Mathmatic proof that Gauss' Mach Rush needs a speed multiplier increase

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

On 2022-11-11 at 4:11 AM, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Hello everyone! This is a first of a kind post for me, kinda. A few years back I did a deep dive on Grendel's nourish and all the abilities it affects, and today I have a new set of Excel Data to showcase. With it I can prove definitively that Mach Rush is slower then many movement abilities, but I can show by how much, and I can give ideas to make it faster. Buckle in.

 

Back In update 32.1, DE added a cool new stat to 3 things. A speed stat to Revenant's Reave, Gauss' Mach Rush, and a "passive" which at the moment I cannot find. Neither Gauss nor Revenant have a speed value in their passive, and as far as I'm aware no other frame does.  Regardless, we can see some cool data from these new stat lines. Both Reave and Mach Rush have a base speed of 25m/s, equivalent to 56mph, or 90 km/h (The wiki states that Reave is actually 27 m/s, but I am sticking with the game values for now). In fact, at the current time the calculation for Mach Rush is even on the wiki. I cannot find the calculation for Reave, which is what jump started this excel adventure.

 

Mach rush speed = 10.5*(1+sprint speed bonus) + (1+movement speed bonus) + 14.5

Triple checked, and yep, this calculation works like a charm. throw in a mini m/s -> mph equation too and you can see that Gauss can break speeds of 120 mph.

 

Now, I'm going to break this down because it will be important later. Sprint speed and Movement speed are different values. Mods like rush, sprint boost, and abilities like infested mobility all affect sprint speed, which is a value about 25% faster then walking speed. However, movement speed is a multiplicative value, and it is increased through mods like dispatch overdrive and abilities like Volt Speed, Sayrn Molt and Wisp motes. A frame with a sprint speed of 1 has a walking speed of 6m/s, and a running speed of 7.2 m/s. If you increase the base movement speed, you increase walking speed, but not running speed bonus. If you increase sprint speed, you do not increase the base walking speed, just the running speed, but additively.

 

As I was checking speed values between reave and mach rush (I subsumed reave on my Gauss cause it gave me 100% turning control) I noticed that reave seemed to always have a higher speed value then mach rush. with a single rush mod, Reave had a speed of 32.5 to Rush's 28.15. After trying for hours, I was unable to determine the calculation used for Reave's speed, so instead I made a simple scatter plot and found slopes for the two abilities, and the results were both interesting, and as a Gauss main, saddening.

I got as many data points as I could, using every sprint speed mod I could, as well as things like amalgam serration, all done in the simulacrum. Then I took those points, graphed them as a scatter plot and found the slopes.

Obviously Reave will always be higher then Mach Rush, but the astounding discovery was that it was increasing at almost more then 2.5x the speed of mach rush. For every 1% of sprint speed, Reave was gaining a whole 2.5% more speed then mach rush. So I decided to test dispatch overdrive and see how much more reave increased with that. Too my surprise, It didn't gain any speed. Apparently movement speed buffs (remember that includes most abilities) does not increase reave's speed. In fact, the only ability that will is infested mobility since it is strictly a sprint speed (and parkour velocity) buff. So one point for mach rush I guess.

 

An interesting side fact, while Molt, at 308% strength and 2.41 sprint speed increased mach rush from 32ish m/s to 60, infested mobility only increases it to 50ish m/s. But with dispatch overdrive it actually gives infested more value, taking it to 74m/s, whereas molt and dispatch only hit 71 m/s. This is due to the sprint speed value for gauss being multipkied by 10.5, while movement speed is just its own bonus percentage.

 

What about other abilities? If we remember that 1.0 sprint speed is about 6 m/s, then we can math the rest easily. that means that with a base sprint of 1, it takes about 350% bonus sprint speed to go faster. Most frames can get close, but volt, wisp, and sayrn can go even further beyond. Volt at a 100% sprint speed buff from mods, plus 300% movement speed buff from his speed ability, is well known to outpace Gauss. Wisp doesnt have as high of a speed boost, so she doesnt always beat Gauss in a straightaway, but she is easier to control. Sayrn is about as fast as volt but her energy costs makes the build unfeasible at a point.

