Give Chroma’s Vex Armor A Channeling Option.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

That simple. His Vex Armor requires damage to health and shields to work. But since self damage has been removed and there debates about bringing it back, channeling is the only alternative option.

Simply, if you tap the third ability, it activates Vex Armor. But you must hold the ability in order to channel both health and shields in the buffs. If DE doesn’t want it to be too easy, then maybe as a secondary option, the channeling uses more health and shields where the default stats only build both buffs like 25%. But the channeling has no duration limit except for the vex armor duration itself. So you can wait, rebuild health and shields then hold the ability again to continue raising the buffs till they reach 100% maxed buffs.

As a secondary option, if you take damage you will still gain the buffs at a normal speed. Let’s say a full default health of 300 builds 100% if damaged. While that same amount only builds 25% of channeled. If you managed to channel 150, you’d gain 12.5% of the increase, if the other 150 is damaged, then you would gain another 50% of the increase, making the full Fury buff increase to 62.5% of max buff. So if your Fury can buff damage by 500%, then you’d gain 312.5% damage buff until you recover and can continue building. Tapping the ability again would refresh the duration like it usually does.

 

At least this ADDITION to the Vex Armor would be very convenient and reduce unnecessary risks. Even if self damage was to return, this second option could still remain for those who don’t want to take such risks with self damage. This secondary option wouldn’t affect anybody else. Only benefit certain others.  It’s not a complete change to the ability, just an alternative option.
 

With the right teamwork this alternative option can easily be tolerated. 2 chromas with fire and electric to buff both health and shields could easily fix the health and shield channeling limit. A Trinity could restore both over and over. Multiple teamwork options and isn’t teamwork the main thing DE tries to encourage in public games? 
 

Just my opinion. Others I’ve spoken to agree but we obviously don’t speak for everybody.

[Nekomian]

2 hours ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

But since self damage has been removed and there debates about bringing it back, channeling is the only alternative option.

I've not heard any debate about it coming back, I'm pretty certain they intend for it to stay as is because it's not a good mechanic for a lot of players (especially newer ones) to suddenly down themselves from weapons or attacks. It might be "beneficial" in a few unique situations, like with "on damage" arcanes or applicable to Chroma's kit, but overall it's a nicer system to just have it perform a stagger.

Side note, the "channeling" portion of your initial post is a bit confusing, as abilities with this description are "toggled" but your provided changes just indicate a hold mechanic that doesn't act the same or affect the duration of the buff like a "channeled" skill would. Maybe calling it "Hold Mechanic" might be more apt. See:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Channeled_Abilities

2 hours ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

At least this ADDITION to the Vex Armor would be very convenient and reduce unnecessary risks.

The point of the skill is risk begets rewards - it's not difficult to sit still and stack buffs from taking damage, but you increase your risk of being downed by doing so. You can also recast it while active to keep the current buffs active indefinitely, meaning you really only have to take the damage once to stack more armor and damage and make sure you recast before it hits 0 (with an extra duration and less range build this gives you like 50+ seconds each cast).

I don't disagree that giving it some easier activation condition would be nice (maybe starts with 25% of the buff and scales up, rather than casting for no initial benefit whatsoever since that feels a bit bad), but allowing the user to just immediately go to full buff amount with a hold mechanic makes the skill feel just like roar or eclipse, a flat "press button and buff" skill. It already requires very little from the user as is (get hit by something, which happens during normal gameplay), and they're trying to have some condition that makes it feel less "samey" while still providing nice buffs and benefits to the user for their risk and investment.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

6 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

I've not heard any debate about it coming back, I'm pretty certain they intend for it to stay as is because it's not a good mechanic for a lot of players (especially newer ones) to suddenly down themselves from weapons or attacks. It might be "beneficial" in a few unique situations, like with "on damage" arcanes or applicable to Chroma's kit, but overall it's a nicer system to just have it perform a stagger.

Side note, the "channeling" portion of your initial post is a bit confusing, as abilities with this description are "toggled" but your provided changes just indicate a hold mechanic that doesn't act the same or affect the duration of the buff like a "channeled" skill would. Maybe calling it "Hold Mechanic" might be more apt. See:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Channeled_Abilities

The point of the skill is risk begets rewards - it's not difficult to sit still and stack buffs from taking damage, but you increase your risk of being downed by doing so. You can also recast it while active to keep the current buffs active indefinitely, meaning you really only have to take the damage once to stack more armor and damage and make sure you recast before it hits 0 (with an extra duration and less range build this gives you like 50+ seconds each cast).

