Why All The De Bashing In Threads?

[Cpl_Facehugger]

But they are failing terribly at implementing anything meaningful; Storyline and Lore,

The codex should help alleviate that at least in part, and they've begun working lore into events ala Gravidus. Now granted Gravidus' lore didn't work out perfectly (to put it mildly), but I expect them to learn from the mistakes they made there.

 

Edit: Also, the trailers have gotten steadily more chock-full of lore.

New mission variants

Er, they've been working on this too. Redoing sabotage, making survival, Gravidus/invasion with extermination missions that feature allies...

 

mod and level up systems could be reworked to allow weapon specializations or power combinations, etcetera.

Armor 2.0 looks like it's going to encourage weapon specializations because a wider range of enemies are gaining vulnerabilities and/or strengths vs certain damage types.

Eg poison damage is now utterly crap against corpus moas.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Anarties]

I mean, I don't see why you even had to remind that guy about Blatant's post, When he posted /before/ Blatant posted his. Thus, I don't even see why you brought it up. When, He would have seen Blatant's post if he bothered to check the thread again. Just seems like you wanted to get the last word in, So to speak. If anything you were re-inciting that topic to come back up.

 

 

Proofbro? They have already shown new Melee systems on the way, New Armor system is on the way, New Lore aspects are being introduced, (Codex, And more after that such as Vor's prize and such they've talked about.. ) Drop tables with said Codex, All things the community has asked for. Only thing I see here is the Community being impatient and wanting things now, This very moment, Or bust.

I had a counter-argument but apparently it was removed because it contained too much of the truth.

 

I'm giving it a rest.

 

I know things wont get better.

[Katakuna]

I had a counter-argument but apparently it was removed because it contained too much of the truth.

 

I'm giving it a rest.

 

I know things wont get better.

 

If it was removed, it was probably less truth and more negative bias that didn't actually say anything that hasn't already been addressed.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

If it was removed, it was probably less truth and more negative bias that didn't actually say anything that hasn't already been addressed.

This. I've posted plenty of criticism of DE's development and none of it has been silenced.

[Anarties]

If it was removed, it was probably less truth and more negative bias that didn't actually say anything that hasn't already been addressed.

I posted pretty fair criticism of the game.

 

Nothing about it was aimless and it all had grounds as a counter-argument.

 

I just happened to use the word "turd" to correlate to gameplay and "gold" to correlate to these so called "updates" they make to the game.

 

My criticism was fair...maybe the words I used were not.

 

Then again they were not censored.

 

Either way I'd love for them to tell me why they deleted it so I know what to do so it wont get deleted again.

 

That's the way one with common sense would go about it.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Anarties

[alchemistjkt]

I had a counter-argument but apparently it was removed because it contained too much of the truth.

 

I'm giving it a rest.

 

I know things wont get better.

i saw your "truth".

saying turd over and over is not truth, its childish drivel.

[Katakuna]

I posted pretty fair criticism of the game.

 

Nothing about it was aimless and it all had grounds as a counter-argument.

 

Excuse me if I'm reluctant to believe the writer of such bias as what was removed.

[Anarties]

i saw your "truth".

saying turd over and over is not truth, its childish drivel.

Turd was the word being used to explain how no amount of system revamps will change the fact that the gameplay has no depth.

 

The game is not immersive in the slightest.

 

Was turd a choice word? I suppose.

 

But when your covering a turd in gold what else can it be called.

 

You know that once you're done farming weapons and mods...this game at it's core is terrible.

 

It's not the gameplay that keeps you playing. 

 

It's the content that you grind for, hence why RnG is so low and against us.

 

It's the only thing DE can do to get people to play their game.

 

Why else does DE give new content out each week? They know it wont last otherwise.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Anarties

[Anarties]

Excuse me if I'm reluctant to believe the writer of such bias as what was removed.

Go ahead.

 

I've already made a thread about how I feel about this game and nearly everyone agreed.

 

Your doubt cannot change the truth.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Anarties

[Letter13]

If you want to criticize people, be objective about it. Objective criticism is the best sort of criticism... it also is the sort of criticism that gets results.

 

So what is objective criticism? The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective_approach#Criticism'>Wikipedia Article on it sums it up nicely.

 

Basically if your 'criticism' has an exceptional amount of dramatic flair or is just a means for you to bash the developers, it's not worth reading (and it'll most likely be removed).

