Limbo and the players who use him are the absolute worst.

[FBalfour]

To drive the point home: If you make a meme about any other frame, the mains of that frame will laugh, even if it's disparaging. If you make a meme about how you're tired of your experiences with Limbo, you get dozens of messages insulting you, hating on you, etc. because they can't handle being asked to be considerate of those around them.

This is why we include the "And the players who use him."

You'll get hundreds of positive reactions, well over 90%, but every single reply will be an insult, or them talking down to you.

It's like dealing with Rick and Morty fans, honestly

[AegidiusF]

Le 27/02/2023 à 06:48, FBalfour a dit :

Limbo's entire basekit is set around being disruptive to their own team and running solo. If someone wants to play Limbo solo, more power to them, but they render everyone else's fun non-existent.

Limbo's base kit was designed to protect Limbo's team mates from taking damage, to regen their Energy and to regen their HP (Augment). This is not what I call being disruptive.

I understand that some players have had problems with disruptive players using Limbo, but Limbo is very far from removing the fun from the game. My own experience (I'm not saying that it's the same for everybody) is thet no Limbo (even the disruptive players using Limbo) can kill your fun or prevent you from playing : there is always a way to continue playing while ignoring the disruptive player using Limbo.

Le 27/02/2023 à 06:48, FBalfour a dit :

Again; Condemn on anyone else is better CC, and here's why:
Limbo's kit is focused on helping himself, and himself alone. Yes, even with the heal augment. Because the heal augment takes allies away from where they are useful
Toss condemn on literally anyone else and it amplifies their team-skills. On Limbo? Only self. Because Limbo is a selfish frame.

Nope. On the contrary. Condemn is a nice CC, but only benefits the team with the Augment and in synergy with two other abilities, while Limbo's Banish in itself protects the team from taking damage, let's them use their warframe abilities (almost all warframe abilities pass through the Rift) and regenerates their Energy. The Augment, Rift Haven, adds HP regen to the base Energy regen, regenerating all HP in 4 seconds (just like Magus Repair). And everybody can exit the Rift by doing a simple dodge.

Limbo is not selfish at all, but one of the better defensive warframes in the game.

Le 27/02/2023 à 06:48, FBalfour a dit :

Already good at CC? I fail to see it. Only Cataclysm and Stasis, which (whoops!) only really benefit Limbo. His 1 affects 1 target per cast. Harrow is significantly better. An entire crowd for a cast, plus with Tribunal allows allies to proc Harrow's other team-based abilities.

Harrow and Limbo are very different frames. Both can be used as support, but Harrow CC is limited to an area in front of him and has a much mower durating than Limbo's stasis. Limbo's abilities to CC an entire crowd is Cataclysm+Stasis, as you said, but everybody on the squad will benefit from it : what prevents the squad from killing the paralysed mobs ? Nothing. And, most of all, all limitations imposed to the squad are also imposed to Limbo himself, so if it benefits Limbo, it also benefits everybody, if it doesn't benefit's the squad, it benefits nobody, bot even Limbo ; but it cannot benefit Limbo and not the squad.

Yes, Tribunal is a very nice Augment mod, but it is just a buff to Penance and Thurible, no specific effect added and no effect at all without these other two abilities. Most of the time, a well builded Harrow doesn't even need this Augment.

I don't think these abilities can really be compared, but anyway, I really can't see why Limbo Cataclysm+Stasis don't benefit the whole squad. A paralysed mob is paralysed for everybody else and can be killed by any squad member.

Le 27/02/2023 à 06:48, FBalfour a dit :

Limbo needs to be completely re-worked.

Limbo is awesome and I don"t think he need a complete rework. Somme buffs would be nice, but not a complete rework.

Le 27/02/2023 à 06:48, FBalfour a dit :

As previously mentioned earlier in this thread the moment a Limbo joins a lobby, people think of leaving.

Most of the time, when I see people leaving a squad, it's because you haven't choose the relic they wanted...

Le 27/02/2023 à 06:48, FBalfour a dit :

Telling people "You can always roll out of the rift" sounds more like a wannabe supervillain trying to find the loophole that makes their dastardly deeds technically legal than a gentle reminder of "Hey, I know this can be frustrating, so I'm here for you to help you out. We've got this."

It's better than doing a backflip to get rid of Volt's speed.