I don't disagree that giving it some easier activation condition would be nice (maybe starts with 25% of the buff and scales up, rather than casting for no initial benefit whatsoever since that feels a bit bad), but allowing the user to just immediately go to full buff amount with a hold mechanic makes the skill feel just like roar or eclipse, a flat "press button and buff" skill. It already requires very little from the user as is (get hit by something, which happens during normal gameplay), and they're trying to have some condition that makes it feel less "samey" while still providing nice buffs and benefits to the user for their risk and investment.

I never said it would be “immediately”. I called it a channeling ability as it channels health and shields into the vex armor. It would take time to charge it up. Wouldn’t be anything like roar as everything about it is different other than it being a damage type buff. Roar is maxed instantly at what ever power strength you currently have and can’t be increased until it runs out. While this suggestion would require some time to build, slowly, not quickly.

 

I feel like you didn’t fully read and comprehend my suggestion. You made multiple arguments that seem either irrelevant or made false implications. Not once did I mention the ability being immediate or instant. Tapping the button activates Vex Armor normally as it already currently does. But the addition would mean holding it would cause Chroma to slowly give up his health and shields to build up the buff. Much like Inaros and his scarab armor. 
 

Sometimes you don’t got time to wait for someone to inflict damage on you, especially if you’re in a squad who kill everything before they can inflict even the most minor of damage. Which is why people used the self damage option as it was way quicker and less risky. Dudes would buff their chroma in like 3 seconds at risk of downing themselves. This channeling have similar results except it would stop at 1 health point, which would leave you vulnerable if done in a very inconvenient moment, and it would take longer than 3 seconds. Like channeling 10 points per second for 30 seconds total, maxed. Maybe increased efficiency or casting speed would speed up the process. Idk, I leave those numbers up to DE to ultimately decide. 
 

Didn’t think I had to break down every single measurement. Most of that is up to DE to decide so there’s no point in given a number as some will say it’s too long despite the current situation which doesn’t provide an alternative option at all, while others will say is too quick, much like you’re doing now even though I called it a channeling ability that channels health and shields into the vex armor and even tried to describe a scenario where if you took damage while channeling. Figured y’all would have encountered Inaros and understood. It wouldn’t be like Garuda or Harrow who sacrifices their health/shields instantly. How else could you spend 50% of your health and shields while taking damage to the rest in the example that I gave? 
 

You’re talking to a guy who uses chroma a lot, a lot more than you did considering I know like 100+ teamwork combos that he can used for besides just simply buffing up his allies. Using the channeling option wouldn’t be much different than self damage except for the fact you have to restore your health and would take longer to build up to max, plus not risk downing yourself. If some don’t have the patience, they can do it the old fashion way. If they do and would rather the mission, not to mention teamwork, go smoothly, this would be a nice alternative option.

 

Again, just my opinion, but I would appreciate it if assumptions weren’t made when debating about someone’s concept or suggestions. 

[Nekomian]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

Not once did I mention the ability being immediate or instant. Tapping the button activates Vex Armor normally as it already currently does. But the addition would mean holding it would cause Chroma to slowly give up his health and shields to build up the buff. Much like Inaros and his scarab armor. 

To clarify, I did not say "instant" - I said "immediately go to full buff amount with a hold mechanic". People will absolutely do this, like with scarab armor, by using other abilities or arcanes (like magus repair) to instantly fill health and shield, just to sit and hold to reach max buff amounts in situations where they cannot (or do not) want to get hit by enemies. This defeats the intent of the skill, to make it different from other buffs by having some risk & conditional associated with it, and also means the user has to sit still and hold a button for however long. I'm aware this was listed as an alternative to "if the user wants to take less risk", but to me it makes it feel like an easy one-tap activation skill, like the ones I listed, just with slightly extra steps.

20 minutes ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

You made multiple arguments that seem either irrelevant or made false implications.

Would you care to elaborate? If it's about the self damage thing, it was removed for a reason but I have not seen any sort of debate about it coming back, only various rumors or requests from people who might. I understand it has uses specifically for chroma and highlighted that, but for newer players and with all the new weapons we have that are AoE (some with very large ranges) it was causing some issues as it was, so DE weighed their options / tested and decided to introduce self stagger instead.

If it's about the skill needing some risk associated with it, it's fine to differ in opinion from me but I think it needs that to be distinct from others and still provide a high threshold of buffs (of which can get pretty high, even if they're additive %s and not multiplicative). I'd like to know what false implications or arguments I'm making, because I'm not seeing anything but me expressing my own opinions on the feedback of the skill change suggested, and the ramifications of it to a wider player base.

