Now that old bugs are getting fixed Soon, can we add some stuff to Conclave for a change?

[traybong111]

Please put Harrow Prime back in Conclave. I brought him there immediately after buying his Prime Access and played for all of one single match. He was fine, hell if anything stock Harrow probably needs a slight buff to his eHP. Anyway put my golden boi back in there he did nothing wrong. 

Put Ember back in Conclave. Disable all her abilities if you have to. DE I promise you, I've been whining about Ember non-stop since 2013 but with this one simple trick you can shut me up forever. You can keep her unlimited 2 drain, you can keep her nonsensical counter-synergistic heat gauge, you can keep her so-called augments you squirted out at the last minute of a rework, you can keep this decade long failure of a fire mage frame--if she's playable in Conclave I will shut up forever. 

Please put Astilla, Baza, Pandero, Panthera, Scourge, Strun, Tenora and Zhuge Primes in Conclave. I know you guys already have the pvp stats for most if not all the Prime guns.

(Yes I know it's the 4th godsdamned Strun. Yes I know it'll be busted with the new holster mods effects. But for some reason the universe keeps turning Conclave shotguns into slug snipers so who am I to fight its divine will.)

Please put Magnus Prime in Conclave. Please make sure Akmagnus Prime arrives Soon and that it also makes it into Conclave. 

I'm glad bugs are getting fixed and that the most egregiously bugged weapons are getting removed. But the best course of action still would have been to nerf and fix them and let them stay in. I'm not happy that every time Conclave gets an update there's always things getting removed from there. Sure, practically speaking Karyst Prime is literally just another dagger; there's no reason to use it over any other dagger but there's no reason to remove it either. I don't care that we already have 4 different Bratons in Conclave, I still want more assault rifles in because Aeolak is a fun weapon and I'd like to use it in all the modes I enjoy. 

[Tyreaus]

Only if said Conclave items become globally accessible, i.e. no longer requiring long crafting wait times or PvE farming to use in Conclave.

[(PSN)IdoThea]

We forgot the CONCLAVE 

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

14 hours ago, (PSN)IdoThea said:

We forgot the CONCLAVE 

We didn't forget the conclave.  You did though.  

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

On 2022-11-24 at 7:12 PM, Tyreaus said:

Only if said Conclave items become globally accessible, i.e. no longer requiring long crafting wait times or PvE farming to use in Conclave.

That would give us nothing then as everything is added through pve. I understand your viewpoint and it would be cool to not have to play pve to get pvp stuff. However even if it is added through pve i still would like the new weapons and warframes balanced and added in. Otherwise we'll most likely get nothing.  

[Tyreaus]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GameGhost123 said:

That would give us nothing then as everything is added through pve. I understand your viewpoint and it would be cool to not have to play pve to get pvp stuff. However even if it is added through pve i still would like the new weapons and warframes balanced and added in. Otherwise we'll most likely get nothing.  

Then we get nothing.

Having to play PvE to get PvP equipment is already a problem. Flip PvP and PvE around in that sentence and just about everyone would agree.

If they can't sort out how to fix that—dropping modding would make it much easier, FWIW—they ought to, at least, not make it worse.

[(PSN)IdoThea]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)GameGhost123 said:

We didn't forget the conclave.  You did though.  

I tried to get in conclave but there wasn't anyone in.

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

13 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Then we get nothing.

I'd rather have more gear in conclave.  Even if i have to play pve which i dislike alot. Again I understand what you're thinking but still I want more gear in conclave.  

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

11 hours ago, (PSN)IdoThea said:

I tried to get in conclave but there wasn't anyone in.

Join conclave discord.  Conclave on ps4 might not be the most active but crossplay is happening soon. I know without a doubt that there's active conclave players on ps4 because i know them personally and i have a ps4 and play with them sometimes.  Think of it like your favorite mmo that is losing activity and you have to queue for a dungeon for awhile or try again at a different time. Knowing the active players makes it easier to play with them as well. So i still recommend joining conclave discord. 

[Tachmag]

Also Inaros Prime. He was already balanced for Conclave and then got removed.

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

1 hour ago, Tachmag said:

Also Inaros Prime. He was already balanced for Conclave and then got removed.

Yea I was thinking of that too

[Triplinster]

22 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Then we get nothing.

Having to play PvE to get PvP equipment is already a problem. Flip PvP and PvE around in that sentence and just about everyone would agree.

If they can't sort out how to fix that—dropping modding would make it much easier, FWIW—they ought to, at least, not make it worse.

Regarding that, just a thought I had,
Would be nice to have a set of weapons/frames unlocked in PvP for everyone and be able to unlock other weapons for PvP only like say, Prime Vectis or Ambassador (if it gets added in PvP at some point). If players like the feel of the weapon and would like to unlock it globally, they get a plat discount on the the weapon (market purchase-able weapons only) after getting a certain number of kills or challenges with it.

Would be best if everything was unlocked in PvP, but that's not going to happen in any game.

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

7 hours ago, Triplinster said:

Would be best if everything was unlocked in PvP, but that's not going to happen in any game.

Ye

[Tyreaus]

15 hours ago, Triplinster said:

Regarding that, just a thought I had,
Would be nice to have a set of weapons/frames unlocked in PvP for everyone and be able to unlock other weapons for PvP only like say, Prime Vectis or Ambassador (if it gets added in PvP at some point). If players like the feel of the weapon and would like to unlock it globally, they get a plat discount on the the weapon (market purchase-able weapons only) after getting a certain number of kills or challenges with it.

Would be best if everything was unlocked in PvP, but that's not going to happen in any game.