 

The meme for a while has been "yea Gauss is so fast that he is the slowest speed frame in the game" and as much as I would always use excuses like "well yea, of course he cant compete with titania/nova/zephyr cause he is on foot and they fly/teleport", and even when it became common knowledge volt was faster BEFORE they buffed speed in the veilbreaker patch, I brushed it aside because at least he was still relatively faster then the rest of the cast. Not anymore. Reave is a subsumable ability. ANYONE can use it, which means ANYONE can be faster then Gauss right now. It's just kinda sad. I'd love for DE to buff mach rush somehow, maybe give it a bonus sprint speed multiplier, so if you don't build sprint speed already you aren't suddenly so fast its untenable. For those of us, like me, who consistently run builds with 85-100% increased sprint, a increased multiplier would give us what we want, more speed, and would further fit that fantasy of being the speed frame.

 

I'm not asking to out run titania, nova, zephyr, or hell even volt. I just hate the thought that a basic atlas can subsume reave and be faster WHILE having 100% turn control. My idea to buff Gauss is simple. In his equation for mach rush speed, change the sprint speed multiplier (10.5*(1+ sprint)) to a 20.5*(1+sprint). What does this do numbers wise? It puts mach rush at base to about 35 m/s, only 1.25 m/s slower then what Gauss usually is with both sprint boost and rush.

 

As you can see, not only would this buff give him better speed gains, but it would mean that you could even put new mods on him, since sprint boost and rush would no longer feel as required as before.

 

I know this is a lot to read, and I appreciate anyone who fully read it. I'm a big Gauss fan, and no amount of speed usurping will change that, but I would still love to have him be worthy of the crown at least for a bit.

 

TL:DR

Reave is always faster then mach rush, buff rush by increasing the speed multiplier value to let it scale harder but not be too much stronger at base then it is for those who don't want to go blindly fast.

 

 

P.s. Can anyone tell me how to make links just show the images? I cant seem to figure it out and I'm stuck just putting the imgur link in hoping you will click it.

 

 

 

 

 

Tbh I agree. 

Gauss is very good, but you can definitely feel "off" when you try to use his speed in open worlds due to how slow it it actually is. 

A buff would not make him harder to control, so I see no reason why he shouldn't be buffed.

[Almxce]

14 hours ago, SiriSnugglebottoms said:

While I wouldn't object to mach rush being faster than it is I disagree with your methodology. This is not mathematical proof that it needs a buff. You can't just look at a single aspect of an ability, compare that to the same aspect of another ability and declare that the first one needs a buff. It's the same thing as looking at two weapons and only measuring the burst dps and concluding that the one with the higher burst dps is the better weapon and declaring the one with the lower dps needs a buff. There's more things that affect the power level than that.

Mach Rush is much better than Reave for very short burst movement, particularly in the air in order to make hairpin turns and change direction in a way most other frames can't.
Mach Rush has favourable interactions with Gauss' kit

Reave has a significant wind-up
The wind-up can be removed during Danse but it means you can't use it while airborne. Navigating around ramps is generally a pain.

They have different augments
They have different costs, which I realise you essentially brushed aside because "this is about speed totals", which kind of feels like admitting that you don't care about actual ability balance. Not because energy cost is necessarily super relevant, but because you're saying you don't care about anything but the speed but that's not how a comparison between abilities works.

At the end of the day the test for an ability should be "Does this ability have a place in the kit, and is it effective enough at what it can do to see reasonably frequent use?". The answer for Mach Rush is yes and yes, and that's why it doesn't need a speed buff. Again, I wouldn't object to it, but I think you've gone about arguing for it in a really bad way.

(and if it feels of relevance Gauss is my 8th most used frame at 3%. Rev and Rev Prime are 21st and 22nd at 0.8 and 0.7 respectively.)

Yeah, I'm in agreement with this. I'm definitely not opposed to Gauss's speed being buffed but at the same time the argument seems to be about speed in open world which the majority of the game isn't based around either.  There's also the fact that Gauss isn't the stereotype of a speedster e.g. The Flash/Quicksilver (run at sustained high speeds with excellent control), Gauss is a speedster but has to be looked at like a missile/torpedo, high speed but he's there to crash into stuff explosively and wreck shop - he's framed as such in his leverian. 

[Grav_Starstrider]

8 hours ago, SiriSnugglebottoms said:

That's my point. Flavour is a valid argument and the math argument is very poor by comparison.

DE cares about hard numbers and math and statistics. It's mathematical evidence that its worse, to support the flavour/feeling argument.