32 minutes ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

while others will say is too quick, much like you’re doing now even though I called it a channeling ability that channels health and shields into the vex armor and even tried to describe a scenario where if you took damage while channeling.

I did not say your solution was "too quick", like above I just stated people will sit there and hold the button, refresh shields and health, then continue to sit and hold until at max buffs. If you give people an option that's easier and less risky (controlled "channeling" in this case), they will absolutely take it over the alternative. There's a reason the majority of the community wants reworks to Inaros, and part of the "hold button and wait" mechanics that are a large part of his kit are great contributors - it's either too long and feels like a slog or too quick and essentially becomes a glorified button press.

42 minutes ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

I would appreciate it if assumptions weren’t made when debating about someone’s concept or suggestions.

Still not sure what false implications or assumptions I'm making - I listed a scenario where this change occurred and users interacted with it, just as you did; in yours, someone channeled health and shields and took damage, and in mine the person just sat there and held button, healed, held button, healed, etc. You even considered this scenario when you listed two chromas with fire / electric elemental ward, or a trinity. Feedback on changes can consider multiple scenarios and situations, and this is definitely one I can see happening where teammates (or self buffs) just constantly heal and a Chroma can just sit and hold until they reach max buff. If you want the skill to work that way that's totally fine, but it significantly reduces the current risk / reward it has by allowing the player to engage in a more passive behavior for max buffs.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

11 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

it significantly reduces the current risk / reward it has by allowing the player to engage in a more passive behavior for max buffs.

First off immediate means instantly. Don’t know why we would have 2 words for the same thing but that’s how it is. When you say “I immediate called someone” that means you wasted zero time to call someone, you instantly called them. So to claim that the buff would be “immediately” is to claim it would be instant. You even compared it to rhino’s roar which is instant. There’s no build up, no charge, just tap and there is the maxed buff. 
 

Second, sitting back to channeling health and shields into the buff is no different than when dudes used self damage. And the debate is people claiming DE said they are planning to bring it back while others are claiming they aren’t. So I don’t know which story is true. Regardless, as of right now, this addition, not simply a “change”, would replace the self damage option with the only slight difference of not accidentally downing yourself. Most people don’t down themselves so it’s irrelevant at this point to argue in defense of “risk”. 
 

And third, you keep acting as if people are always gonna find some corner out of sight to have the time to channel their health and shields into the vex armor. People used self damage to do what you are claiming would happen with this addition. DE didn’t remove self damage because of chroma. When I blow up containers right after using iron skin, it doesn’t buff my iron skin. When I used self damage with iron skin activated, it buff it up. Therefor DE could’ve easily designed Vex armor to only work from enemy fire much like Iron Skin, but they didn’t. The purpose of the channeling option is to replace self damage. And even if DE were to bring it back, they could choose to keep this addition for players who don’t want to rush their vex armor at the risk of being self downed. And I can already tell you, most people will not wait if self damage is ever brought back. Be nice if DE added self damage back exclusively to chroma, but I doubt they will.

 

DE was able to remove self radiation status. Because dudes were doing that and killing their teammates. If DE can target specific statuses or what damage can affect certain abilities, they could easily fix Chroma. But they haven’t done so. Everybody else wants chroma to be changed into some nuking Frame, I’m suggesting a way to keep him as he has always been. And nobody else is providing an alternative. Some enemies take too long to build up the Vex Armor while others are one shooting me and I’m not the only one having this issue. I stopped using chroma because of that. And every chroma I stumble across either have very low vex armor or they go down way too much. 
 

That is why I’m suggesting this addition. Channeling health and shield would be no different than you throwing explosive kunai at the ground. Except for the fact this addition stops at 1 health point. While the self damage can down you. But most people using chroma know when to stop the self damage, heal themselves, then continue. So your argument against this suggestion would be no different than arguing against chroma’s self damage option. DE fixed chroma before the self damage removal and they never removed the self damage option from chroma’s vex armor. 
 

So at this point I don’t comprehend your argument. Instead of quoting a couple of sentences and sending paragraphs for each quote, can you just skip straight to the point? “Adding this option to Chroma’s Vex Armor would take away the risk for rewards aspect…” and self damage used to do the same for most people. The examples of teamwork I used were actually used when self damage was a thing. 
 

