Acrid Rework: 'The Forgotten Venom'

[bnuy]

Design Goals:

There are many questions to consider when theory-crafting balance changes, with the first being the most important; what issues are these changes meant to address? The main purpose of these changes is to give Acrid a function that will remain unique even amongst hundreds of other weapons. As it stands, Acrid is both weak and lacks any truly unique function, and without either of those it has naturally fallen out of use. Weapons without a unique function that players can gravitate to, or game breaking power, end up being forgotten by the community and rarely ever finding use.

Other Helpful Questions:

1. What makes the weapon unique?
   • Acrid has a forced toxin proc which is the only remotely unique part about the weapon, though it is a rather weak identity.
2. Is the weapon actually used by players?
   • Acrid has fallen heavily out of favour due to it lacking power and other weapons now filling it's toxin niche.
3. How powerful should this weapon be?
   • This weapon requires Mastery Rank 7 so it should be neither too weak nor too strong.

These questions help me refine the design direction I want to take with the rework. I am able to figure out if the weapon needs to have some new unique functions added to enhance how engaging it feels, or if it simply needs some stat changes and quality of life tweaks to fall in line with where it deserves to be.

Acrid

Spoiler

• Description:
  • Acrid fires acid-infused needles that slowly melt their victims from the inside.
     
• Functions & Stats:
  • Primary Fire:
    • MB1: Fire fully automatic needle projectiles that inflict toxin.
      • every hit applies a toxin status effect
         
  • Alternate Fire:
    • MB3: Detonate lingering toxins for a burst of toxin damage.
      • deals 100.00% of the remaining damage from all lingering toxin status effects it has applied
      • no ammo cost
         
  • Stats:
    • Mastery Rank: 7
    • Magazine: 15
    • Reload Speed: 1.20s
       
    • Primary Fire: (automatic)
      • Ammo Cost: 1
      • Accuracy: 100
      • Fire Rate: 6.00
      • Damage: 43 Toxin
      • Critical Chance: 3.00%
      • Critical Damage: 1.30x
      • Status Chance: 28.00%
         
    • Alternate Fire: (semi-automatic)
      • Ammo Cost: 0
      • Fire Rate: 1.00                  (not moddable)
      • Damage: 100.00% of remaining Toxin status effects dealt as Toxin Damage
      • Critical Chance: 0.00%     (not moddable)
      • Critical Damage: 1.00x    (not moddable)
      • Status Chance: 0.00%      (not moddable)

Along with the rework to base Acrid, I went ahead and made a variant for it as well to keep with the times. This would be a Wraith variant, meaning it brings Acrid's power to a more modern level, allowing it to be somewhere among the top tiers of weapons. It has always made sense from a game design perspective that certain variant types should be tuned for specific stats, so in this rework I reinforce this idea of standardization. Within this framework of standardized variants, Wraiths in my mind are crit-heavy and sacrifice status to do so, meaning this weapon will have drastically different stats than the base Acrid.

Acrid Wraith

Spoiler

• Description:
  • A heavily empowered version of it's predecessor, featuring a unique styling.
     
• Functions & Stats:
  • Primary Fire:
    • MB1: Fully automatic needle projectiles that inflict toxin.
      • every hit applies a toxin status effect
         
  • Alternate Fire:
    • MB3: Detonate lingering toxins to trigger deadly gas clouds around their victims.
      • deals 100.00% of the remaining damage from all lingering toxin status effects it has applied
      • no ammo cost
         
  • Stats:
    • Mastery Rank: 13
    • Magazine: 20
    • Reload Speed: 1.35s
       
    • Primary Fire: (automatic)
      • Ammo Cost: 1
      • Accuracy: 100
      • Fire Rate: 7.00
      • Damage: 58 Toxin
      • Critical Chance: 27.00%
      • Critical Damage: 2.30x
      • Status Chance: 6.00%
         
    • Alternate Fire: (semi-automatic)
      • Ammo Cost: 0
      • Fire Rate: 1.00                   (not moddable)
      • Damage: 100.00% of remaining Toxin status effects dealt as Gas Damage
      • Critical Chance: 0.00%     (not moddable)
      • Critical Damage: 1.00x    (not moddable)
      • Status Chance: 100.00%  (not moddable)

Conclusion:
These changes should help to boost Acrid into seeing more active use thanks to it's new mechanic and automatic firing mode, as well as the more powerful variant!
Feel free to leave any feedback below.

Edited September 21, 2023 by bnuy
finalized

[Gremlin]

Out of any weapon that needs a rework, I would really want one for this. Auto fire, and adding a 'kill switch' on the gun would really be great, and would synergize so well with it's syndicate augment! Turn this meme into a dream please. 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Acrid was made completely obsolete by Hystrix/Prime

its gimmick -forced toxin proc

is also covered by hystrix, and moreso because hystrix can force the other 3 elements as well, and do crits

 

 

...

I would suggest, that Acrid be changed from forced Toxin, into forced Viral.

that would allow for more versatility, on par with hystrix

for example while currently its useful vs Corpus via Viral + [forced]Toxin

now you can do Grineer: corrosive + [forced]viral, or Corpus still: toxin + [forced]viral

[bnuy]

1 minute ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Acrid was made completely obsolete by Hystrix/Prime

its gimmick -forced toxin proc

is also covered by hystrix, and moreso because hystrix can force the other 3 elements as well, and do crits

...