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Tbh I agree. 

Gauss is very good, but you can definitely feel "off" when you try to use his speed in open worlds due to how slow it it actually is. 

A buff would not make him harder to control, so I see no reason why he shouldn't be buffed.

On another note, while I normally am a proponent of things being consistent in this game, such as disliking how there's separate Atmospheric vs Space stats for Archweapons, it really does feel like the Open World maps call for perhaps faster sprint speed and mobility boosts, and things like a large default enemy/loot radar added to whatever the player's range is. Maybe improvements to range and duration too. idk, that's another topic in general. The problem we're discussing is definitely Gauss's relative lack of actual speed that we can feel, even if the ability looks fast.

[SiriSnugglebottoms]

52 minutes ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

DE cares about hard numbers and math and statistics. It's mathematical evidence that its worse, to support the flavour/feeling argument.

No, it's not. It is mathematical evidence that it is worse at a specific thing, which is irrelevant for abilities because they are not only a specific thing that operate in a vacuum.

Miasma has mathematically less damage potential than Catalyze, therefore we need to buff Miasma.

???

[Grav_Starstrider]

3 hours ago, SiriSnugglebottoms said:

No, it's not. It is mathematical evidence that it is worse at a specific thing, which is irrelevant for abilities.

Miasma has mathematically less damage potential than Catalyze, therefore we need to buff Miasma.

???

Bruh

Fine. You're right. It's only mathematical proof that it's worse for traversal specifically. And considering Traversal is the thing that you think of when you see the Warframe whose animation default is a sprinter's pose, whose 1st ability is composed of two words that imply extremely fast movement, and whose 4th ability when googled returns a movie that revolves around determining the fastest racer in the universe, you'd think that they'd be the best at it.

So, mathematical proof that he's nowhere near the best at it, and in fact can be beaten by anyone that subsumes Reave, is in my opinion, also proof that he should just get buffed to be faster, whether at base, or via the scaling you get when investing in speed. Or by making Redline also actually increase speed, so you have the options of running one or the other based on your need/preference/desire, or BOTH to go ludicrously fast.

No one Warframe is supposed to be the undisputed best at damage output, it's a hack and slash and shooting game. Different frames are better at that in different ways, but are supposed to be more or less equal in their own way, if they're meant to be a very damage-centric/capable Warframe.

This is different. Not even Volt's gimmick is supposed to be that he's fast, it's just 1 ability out of 4 that are all revolving around his electrical theme. Revenant isn't even supposed to be all that fast according to his theme, he's supposed to be something of a vampire crossed with a Sentient (or anti-sentient), and having an ability to move around is just one part of being a vampire.

Gauss. Is the "never stop moving" Warframe. The speedy Warframe. 1st and 4th are Speed-based abilities, and the utilization and efficacy of his 2 and 3 contribute and/or scale off of the speed abilities. He is supposed to be the best in the air. The same way Zephyr and Titania are supposed to be the two fliers (main themes of Air and Fairy respectively).

Gauss. Should be. The FASTEST. It feels fundamentally absurd for him to be anything less.

I personally like the idea of having a fun speedy option on any Warframe, so I'd prefer buffing Gauss to nerfing Reave (whether baseline, or only when subsumed), but the examples you just gave, of Saryn and Lavos? Lavos is capped by the cooldown system, SARYN is a monster with theoretically infinitely scaling damage potential via Spores, whose Miasma arguably is meant more to only exacerbates and support that by ensuring that they continue spreading instead of fizzling, and increases the damage they do. But my point being, if anything for the longest time I've thought Saryn needed a nerf to begin with, so imo that's a bad option, at least to debate with me on. It doesn't prove your point, it's very apples to oranges in intent. Whereas Reave and Mach Rush are both movement abilities first and foremost, arguably. Especially since they're in the top 5 of movement abilities, I'm guessing.

[cute_moth.npc]

It seems fair that he is not the fastest honestly, the ones faster than him don't compete in other areas. Built in tanking, speed, cc, free energy, fire rate boosts, he basically has it all ^^;

Would you take a nerf to his overall status as one of the most powerful jack of all trades Warframes in exchange for more speed in order to be the fastest Warframe in the entire game without completely overshadowing everyone else and it just turning into a Wukong 2.0 situation? He is one of the more powerful Warframes in game already.