 

It really isn't hard to make objective criticism either... allow me to demonstrate:

 

"I'm dissatisfied with the current way that games are hosted--there's way too many laggy hosts and no sort of enforcement/prevention of laggy games. DE, can you please implement a system which tests a user's latency (ping) as well as their upload bandwidth to determine whether they can adequately host a game? And if their scores fall below a certain threshold, could you possibly prevent them from hosting (or prevent users from connecting to them) to prevent laggy matches?"

 

An example of dramatic developer bashing (a.k.a. non-objective criticism):

 

"DE you suck get your crap together. Sick and tired of all these laggy hosts because of your &!$$ poor coding. FIX IT NOW. Worst game ever until it gets fixed."

 

Basically if you want to be objective, avoid using profane language, stereotypes, analogies meant to disgust, etc. Saying things like "The game is a turd. Now they're putting gold trim on the turd" isn't acceptable and will be removed... whereas something like "The state of the game isn't good. They're adding more features and gold trim, but they're not fixing the underlying issues" won't.

 

If it cannot be said without profanity, dramatic flair or immature language, then don't bother saying it because it isn't objective.

[Anarties]

If you want to criticize people, be objective about it. Objective criticism is the best sort of criticism... it also is the sort of criticism that gets results.

 

So what is objective criticism? The Wikipedia Article on it sums it up nicely.

 

Basically if your 'criticism' has an exceptional amount of dramatic flair or is just a means for you to bash the developers, it's not worth reading (and it'll most likely be removed).

 

It really isn't hard to make objective criticism either... allow me to demonstrate:

 

 

 

 

An example of dramatic developer bashing (a.k.a. non-objective criticism):

I'm pretty sure I posted fair points.

 

Without my use of the word "turd" it would have simply stayed.

 

I've already made a thread sharing the same feelings and nearly everyone agreed.

 

Face it, my use of words it why it was deleted, not my criticism itself.

 

What else do I need to state? I've stated the issue and stated it in my own way and put it in all caps so the issue was known.

 

Pff...spare me your lecture.

 

You try to be the knight, yet you have no armor to show that you are.

 

Moderator is one thing, but actually trying to tell me that I was not being objective because I said turd?

 

Don't make me laugh.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Anarties

[alchemistjkt]

Turd was the word being used to explain how no amount of system revamps will change the fact that the gameplay has no depth.

 

The game is not immersive in the slightest.

 

Was turd a choice word? I suppose.

 

But when your covering a turd in gold what else can it be called.

ok, lets put it another way...

your truth was false.

the end.

 

but really though, why are you even here?

you seem to hate everything about this game... so go the hell away.

spare us your shenanigans and give the mods a break from dealing with your nonsense.

 

on topic:

the reason why the community has a generally venomous attitude towards DE is because they have caused it.

DE has done some... unsavory things in the not so distant past, and the community called them out for it.

sadly, DE seems to repeat the same mistakes time and time again, as such, the community feels slighted and the venom begins to form yet again.

i do think that some people take it too far, and i would also like to point out that DE has (seemingly) been doing better.

the past few livestreams and talks of content have given me hope once again for the future of warframe.

[PettiTheYeti]

The codex should help alleviate that at least in part, and they've begun working lore into events ala Gravidus. Now granted Gravidus' lore didn't work out perfectly (to put it mildly), but I expect them to learn from the mistakes they made there.

 

Edit: Also, the trailers have gotten steadily more chock-full of lore.

Er, they've been working on this too. Redoing sabotage, making survival, Gravidus/invasion with extermination missions that feature allies...

 

Armor 2.0 looks like it's going to encourage weapon specializations because a wider range of enemies are gaining vulnerabilities and/or strengths vs certain damage types.

Eg poison damage is now utterly crap against corpus moas.

 

Codex and trailers are great, but I'm talking about in-between mission cutscenes or battle logs or mission briefings; Why are we going to this moon on Phobos to sabotage this compound; What are they doing here that needs to be stopped? How does exterminating this ship of Grineer forces help the overall goal of the Lotus/Tenno? There are so many things that could be done as far as story and lore that anyone can sit for hours and write stuff up. It needs to be done.