So if you are arguing that Chroma Vex Armor should have always been the way it is now, where only direct damage from enemies can build it, then just say that. That’s what I mean when I say your arguments are irrelevant. As they could easily have been said back before self damage was removed. And at that point we would have to agree to disagree. And when I said you’re arguments be assuming some sort of implications, such as using the word “immediately” which literally means instantly, then yeah, I never said such buffs would be immediate or instant. It would take time to build up and most people aren’t gonna wait that long. And some times they will still go down and their vex armor cancels which could lead to them having to start over while in an inconvenient situation like that already did before the self damage. I already did the math and this option being added to Vex Armor would be no different to most players who were Chroma mains before self damage. This option would help the newbies who just started playing with chroma. Preparation also equals rewards too which even self damaged was prepared for before it was removed. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

On all metrics, long Durations that are capable of being recast before they end are better than Drain abilities in Warframe.

I know you might want the convenience of not having to remember to tap a button once every thirty or forty seconds, but I don't see how adding a nerfed version of Vex is an upgrade that anyone needs on the frame.

And that's before the intentional nerfs you'd add to counter that convenience.

I get that it's an additional option, but as far as I can see, it's a pretty sub-par option that only the people who demand convenience over actual function (read: ones who are missing a bit of frontal cortex) would even think of, let alone want.

Just put on mildly positive Duration and press the button once or twice in a minute.

[Nekomian]

2 hours ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

When you say “I immediate called someone” that means you wasted zero time to call someone, you instantly called them. So to claim that the buff would be “immediately” is to claim it would be instant.

I'm not sure why this is confusing, you even stated "you wasted zero time to call someone". It's literally that: the player wastes zero time to try and build the buff to max, they "immediately press the hold mechanic" in this instance. Not that the buff instantly reaches max, I've tried to explain this in multiple ways now and I'm not sure why this semantic is what is being caught up on.

2 hours ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

Second, sitting back to channeling health and shields into the buff is no different than when dudes used self damage.

Tbf I've never particularly liked the mechanic used in this way, as it's just a glorified "instant buff" in the same manner - it's intended to be built up by taking damage from enemies, but if the player can take some shortcut and bypass that they absolutely will. Instant +800% armor and +600% damage (or higher, I'm just assuming around 250% power strength or so) is, again, just a button press with extra steps. Having the mechanic be like that is fine, but it feels extremely boring or limits your options in weird ways (i.e. bring unmodded AoE weapon to damage yourself just enough to reach max buff) and I never used it on Chroma when it was an option either. At least when the Trinity / Link Castanas self damage build was a thing she had to stand near enemies for it to work properly (not that I particularly liked this either), Chroma would just have to fire at his feet and it feels janky.

2 hours ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

Instead of quoting a couple of sentences and sending paragraphs for each quote, can you just skip straight to the point? “Adding this option to Chroma’s Vex Armor would take away the risk for rewards aspect…” and self damage used to do the same for most people. The examples of teamwork I used were actually used when self damage was a thing. 

I will be quite clear then - I don't think either self damage or the channeling health / shields on hold ability are good for this skill, as they're just methods that players will use to try and reach the maximum buff amount as quickly as possible. The intent of the skill with how it's currently designed is to fight enemies and build buffs while doing so, becoming stronger with the damage you take; I very much like that concept, it gives off berserker vibes and is a high risk vs reward playstyle that I think is unique and can provide a good amount of buffs due to the conditions it imposes.

We can agree to disagree, that's perfectly alright! I do think that if something like this was implemented though (or even if self damage was brought back) that players would tend to use this and self healing methods (from their own abilities or arcanes or teammates) to just hold the button, heal, and repeat until they reach max. I do think that the ability should have some base activation guarantee (maybe granting 25% of the buffs on initial activation) since it feels a bit bad to use an ability and have nothing happen, but given it's a team / range aura buff and has such large values I don't think it should be given an "EZ mode" activation condition in this manner.

I know it struggles with the issue of "low level enemies don't do enough to build the buff" and "high level enemies can one shot you", but maybe having it stack the buffs on something like number of enemies killed or number of player attacks done would be a more active approach to solving this issue rather than a passive one that necessitates sitting still and holding a button. I like the idea of it being something the player has to build actively, and any passive approach or shortcut (like self damage) will absolutely be the alternative players take because "it's easier to just do it this way", defeating the whole purpose of the skill's conditions IMO.

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

On all metrics, long Durations that are capable of being recast before they end are better than Drain abilities in Warframe.

@Birdframe_Prime To be clear - I don't think they're referring to the ability itself being a channeled one, just an "on hold" mechanic that drains health and shields to add to the buffs; it would still have its existing mechanics and duration stats, you'd still need to recast it to keep the duration alive as it currently functions. This initially confused me when reading too because the word "channeling" kept coming up, but I hope that helps clear up any confusion if there was any.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Naroxas44
addressing additional post

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

6 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

I'm not sure why this is confusing, you even stated "you wasted zero time to call someone". It's literally that: the player wastes zero time to try and build the buff to max, they "immediately press the hold mechanic" in this instance. Not that the buff instantly reaches max, I've tried to explain this in multiple ways now and I'm not sure why this semantic is what is being caught up on.