[shut]

On 2022-11-11 at 5:42 AM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

would I like him to be faster? sure, but I'd also not like his 1 to become totally useless outside of open maps and specific rooms: as it is, it's much more controllable.

I mean, even if his proposed new max speed would be difficult to control, an easy solution to this would just be to have Gauss rapidly accelerate to this new max speed. This way it's still perfectly controllable in short bursts (i.e. most indoor applications), but Gauss will also be able to run long distances at a satisfying speed.
e.g.:

CURRENT:

• Tap 1 to dash 15m
• Hold 1 to dash 15m and instantly reach max speed ^{(10.5*[sprint speed bonus] + 25) m/s}

PROPOSED:

• Tap 1 to dash 15m
• Hold 1 to dash 15m with initial speed ^{(10.5*[sprint speed bonus] + 25) m/s}; accelerate over 1s to maximum speed ^{(20.5*[sprint speed bonus] + 35) m/s)}

Something like that.

 

OT: 

Gauss main here. I love you, @(PSN)CommanderC2121.

[SiriSnugglebottoms]

1 hour ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

Fine. You're right. It's only mathematical proof that it's worse for traversal specifically. And considering Traversal is the thing that you think of when you see the Warframe whose animation default is a sprinter's pose, whose 1st ability is composed of two words that imply extremely fast movement, and whose 4th ability when googled returns a movie that revolves around determining the fastest racer in the universe, you'd think that they'd be the best at it.

So, mathematical proof that he's nowhere near the best at it, and in fact can be beaten by anyone that subsumes Reave, is in my opinion, also proof that he should just get buffed to be faster, whether at base, or via the scaling you get when investing in speed. Or by making Redline also actually increase speed, so you have the options of running one or the other based on your need/preference/desire, or BOTH to go ludicrously fast.

No one Warframe is supposed to be the undisputed best at damage output, it's a hack and slash and shooting game. Different frames are better at that in different ways, but are supposed to be more or less equal in their own way, if they're meant to be a very damage-centric/capable Warframe.

This is different. Not even Volt's gimmick is supposed to be that he's fast, it's just 1 ability out of 4 that are all revolving around his electrical theme. Revenant isn't even supposed to be all that fast according to his theme, he's supposed to be something of a vampire crossed with a Sentient (or anti-sentient), and having an ability to move around is just one part of being a vampire.

Gauss. Is the "never stop moving" Warframe. The speedy Warframe. 1st and 4th are Speed-based abilities, and the utilization and efficacy of his 2 and 3 contribute and/or scale off of the speed abilities. He is supposed to be the best in the air. The same way Zephyr and Titania are supposed to be the two fliers (main themes of Air and Fairy respectively).

Gauss. Should be. The FASTEST. It feels fundamentally absurd for him to be anything less.

I personally like the idea of having a fun speedy option on any Warframe, so I'd prefer buffing Gauss to nerfing Reave (whether baseline, or only when subsumed), but the examples you just gave, of Saryn and Lavos? Lavos is capped by the cooldown system, SARYN is a monster with theoretically infinitely scaling damage potential via Spores, whose Miasma arguably is meant more to only exacerbates and support that by ensuring that they continue spreading instead of fizzling, and increases the damage they do. But my point being, if anything for the longest time I've thought Saryn needed a nerf to begin with, so imo that's a bad option, at least to debate with me on. It doesn't prove your point, it's very apples to oranges in intent. Whereas Reave and Mach Rush are both movement abilities first and foremost, arguably. Especially since they're in the top 5 of movement abilities, I'm guessing.

See, that's an argument I can get behind, but I also agree with what cute_moth.npc is saying, that Gauss is already an incredibly strong frame. Gauss is unbelievably tanky and is a super strong weapon platform, and despite Mach Rush under performing in a test for running from one side of a giant field to the other Gauss is still one of the better speed frames for actual missions because the quick directional change of a quick tap Mach Rush is more useful for being fast in practice than Reave is. If I were to answer Moth's question about being willing to take a nerf to the frame just to make the frame faster in scenarios that, to me, don't seem practically applicable, then I'd have to say no. Your answer may be different,

If we're talking about a pure flavour perspective I'd argue the most reasonable thing to nerf would be the tankiness because being fast and being tanky seem like the two most opposed concepts to me. If someone were to lay forth a solid plan to rebalance abilities based on frame theme I might get behind that, but not this thread.

