Spawn Rates - PCHost - Some Questions

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

So I can compare my KPM obviously. You need 2 numbers to compare after all. You want everything to "be the same", so I'm willing to indulge. Elara is the most consistent survival tileset. Unless you don't want to actually test claims.

OK, I sat down today just to test it for you on PC. I did 2 runs, one on each tile start setup i.e big room and small room. Saryn with Nourish was used with a high ranged build, weapons were kzarr, rabvee contagion and laetum (not used at all), pet was panzer, focus unairu, arcanes avenger and grace, 4 armor shards, 1 tau energy pick up shard.

On the large room setup I stayed around the spawn point door, ran into the room to loot, mobs came from left, right and front (from both stairs leading down).

On the small map I passed by the small room and into the dead end "locker room". This to reduce the chance for mobs from stopping to shoot at me, or having a chance to spawn infront of me to stand and shoot. So mobs came from the left and right corridor. Few actually made it down the stairs, the few that did were nullifiers and whatever ran with them in the bubble.

The results after exactly 20 minutes on each were.

Small = 2135 kills (4 acolytes included) / 107 KPM

Large = 2426 kills (4 acolytes included) / 121 KPM

This was also with life support constantly topped of from drops, with plenty more to collect if I wanted to.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Small = 2135 kills (4 acolytes included) / 107 KPM

Large = 2426 kills (4 acolytes included) / 121 KPM

Meanwhile using a Bramma with Roar Saryn nets me 1528 kills in 20 min on the small spawn (76.4 KPM)
On the large, I got 1823 kills (91.2 kpm).

That's only 70-75% of your KPM

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Meanwhile using a Bramma with Roar Saryn nets me 1528 kills in 20 min on the small spawn (76.4 KPM)
On the large, I got 1823 kills (91.2 kpm).

That's only 70-75% of your KPM

Which tells us what exactly? If you wanna test something do it properly instead of using different variables. I literally wasted 40 #*!%ing minutes to give you some form of data and you cant even bother to try it with the same or a similar setup?

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

26 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Which tells us what exactly? If you wanna test something do it properly instead of using different variables. I literally wasted 40 #*!%ing minutes to give you some form of data and you cant even bother to try it with the same or a similar setup?

Cause Bramma and Zarr are sooo different. The setup is similar lol. Enemies are still getting oneshot so there's no difference. Unless you wanna make the claim that Nourish is somehow making enemies die faster than oneshotting. Chill your toddler tantrum.

But please, tell me what is making such a big difference. Surely it's the "different" AoE weapon that has the same range and effective fire rate that is still oneshotting mobs that made the comparison invalid. It can't simply be that console spawns are reduced. Oh no, a different buff that enables oneshotting is used.

[SneakyErvin]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Cause Bramma and Zarr are sooo different. The setup is the same. Enemies are still getting oneshot so there's no difference. Unless you wanna make the claim that Nourish is somehow making enemies die faster than oneshotting. Chill your toddler tantrum.

They are quite different yes. Or do you have a magic bramma that doesnt require a charge up, so you can spread the payload in whatever direction you want as needed? One-shot doesnt really matter as much as how often you can one-shot something, or in the case of corpus hit something to deal Toxic Lash damage and get a Toxin proc rolling that more often than not kill anything it hits.

And Nourish does help, since it allows for free viral spread across quite decent ranges whenever you (or your pet) take damage, which helps Spores kill faster without the need to apply miasma constantly as they spread down the corridors. Each Nourish proc also has a chance to pop Spores and Panzer boils.

Like I said, few mobs made it down the stairs from the corridors on the small map. I had to constantly bullet jump through the corridors to gather life support drops.

 

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

They are quite different yes. Or do you have a magic bramma that doesnt require a charge up, so you can spread the payload in whatever direction you want as needed?

Bramma With Vile Acceleration, Crit Delay, and Merciless has an average fire rate of ~1.6. Kuva Zarr with the same conditions has an average fire rate of ~1 with reloads. Bramma is the same effective speed or better. Guess my Bramma is magic after all.