I would suggest, that Acrid be changed from forced Toxin, into forced Viral.

that would allow for more versatility, on par with hystrix

for example while currently its useful vs Corpus via Viral + [forced]Toxin

now you can do Grineer: corrosive + [forced]viral, or Corpus still: toxin + [forced]viral

You're conflating two separate issues.

Acrid is a low mastery, early game weapon.
It should not be on par with Hystrix Prime.

Viral is overtuned and in need of nerfs, and doesn't match what the weapon was designed as.

It's entirely possible we will get a future variant of Acrid, and for that reason I am keeping this an early game low level weapon and not power creeping it.
If DE wants to make a Kuva Acrid then cool, they could improve on that one to make it a top level weapon, but regular Acrid should not be.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

2 minutes ago, bnuy said:

You're conflating two separate issues.

Huh?

"Acrid is Forgotten"

"Acrid doesn't need to be powerful because its low MR"

 

in that case:

?maybe the reason its forgotten? is because players Ranked Up

and its actually fine as-is if you only want to relegate it to a low-MR temporary weapon?

in which case /thread

 

 

So which is it really?

is it really forgotten? or is it actually just a normal low-MR weapon intended to be forgotten?

[bnuy]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

snip

The reason Acrid was forgotten is because first off, it's semi-auto which is annoying, ask anyone that likes or uses it.
Second, it lacks a real unique mechanic to make it shine among the rest.

I never said Acrid should be bad, I said it simply should not be a top tier weapon.
Would you expect an MR2 weapon to be top tier sitting among the likes of Kuva Bramma and Kuva Zarr?

A weapon doesn't need to be top tier to be enjoyed by the community, it just needs to feel good and perform decently.

[Gremlin]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

 

is it really forgotten? or is it actually just a normal low-MR weapon intended to be forgotten?

I think it really is forgotten. When I started playing, Acrid was the crème de la crème meta of the game. The fact that another gun is implemented that overshadows its once unique mechanic shows that it should probably get a tweak in order to stand out. I think DE is kind of transparent when it comes to trying to breathe life into old weapons with augments and even the implementation of rivens with differentiating disposition stats. 

It's like why not have the low MR version, and then options to improve it later in the game? I feel like these are perfectly fair suggestions to keep it a low tier weapon, but also to give it more variety once new mods are acquired through the syndicate mod, and eventually a riven mod. Those are the most satisfying weapons in the game I would argue. 

 

[Drasiel]

38 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Huh?

"Acrid is Forgotten"

"Acrid doesn't need to be powerful because its low MR"

 

in that case:

?maybe the reason its forgotten? is because players Ranked Up

and its actually fine as-is if you only want to relegate it to a low-MR temporary weapon?

in which case /thread

 

 

So which is it really?

is it really forgotten? or is it actually just a normal low-MR weapon intended to be forgotten?

 

30 minutes ago, bnuy said:

The reason Acrid was forgotten is because first off, it's semi-auto which is annoying, ask anyone that likes or uses it.
Second, it lacks a real unique mechanic to make it shine among the rest.

I never said Acrid should be bad, I said it simply should not be a top tier weapon.
Would you expect an MR2 weapon to be top tier sitting among the likes of Kuva Bramma and Kuva Zarr?

A weapon doesn't need to be top tier to be enjoyed by the community, it just needs to feel good and perform decently.

*pushes glasses higher up onto bridge of nose* ACTUAAAAAAALLY! The reason acrid is forgotten is because of damage 2.0 it used to be a weapon that caused projectile damage with a damage over time tick. What that means for those that were not there is that the weapon Ignored/bypassed armour which was mandatory for "endgame" items at the time because every faction had armour. It was also one of very few weapons at the time that had a DOT so it just wiped out entire planets of enemies with the only casualty being your index finger. Many weapons were hamstrung by losing their "projectile" or "serrated blade" (another type of armour ignore/bypass) damage type Flux rifle, Dread, kunai, despair, glaive (it's been buffed back into supremacy now), and of course acrid to name a few. With poison becoming a moddable damage type and the status system being introduced acrid just didn't have anything that made it special anymore and it was left at the wayside as people moved on to better builds and more interesting weapons.

That said it's been ease of use crept into oblivion and even as a low mastery weapon it could do with a buff but I agree with Bnuy that because kuva weapons now exist it makes more sense to wait for damage change and big buff from a kuva weapon rather than the base acrid

[bnuy]

18 hours ago, Drasiel said:

 

*pushes glasses higher up onto bridge of nose* ACTUAAAAAAALLY! The reason acrid is forgotten is because of damage 2.0 it used to be a weapon that caused projectile damage with a damage over time tick. What that means for those that were not there is that the weapon Ignored/bypassed armour which was mandatory for "endgame" items at the time because every faction had armour. It was also one of very few weapons at the time that had a DOT so it just wiped out entire planets of enemies with the only casualty being your index finger. Many weapons were hamstrung by losing their "projectile" or "serrated blade" (another type of armour ignore/bypass) damage type Flux rifle, Dread, kunai, despair, glaive (it's been buffed back into supremacy now), and of course acrid to name a few. With poison becoming a moddable damage type and the status system being introduced acrid just didn't have anything that made it special anymore and it was left at the wayside as people moved on to better builds and more interesting weapons.

