AoE Changes - subtle but impactful? [post Devstream discussion]

[_LotusPrime_]

17 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

 What does mobility have to do with a logic nerf? Are you telling me that if you nerf  the AOE the weapons that don't have AOE won't work for the current content? Are you dumb or are you playing dumb?

again another full package of .. 

1- mobility has to do with it because some forum users like you never like efficency and up for every possible nerf for that route to happen , so the logical comclusion of that mindset would be to also getting rid of fast paced warframe gameplay because its efficent and your warfrae view is that it shouldnt be efficent , its based on efficency.

2- i didnt say aoe weapons that dont have launcher aoe wont work for the current content , youre putting words to my mouth , but yes with the forum nerf logic , the next big thing after they nerf launchers would be then to nerf beam weapons then niche weapons like zymos that have aoe then warframe abilities till no one uses those on pub-matchmaking because thats the logic that drives those talking points 

if you put words in my mouth the second time ,its ignore time 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 2 minutos, _LotusPrime_ dijo:

anyways i wont bother with a troll this was your response to other person ; <

so much for the 'argumnet integrity' you expect from me when you post sht like this ... shame 

It is exactly as it says, almost 2 years with broken AOE weapons, it is time to change it, the argument is there, the one who does not see it is you.

[_LotusPrime_]

2 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Anyway, i stop wasting my time here, the nerf will come because it's the right thing to do, whether you cry or not.

another brilliant post from our friend over here :) ' cry ' is that all you can say , shame .

 

[_LotusPrime_]

@CosoMalvadoNG I dont need your rage bait posts , you have no solid arguments you are just angry yourself and projecting it , good luck with your life.

[cute_moth.npc]

9 minutes ago, _LotusPrime_ said:

FF14 s a hit for sure okay i dont play that game , do they nerf too much or do they have bullet/hit  sponge units ? 

They nerf / buff whenever one of the classes in a role (Tank, Healer, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Caster DPS) falls behind other classes in that same role by more than 1-2%, it's very different because the classes HAVE to be very competitive with each other or they get locked out from group play in end game content (the content is very demanding on overall group damage)

Once classes are adjusted and balanced to each other, they are then left that way until the end of the expansion where in the next expansion they get new skills with new levels and the developers balance them and do it all over again ^^

There have been instances where they've messed up, but overall Square Enix doesn't leave a gross imbalance between classes longer than a patch cycle. 

It's a very different game. Stuff in Warframe can be relatively pretty unbalanced and the game still plays fine. XIV literally would not work like that because of how tight the raiding encounters are. 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 4 minutos, _LotusPrime_ dijo:

@CosoMalvadoNG I dont need your rage bait posts , you have no solid arguments you are just angry yourself and projecting it , good luck with your life.

Pff If I don't think the same as you and I contradict you with something logical, i'm an angry person who writes sh*t xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

 

[_LotusPrime_]

6 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

They nerf / buff whenever one of the classes in a role (Tank, Healer, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Caster DPS) falls behind other classes in that same role by more than 1-2%, it's very different because the classes HAVE to be very competitive with each other or they get locked out from group play in end game content (the content is very demanding on overall group damage)

Once classes are adjusted and balanced to each other, they are then left that way until the end of the expansion where in the next expansion they get new skills with new levels and the developers balance them and do it all over again ^^

There have been instances where they've messed up, but overall Square Enix doesn't leave a gross imbalance between classes longer than a patch cycle. 

It's a very different game. Stuff in Warframe can be relatively pretty unbalanced and the game still plays fine. XIV literally would not work like that because of how tight the raiding encounters are. 

i understand , its a different envoirnment that demands very different things because of how general mmos work i presume and just like yourself explained.

maybe we are lucky in the sense that warframe isnt bound to those specific class relations. and i appreciate your post 

[cute_moth.npc]

1 hour ago, _LotusPrime_ said:

i understand , its a different envoirnment that demands very different things because of how general mmos work i presume and just like yourself explained.

maybe we are lucky in the sense that warframe isnt bound to those specific class relations.