I can't personally say I've ever even seen anyone Helminth Reave on to become faster, only Garuda Dread Mirror augment memes and other builds that use it for dealing damage. On a personal level I'd probably rather infuse Vial Rush or Infested Mobility than Reave because in practice Reave is clunky on anything but Danse Revenant and how fast Danse Revenant is is mostly determined based on the tileset. I feel the whole thing about it being a Helminth ability is, based on my own experience, a red herring. I even went and searched for builds that use Reave but they were all centered around the damage dealing of it with the exception of an Ivara build that used it to move around faster without breaking stealth. While the Ivara use is clever and I'll probably incorporate it into a build myself it's also only done because of the unique challenges Ivara faces when it comes to stealthed movement.

The fact that you're trying to argue about the damage comparison I just made between Miasma and Catalyze is kind of weird given I only made the comparison in the first place to show that it's absurd to narrow down an entire ability to a single metric and determining buffs and nerfs based on that. If I were to do what OP did then what I would do now is say "Sure, it has a cooldown but that doesn't matter, nor does it matter that Saryn is a monster of a frame, because we're only looking at damage here and I have now provided mathematical proof that Miasma needs to be buffed". I expect you to say it isn't the same thing, but it is
the
exact
same
thing.

Things aren't just magically different because it's about damage now. I'd argue that the suggestion that it's somehow different because you feel that Mach Rush and Reave are abilities with the same primary purpose (Which I'd also contest because Reave is much better at doing damage than making you fast in practical scenarios.) and that Catalyze and Miasma aren't is just incorrect because it's very easy to replace the abilities with other abilities to make the same point even if one agreed that Miasma's primary purpose isn't damage, and I definitely don't. It just deals damage in a different way and is still good enough to kill off the entire room and the next two adjacent rooms in all directions on lower end missions without Spore. Whipclaw's primary function is damage, but it only has a base radius of 5 yards and capped at 10 yards regardless of range% and the explosion requires line of sight to do damage. Maim's primary function is damage, but it has a base range of 18 and neither restriction, therefore please buff Whipclaw so I can mod it to have a 50 yard radius that ignores LoS.

(Also as a complete side note: Catalyze's problem isn't that it has a cooldown. The cooldown is largely irrelevant unless it's a super low density map. A quick cast of Ophidian Bite with the Swift Bite augment and a probe will reset both the cooldown of Catalyze and the abilities used to reset it. You can chuck out a Catalyze every five seconds if there's enemies around to support it. Catalyze's real problem is its vulnerability to Z-axis differences.)

[CollateralKaos]

Honestly I would also like gauss to be faster. Not much though, he should be faster than he is but not *the* fastest. The reason being is that he isn't so much a "fastest" frame as he is the "fastest to start" frame. Unlike all the other options you listed his movement speed is INSTANT. While ofc this means he ends up falling behind typically, if you line him up with most movement options he will outpace them for a good chunk of the start, eventually getting overtaken.

This alone makes him much faster, not in pure movement, but just in the actual missions. Pair that with him being able to take volts buff but not giving one, and the fact that if you look deeper his kit isn't even about speed, its about energy, and suddenly him being slower than other frames doesn't even matter.

Gauss has his own thing, speed is a part of him, but his actual kit is much more than that. Crowd control, survivability, weapon buffs, and one of the strongest nukes in the entire game. Gauss is wonderful as he is and has more uses than just going fast so I think that he should get buffed a bit, but he doesn't NEED anything to be the frame he is.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

On 2022-11-11 at 2:42 AM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

anyone who actually has a sprint race on a long, straight tile (the long double bridge on Jupiter is ideal) using Gauss and Volt or any other frame with a mobility skill knows that Gauss isn't that fast, they use camera tricks to give a false sense of speed during Mach Rush. Hell, I think even Yareli's Merulina is faster if you can avoid crashing it. a lot of it is also down to how Mach Rush scales off of Sprint Speed, not Power Strength like Volt's Speed.

chances are Gauss was made the way he is to be more controllable, but that seems counterintuitive when Mach Rush is actually most effective in combat when you crash into walls, especially with the Augment. if he was as fast as he is *supposed* to be, there's no way on gods earth you'd be able to control him on normal tilesets and Mach Rush would only be usable for the wall slam/Augment, though he'd still be fully viable for Open Worlds where he could zip between bounty objectives as fast as Zephyr or Nova.

would I like him to be faster? sure, but I'd also not like his 1 to become totally useless outside of open maps and specific rooms: as it is, it's much more controllable.

