The Archwing launcher feels really bad to farm for

[SirLhercam]

I recently made a new account to check out the new player experience, since the last time I played it was before Natah was added. After completing The Second Dream, I decided to try and do some open world content. The base cost of the Archwing launcher already feels pretty bad, since you basically need to do the thing it makes significantly less annoying, travelling around the Plains of Eidolon a bunch. But, as I had forgotten, since it's been a while, you also need to get the launcher segment, which is a clan blueprint and needs a very large amount of Oxium compared to what you get early game, as well as basically the same resources as the actual launcher.

The two main problems I see with this are:
Needing the launcher segment is not easily visible, which makes it really demotivating to realize after the farming already feels pretty bad, since you either hold up a group which already has Archwing launchers by doing it in bounties, or you go for free-roam and spend a lot of time just running around.
Secondly, the fact that getting the launcher takes as long as it does is likely to sour new players on open world content, as doing it without does not feel great. (Even worse if they aren't used to bullet jumping everywhere yet).

Also, Oxium is about the most annoying non-open-world resource it could be, since really early on melee/shotguns are by far your strongest weapon type because of pressure point/point blank being much quicker to upgrade than serration/hornet strike, and oxium drones have a tendency to explode in your face and drop nothing if you have to kill them in close range.

[emmyemi]

I agree with you overall, but just a tip for the Oxium drones: there is an audio cue and an animation that plays when they're revving up to try and self-destruct, you can pretty easily dodge out of the way. As long as they don't run into a wall or something, you'll have more time to kill them.

They start going into self-destruct mode as soon as they take health damage, so you can be ready for this. It might also help to have a crowd control ability on them so they can't even try.

[Hobie-wan]

A few things though. You weren't a new player when getting to open areas, so there was no discovery and newness where you wanted to explore and find things. You were already in the mindset of "gotta get everywhere ASAP". The plains aren't meant for newer players, so really one should take a peek, then continue on to other planets for the mean time and come back later. One will have had opportunity to encounter and collect more oxium by the time they should be coming back. Though the plains even has those teleporters now, so getting around without AW would be faster than it was before. Admittedly I play more solo, and especially did back when the Plains were new.

Also people should be reasonably familiar and somewhat comfortable with bullet jumping by the time they get to open areas. The tutorial mission specifically tells you how to do it since the revamp and if they've played in groups, other players will have been doing it.

As far as clans go, there is lots of other stuff one should get from dojos, so it is encouraged to be in a clan anyway. I see casual ones that don't have 5 days kicks that players could join if they don't want to start up their own and feel like they're under a demanding taskmaster.

I had been playing for a while before the AW launcher was added and it's been forever since I made mine (and charges, of which I still have a pile) so I don't remember how long it took me, but It doesn't stand out as something I worked forever on. Not saying you're wrong, just some counterpoints.

[NinjaZeku]

14 hours ago, SirLhercam said:

you either hold up a group which already has Archwing launchers by doing it in bounties, or you go for free-roam and spend a lot of time just running around

Just to check, are you aware you can (for free, and immediately) teleport all over Free-Roam areas
at any time by simply opening the full map and clicking a teleport pad?

Because I'd say those things do a pretty good job at their intended purpose,
which was to make the Archwing Launcher much less of a necessity.

[PollexMessier]

As someone who recently helped a friend through the start of the game. Yeah this is a huge problem.

They got pretty discouraged multiple times trying to work towards the arcwing launcher to a degree nothing else seemed to match. Even the necramech grind which is way worse they didn't really seem to mind much. But the arcwing launcher really frustrated them and it's easy to see why.

Even taking the teleporters into account it's still an essential tool in open worlds for a variety of reasons. And the course of discovery with this thing is: Farm up the materials you need to craft it, learn you can't craft it without the launcher segment even tho the launcher blueprint itself is already in your foundy, get recruited into a clan (Or god forbid, build your own which they almost tried to do), learn you need to build a key to get into the dojo to get the segment, farm resources to craft the key, wait a day for the key to craft, get the segment blueprint and farm resources for the segment, wait a day for the segment to craft, and THEN you can craft the launcher.

It's absolutely rediculous.

The launcher segment, as well as the landing craft segment (Does anyone remember that you needed a segment to be able to craft air support charges? I sure didn't and boy is it stupid) Should just be removed from the game and have those functions available by default.

And the dojo key is a really god damn dumb mechanic.

[Hobie-wan]

11 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

earn you need to build a key to get into the dojo to get the segment, farm resources to craft the key, wait a day for the key to craft, get the segment blueprint and farm resources for the segment, wait a day for the segment to craft, and THEN you can craft the launcher.

If a few days of crafting and getting that done is that bothersome, then the rest of the grind is surely going to turn them off. If they can't handle goals and want instant gratification, I'd argue the game as a whole isn't for them.

11 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

And the dojo key is a really god damn dumb mechanic.

It is to prevent people from joining a dojo, leeching BPs for 5 minutes, and then leaving to go rinse and repeat off the next clan. Or maybe you like having random people come over, use all your stuff, and then leaving without so much as a thank you? Sure people might still leech and leave, but if it takes a few materials and a day to get in, it makes people a little less likely to do that.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

3 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

If a few days of crafting and getting that done is that bothersome, then the rest of the grind is surely going to turn them off. If they can't handle goals and want instant gratification, I'd argue the game as a whole isn't for them.

It is to prevent people from joining a dojo, leeching BPs for 5 minutes, and then leaving to go rinse and repeat off the next clan. Or maybe you like having random people come over, use all your stuff, and then leaving without so much as a thank you? Sure people might still leech and leave, but if it takes a few materials and a day to get in, it makes people a little less likely to do that.