I mean, I love XIV to death and I also really love Warframe.

I find it amazing that they manage to balance these classes that all play so differently from others so tightly, the classes play WAY differently from each other and they still are very tight.

There is also something very fun about flying, modding to insanity and being able to get away with some really dumb builds too and I like the Warframe approach as well!

They're a pair of games that are overall sort of difficult to fairly compare to each other to begin with because aside from both having housing and fashion they basically share nothing else in common gameplay wise.

I do think that it would be sweet if D.E. kidnapped the balance team from XIV and got them to fix pets, status effects, stances and stuff like that though. Just sneak them away in a big box and they will be done and back home in Japan in less than a week lol. 

[Tyreaus]

11 hours ago, _LotusPrime_ said:

Is warframe a cookie clicker, maybe right now. 

 

Should it change? The real question is change towards what exactly. 

 

Lets say warframe is a cookie clicker, i would say its not JUST that, you get to feel power and mobility you cant see anywhere else on other 3d games. And i dont think thats bad really, 

 

And not only that but we are at a point where even if DE would try to make this game very hunched and s controlled combat oriented, it wouldnt stick with the community and for example how do you think DE can complete with input reflex based competitive games if they go that route? 

 

Maybe if this game was new but we are past that, also probably they wanna achieve that sort of thing with their new mmo project 

The functional issue isn't that Warframe approaches the state of an idle game, it's that it refuses to embrace that and work in that framework.

The thing is, it doesn't have to abandon...well, pretty much any of its current gameplay ideas. It's mostly about a change in philosophy and overarching structure. Where are the massive list of achievements for long-term goals on resource and item gathering? Where's the prestige system, starting the player over from scratch with permanent boosts that make repeated runs a little bit faster? Where's the prolonged breadth of content, rather than having huge chunks of the game at lower levels and MRs? Where are the benefits to keeping lower-tiered weapons that are currently MR fodder? Where are the continual milestones in numbers?

All of those sorts of signature "idle game" elements can come alongside action-based gameplay. Most idle games have optimized active states, not passive ones, after all. And does any of the above necessarily change how any of the active gameplay feels? Maybe the modding system but in a mission, things can look the same. You can have the insane power fantasy and the mobility and rhythms in gameplay. But you actually have to decide. You have to choose that framework and build within that framework. You can't do halfsies. Giving the player big numbers without big milestones is pointless. And the usage stats show as much: I've got a Bramma and Wukong, what else would I need?

[_LotusPrime_]

22 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

The functional issue isn't that Warframe approaches the state of an idle game, it's that it refuses to embrace that and work in that framework.

The thing is, it doesn't have to abandon...well, pretty much any of its current gameplay ideas. It's mostly about a change in philosophy and overarching structure. Where are the massive list of achievements for long-term goals on resource and item gathering? Where's the prestige system, starting the player over from scratch with permanent boosts that make repeated runs a little bit faster? Where's the prolonged breadth of content, rather than having huge chunks of the game at lower levels and MRs? Where are the benefits to keeping lower-tiered weapons that are currently MR fodder? Where are the continual milestones in numbers?

All of those sorts of signature "idle game" elements can come alongside action-based gameplay. Most idle games have optimized active states, not passive ones, after all. And does any of the above necessarily change how any of the active gameplay feels? Maybe the modding system but in a mission, things can look the same. You can have the insane power fantasy and the mobility and rhythms in gameplay. But you actually have to decide. You have to choose that framework and build within that framework. You can't do halfsies. Giving the player big numbers without big milestones is pointless. And the usage stats show as much: I've got a Bramma and Wukong, what else would I need?

interesting take alright. you dont see that much in these forums

well i agree with the roadmaps , there should be .. more at least , the power level should also match content 

and the modding system but in a mission also sounds fun , i dont know i dont have much disagreements there .