While that's perfectly understandable, you can do both and still keep the ability controllable. Honestly Volt is still faster and that weirds me out when his buff affects everyone and Gauss' only affects himself. 

Just make Gauss have a speed build-up. So he starts off a bit slower, and then starts to accelerate. If you don't want him to move that fast, just don't keep holding down the button, tap it instead. Like an actual vehicle, he'd take a bit to get to max speed, but then he'd eventually be outpacing everyone on foot.

Honestly Sprint Speed should also probably give a multiplier to an object Gauss hits, kind of like Zephyr with her height affecting Tailwind. It still weirds me out that I can hit a Grineer with what is essentially a sports car and he just gets knocked over instead of being A-Train'd.

[CollateralKaos]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

Just make Gauss have a speed build-up. So he starts off a bit slower, and then starts to accelerate

This is exactly what I would hate however, gauss is faster than the other options in practice because he can instantly get to max speed. Removing that just isn't right, it would shatter one of the few things his speed has. I think that instead making redline give a buff to his speed if it is activated, especially make it dependent upon the actual % redline is at. Doubling your speed when redline is maxed out would be fantastic and let him keep his control + current benefits.

 

Either way, gauss is so much more than speed so I pains me that all people compare him with is other peoples speed. A frame able to do pretty much everything, from nuking level cap enemies rather easily and giving massive weapon buffs too insane survivability and overall utility, and all he gets is his speed measured.

[Galuf]

It is logical than a maxed out Reave should be always better imho in terms of speed, not only it is not a "1" ability but on top of it, maximizing the effect of the spell(sprint speed + duration) takes lots of mod slots and is hinders your ability to us it offensively somehow.

Imho mach rush is a fair 1 ability, it's meme-ish but once upon a time Gauss was a new experience warframe and running FaF for low cost was its selling point. Gauss place in the metagame is not due to its 1 either, it's the rest of its kit that really puts it in a good spot. If you're subsumming something it will definitely be on the 1 ^^'.

In the other hand, I can see definitely reave as a legitimate movement tool as you cannot move freely while ultimating on rev however parkour has always been master race and running fast in a straight line has never been that valuable as it's crap in most tilesets and absolutely irrelevant in "open world".

[CollateralKaos]

17 minutes ago, Galuf said:

step 1: slot mobilize

step 2: try to bullet jump forward

step 3: understand that parkour is more versatile, strictly better in 90% of the tilesets

step 4: replace mach rush with infested mobility

If you are not able to use mach rush to go far faster than any type of parkour then you are either severely failing at the ability or you should take another look. The ability is much faster than parkour and incredibly good at most terrain (hell just bullet jump up to the next level and reuse) on top of just being a pretty much required part of his kit. The CC, augment, and battery charging all make it much more useful than infested mobility. The instant acceleration makes it more effective than any other example of a speed ability, especially when considering that you can subsume over TS in most speed requiring circumstances for infested mobility. It is neither a meme nor even remotely close to useless, stating such is just a lack of capability at the ability fixing your point of view.

Funny, but entirely false.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

1 hour ago, CollateralKaos said:

This is exactly what I would hate however, gauss is faster than the other options in practice because he can instantly get to max speed. Removing that just isn't right, it would shatter one of the few things his speed has. I think that instead making redline give a buff to his speed if it is activated, especially make it dependent upon the actual % redline is at. Doubling your speed when redline is maxed out would be fantastic and let him keep his control + current benefits.

 

Either way, gauss is so much more than speed so I pains me that all people compare him with is other peoples speed. A frame able to do pretty much everything, from nuking level cap enemies rather easily and giving massive weapon buffs too insane survivability and overall utility, and all he gets is his speed measured.

Well for me, that's because that's the only thing I feel like he really could benefit from a change. His damage, survivability, CC and efficiency are all top notch. 

His speed is literally the only thing I would buff in comparison, just because he's portrayed as extremely fast, and ... isn't. You can also tie it to Redline, but it's not really important where it goes, it's just odd that he's the slowest speed Warframe over Wukong, Hydroid or Revenant for crying out loud when he's designed around stuff like a jet engine.