As a clan owner with 100% research I could care less of leechers especially because it helps people get basic items so I strongly disagree with your reasoning.

[PollexMessier]

3 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

If a few days of crafting and getting that done is that bothersome, then the rest of the grind is surely going to turn them off. If they can't handle goals and want instant gratification, I'd argue the game as a whole isn't for them.

The issue is the game gives you the launcher blueprint before you have the segment. Giving you the impression that you can just craft it right off the bat, and then you're suddenly hit with being required to join a clan to get it, something that's typically optional in other games, then the realization that once you've joined a guild you have to wait for a day before you can even interact with any clan functions at all for no reason, then you have to farm up more resources than your foundry said you needed to craft ANOTHER thing that takes a day to craft to get the thing that you wanted. All this for what's a core traversal tool that you practically can't play open worlds in public without.

Every time you think you've done the thing you needed to do you find another step that was hidden until you reached it.

Everything else is fairly clear about what you need to do to get something upfront. Like I said that had no issues with the necramech grind which is 100 times more grindy, but it doesn't lie to you about how grindy it's going to be.

They wanted to get the arcwing launcher to make grinding for the necramech easier, but they ended up skipping the launcher entirely and grinding out the necramech first because the launcher was just too far out of their way for an optional convenience that ultimately would've taken them longer to get what they wanted if they spent the time on it. And they weren't even using the teleporters most of that time despite me heavily trying to encourage them to. And the only thing they complained about with the necramech grind was the rarity of necrathane which they just got really abysmal rng on.

4 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

Or maybe you like having random people come over, use all your stuff, and then leaving without so much as a thank you? Sure people might still leech and leave, but if it takes a few materials and a day to get in, it makes people a little less likely to do that.

So? I don't lose anything from players doing that. I think requiring players to be in a clan to access such a large amount of the game's content is stupid. If I ran my own clan I would actively encourage players do that with mine, and be happy about helping them. I like the clan lab system but it is really annoying that it effectively forces every player that doesn't have a friend that owns their own clan ether has to go through the horrific grind of building a clan themselves, or is forced to join a clan of complete strangers they have 0 interest in just to get the clan exclusive stuff.

[SpicyDinosaur]

16 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

As someone who recently helped a friend through the start of the game. Yeah this is a huge problem.

They got pretty discouraged multiple times trying to work towards the arcwing launcher to a degree nothing else seemed to match. Even the necramech grind which is way worse they didn't really seem to mind much. But the arcwing launcher really frustrated them and it's easy to see why.

Even taking the teleporters into account it's still an essential tool in open worlds for a variety of reasons. And the course of discovery with this thing is: Farm up the materials you need to craft it, learn you can't craft it without the launcher segment even tho the launcher blueprint itself is already in your foundy, get recruited into a clan (Or god forbid, build your own which they almost tried to do), learn you need to build a key to get into the dojo to get the segment, farm resources to craft the key, wait a day for the key to craft, get the segment blueprint and farm resources for the segment, wait a day for the segment to craft, and THEN you can craft the launcher.

It's absolutely rediculous.

The launcher segment, as well as the landing craft segment (Does anyone remember that you needed a segment to be able to craft air support charges? I sure didn't and boy is it stupid) Should just be removed from the game and have those functions available by default.

And the dojo key is a really god damn dumb mechanic.

quick question, why not just go snag the starter k-drive while working towards getting the archwing launcher segment? Between that and the teleport pads unless you were rushing your friend through everything, (which is a good way to spoil the game for anyone, even if they think they want to be at your progress point immediately because they want to play with you,) there's not really even a reason to need the archwing launcher segment for some time.

 

Also, as a counterpoint to the other clan owner with 100% research, as a clan and alliance owner with 100% research, I prefer that the dojo key mechanic stay in the game. I don't care if people leech bps, but they either need to be 12 hours worth of patient, or completely honest about it.

[PollexMessier]

4 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

quick question, why not just go snag the starter k-drive while working towards getting the archwing launcher segment? Between that and the teleport pads unless you were rushing your friend through everything, (which is a good way to spoil the game for anyone, even if they think they want to be at your progress point immediately because they want to play with you,) there's not really even a reason to need the archwing launcher segment for some time.

They had the K-drive already. It plus the teleporters still suck in comparison to arcwings, even if they're a major improvement over open worlds at launch. They said themselves once they got the launcher that it massively improved their experience with the open worlds.

And they were rushing themselves through the game. I tried to encourage them to take their time and mess around with side activities, but I was still happy to help with anything they asked me to.

[Hobie-wan]

21 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

As a clan owner with 100% research I could care less of leechers especially because it helps people get basic items so I strongly disagree with your reasoning.

20 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

So? I don't lose anything from players doing that.

I have no problem helping people. I spent a fair amount of time obtaining Ignis Wraith BPs from nice people in clans that had it and then giving them out freely to others. Almost all of the people I gave them out to were nice, happy, and said thanks. A few asked how I got them and when I explained, some maybe went on to help spread them. It was good, and now the problem has been taken care of so it is no longer needed.

I don't spend a lot of time in recruiting, mostly just when there's a new prime and want to find radshares or am bored and looking if anyone needs help with a mission. When in there though, I see people posting that they're looking for a clan or specific BP and many of them post their question in a way that makes it pretty clear they just want to grab a BP without so much as a KTHXBYE and leave.

You guys do you, and that's fine. I just don't want to reward impolite behavior.

20 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

The issue is the game gives you the launcher blueprint before you have the segment.

Fair enough. I don't remember a problem like that. But it has been ages.