Please rework Frost, its been 9 years

[(PSN)rexis12]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

Terrify is a helminth subsumable Avalanche that casts faster and only costs 50 energy with literally the exact same base stats as Avalanche.

If you're just looking at the stats sure.

But Avalanche:

1. Root enemies in place.

2. Has no enemy cap.

3. Deals damage.

4. PERMENANTLY reduces armor

Hell it even strips Acolytes which can't be done with Terrify.

Also fyi Terrify costs 75 energy, not 50.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

Regardless, if you can't immediately kill unarmored

I want you know that Terrify is a 360 AoE cast that also reaches above you. Unless you're using an AoE weapon, there will be enemies that are out of sight and out of range and considering we're talking about Frost, also cause the Defense wave to last THAT much longer.

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

21 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

If you're just looking at the stats sure.

But Avalanche:

1. Root enemies in place.

2. Has no enemy cap.

3. Deals damage.

4. PERMENANTLY reduces armor

Hell it even strips Acolytes which can't be done with Terrify.

Also fyi Terrify costs 75 energy, not 50.

I want you know that Terrify is a 360 AoE cast that also reaches above you. Unless you're using an AoE weapon, there will be enemies that are out of sight and out of range and considering we're talking about Frost, also cause the Defense wave to last THAT much longer.

Massive oversight on energy consumption. 

However, point still stands. 

Why run frost for avalanche when I can put on wukong and subsume terrify for the same effect?

That's the problem with avalanche in that it doesn't offer anything particularly useful over other counterparts.

seeking shuriken? That ability is primarily an augment so 1. not even base function 2. is single target and mainly used for demolysts.

Now we can get into legitimate comparisons.

Unairu is a focus school that can be ran on any warframe and armor strips at the cost of passively regenerative energy. There is a downside of there being stronger focus schools for specified setups.

Terrify can be ran on any warframe and pretty much does what avalanche wants to do but with a faster response time and less energy consumption over time.

Cost over time:

75-100

150-200

225-300

300-400

375-500

can keep going but generally speaking if a helminth ability is doing what an ultimate ability on one warframe does already for any warframe then I think that's an issue.

you also have tharros strike that is also a decent option over seeking shuriken example as it pushes demolysts back.

then there's caliban but he's considerably bad too so.

I want you to know that this is a post about the state of frost and how considerably bad he is in the current state of the meta and not a stare down of reminding viewers why they wouldn't want to use him.

Oh wow minor differences that quite frankly doesn't offer anything over the universal option presented.

 

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

A permanent armor strip does not generally matter if the enemy in question is dead before the timer hits 0 or the armor removal gets nullified. And still having a lower energy costs allows for more leniency on top of being able to fully restore shields with one augur mod and brief respite.

 

[(PSN)rexis12]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

Why run frost for avalanche when I can put on wukong and subsume terrify for the same effect

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

If the only thing that matters to you in a kit is the Armor Strip, then why even look at the rest of the frame in the first place.

"I can just put an Armor Strip ability on another Frame, so why should I play this Frame?"

Like what?

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

That's the problem with avalanche in that it doesn't offer anything particularly useful over other counterparts

Like you're just looking at costs, without looking at anything else.

"What does Avalanche do compared to the rest"

Literally everything I posted. Just because YOU don't give a S#&$ about Perma Armor Strip, Rooted Enemy, extra Status effects for CO, CC, and damage, is not Avalanche's fault.

10 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

A permanent armor strip does not generally matter if the enemy in question is dead before the timer hits 0 or the armor removal gets nullified. And still having a lower energy costs allows for more leniency on top of being able to fully restore shields with one augur mod and brief respite.

 

Alright cool, Terrify has things you like. But that doesn't make it the 'Better' version of Avalanche.

Like some people don't like it when enemies run, especially in certain maps. Some people would refer if armor strip was just permenant instead of on a timer.

11 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

then there's caliban but he's considerably bad too so.

Oh hey since he came up, did you know that Caliban's Sentient Wrath is a cheaper version of Rhino's Stomp?

Are you going to make the same comparison there as well?

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

If the only thing that matters to you in a kit is the Armor Strip, then why even look at the rest of the frame in the first place.

I quite literally put out a rework yet you completely ignored it. Lol.

7 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Like you're just looking at costs, without looking at anything else.

Probably because avalanche doesn't really offer anything else that's worth mentioning in my experience.

8 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Literally everything I posted. Just because YOU don't give a S#&$ about Perma Armor Strip, Rooted Enemy, extra Status effects for CO, CC, and damage, is not Avalanche's fault.