That said it's been ease of use crept into oblivion and even as a low mastery weapon it could do with a buff but I agree with Bnuy that because kuva weapons now exist it makes more sense to wait for damage change and big buff from a kuva weapon rather than the base acrid

Very good point, it was definitely a monster thanks to the old damage system and ignoring armour.
It still has the DOT effectively, as it forces a toxin proc. Though these days it is far from a "top DPS" pick, even if it dealt true damage it wouldn't be.

I will restate, as you agreed with, that if we want a more modern "top DPS" Acrid, it should be given a variant. Even if the base is made interesting and given a quality of life tune-up it should still be a lower tier weapon.
I think on a Kuva Acrid or maybe Acrid Wraith variant that the "expedite suffering" effect could be turned either into a forced gas proc, so it creates an AOE damage instance, or it just deals area damage instead.

Either way, base Acrid is in much need of some love!

[bnuy]

bump!

[Pakaku]

I looked up their stats and was surprised that the Acrid is comparable to the regular Hystrix, when it always felt awful in practice. I'm going to blame the trigger type, there is no reason any non-precision weapon needs to ruin your finger. Just make it auto and bring the crit chance up a few notches and it should be fine.

[Drasiel]

On 2022-07-20 at 8:28 AM, bnuy said:

Very good point, it was definitely a monster thanks to the old damage system and ignoring armour.
It still has the DOT effectively, as it forces a toxin proc. Though these days it is far from a "top DPS" pick, even if it dealt true damage it wouldn't be.

I will restate, as you agreed with, that if we want a more modern "top DPS" Acrid, it should be given a variant. Even if the base is made interesting and given a quality of life tune-up it should still be a lower tier weapon.
I think on a Kuva Acrid or maybe Acrid Wraith variant that the "expedite suffering" effect could be turned either into a forced gas proc, so it creates an AOE damage instance, or it just deals area damage instead.

Either way, base Acrid is in much need of some love!

this got lost in my notifications at some point. 

Gas would technically be a step down in terms of damage, it's a damage type that is only really good against the weakest infested, it no longer has toxins direct to health effect, It's damage over time only calculates off specifically the gas damage, and unlike every other DOT additional stacks don't grant more damage they only grant more range and the range is nothing to write home about. Gas is in a bad place, worse than the acrid itself actually.

[bnuy]

18 hours ago, Pakaku said:

I looked up their stats and was surprised that the Acrid is comparable to the regular Hystrix, when it always felt awful in practice. I'm going to blame the trigger type, there is no reason any non-precision weapon needs to ruin your finger. Just make it auto and bring the crit chance up a few notches and it should be fine.

i disagree about the crit, but yeah making it auto helps a lot for useability
this is a status weapon, we don't need every weapon in the game to be hybrid or crit viable, we should allow status weapons to exist in their own right
 

2 hours ago, Drasiel said:

this got lost in my notifications at some point. 

Gas would technically be a step down in terms of damage, it's a damage type that is only really good against the weakest infested, it no longer has toxins direct to health effect, It's damage over time only calculates off specifically the gas damage, and unlike every other DOT additional stacks don't grant more damage they only grant more range and the range is nothing to write home about. Gas is in a bad place, worse than the acrid itself actually.

the point would be turning the damage burst into an aoe status effect, along with that the forced gas proc means you deal the burst damage and then deal a bonus damage over time effect after, you are right that gas damage is weaker, but that's something to consider with an overall status rebalance, an individual weapon isn't the place to try and address that in my opinion

Edited April 24, 2023 by bnuy

[Drasiel]

2 hours ago, bnuy said:

i disagree about the crit, but yeah making it auto helps a lot for useability
this is a status weapon, we don't need every weapon in the game to be hybrid or crit viable, we should allow status weapons to exist in their own right
 

the point would be turning the damage proc into an aoe damage effect, you are right that gas damage is weaker, but that's something to consider with an overall status rebalance, an individual weapon isn't the place to try and address that in my opinion

While I agree gas needs work on its own, we as players have two paths for reworks: one that will work well in the game we have and one that would work well if the game were perfect. We, unfortunately, don't have that perfect game and it's very hard for a lot of people to appreciate a rework that doesn't address what we are working with right at the moment.

I think rather than just relying gas to create an AOE something much more unique and interesting might be going an infection route, where it creates a contagion similar to a stripped-down version of Saryn's spores that spreads among enemies that come too close to enemies under its effect. Something more like a modified chaining weapon kind of idea rather than just another AOE cloud. 

[Skull]

it would be nice if DE will finally just release an Incarnon adaptor for acrid, so she could finally get some love !! Thought they should release this idea for Acrid wraith before incarnon, could even be bring bei Baro!! 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Skull

[bnuy]

bump