The problem with "augument Warframes"

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

9 hours ago, trst said:

Except, yet again, you do not always need access to half of those abilities nor do you always need to stack Mend or Maim that much.

Night form's bonus shields/armor, sleeping enemies, enemy damage reduction, slow, and heal are all to grant you more survivability. You can replace all of that by using other systems for survivability like Mods (Rolling Guard), Arcanes (Guardian, Grace, Molt Reconstruct), Focus abilities (Vazarin or Unairu), or Operator Arcanes (Nourish or Repair).

While Day form grants bonus weapon damage, increased damage to enemies, bonus power strength, and an AOE nuke. You can replace literally all of that by taking stronger weapons or by again using things like Arcanes for more weapon and/or ability damage (notably Avenger or Molt Augmented).

As well more survivability is redundant if enemies die too fast to hurt you while killing them faster isn't required if they don't deal enough damage to you to be a threat.

 

Again, the only one limiting your frame and mod capacity is your own choice in upgrades. If you choose to always need access to these effects and you don't want to use any of the alternatives then you're choosing to make the augments mandatory. Nothing in this game exists within a vacuum separate from the rest of your loadout.

"instead of using night mode to survive, let's just use day mode and then spam rolling guard"

That's really not what you are supposed to use equinox for. As already said, you are supposed to be constantly switching between the two forms in order to utilize them. If you have to stack tons of damage for day form to even utilize maim that's the frame's own flaw implemented by the developers, and we all know you do have to do that in order to kill any enemy with high armor or shields.

The fact your argument is "just don't use the other aspect use other mods instead" shows that equinox is a frame with abilities you ever augument or drop. 

Or as i put it: "mandatory auguments" required to make those abilities useful.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

When you say "I like Ash because" of an augment that mean the frame needs a revisit and you don`t value Ash on his own.

People don`t like this stat because it reveals the truth but I will always bring it up:

Spoiler

 

To me augments are meant to change how you use the ability however I don`t think his 1 and 3 augment should be integrated into his abilities.

Here is what I would do to his augments:

Seeking Shuriken

·       This now strips enemies’ defences and throws multiple shuriken's in a cone, however it does not benefit from the press and hold mechanic, the benefits from the single shuriken and the ability combo multiplier. 

 

Elemental Smoke 

·       Passive – smoke cloud has 5 seconds of duration.

·       It now affects npcs.

·       Depending on what elemental status affect(s) you have on your melee weapon will determine the smoke cloud`s affect e.g. toxic cloud.

·       The status affect will last twice as long e.g. toxin 6 secs to 12 secs.

 

Fatal Teleport

·       Passive – It has a 75% Finisher speed.

·       After killing an enemy, the next three enemies will be opened up to finishers whether they are alerted or not and will continue after that.

·       Each finisher will increase finisher damage by 100% up to a max of 300%.

·       You will have 3 secs to do a finisher onto enemies until the ability resets.

·       Enemies will be open to finishers until they are dead.

 

New: Marked blade

·       Each enemy that is killed from bs will leave an x mark on the ground which when standing on will give Ash and allies 40% critical chance and 40% running speed. Enemies that stand on it will be knocked down and be vulnerable to slash damage by 50% for 15 seconds.

·       The indicator of ally buff is shown on the top right of the screen.

·       The mark will last 20s until it disappears.

·       Mark duration can be increased by duration mods.

 

But before any of this happens, Ash needs a revisit on the level of Nezha or better.

 

I have also talked about the issues with augments:

 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

When you say "I like Ash because" of an augment that mean the frame needs a revisit and you don`t value Ash on his own.

People don`t like this stat because it reveals the truth but I will always bring it up:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

To me augments are meant to change how you use the ability however I don`t think his 1 and 3 augment should be integrated into his abilities.

Here is what I would do to his augments:

Seeking Shuriken

·       This now strips enemies’ defences and throws multiple shuriken's in a cone, however it does not benefit from the press and hold mechanic, the benefits from the single shuriken and the ability combo multiplier. 

 

Elemental Smoke 

·       Passive – smoke cloud has 5 seconds of duration.

·       It now affects npcs.

·       Depending on what elemental status affect(s) you have on your melee weapon will determine the smoke cloud`s affect e.g. toxic cloud.

·       The status affect will last twice as long e.g. toxin 6 secs to 12 secs.

 

Fatal Teleport

·       Passive – It has a 75% Finisher speed.

·       After killing an enemy, the next three enemies will be opened up to finishers whether they are alerted or not and will continue after that.

·       Each finisher will increase finisher damage by 100% up to a max of 300%.

·       You will have 3 secs to do a finisher onto enemies until the ability resets.

·       Enemies will be open to finishers until they are dead.

 

New: Marked blade

·       Each enemy that is killed from bs will leave an x mark on the ground which when standing on will give Ash and allies 40% critical chance and 40% running speed. Enemies that stand on it will be knocked down and be vulnerable to slash damage by 50% for 15 seconds.

·       The indicator of ally buff is shown on the top right of the screen.

·       The mark will last 20s until it disappears.

·       Mark duration can be increased by duration mods.

 

But before any of this happens, Ash needs a revisit on the level of Nezha or better.

 

I have also talked about the issues with augments:

 

My complaint is less about the auguments and more about the fact the abilities by themselves are useless. People then have to waste mod space on auguments that make those abilities actually useful. This is complicated when we have other auguments meaning that they are competing with each other for space on the build, meaning that if you don't use the band aid auguments in favor of the others the abilities are going to be ignored.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

On 2022-08-06 at 10:22 AM, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

My complaint is less about the auguments and more about the fact the abilities by themselves are useless. People then have to waste mod space on auguments that make those abilities actually useful. This is complicated when we have other auguments meaning that they are competing with each other for space on the build, meaning that if you don't use the band aid auguments in favor of the others the abilities are going to be ignored.

For Ash specifically, you don't need Seeking Shuriken while using Ash, because his 3 and 4 bypass armor (defenses). When I was new I didn't know how Bleed worked either. 

Shuriken is amazing when helminthed to another frame. 

For example, Wukong with Seeking Shuriken for Apollo Disruption. Apply shuriken once close to Demolyst, then attack, while refreshing once the ability stripping aura is activated.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

For Ash specifically, you don't need Seeking Shuriken while using Ash, because his 3 and 4 bypass armor (defenses). When I was new I didn't know how Bleed worked either. 

Shuriken is amazing when helminthed to another frame. 

For example, Wukong with Seeking Shuriken for Apollo Disruption. Apply shuriken once close to Demolyst, then attack, while refreshing once the ability stripping aura is activated.

I know how bleed works, the thing is, ash's passive and the extra 10 seconds of combo from his 4th augument + the fact bladestorm benefits off of and increases melee combo, and that makes him a really good frame if you use melee weapons. Armor strip simply allows you to do extra damage to grineer.

[BDMblue]

Problem was Pabs liked us changing are builds up to put these mods in. I honestly hate wasting a slot so the vast majority of these augments I’ve never tried and unless I can put them on for free won’t.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2022-08-06 at 3:22 PM, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

My complaint is less about the auguments and more about the fact the abilities by themselves are useless. People then have to waste mod space on auguments that make those abilities actually useful. This is complicated when we have other auguments meaning that they are competing with each other for space on the build, meaning that if you don't use the band aid auguments in favor of the others the abilities are going to be ignored.

And I agree, warframe abilities need to be good on their own and not be usable with an augment and Ash is the perfect example of this and the stat proves it so I'm glad you mentioned him coz ppl make out that Ash is perfect when he`s not, the facts that you use his augments to cover his issues says it all.