 

 

 

Yes, they are bringing out or re-working some basic missions types. It's still "Go here, Do this, Extract." For Spy missions, for example; Why just hack a console and pick up a case? Let's turn those basic missions into multi-faceted missions where you have to capture a couple of high ranked members of the ship, hack into a data console and navigate a mini-OS to find a specific file to copy into the data capsules we carry around, then exterminate everyone on the way out of the ship, or maybe even commandeer the ship by hacking a set of coordinates into the mainframe to get the ship captured by someone else?

 

I know, we already have the extra assignments from the Lotus in some missions. Make it more than a secondary objective by giving it some story to make it seem more important, and do it for more missions. It will add more depth to the game, and eventually with enough mission types and a solid RNG to determine which objectives come up; you could end up with a 45 minute long mission two times in a row, and have a completely different mission each time.

 

 

 

I think you misunderstood the thought of weapon specializations. There was a thread a while back about how it would be more interesting to have a traditional level up system where you can pick what kind of weapons you were better with than others, powers leveling similar to Diablo or Far Cry 3, and eventually being linked to a combination power. Stuff like that. Not just the same type of mod system for the entire game. Have an actual skills and stats leveling menu with weapon and frame mods being their own unique thing. Stuff like that.

[Blatantfool]

Anarties, take a cold shower or something. You're getting far too worked up.

[Anarties]

Anarties, take a cold shower or something. You're getting far too worked up.

You're right.

 

It's been a long day.

 

I need to go cool off.

[Cwierz]

Thing is they only listen to the Design Council.

 

The rest of us are wasting our breath.

I dunno, but it feels like sometimes I will suggest something and it comes in the next hotfix or update, so I would like to think I might have added new features (but probably not). I suggested that the -recoil be replaced with +bullet deviation and as far as I know was the only/first person to do that and it was implemented. I also suggested that shield polarize be AOE, and it was eventually implemented. I suggested that radial blast be replaced with a team buff and that came through, I also suggested that pull ragdoll instead of knockdown which was implemented as well. I wonder if DE is keeping tabs on my suggestions :O

[Anarties]

I dunno, but it feels like sometimes I will suggest something and it comes in the next hotfix or update, so I would like to think I might have added new features (but probably not). I suggested that the -recoil be replaced with +bullet deviation and as far as I know was the only/first person to do that and it was implemented. I also suggested that shield polarize be AOE, and it was eventually implemented. I suggested that radial blast be replaced with a team buff and that came through, I also suggested that pull ragdoll instead of knockdown which was implemented as well. I wonder if DE is keeping tabs on my suggestions :O

I was wrong then.

 

I accept the fact that I'm delusional and have no idea what I was thinking when I said that.

 

It just stinks seeing a game with such great potential go down this route.

 

I suppose I got a bit frustrated at that thought.

 

I'm just going to delete that post so people don't have to see my nonsense.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Codex and trailers are great, but I'm talking about in-between mission cutscenes or battle logs or mission briefings; Why are we going to this moon on Phobos to sabotage this compound; What are they doing here that needs to be stopped? How does exterminating this ship of Grineer forces help the overall goal of the Lotus/Tenno? There are so many things that could be done as far as story and lore that anyone can sit for hours and write stuff up. It needs to be done.

Ah. Giving us greater context. Yeah, definitely.

 

Yes, they are bringing out or re-working some basic missions types. It's still "Go here, Do this, Extract." For Spy missions, for example; Why just hack a console and pick up a case? Let's turn those basic missions into multi-faceted missions where you have to capture a couple of high ranked members of the ship, hack into a data console and navigate a mini-OS to find a specific file to copy into the data capsules we carry around, then exterminate everyone on the way out of the ship, or maybe even commandeer the ship by hacking a set of coordinates into the mainframe to get the ship captured by someone else?

 

I know, we already have the extra assignments from the Lotus in some missions. Make it more than a secondary objective by giving it some story to make it seem more important, and do it for more missions. It will add more depth to the game, and eventually with enough mission types and a solid RNG to determine which objectives come up; you could end up with a 45 minute long mission two times in a row, and have a completely different mission each time.

Honestly, that sounds like it'd be a pain in the butt. I already dislike it when I get Lotus saying "well things just got interesting" because I go in expecting a nice simple ten minute romp and it doubles. A huge multi-part mission like that as standard would suck.

Now, special missions like that would be fine, but not every mission. I don't want to have to spend hours and hours chained to one mission.