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And Nourish does help, since it allows for free viral spread across quite decent ranges whenever you (or your pet) take damage, which helps Spores kill faster without the need to apply miasma constantly as they spread down the corridors. Each Nourish proc also has a chance to pop Spores and Panzer boils.

M'dude, Vapos Corpus EHP is over half shields, and do you know what Roar does? Increases all damage, not just health damage. If you're having issues spreading Spores (which are minor DPS be real), you have skill issues but still end up with better KPM? Even when you say that you have to constantly move?

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Bramma With Vile Acceleration, Crit Delay, and Merciless has an average fire rate of ~1.6. Kuva Zarr with the same conditions has an average fire rate of ~1 with reloads. Bramma is the same effective speed or better. Guess my Bramma is magic after all.

M'dude, Vapos Corpus EHP is over half shields, and do you know what Roar does? Increases all damage, not just health damage. If you're having issues spreading Spores (which are minor DPS be real), you have skill issues but still end up with better KPM?

Reloads arent an issue though, since you have plenty of time to reload after having deleted the enemies that you need to actually shoot. If you need to reload that is, you can always just keep going deleting things with Toxin Lash souped up Contagion as the Zarr passively regens ammo. The thing is you cannot just tap and turn, tap and turn with a bramma.

Please dont try and scew this into a "skill issue". I mean you are also making up that the spores are minor dps. Can you then explain why mobs barely reach my position to be shot at? If spores didnt wipe the map I would shoot alot more dont you think? We did afterall decide to use the "spawn" rooms for equal mob flow, so I cant really go out of my way to seek out active killing to stop spores from doing the work.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Reloads arent an issue though, since you have plenty of time to reload after having deleted the enemies that you need to actually shoot. If you need to reload that is, you can always just keep going deleting things with Toxin Lash souped up Contagion as the Zarr passively regens ammo. The thing is you cannot just tap and turn, tap and turn with a bramma.

This is all a non-issue.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Can you then explain why mobs barely reach my position to be shot at? If spores didnt wipe the map I would shoot alot more dont you think?

Then why is using Bramma such an issue if you rarely need to shoot? Sounds like you’re just bad at getting good sight lines and not being proactive.

Here's a free tip btw

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Each Nourish proc also has a chance to pop Spores and Panzer boils.

Nourish's explosion doesn't spread Spores

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

This is all a non-issue.

Then why is using Bramma such an issue if you rarely need to shoot? Sounds like you’re just bad at getting good sight lines and not being proactive.

Here's a free tip btw

Nourish's explosion doesn't spread Spores

You've still failed to mention how much you needed to kill with your bramma and how much your spores kill. And sight lines shouldnt even be of the discussion, because we were supposed to test it in a somewhat similar way, hence why I stayed in the small room or at the stairs as I said for the two maps. All in order to not run into more differences of the map layout, because we frankly only know that the rooms directly after the spawn are identical and only come in two versions. Even the locker room I camped in can at times be a corridor leading to new areas or a dead end corridor made up of a few rooms in a row.

And nourish does spread spores, since the skill works similar to Enox 4 and hits random parts of the body, which can include spores, heads etc. Does it always spread? No, but no one claimed it does. But since it explodes as often as the ICD allows it leads to a good amount of passive spore procs.

We should probably end it here since clearly you cannot stand getting questioned or be bothered to test it properly under nearly identical conditions. All I really asked is if you were 100% sure, nothing more. Yet you get mysteriously defensive and straight up hostile. Heck, you havent even bothered to actually mention your build aside from "dur I used Roar Saryn with Bramma".

[AegidiusF]

Le 15/04/2023 à 20:39, Tiltskillet a dit :

It's just a separate question.  With Defense's odd success conditions I was curious if it played faster, slower, or the same with console hosts, all else being equal.

 

Nice question.

By the way, if you think it's useful, we could test it together, as I'm on an old gen console : same mission, same equipment : you host one mission and I host the other. And then we can compare values.