Giving the players a way to exit the Rift is necessary to let them have a control over the duration of protection and Energy+HP regen they need. It's an essential part of the mechanics of the Rift.

In my opinion, the greatest problem with Limbo is that many players don't know how to play him. Last year, at least I think it was last year, Rebecca made a Livestream to teach how to play Limbo ! Very funny, but necessary.

[FBalfour]

You bring up a major point: Cataclysm and stasis *should* help the rest of the team, but unfortunately there's a glitch that affects myself and most of the people I talk to where Cataclysm will also shut down abilities as though it was a nullifier bubble. It's very frustrating, and I do have a simple fix that I think everyone would be happy with:

Add "Limbo and all allies within affinity range can affect either plane as though they were on that plane"
This would make the banish augment less annoying for people, cataclysm would then be something other than dragging a mission out unnecessarily as you can now shoot through it, while allowing allies the benefits of being inside the rift. You would then be able to interact with your target, etc.

As to Volt: Everyone brings him up as a whataboutism, but he's not the topic right now. While yes, I agree that backflipping to drop speed is annoying, you can still function with the speed "buff," but unless you take the time out of being effective to roll, Banish is more of a detriment at this point in time.

Cataclysm is what annoys the majority of us, as we have the pew pews, let us use the pew pews.

The fact that a Dev had to have a stream to teach people how to use a frame should be enough evidence that Limbo needs tweaking. Right now, he's way too attractive for trolls, and this community is known for being wholesome. If tweaking a frame keeps it that way, I say go for it

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 4 heures, FBalfour a dit :

but unfortunately there's a glitch that affects myself and most of the people I talk to where Cataclysm will also shut down abilities as though it was a nullifier bubble.

I never experienced this glitch and I hope this will get fixed as soon as possible, but a glitch asks for a fix, not for a warframe's rework.

Il y a 4 heures, FBalfour a dit :

Add "Limbo and all allies within affinity range can affect either plane as though they were on that plane"
This would make the banish augment less annoying for people, cataclysm would then be something other than dragging a mission out unnecessarily as you can now shoot through it, while allowing allies the benefits of being inside the rift. You would then be able to interact with your target, etc.

I don't really understand, sorry. You can go through planes by just passing through Cataclysm limit. And they've made the Operator never be inside the Rift to let the Operator interact with anything that is inside the Rift as if it wasn't inside it.

Il y a 4 heures, FBalfour a dit :

As to Volt: Everyone brings him up as a whataboutism, but he's not the topic right now.

If he has some commom problems as Limbo, yes, he is. The point is that there are many other frames that can be as disruptive as Limbo : Volt, Saryn, Valkyr, Loki, Wisp, Frost... If Limbo deserves a complete rework for being disruptive, all these frames also deserves the same. And this is perfectly on topic.

Il y a 4 heures, FBalfour a dit :

Cataclysm is what annoys the majority of us, as we have the pew pews, let us use the pew pews.

You can still use it : if there are enemies inside, go inside and use it (same situation as with a Frost Snow Globe), if there are enemies outside, go outside and use your pew pew. Nobedy is preventing you from using it : you can still move.

Il y a 4 heures, FBalfour a dit :

The fact that a Dev had to have a stream to teach people how to use a frame should be enough evidence that Limbo needs tweaking.

That's the evidence that there is a great lack of information about some abilities. Limbo is very affected by this, but he is not the only one.

There was a very funny bug report opened earlier this year : somebody reported screen color changes and no more making any damage to enemies after dodging with Limbo...

There are many players that ignore how Mirage's Eclipse work and that the values shown on the screen are not the real values and that it doesn't offer any damage reduction against Toxin damage...

Il y a 4 heures, FBalfour a dit :

Right now, he's way too attractive for trolls

This is true, but he is not the only one.

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

That's the evidence that there is a great lack of information about some abilities. Limbo is very affected by this, but he is not the only one.

There was a very funny bug report opened earlier this year : somebody reported screen color changes and no more making any damage to enemies after dodging with Limbo...

There are many players that ignore how Mirage's Eclipse work and that the values shown on the screen are not the real values and that it doesn't offer any damage reduction against Toxin damage...

That's not really comparable.  Yes, this game is mystifyingly abstruse and convoluted.  But a misleading buff % is nowhere near is disruptive or complex as Limbo's kit.  There is no ability more needlessly tangled than Rift Surge.