Language, friend.

It sort of is, though. How am I supposed to be compelled to use avalanche over the competition?

9 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Alright cool, Terrify has things you like. But that doesn't make it the 'Better' version of Avalanche.

Kind of does, though.

One is a helminth subsume

the other is forced on an outdated warframe.

9 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Like some people don't like it when enemies run, especially in certain maps. Some people would refer if armor strip was just permenant instead of on a timer.

That's why we have unairu for the alternative. Some people want to give frost a stronger kit. Is that too much to ask for after... idk... 9 YEARS?

10 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Oh hey since he came up, did you know that Caliban's Sentient Wrath is a cheaper version of Rhino's Stomp?

Are you going to make the same comparison there as well?

No, because caliban is not frost therefor it is completely irrelevant to the topic, lol.

Nice try on the troll.

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

 

 

On 2023-07-15 at 8:23 PM, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

Consider it done.

New passive: When hit by any source, frost has an 80% chance to proc the enemy with cold status. Each cold status Frost applies to an enemy reduces the damage he receives from heat, puncture, and toxin to an upwards of 50%. Immune to slow effects and cold procs (artic eximus auras, cryotic sortie modifier, cryotic containers for example).

Freeze: frost freezes a target for (x) seconds.

• Killing that target freezes nearby targets in (y) radius applying all afflicted status effects.
  • This is to update an old ability that doesn't see much use other than popping snow globes.
• The range of afflicted enemies on target kill is affected by range mods.
• Freeze duration and status duration on secondary effect are affected by mods.
• This can now completely remove armor dependent on avalanche's armor removal value and when cast on an enemy affected by avalanche it increases their damage vulnerability to all sources.
  • However, the armor removal only effects the initial target. The damage vulnerability is applied to nearby enemies and stacks on another if an enemy under the effect of the vulnerability is killed.
    • This effect only adds said vulnerability to enemies under the damage vulnerability effect.
• Freeze force now applies to elemental combinations and as a singular proc source.
  • this is to have a reliable means of using the augment in the circuit.

Ice wave

• Damage is heavily converted into Ips values.
  • This is for lower levels.
• applies 5 stacks of cold status. 
  • this is to synergize with his passive.
• enemies slowed have reduced accuracy.
  • This is to help out in later missions.
• Ice wave impendence now freezes targets on max cold stacks for x seconds.
  • This is to make it a better option in helminth.
• Ice wave now instantly knocks down nearby enemies in a 5 meter radius
  • This is to give frost more breathing room when casting an upper body ability.

 

Snow globe

• Invulnerable for 5 seconds and accumulated damage to health is by percentage.
• hold cast snow globe to have frost walk around with it as a shield.
  • as requested by players.
• base range increased from 5m radius to 8m radius.
  • Wanted to push the extra defensive value of snow globe without overshadowing mass vitrify.
• Shots from the outside from allies now bypass the globe.
• Enemies now have a chance to become frozen for every second spent in snow globe.
  • It also now has a chance to apply cold status for every second enemies spend in the globe if they have overguard.
• chilling globe now pushes enemies outside of snow globe when they are frozen dealing 50% of their health as true damage regardless of collision. 
  • While this will not bypass overguard's damage nullification towards health, it will still push eximus units and the like out.
• chilling globe now also provides a damage reduction value to frost and allies within snow globe.
  • this is to make frost a formidable defensive warfame at higher levels.
• Snow globe now has a UI change to show how much health it has similarly to gara's splinter storm damage UI.
  • This is to help new players understand advanced mechanics of Warframes earned at the same early state of the game.

Avalanche

• Increased 60% armor strip value at base to 80%
  • This is to compensate for terrify, a helminth ability, having 50% armor reduction for half of the energy cost.
• Increased base range from 15 meters to 22 meters.
  • This ability is to provide a reason to cast 100 energy and helps new players understand how cc is supposed to function.
• Increased casting speed.
  • This is because frost is completely vulnerable while casting avalanche and wouldn't allow for the player to counteract any eximus unit.
• icy avalanche updated to apply frost's passive.
  • this will now have the respectful damage resistances for cold status effects applied count towards the overall health pool of frost's overguard.

 

I've used frost so much that he is my 3rd most used Warframe on a 7-year-old account. The whole idea of the rework was to make warframe the prime example of what the cold proc is supposed to be; a sheer force of will to be unstoppable.

Would love feedback.