[Galuf]

Il y a 3 heures, CollateralKaos a dit :

If you are not able to use mach rush to go far faster than any type of parkour then you are either severely failing at the ability or you should take another look. The ability is much faster than parkour and incredibly good at most terrain (hell just bullet jump up to the next level and reuse) on top of just being a pretty much required part of his kit. The CC, augment, and battery charging all make it much more useful than infested mobility. The instant acceleration makes it more effective than any other example of a speed ability, especially when considering that you can subsume over TS in most speed requiring circumstances for infested mobility. It is neither a meme nor even remotely close to useless, stating such is just a lack of capability at the ability fixing your point of view.

Funny, but entirely false.

Just do a tile by tile comparison, it doesn't make anysense to have this much forward moment in a vast majority of them... A well executed bullet jump gives you instant acceleration in the direction of your choice and full control of what you're actually doing + it works on absolutely every frame, it's universal and it's skill based, ofc in a straightline mach rush will be faster. I always end up with that kind of passive agressive bs since years on this topic but heck, even experience doesn't lie, I've never seen a Gauss arriving #1 at the extraction point in a mission and I played this game a lot. Maybe it is the conspiracy of the hidden god frame perfect gauss community. However I've seen plenty of titania and wukong players absolutely mad dashing everything for hours, those are pretty solid mobility spells, and it's not just the quickness, it's the ability to fully control your character and take optimal routes. Generally it is the better player or the one who invested in parkour boosts(mod, arcanes, subsume, ...) who gets first to the finish line, you can slot any sprint boost as you want, it doesn't change much, you won't save much dashing in your straight line, you're likely to actually loose time derping on a crate and your eyes will get tired.

[LordOfThePovos]

considering how Gauss is the only warframe that can run on water/orb valis coolant I figured that he would be the fastest in the game (at least when running in a straight line) and that the only warframe close to his speed would be volt(who should only be able to be faster when corners are involved) but I think even if he isn't technically the fastest he feels fast with those speed lines and the subtle zoom-out and the added controllability by not being too fast is still nice since like someone said earlier in open spaces being fast is fine but in corridors and tight corners it is a nightmare. Maybe if his speed could be scaled off of power strength it would be a nice change but I don't really mind if he stays as he is. He feels cool when he runs so that is enough for me (:

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

22 hours ago, CollateralKaos said:

Either way, gauss is so much more than speed so I pains me that all people compare him with is other peoples speed. A frame able to do pretty much everything, from nuking level cap enemies rather easily and giving massive weapon buffs too insane survivability and overall utility, and all he gets is his speed measured.

To be fair, his selling point was speed

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

On 2022-11-12 at 5:19 PM, shut said:

I mean, even if his proposed new max speed would be difficult to control, an easy solution to this would just be to have Gauss rapidly accelerate to this new max speed. This way it's still perfectly controllable in short bursts (i.e. most indoor applications), but Gauss will also be able to run long distances at a satisfying speed.
e.g.:

CURRENT:

• Tap 1 to dash 15m
• Hold 1 to dash 15m and instantly reach max speed ^{(10.5*[1+sprint speed bonus] + [1+movement speed bonus] + 14.5) m/s}

PROPOSED:

• Tap 1 to dash 15m
• Hold 1 to dash 15m with initial speed ^{(10.5*[1+sprint speed bonus] + [1+movement speed bonus] + 14.5) m/s}; accelerate over 1s to maximum speed ^{(20.5*[1+sprint speed bonus] + [1+movement speed bonus] + 35) m/s)}

Something like that.

 

OT: 

Gauss main here. I love you, @(PSN)CommanderC2121.

Side note, your proposed calculation even with acceleration might be too fast for normal missions. Before sprint speed he’d be at 55ish m/s, which equivalent to a speed gauss WITH infested mobility rn. After multipliers it def would be too unwieldy imo

[shut]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Side note, your proposed calculation even with acceleration might be too fast for normal missions. Before sprint speed he’d be at 55ish m/s, which equivalent to a speed gauss WITH infested mobility rn. After multipliers it def would be too unwieldy imo

Ah, that's my mistake-- I meant to use the values you proposed in the OP, but I had misunderstood the formula. Brb fixing 😆