 

5 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Limbo's base kit was designed to protect Limbo's team mates from taking damage, to regen their Energy and to regen their HP (Augment). This is not what I call being disruptive.

The way it is executed is massively disruptive.  I would amend your statement to this: "Limbo's base kit was designed to protect Limbo's teammates from taking damage from some sources and to regen their energy at the cost of being able to predictably use their own weapons unless they are in a certain area with a constantly changing perimeter or they happen to be marked (if their target is marked) or unmarked (if their target is unmarked) by Limbo.  Costs also include the ability to predictably pick up loot and interact with other objects."  If that seems too wordy, it's because it has to be.  There's no succinct way to accurately convey what Limbo does.  There are too many restrictions and exceptions.

 

If all Limbo did was shield his allies and give them energy, no one would be complaining about him.  The way he goes about providing allies with dubious protection and largely negligible energy regeneration comes at far too massive a cost.  There's a reason I shudder whenever a Limbo joins my game.  Even a considerate Limbo is a hindrance anywhere but the NW Index challenge.

[EinheriarJudith]

7 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

If all Limbo did was shield his allies and give them energy, no one would be complaining about him.  The way he goes about providing allies with dubious protection and largely negligible energy regeneration comes at far too massive a cost.  There's a reason I shudder whenever a Limbo joins my game.  Even a considerate Limbo is a hindrance anywhere but the NW Index challenge.

what i find funny is people telling others how to build limbo to not be disruptive and then call others who dont bad limbos. WHY IS THIS EVEN SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS?

if you have to neuter a build just so you don't upset others, it needs to be changed. This one frame had more updates to lessen (not remove) his intrusive gameplay mechanics than ANY other frame in this game.

we all remember the freezing bullets? the cant interact with consoles because of being banished? and now my most favorite, forcing people into operator (notably in arbitration) just to do the things they cant because of being constantly confined to the rift.

whatever ego that is preventing DE from doing something about limbo, they need to drop it.

[sunderthefirmament]

5 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

if you have to neuter a build just so you don't upset others, it needs to be changed.

Yep.  DE has installed fail-safes in other areas to prevent trolling.  When Protea first launched, people could intentionally or unintentionally make the Granum Void segments stretch into eternity, trapping other players.  DE fixed that, but it should never have been in the game in the first place.  I don't think their playtesting is robust enough, not just for bugs, but also for abuse.  They need to emulate abusive, trolling players.  Then they need to make changes before release to prevent said abuse and trolling.

 

The game-as-a-service model and extrinsic reward nature of Warframe insures that a lot of trolling isn't really attractive or appealing.  Like why would I steal the mobile defense purse/key thing and hide in a corner?  It's slowing my reward gain too.  But even that doesn't prevent all forms of abuse and griefing.

[(NSW)Humblepuffin]

I think the best change they could make to Limbo without drastically changing his kit is to add “Surged enemies exist in both planes while effected” to Rift Surge or to Rift Torrent. 

This would do a few things. One it would increase the usefulness of rift surge. Two it would give teammates the ability to hit enemies inside cataclysm while outside cataclysm while effected by surge. Third it wouldn’t troll teammates with enemies who have fallen out of cataclysm but were rebanished or effected by the radial banish. Fourth it would untie Limbo from needing to stay in the cataclysm or rift plane when using rift surge. Fifth creates some more nuance to Limbo; do I want to rift surge and have everything surged in both planes?, or no surge to better protect the defense target/teammates in the rift? And finally what I can think of right now it just makes him a little more user friendly for limbo players who are new to him and aren’t necessarily trying to troll but just don’t understand how what they are doing is negatively impacting their team. 
 

I use max range cataclysm with rift surge/torrent quite often while I’m soloing any  stationary defense target and it’s quite effective at avoiding the issues of stasis’d enemies falling in and out of the cataclysm as long as you stay in the cataclysm, and keep rift surge on everyone. That effectiveness really goes away in a group setting tho when missions promote a lot of movement like mirror defense and teammates and yourself are running all over the place, or when teammates don’t realize you can still hit the surged enemies outside from inside. 

Banish should probably be reworked. First thing I did when I got access to Helminth was to trade it out because I very rarely felt it was worth using. I also agree with the idea of needing to bullet jump through rifts created when limbo goes into the rift plane or some other opt in mechanic. I troll myself with those rifts constantly by accidentally walking through them. 