 

Here is the entire rework in question.

Maybe instead of +1'ing to someone that clearly cannot read an in depth revamp to a completely outdated warframe.

I give examples as to why the abilities in his kit are bad but clearly your primary focus is to waste time on one outdated ability and not the rest.

[(PSN)rexis12]

45 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

 

 

Here is the entire rework in question.

Maybe instead of +1'ing to someone that clearly cannot read an in depth revamp to a completely outdated warframe.

I give examples as to why the abilities in his kit are bad but clearly your primary focus is to waste time on one outdated ability and not the rest.

Lmao, the excuse is still the same

You just think that Avalanche is worse because another ability just one component of it on a cheaper energy cost, while ignoring the rest of the functions of Avalanche.

What am I supposed to understand, that an Armor Strip with CC rooting, damage, permenant armour strip with no enemy cap has a higher energy cost than an armor strip with an enemy cap and a bad CC effect? Yeah no duh it has a higher energy cost when it has more functions to the ability.

[(PSN)rexis12]

56 minutes ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

No, because caliban is not frost therefor it is completely irrelevant to the topic, lol.

So why'd you bring uo Caliban first then huh?

It's also relevant to the point of comparison you're making with Avalanche and Terrify, where it's the "Same but Better" ignoring everything about the tow abilities.

[TheGodofWiFi]

On 2023-07-17 at 12:14 AM, (PSN)rexis12 said:

What?

Terrify is a AoE Strip and Fear that has an enemy cap and cause a reduction in KPS when you don't immediately kill the enemies or waste an extra mod slots for Creeping Terrify.

Avalanche is an AoE Strip with Damage and Freeze effects that Doesn't have an enemy cap and roots most enemies in place.

Just because they're AoE strips, it's not the 'exact same'

The enemy cap for Terrify really doesn't matter considering most enemies affected will be dead by the time you recast it. It's also a permanent armour-strip and so you can just recast it over again and even if the fear affect wears off on enemies they still have no armour.

Freeze effects also aren't as useful as you make them out to be. If freezing an enemy made them more vulnerable to damage, as it naturally should, then it would have an extra edge over Terrify but right now it doesn't.

As a final point, there is a reason why Nekros is in the top twenty most-used frames whilst Frost isn't even in the top-thirty. A frame needs more than just an armour-strip these days. Frost's armour-strip is decent, but Nekros has it too and also brings a lot more to the table, such as more loot, a self-sustaining cycle of infinite energy and health and a very handy 90% Damage Reduction ability.

Frost is not used despite his on-paper potential because, like Caliban, having one decent ability is not enough. He needs more.

[TheGodofWiFi]

Sorry to say, but Hydroid is the frame getting a rework next. Pablo implied as much in the Q&A section of the last Devstream. As for whether or not Frost will be after Hydroid who knows, but the pirate is the one who is getting DE's attention the most because unlike Frost, Hydroid has nothing. 

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Sorry to say, but Hydroid is the frame getting a rework next. Pablo implied as much in the Q&A section of the last Devstream. As for whether or not Frost will be after Hydroid who knows, but the pirate is the one who is getting DE's attention the most because unlike Frost, Hydroid has nothing. 

I hope they do something cool with hydroid. He is one of my all time favorite frames when it comes to theme and aesthetic.

[Gabriel_Urs]

With the rework to cold damage I got back some inspiration and thought of a number of ways Frost could receive some love:

1. PASSIVE: To improve on what he already has, Frost's chance to freeze melee attackers happens before he receives damage, and all melee attackers are guaranteed to receive a cold proc regardless if they freeze or not. Cold status effect doesn't slow Frost down, instead he receives a buff to either his shield recharge speed and delay or to his energy efficiency. All his abilities freeze the floor which Frost gains a benefit from by standing on that could be lower friction, increased power strength or adding cold status to all his weapons. All frozen floor created by Frost's abilities has a 50% to deal a cold proc to standing enemies and lowers movement speed by a flat 25% (the maximum movement speed reduction remains 90%). Base duration of the ice patches left by freezing the floor is 15 seconds affected by power duration.
2. FREEZE: Hitting an enemy directly with the projectile freezes them, as well as reduce armour like Avalanche (permanently and with the same scaling, but the armour strip is applied AFTER dealing damage). Holding the ability button throws three projectiles horizontally that deal half damage, don't freeze enemies solid if they score a direct hit and have 50% increased range. The AoE applies 5 cold stacks on hit;
3. ICE WAVE: Its augment is integrated with the basic ability to work with the expanded passive. The augment now increases damage dealt to enemies already affected by cold status by 100% per stack, up to 400% (this multiplier is not affected by power strength, only the base damage being multiplied). Hitting a frozen enemy deals true damage and shoves them away in the direction of the ice wave;
4. SNOW GLOBE: The ability gets an UI element to show the health of each snow globe you have up. You can use the ability as normal by spamming the ability button or you can hold it down to start channeling it. While channeling you are immobile, can't use weapons and the damage you take is transferred to the snow globe, your energy is gradually converted into snow globe health, your snow globe absorbs damage it receives into health and damage reduction up to 50% (capped at 90% DR with 140% power strength, any more increases the speed at which you can reach the cap). Breaking a snow globe with Freeze deals cold damage in an area equal to its total health and reduces armour equal to 100% of its damage resistance to enemies inside the globe (half damage and half armour reduction to enemies outside, with a 50% falloff. Same story as Freeze for the armour strip) and applies 5 cold stacks on all enemies hit. Power range lowers the damage dealt from breaking a snow globe down to a minimum of 30% (at 170% power range). Power strength affects the health cap of snow globes (reminder that snow globe's max health is 1M);
5. AVALANCHE: It's currently in a good position, though it would be interesting if you could hold the ability to increase the radius up to 50%. It wouldn't be like Hydroid's 4 because Avalanche stuns and freezes the enemies in the radius;
6. INTERACTION WITH NULLIFIERS: Nullifier bubbles thaw the floor. Snow globes don't get instantly deleted but receive % damage on contact with a bubble and lose damage resistance. Enemies can shoot through the overlap between a snow globe and a nullifier bubble.

Testing will be needed to ensure my numbers aren't going overboard, but I'm positive this set of changes will help Frost's gameplay in being more dynamic and hold up to the modern content. Giving Frost a ton of options to apply cold status and soft CC enemies would allow him to move around more instead of cowering inside his snow globe, and buffing the 3-1 synergy by increasing the damage based on health would encourage using it a lot more to deal actually meaningful amounts of damage, with a bigger reward the more energy you invested on it, and it may be a bit of a stretch saying this but I would dare to add it would make being unable to shoot through it from outside feel like a balance feature instead of just byproduct of Frost being an old design.

[Harutomata]

It'd be cool if DE atleast added level scaling damage to his abilities (it wasn't a thing when he released). Avalanche being his ultimate and doing few thousands of not scaling cold damage is a bit funny against mobs which have hundreds of thousands of EHP. Especially with the ability being Frost's ultimate.
Some changes to his base stats wouldn't be bad either (max energy especially), but some of his abilities do need a rework regardless.

DE should realize that while augment mods can help, each of them takes up a mod slot, so reworks and buffs would be better. Some of Frost's current augments should already work the way the augment makes them work and he still wouldn't be OP, especially compared to many of the relatively newer warframes.

[prodi1600]

On 2022-07-20 at 4:52 PM, Leqesai said:

"We at Digital Extremes have heard your concerns regarding one of the Warframes most in need of improvement. In response we will be buffing Mag and Excalibur. Have a nice day."

seems legit

[Fred_Avant_2019]

I don't know... I've mained Frost for a couple years now and he doesn't seem to be as god awful as this thread make it seem.

His passive is definitely lacking, the Biting Frost augment shouldn't really exist, just have those stats applied to the default passive, much like when Zephyr's passive was updated to gain critical hit chance when airborne.

His 1st ability is fairly simple but does the job alright, maybe the floor component of it should scale with strength and range as well.

His 2nd ability is definitely lacking, you can only get so much out of affecting enemies in a cone. Gaining armor stacks based on how many enemies were hit would do the trick just fine to ramp up his globe's HP.

His 3rd ability snowglobe should have an augment where it behaves like arctic eximus units, following you around, but limiting to a single instance of the globe. Also Chilling Globe shouldn't be a chance to fully freeze a target.

His 4th ability is fine as is honestly, the cast is slow, the damage ain't the highest, but that's not what it tries to achieve. (couple casting speed shards will do the trick)

 

Frost isn't designed around being a caster like your average Ember would be. His kit is protection and crowd control so that you can easily use your weapons on enemies you controlled. And if you don't like it you can still spam snowglobes for true damage against walls.

[Leqesai]

2 hours ago, prodi1600 said:

seems legit

Especially considering less than 2 months after my post Mag and Excal were buffed... lol