact that i took the lead and killed everyting first or killed the most becouse those who played with me wanted the same and they garenteed their event rewards.
I only used my Molecular prime about twice in the whole event. Most of the time i was letting my Sentinel pick those who got too close and kept killing the rest from away with my Lanka.

[suraklin]

Nyx completely breaks the game because nothing is ever a threat to me.   Vauban breaks infested defenses because nothing is ever a threat to me.  Frost breaks Orokin defenses because nothing is ever a threat to me. Mag breaks missions because her pull can kill everything through walls and nothing is ever a threat to me.  Rhino breaks missions because nothing can ever kill me.  Nova breaks missions because she can kill everything under level 85.  Trinity breaks boss fights because Trinity.

 

Strength is relative and offensive strength does not compare well to defensive or utlitarian strength.

[Ohmlink]

Yes Nova destroy's the game before you break into higher levels, so do most warframes. The only issue I see is that most warframes lose out past level 50. This would be ok if that was end game since it's supposed to be hard. But right now only a few warframes are able to use their powers to some effect damage wise on the highest level content. The thing is most abilities need to be looked at, even among the best of frames they usually have 1 or 2 bad skills.

 

For the moment the game has more pressing balance issues dealing with abilities in general rather than just nova. I would rather see warframes brought up to par abilities wise rather than nerf 1 skill that is one of the few that performs at all levels.

[SquirmyBurrito]

OP, should DE also nerf weapons like the Paris because they can be modded to do tons of damage?