[EinheriarJudith]

@(NSW)Humblepuffin changing rift surge in that manner will not stop the rift from being intrusive. it only solves the issues with rift surge and forces its use if you dont want to get yelled at. it is a bandaid and not a solution. the rifts needs to change at its core. 

35 minutes ago, (NSW)Humblepuffin said:

And finally what I can think of right now it just makes him a little more user friendly for limbo players who are new to him and aren’t necessarily trying to troll but just don’t understand how what they are doing is negatively impacting their team. 

this frame should not be creating this situation from the start. its ok to have frames that have advanced gameplay mechanics that you have to learn in order to be proficient. those mechanics should NOT interfere with other users. 

 

39 minutes ago, (NSW)Humblepuffin said:

I use max range cataclysm with rift surge/torrent quite often while I’m soloing any  stationary defense target and it’s quite effective at avoiding the issues of stasis’d enemies falling in and out of the cataclysm as long as you stay in the cataclysm

the whole point of rift surge is to force outside enemies into the rift (with its radial banish) the moment any of them at cataclysms edge phases out. imo i dont see them phasing out as an issue because this is its intended use with stasis and cataclysm shrinking mechanic.

but that is the issue with this frame. it does not take into account the other players in the squad and their loadout.

[AegidiusF]

Le 03/03/2023 à 23:24, sunderthefirmament a dit :

The way it is executed is massively disruptive.  I would amend your statement to this: "Limbo's base kit was designed to protect Limbo's teammates from taking damage from some sources and to regen their energy at the cost of being able to predictably use their own weapons unless they are in a certain area with a constantly changing perimeter or they happen to be marked (if their target is marked) or unmarked (if their target is unmarked) by Limbo.  Costs also include the ability to predictably pick up loot and interact with other objects."  If that seems too wordy, it's because it has to be.  There's no succinct way to accurately convey what Limbo does.  There are too many restrictions and exceptions.

It's not that bad : perimeter reduces only a bit and even nside you're protected from enemy fire (Stasis) and abilities passes through the Rift.

It's very complex, I agree, but it's not that bad.

Le 03/03/2023 à 23:24, sunderthefirmament a dit :

There's a reason I shudder whenever a Limbo joins my game. 

That's perhaps the reason you don't have good experiences with Limbo : you're excluding the good Limbo players from your game.

[sunderthefirmament]

42 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

That's perhaps the reason you don't have good experiences with Limbo : you're excluding the good Limbo players from your game.

I mostly play with public matchmaking on.  I only ever bother with recruit chat when a new prime drops and I need to organize radshares. Saying I am excluding good Limbo players from my game is erroneous because I don’t control who joins my games most of the time. And honestly, there is no longer such a thing as a good Limbo player. If you’re still playing him after he has steadily lost his relevance, you are making a conscious decision to use a sub-optimal frame that will make other players’ experiences more frustrating. A good player would choose a different frame. 
 

45 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

It's not that bad : perimeter reduces only a bit and even nside you're protected from enemy fire (Stasis) and abilities passes through the Rift.

It's very complex, I agree, but it's not that bad.

It is that bad. And I don’t need an explanation of the rift. The way it works, if I shoot a bramma shot at some frozen enemies at the edge of some random Limbo’s cataclysm, I have no way of knowing whether it will actually land or not. It feels awful to play with a Limbo on the team. 

[AegidiusF]

il y a 30 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

And honestly, there is no longer such a thing as a good Limbo player.

@gamingchair1121 is one of the best Limbo players (and perhaps the best Limbo specialist available) here and he can give a lot of useful advises to anyone that want to become a Limbo lover.

Me too, in a much humble way (I'm mostly a Trinity / Banshee / Nyx player), I'm consider myself as a good Limbo player.

il y a 33 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

Saying I am excluding good Limbo players from my game is erroneous because I don’t control who joins my games most of the time.

That's true, but what you control is your participation on a suqad and quitting it is a way of excluding others. I can understand that you don't do it by pleasure, but as a result of bad experiences in the past. When I said you were excluding the good Limbos, it was more like a funny answer, don't take it so seriously. sorry, if it bothered you.

il y a 35 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

If you’re still playing him after he has steadily lost his relevance,

Limbo never lost it : he is still one of the best defensive frames in the game.

il y a 35 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

you are making a conscious decision to use a sub-optimal frame

Limbo has never benn suboptimal. My decision is very conscious and it's to protect others (mates and objectives) to help to complete the mission the best way as possible.

il y a 37 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

that will make other players’ experiences more frustrating.