Tho i dont exactly know what you mean by not doing halfsies , you think they should fully commit to the idle mobile game genre or were you just saying that to make another point a bit confused there.

edit; typos 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

Bro 492 replies? You all that worked up about the next update?

I know AoE is controversial but this much? Take a break, there's more to talk about than rocket launchers.

[Tyreaus]

32 minutes ago, _LotusPrime_ said:

Tho i dont exactly know what you mean by not doing halfsies , you think they should fully commint to the idle mobile game genre or were you just saying that to make another point a bit confused there.

It's more that they ought to commit, period.

The damage thing is the fact that we're given all this damage with no systems in place to welcome it or continue pushing it further. We get six, sometimes seven, digits of damage, but most content falls over from five-digit numbers. We have all this power with no designed milestones.

In response to that, there's a few options. The damage could get fixed, bringing the numbers down from 6-7 digits to 5, something that could fit within extant constraints. DE doesn't seem willing to hit the nerf button too hard, though, and sensibly so. The alternative is to expand upwards. Typically in idle games, this is a spiral fashion: you go from start, to end, then reset to the start with some other bonus to repeat the cycle a little bit faster. Indefinitely. But Warframe is set in particular constraints and the current design philosophy, where design levels only go up alongside new content releases (see Zariman, Steel Path), doesn't allow indefinite progression.

(Note that the spiral progression isn't the only way to do it, or even the key part. It's having looser constraints that a game's algorithm can keep pushing up as a player progresses. Level scaling is an example, it's just very bare-bones, with no real excitement, let alone changes, when progressing through endurance runs. It also takes forever and is isolated to certain missions.)

So they're not committing to the nerfs needed to get things within the current game's constraints. They're also not committing to any sort of algorithmic progression, like the spiral above, that could loosen those constraints. They want the constraints on the design, but don't want to pull everything into those constraints.

Halfsies.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

16 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Mate, I appreciate what you are trying to do, but this guy you are talking to is not interested in a discussion or arguments or help. He wants to be right and wants to get it his way or no way. I play Gyre everyday in Steel Path and he is great against Corpus.

We had the same happening before the melee "nerf". Everyone was going apeS#&amp;&#036; and now it is absolutely acceptable and brought melee in line with other weaponry.

 

Cheers and yeah, I am familiar with the user and their former moniker. 

I usually don't seek out replies that seem like they are venting or expressing personal frustrations, since I can sympathise with that. If a person seems somewhat sincere and good faith enough, I'll usually reply, with sincerity and good faith too. If they stop seeming sincere, I know enough about rhetorical techniques and devices to point out such behaviour and how it can undermine the idea they are trying to push. I think with this user, they are sincere much of the time, but certain topics are hot button issues for them, and they are ready to war for their opinions. 

Speaking of Gyre, yeah, am glad others are still playing her. I find her very similar in play style to Mag, and think both do very well in Steel Path. She can lack some of Mag's defensive options, but being able to Crit with powers is pretty fun. 

Yeah I remember the melee threads too. I wasn't active on forums pre-pandemic, but stumbling across some of the older threads can be amusing too. You get to see a lot of confidently incorrect peoples posts from times past. "Nidus will never be Primed as it won't make sense", and often, many people don't realise they are creating such posts in real time. 

I'm sure once the changes are in the live version of the game, such threads will be less contentious. 

[cute_moth.npc]

19 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Then perhaps you shouldn't quote people and ask them what you should do? If you say can't do something? Someone will want to help you. Or if you were being rhetorical, then be careful, because... It would be incredibly easy for many of us players to post videos of us playing Steel Path with Gyre and having no issues at all. Hard evidence.

Here I tried her with 0 Forma - I stacked a ton of defensive mods on her after reading about how hard she was to survive with but this was probably not actually the right way to set her up?