If I can help, I will be very glad.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You've still failed to mention how much you needed to kill with your bramma and how much your spores kill.

I'd estimate every 1-3 spore kill for every 10 Bramma kills. *Shrug* not like those are hard figures. Not like you've actually given hard figures for how often your Spores kill and how much your weapons kill.

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And sight lines shouldnt even be of the discussion

You know that each of the spawns has several branches right. You can stay within the spawn but still make use of sightlines without ever looking into other tiles. That's really just another point in my favor tbh. I'm getting the best view I can, you're not but still getting more.

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And nourish does spread spores, since the skill works similar to Enox 4 and hits random parts of the body, which can include spores, heads etc.

It doesn't but feel free to actually prove it. I can tell you that in 12 tests where I load 3 out of 20 enemies with Spores and wait for Nourish explosions to pop spores, I've had never had them be spread by Nourish. But hey, should be easy to show that Nourish can spread them. Oh wait, can't have you waste 10 min testing.

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yet you get mysteriously defensive and straight up hostile.

lel, only after you started getting hostile.

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Heck, you havent even bothered to actually mention your build aside from "dur I used Roar Saryn with Bramma".

Saryn with Roar was used with a high ranged build, weapons were KBramma, Praedos and Laetum (not used at all), pet was panzer, focus Vazarin, arcanes Energize and Augmented.

Hows that. Build is functionally identical (actually better against Corpus), actually proactively using weapons, not passively waiting for Spore dps.

 

But hey, you know what happens when I do use Nourish and your loadouts? I get the same or worse KPM. Shocking.

1347 kills on 20 min on the small spawn (67.4 KPM)

1913 kills in 21 min on the large spawn (91.1 KPM)

 

[Felsagger]

Thewayofwisdom I suggest you to disengage with Ervin. He will be hunting down your post even in your dreams. 

 

DISENGAGE. Save your time, your mental health and your spiritual SANITY. 

lol. 

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

I'd estimate every 1-3 spore kill for every 10 Bramma kills. *Shrug* not like those are hard figures. Not like you've actually given hard figures for how often your Spores kill and how much your weapons kill.

You know that each of the spawns has several branches right. You can stay within the spawn but still make use of sightlines without ever looking into other tiles. That's really just another point in my favor tbh. I'm getting the best view I can, you're not but still getting more.

It doesn't but feel free to actually prove it. I can tell you that in 12 tests where I load 3 out of 20 enemies with Spores and wait for Nourish explosions to pop spores, I've had never had them be spread by Nourish. But hey, should be easy to show that Nourish can spread them. Oh wait, can't have you waste 10 min testing.

lel, only after you started getting hostile.

Saryn with Roar was used with a high ranged build, weapons were KBramma, Praedos and Laetum (not used at all), pet was panzer, focus Vazarin, arcanes Energize and Augmented.

Hows that. Build is functionally identical (actually better against Corpus), actually proactively using weapons, not passively waiting for Spore dps.

 

But hey, you know what happens when I do use Nourish and your loadouts? I get the same or worse KPM. Shocking.

1347 kills on 20 min on the small spawn (67.4 KPM)

1913 kills in 21 min on the large spawn (91.1 KPM)

I couldnt give any hard figures, since the few I needed to kill with weapons werent very many at all on the small map. Like I said, it ended up being when nullies came running with other mobs in their dome, or when a guardian turned up. On the big map I'd say 50/50 maybe, since there were always visible mobs and I was more or less always visible. So it came down to spreading zarr shots and contagion blasts along with spore kills.

The small room only had 2 spawn directions, 3 if I'd stay at the insertion point main door on the small map. I gotta ask, are you staying in the very direct spawn area i.e where we start out? Or are you staying near/in the small/big "first" room? The big room for me had 3 direction, left, right and front. I'm starting to wonder where you actually stand on the map you wanted me to test it on. 

I also wonder. How do you end up with a 21 min time?