Any frame can do this. The huge list of threads about nukers, AoE, Frost, Volt, Wisp, Saryn... at least it seems that Loki and Valkyr can't change others position anymore.

Again, Limbo is as disruptive as the person that plays him. Players can be disruptive, not warframes.

il y a 41 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

And I don’t need an explanation of the rift.

Excellent ! Welcome to the Group of Limbo Specialists !

il y a 45 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

The way it works, if I shoot a bramma shot at some frozen enemies at the edge of some random Limbo’s cataclysm, I have no way of knowing whether it will actually land or not.

The same goes for Frost Snow Globe : fire your Bramma from outside and you'll hit no one inside.

And what your are saying is very easy to avoid. It's true that the enemies at the border of Cataclysm are a bit "no brain" and will continuously try to get inside, but you can perfectly kill them by just getting a bit near or using a melee or a hitscan weapon.

And it's very curious you've used the Bramma as an exemple, as it is considered by many players as the most disruptive weapon in the game that removes the fun of everybody in the squad (this is not my opinion, but that of someone else I'm talking to on another thread). As you can see, to use your own words, even you can make a conscious decision to use a weapon that will make other players’ experiences more frustrating... and without Limbo !

[EinheriarJudith]

13 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

@gamingchair1121 is one of the best Limbo players (and perhaps the best Limbo specialist available) here and he can give a lot of useful advises to anyone that want to become a Limbo lover.

its ok to get advice on how to play something proficiently. its not ok when you think people need someone to help them enjoy it.

people dont need advice on how to play in a manner that is not intrusive to their squad. the rift should not have this affect period.

i love playing cata+rift surge. i play it quite well maintaining rift surge's spread. if i try to use this in a squad people are going to leave. that is a fact.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

If you’re still playing him after he has steadily lost his relevance, you are making a conscious decision to use a sub-optimal frame

i disagree with this part. frame choice is up to the persons preference. thats like saying dont play with nyx because loki can do it better with disarm and its augment. or dont play volt because wisp can do it better.

people have a right to play what they enjoy. but absolutely DE needs to do something about the rift mechanic.

[AegidiusF]

il y a 15 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

its not ok when you think people need someone to help them enjoy it.

Everybody need some help at some moment about some things to be able to enjoy these things. You can do it by yourself or you can receive help from others. Limbo is not an exception. That's, by the way, why the Wiki is there : to help players enjoy better theit stuff.

il y a 15 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

people dont need advice on how to play in a manner that is not intrusive to their squad.

I would say : people should not need to get help about how to play Limbo in a good way. All the information needed should be in game and in a very clear way. Unfortunately, it's not the case.

il y a 15 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

the rift should not have this affect period

What effect ? The freeeze and unfreeze on its border ? I didnt' get it, sorry.

il y a 15 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

i love playing cata+rift surge. i play it quite well maintaining rift surge's spread. if i try to use this in a squad people are going to leave. that is a fact.

You see : only people that don't know how this works will leave : That's why some players need help to understand how exactly Limbo works : that's necessary for those who play Limbo and fot those who doesn't.

  

il y a 6 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

i disagree with this part. frame choice is up to the persons preference.

il y a 6 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

people have a right to play what they enjoy

I totally agree.

[EinheriarJudith]

12 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Everybody need some help at some moment about some things to be able to enjoy these things. You can do it by yourself or you can receive help from others. Limbo is not an exception. That's, by the way, why the Wiki is there : to help players enjoy better theit stuff.

you can enjoy something you dont fully understand. you can also not enjoy something you full understand. 

 

12 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I would say : people should not need to get help about how to play Limbo in a good way. All the information needed should be in game and in a very clear way. Unfortunately, it's not the case.

the rift is the reason why anyone can even say this. you do not see these frequent complaints with other frames. 

 

12 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

What effect ?

is this a trick question?

 

12 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

You see : only people that don't know how this works will leave : That's why some players need help to understand how exactly Limbo works : that's necessary for those who play Limbo and fot those who doesn't.

it shouldn't even have to be that way. people should not have to need that knowledge about a frame they arent playing just to play the way they want in a squad.

[EinheriarJudith]

warframe is not the type of game that fits the rift mechanic as it is now. again go and look at all of his patch notes. it is clear evidence.