And this is the WIZARDS ONLY, FOOLS challenge - no using weapons! I like her, she's like spammy Vauban lol

Maybe I should put at least one defensive mod on this build though I almost ate it ^^;

 

Neither of these videos are going to change that certain player's mind or get them to stop spewing intellectual dishonesty like a broken fire hydrant but that's okay ^^

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

34 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

Here I tried her with 0 Forma - I stacked a ton of defensive mods on her after reading about how hard she was to survive with but this was probably not actually the right way to set her up?

And this is the WIZARDS ONLY, FOOLS challenge - no using weapons! I like her, she's like spammy Vauban lol

Maybe I should put at least one defensive mod on this build though I almost ate it ^^;

 

Neither of these videos are going to change that certain player's mind or get them to stop spewing intellectual dishonesty like a broken fire hydrant but that's okay ^^

 

 

Magnificante!! Great gameplay, and yeah, I like the comparison to Vauban. In my head she is like a mix of Vauban and Mag. 

Oh and your choice of music was dope too! I haven't watched the second clip yet though. Great stuff. 

[cute_moth.npc]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

 

 

Magnificante!! Great gameplay, and yeah, I like the comparison to Vauban. In my head she is like a mix of Vauban and Mag. 

Oh and your choice of music was dope too! I haven't watched the second clip yet though. Great stuff. 

I liked using that Vermisplicer again! I sometimes look at it in the armory and it says it does 184 damage and I'm like.. no lol, pass, then I go and use Tombfinger.

It is actually vicious though xD

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

25 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

I liked using that Vermisplicer again! I sometimes look at it in the armory and it says it does 184 damage and I'm like.. no lol, pass, then I go and use Tombfinger.

It is actually vicious though xD

 

I kept getting really good Riven rolls for it, so started to invest in it after getting a bit bored of other weapons, and yeaahh, its pretty fun. I don't think I have updated it with Galvanised Mods or Gun Arcanes though, so I should probably actually dust it off and give it some TLC.

[0_The_F00l]

38 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

I liked using that Vermisplicer again! I sometimes look at it in the armory and it says it does 184 damage and I'm like.. no lol, pass, then I go and use Tombfinger.

It is actually vicious though xD

It is amazing , and you really should build more than one kitgun of the same type with different stats , it can be very different results.

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

It looks that DE erased my posting  lol

[0_The_F00l]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

It looks that DE erased my posting  lol

They merged it i think , that's why I suggested not to spam new topics with the same theme.

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

Just now, 0_The_F00l said:

They merged it i think , that's why I suggested not to spam new topics with the same theme.

your posting won, congrats

[0_The_F00l]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

your posting won, congrats

Not really a competition mate, it's just easier to manage and collaborate.

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

1 minute ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Not really a competition mate, it's just easier to manage and collaborate.

DE erased my opinion on my posting, too. It's kinda manipulation.

[ChaoticEdge]

Just now, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

DE erased my opinion on my posting, too. It's kinda manipulation.

you know this means, just go directly to them.  If this is again one the old school 💩 again about corrupt moderator again which whom we don't speak, it is better go directly the source instead on the forum which I had friend who talk to anonymous person and bam they heard the hell hole from that guy which draw attention with fury and anger paying attention to the savior of warframe rahetalius when he draw the attention to him.  Perfect to kill toxic moderator that been "wrongfully" censorshipping ppl

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

7 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

you know this means, just go directly to them.  If this is again one the old school 💩 again about corrupt moderator again which whom we don't speak, it is better go directly the source instead on the forum which I had friend who talk to anonymous person and bam they heard the hell hole from that guy which draw attention with fury and anger paying attention to the savior of warframe rahetalius when he draw the attention to him.  Perfect to kill toxic moderator that been "wrongfully" censorshipping ppl

Well, whatever they do, consumers decide what they select and play.

In my point of view, if this game focuses on aiming gun game, this game faces on better competetive 3D gun games of solo or multi.