It is certainly possible to unlock equipment via PvP itself and monetize that process. The crux of the problem is needing to play PvE to get PvP equipment. It doesn't mean everything has to be unlocked from step 1, just that the unlocking process ought not to escape the Conclave. _{Other than paying money, of course.}

That said, if any sort of imbalance comes to light, monetizing an unlock process runs the risk of that introducing a pay-to-win system, faux or otherwise. Conclave balance may be done well, but with various PvE bleed-overs, it's a volatile, fickle thing.

An unlock system also wants much better transparency, e.g. kill cams or detailed damage recaps. As it stands, the best way to understand how we lose is to copy what an opponent uses _{as best we can—fricking modding} and discover how that works. Having to wait or grind to do so neuters the efficacy of such a process. See threads around this forum discussing imbalance, even though most long-term players agree it's (generally, bugs-excepted) well-balanced.

I'm curious, though, why "everything unlocked in PvP" couldn't or wouldn't happen for Warframe. Unless it's just a matter of balancing all of the hundreds of weapons for Conclave, in which case, yeah, makes sense.

[traybong111]

I really appreciate Conclave fixes coming with Lua's Prey. I know anybody would have been nervous talking about Conclave in front of PvE hivemind and Rebecca will always have my respect for that. 

That said, there was no need to remove Tatsu and Tatsu Prime. Sure they don't have Conclave stances, but basic combos worked and they weren't overpowered in any way. Not even their usual passives worked in Conclave iirc. I really don't understand how they ended up on the radar in the first place. 

There was no need for Zenith to be removed either. Its alt fire may be slightly overtuned--especially after shieldgate is gone--but a nerf to its damage or ammo efficiency would have been the simple fix to let such a unique gun stay in Conclave. 

Again I appreciate the fixes, I really do. But I also wish so many of the "fixes" weren't removing more things and instead were actually nerfing/fixing problematic gears. (pls buff stock Akvasto why is it so bad) Reducing a number in a spreadsheet cannot be that significantly time-consuming or resource-draining than pvpenable switch. 

[Tyreaus]

51 minutes ago, traybong111 said:

That said, there was no need to remove Tatsu and Tatsu Prime. Sure they don't have Conclave stances, but basic combos worked and they weren't overpowered in any way. Not even their usual passives worked in Conclave iirc. I really don't understand how they ended up on the radar in the first place. 

There was no need for Zenith to be removed either. Its alt fire may be slightly overtuned--especially after shieldgate is gone--but a nerf to its damage or ammo efficiency would have been the simple fix to let such a unique gun stay in Conclave. 

Again I appreciate the fixes, I really do. But I also wish so many of the "fixes" weren't removing more things and instead were actually nerfing/fixing problematic gears. (pls buff stock Akvasto why is it so bad) Reducing a number in a spreadsheet cannot be that significantly time-consuming or resource-draining than pvpenable switch. 

Important to remember too that removal isn't permanent. It's also likely caused by a simple development process: "if it's broke in Conclave, take it out".

Because Conclave isn't a priority, it could take time to hash out something like a stance for the Tatsu series. That may mean some updates contain bits and pieces toward that stance, maybe some testing to mark where things are at. And we likely don't want those incomplete, possibly imbalanced, test stances to leak, right? Don't want the Tatsu to become Telos Boltace Mk II because the stance ended up overtuned part-way through development.

There's also the point of deciding how to fix things. Even you mention fixing Zenith with nerfs to damage or ammo efficiency. Someone, or some team, has to hash out which to do, if not some third option. In the interim, we probably don't want it just sitting there in whatever problematic state its in. We learned that lesson the hard way with Telos Boltace and the like.

[traybong111]

On 2022-11-27 at 12:54 PM, Tyreaus said:

It is certainly possible to unlock equipment via PvP itself and monetize that process. The crux of the problem is needing to play PvE to get PvP equipment. It doesn't mean everything has to be unlocked from step 1, just that the unlocking process ought not to escape the Conclave. _{Other than paying money, of course.}

That said, if any sort of imbalance comes to light, monetizing an unlock process runs the risk of that introducing a pay-to-win system, faux or otherwise. Conclave balance may be done well, but with various PvE bleed-overs, it's a volatile, fickle thing.

An unlock system also wants much better transparency, e.g. kill cams or detailed damage recaps. As it stands, the best way to understand how we lose is to copy what an opponent uses _{as best we can—fricking modding} and discover how that works. Having to wait or grind to do so neuters the efficacy of such a process. See threads around this forum discussing imbalance, even though most long-term players agree it's (generally, bugs-excepted) well-balanced.

I'm curious, though, why "everything unlocked in PvP" couldn't or wouldn't happen for Warframe. Unless it's just a matter of balancing all of the hundreds of weapons for Conclave, in which case, yeah, makes sense.

I agree with the gist of your idea, but yeah. With PvE bleed-overs being unpredictable and taking some games' entire lifespan to get fixed--shieldgate was in for, what, 2.5 years? Telos Boltace was bugged for just as long if not more?--it's safe to say I have no confidence that DE has the attention span needed for Conclave gear unlocks. Though I guess adding a monetization layer to Conclave might incentivize to have, I dunno, a single person or two assigned to monitor it? It's a chicken or egg kind of situation.

100% agreed on your point on transparency and not just in relation to adding economic systems to Conclave. I've been saying Warframe needs a better profile/stat tracking for a long time and that applies even more to Conclave. Alecaframe afaik has more detailed tracking but it's still a trading/inventory-focused app. 

All that said we can already obtain fully built Excal/Mag/Volt from Conclave and nobody complains about that (not that the usual suspects would even know about them in the first place.) Adding some non-prime/basic gears to Conclave standing wouldn't be outrageous. But to be completely honest I want DE to take baby steps first, like weapon rentals & fixed loadout modes that have been proposed here before. If we're to have gear unlocks through Conclave it should come first with good, varied environments to test gears out.