[sunderthefirmament]

40 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

quitting it is a way of excluding others.

I never said that I quit when I encounter a Limbo. 
 

41 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

The same goes for Frost Snow Globe : fire your Bramma from outside and you'll hit no one inside.

 

That’s inaccurate unless you’re playing a max range Frost. I run neutral range and have no issues hitting enemies within a distant globe with an AOE weapon. 
 

42 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

And it's very curious you've used the Bramma as an exemple, as it is considered by many players as the most disruptive weapon in the game that removes the fun of everybody in the squad (this is not my opinion, but that of someone else I'm talking to on another thread). As you can see, to use your own words, even you can make a conscious decision to use a weapon that will make other players’ experiences more frustrating... and without Limbo !

While I think there’s something to be said for how easy it is to hog all the kills and turn the game into a walking simulator for other players, that’s not really the point of this thread. When I join a mission, it’s to win, usually in an efficient and enjoyable way. Me using a bramma doesn’t impinge upon anyone else’s efficiency or drops. Slowing things down with a Limbo does. 

[sunderthefirmament]

25 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i disagree with this part. frame choice is up to the persons preference. thats like saying dont play with nyx because loki can do it better with disarm and its augment. or dont play volt because wisp can do it better.

people have a right to play what they enjoy. but absolutely DE needs to do something about the rift mechanic.

I agree for basically every frame but Limbo. Griefing is hardcoded into his kit. And if you play him with Narrow Minded, trying to bend over backwards to be considerate of other players and rarely using your powers, then why aren’t you playing a different frame?  There’s a thin line between griefing and leeching with Limbo, and it’s less and less worthwhile to attempt to walk that line when CC is so undervalued and eximi exist. 

[AegidiusF]

il y a 7 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

you can enjoy something you dont fully understand. you can also not enjoy something you full understand. 

I agree, but you'll enjoy even more if you full understand.

il y a 3 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

the rift is the reason why anyone can even say this. you do not see these frequent complaints with other frames. 

I kind of agree : the lack information is mostly about the rift, but there are many other frames suffering from the lack of information : Mirage, as an exemple, whose Eclipse offrers no damage reduction against toxin damage (even if you are in the darkest area) and there is no mention of this in the game.

il y a 7 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

is this a trick question?

No, it's not. I'm not a native English speaker and I couldn't get the meaning of what you've said on your previous post. Sorry.

il y a 9 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

it shouldn't even have to be that way. people should not have to need that knowledge about a frame they arent playing just to play the way they want in a squad.

It's because you are in a squad composed of different frames that you need to know how they work : How Wisp abilities work and how to benefit from them ? How Chroma's abilities work and how to benefit from them ?... Mag's abilities, Volt's,... When you're not solo, you'll have to understand how others work.

[EinheriarJudith]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I agree, but you'll enjoy even more if you full understand.

agreed.

 

8 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

I kind of agree : the lack information is mostly about the rift, but there are many other frames suffering from the lack of information : Mirage, as an exemple, whose Eclipse offrers no damage reduction against toxin damage (even if you are in the darkest area) and there is no mention of this in the game.

this has more to do with knowing what the difference between DR and Armor is and less to do with frame abilities.

 

8 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

No, it's not. I'm not a native English speaker and I couldn't get the meaning of what you've said on your previous post. Sorry.

the affect im talking about is the rift and how it divides enemies from players and players from enemies. the only person who can decide what happens on the playing field here is limbo himself. player agency is out.

 

8 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

It's because you are in a squad composed of different frames that you need to know how they work : How Wisp abilities work and how to benefit from them ? How Chroma's abilities work and how to benefit from them ?... Mag's abilities, Volt's,... When you're not solo, you'll have to understand how others work.

if this were true, we would be seeing massive complaints about frames almost in the same manner as the ones about limbo but we dont.

you do not need to know what any of the frames you listed in this example do in order to be able to play in a squad with them.

[EinheriarJudith]

15 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I agree for basically every frame but Limbo. Griefing is hardcoded into his kit. And if you play him with Narrow Minded, trying to bend over backwards to be considerate of other players and rarely using your powers, then why aren’t you playing a different frame?

i agree so hard with this.

 

15 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

 There’s a thin line between griefing and leeching with Limbo

this is an issue tied to how the rift lets people do it.