 

I think you misunderstood the thought of weapon specializations. There was a thread a while back about how it would be more interesting to have a traditional level up system where you can pick what kind of weapons you were better with than others, powers leveling similar to Diablo or Far Cry 3, and eventually being linked to a combination power. Stuff like that. Not just the same type of mod system for the entire game. Have an actual skills and stats leveling menu with weapon and frame mods being their own unique thing. Stuff like that.

Ah. I see what you mean. But honestly, there is such a thing as too much complexity.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Tevye]

I have no words. I tried to post an image to express my feelings towards this statement, but the post got baleeted.

Wait, no. I have words.

...Crap, can't use those words here. Well, let's try these.

You're wrong. This game is grind times farm to the factor of 10. The newest content is even MORE grindy in what I can only assume is an attempt to make people play the new content longer before leaving in disinterest again (it didn't work by the way). Even at the most basic level, it's all grind. If you want great weapons? Grind that affinity. If you want to be able to build those weapons? Grind the materials. If you want more than your starter frame? Grind out those bosses. Then grind another boss to get neural sensors and neurodes. You wanna build stuff in the clan dojo? Better collectively farm materials as a clan.

It's ridiculous and I do not understand why people think the grind in this game is any kinder than games like Vindictus or PSO2.

Mm, ok, I'll jump off topic for a sec. Yes there is grind. But I do not feel it is particularly excessive or onerous. The comparison you quoted me on was in reference to East Asian online games. Most of those that I have played put running epics in WoW to shame. In rising force, to give you one example, I played a driver, who had to buy his mecha with in game currency, and if it were destroyed, replace it with a new one. The farm time to afford one took me anywhere from one to two days of pve playtime. In pvp, that mecha might survive for 20 secs before being scrap. So, comparably, the grind in warframe is not much. If you want to compare warframe to other four player squad games, have you ever tried monster hunter? I once killed 53 monsters of one type, back to back, at 20-25 mins a fight, to get 2 drops. That is excessive, and onerous. But also, my feelings on the grind level are just that, mine.

[Tevye]

If you want to criticize people, be objective about it. Objective criticism is the best sort of criticism... it also is the sort of criticism that gets results.

So what is objective criticism? The Wikipedia Article on it sums it up nicely.

Basically if your 'criticism' has an exceptional amount of dramatic flair or is just a means for you to bash the developers, it's not worth reading (and it'll most likely be removed).

It really isn't hard to make objective criticism either... allow me to demonstrate:

This is the point I wanted to get to.

An example of dramatic developer bashing (a.k.a. non-objective criticism):

Basically if you want to be objective, avoid using profane language, stereotypes, analogies meant to disgust, etc. Saying things like "The game is a turd. Now they're putting gold trim on the turd" isn't acceptable and will be removed... whereas something like "The state of the game isn't good. They're adding more features and gold trim, but they're not fixing the underlying issues" won't.

If it cannot be said without profanity, dramatic flair or immature language, then don't bother saying it because it isn't objective.

This is what I've been getting at.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Remitevji

[PettiTheYeti]

Honestly, that sounds like it'd be a pain in the butt. I already dislike it when I get Lotus saying "well things just got interesting" because I go in expecting a nice simple ten minute romp and it doubles. A huge multi-part mission like that as standard would suck.

Now, special missions like that would be fine, but not every mission. I don't want to have to spend hours and hours chained to one mission.

 

Ah. I see what you mean. But honestly, there is such a thing as too much complexity.

 

Well, the idea behind the big, multi-part missions is that once the system is fleshed out, and if implemented on all the missions, eventually you get used to spending 20 or 30 minutes in a mission, and the in-mission story that is ideally included with such a mission pulls you in and gives you a reason for being there.

 

I love a 5 minute bum rush to the exit as much as the next guy, but that's mostly because it's so painful playing the same missions over and over again, with just a new map layout to work with. This type of deal would make playing a lot more interesting because you don't know what's going to happen next.

 

 

 

I will agree that there is "too complex" (EVE Online), but in it's current state, Warframe is borderline "kindergarten simple" (Super Mario) compared to other games. I think it could stand to be a little more involved.

[Aimop95]

I just want more lore....:(

 

Also, I want my melee blocking to actually be effective in PvE...not just PvP.

[Blatantfool]

 Alright. So the thread has run its course. Pretty much said what needed to be said. I'm laying it to rest.

 

 RIP.