 

15 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

and it’s less and less worthwhile to attempt to walk that line when CC is so undervalued and eximi exist. 

again the eximus are a non issue. im glad DE took steps to reign in turning enemy AI off with CC. soloing on limbo for me has become more fun because of the eximus. then again, i love the eximus update as a whole. 

Edit: if DE had not nerfed mirage's blind effect on prism, she would still be rendering AI on the map useless.

[AegidiusF]

il y a 14 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

I never said that I quit when I encounter a Limbo. 

OMG ! Sorry ! I'm feeling awful : I misread your post :

Le 03/03/2023 à 23:24, sunderthefirmament a dit :

There's a reason I shudder whenever a Limbo joins my game. 

I really apologize for this.

il y a 18 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

That’s inaccurate unless you’re playing a max range Frost. I run neutral range and have no issues hitting enemies within a distant globe with an AOE weapon. 

This is very accurate unless you're playing some AoE that can go from outsie to inside Frost Snow Gloge : any projectile will be blocked and even some abilities.

il y a 19 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

While I think there’s something to be said for how easy it is to hog all the kills and turn the game into a walking simulator for other players, that’s not really the point of this thread.

I partially agree : disruptive gameplay is in the topic here and I took that exemple to show that anyone can be as disruptive as any Limbo player.

il y a 21 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

When I join a mission, it’s to win

Just like any Limbo player.

il y a 21 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

usually in an efficient and enjoyable way

Just like any Limbo player.

il y a 21 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

Me using a bramma doesn’t impinge upon anyone else’s efficiency or drops.

Me using Limbo doesn't impinge upun anyone else's efficiency or drops neither. But many players will find a Bramma much more disruptive than a Limbo.

il y a 22 minutes, sunderthefirmament a dit :

Slowing things down with a Limbo does. 

Never had this experience, so I can't really understand players saying this. I can't see how Limbo can slow dow na mission.

[AegidiusF]

il y a 15 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

the affect im talking about is the rift and how it divides enemies from players and players from enemies. the only person who can decide what happens on the playing field here is limbo himself. player agency is out.

Ok, I've got it. Thanks.

At first, I thought you were talking about the fact that Cataclysm's range decreases over time : this point, even though I don't have problems with, can be a problem for some players and I agree with those who complain about this point, even though - again - I have no problems with it.

 

il y a 18 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

if this were true, we would be seeing massive complaints about frames almost in the same manner as the ones about limbo but we dont.

you do not need to know what any of the frames you listed in this example do in order to be able to play in a squad with them.

This is because there are only a few players that are really playing in a squad : most of the time we have players playing solo together : nobody cares about the other and how to synergize or work better together, it's almost a competition about who kills more (like on the Deimos bounty with the Grineers), or who make the hugest amount of damage, but I don't care about this at all when I'm in a squad.

We do have many threads complaining about Saryn, Volt, Wisp, Frost (I've linked one to this thread some time ago) and we used to have many about Wukong. The reason is always the same : lack of synergy between these frames (Limbo included) and the other frames in the squad. For Wisp and Volt, players usually ask for a way to not be affected by hteir abilities (as for Limbo's Banish) and for Frost players usually complain about Snow Globe being used mindlessy.

il y a 21 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

Edit: if DE had not nerfed mirage's blind effect on prism, she would still be rendering AI on the map useless.

I agree. So bad they forgot to remove the blind effect on Wisp Breach Surge, that works on Eximus even with active Overguard. Mesa's Muzzle Flash too. And these two can be put on every warframe through the Helminth system. I'm asking for these and other CC abilities that are still working on Eximus to be fixed for a while, but no changes till this day.

[Marvelous_A]

Limbo's abilities are EXTREMELY DISRUPTIVE to an unorganized team. That's the core issue of him, and 95% of Warframe gameplay consists of an unorganized team unless you go solo (in which case Limbo won't be a problem for you anyway). He's disruptive in the sense that his abilities are very inconsistent, you are not absolutely safe in the rift and the enemies are not completely vulnerable either. Enemies MIGHT take damage and you MIGHT be hurt by a certain Eximus attack. SOME Eximus attacks can get through the rift and SOME of your attacks might hit SOME enemies on the edge of a shrinking rift. There are always some Schrodinger's mobs at the edge of the rift which all your attacks have a 50/50 chance to hit or miss. It's like playing a RNG simulator when you are playing with a Limbo and I gotta say it's a very unpleasant experience.