Tbf I've never particularly liked the mechanic used in this way, as it's just a glorified "instant buff" in the same manner - it's intended to be built up by taking damage from enemies, but if the player can take some shortcut and bypass that they absolutely will. Instant +800% armor and +600% damage (or higher, I'm just assuming around 250% power strength or so) is, again, just a button press with extra steps. Having the mechanic be like that is fine, but it feels extremely boring or limits your options in weird ways (i.e. bring unmodded AoE weapon to damage yourself just enough to reach max buff) and I never used it on Chroma when it was an option either. At least when the Trinity / Link Castanas self damage build was a thing she had to stand near enemies for it to work properly (not that I particularly liked this either), Chroma would just have to fire at his feet and it feels janky.

I will be quite clear then - I don't think either self damage or the channeling health / shields on hold ability are good for this skill, as they're just methods that players will use to try and reach the maximum buff amount as quickly as possible. The intent of the skill with how it's currently designed is to fight enemies and build buffs while doing so, becoming stronger with the damage you take; I very much like that concept, it gives off berserker vibes and is a high risk vs reward playstyle that I think is unique and can provide a good amount of buffs due to the conditions it imposes.

We can agree to disagree, that's perfectly alright! I do think that if something like this was implemented though (or even if self damage was brought back) that players would tend to use this and self healing methods (from their own abilities or arcanes or teammates) to just hold the button, heal, and repeat until they reach max. I do think that the ability should have some base activation guarantee (maybe granting 25% of the buffs on initial activation) since it feels a bit bad to use an ability and have nothing happen, but given it's a team / range aura buff and has such large values I don't think it should be given an "EZ mode" activation condition in this manner.

I know it struggles with the issue of "low level enemies don't do enough to build the buff" and "high level enemies can one shot you", but maybe having it stack the buffs on something like number of enemies killed or number of player attacks done would be a more active approach to solving this issue rather than a passive one that necessitates sitting still and holding a button. I like the idea of it being something the player has to build actively, and any passive approach or shortcut (like self damage) will absolutely be the alternative players take because "it's easier to just do it this way", defeating the whole purpose of the skill's conditions IMO.

@Birdframe_Prime To be clear - I don't think they're referring to the ability itself being a channeled one, just an "on hold" mechanic that drains health and shields to add to the buffs; it would still have its existing mechanics and duration stats, you'd still need to recast it to keep the duration alive as it currently functions. This initially confused me when reading too because the word "channeling" kept coming up, but I hope that helps clear up any confusion if there was any.

The main reason I disagree with keeping chroma as he currently is, it’s that the buff ain’t good enough for the type of high level missions DE has us playing. Steel Path enemies are extremely tough for their level, it’s even more annoying that they aren’t giving you that much more affinity. Example, a level 100 is magically 5x tougher than a level 50, and yet the affinity amount is maybe 2x. That’s bad enough, but when enemies can easily one shot you even with a maxed out vex armor buff, then all that “risk” is just not worth it as you’d gain nothing. I use to see a chroma about as often as I’ve seen other frames. Now I only see chroma like once per 100 missions if that. 
 

Some levels aren’t damaging you enough to build up the vex armor quickly which most people don’t have time for. While others can one shot you even with the vex armor which makes you want to avoid all damage at all times. Removing self damage from chroma and not replacing it with an alternative has made chroma way less popular, almost non-existent from my perspective, and it removed so much teamwork that could utilized with chroma.  I used Nidus to buff up chroma then used him to buff up Rhino while standing near chroma to created an iron skin of 249,000. One guy tries to belittle such accomplishment because he used a void defense laser which is limited to that one area while mine can be used anywhere. And that was with less/weaker than I have now. We were able to annihilate the Wolf of Saturn Six using that combo. While others complained he was way too tough, we made him look like an average boss.

 

Now chroma is weaker, less popular, almost completely useless and too much of a burden to use. He’s become too much of a liability at this point. Every Circuit or steel path mission, dudes using chroma kept getting downed over and over. And those were just the few chroma users I even encountered after doing the circuit a few hundred times. 
 

If you have no problem using him as he is, then good for you. But as of right now the statistics from my experience the past year shows he’s almost non-existent. 

[Nekomian]

47 minutes ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

The main reason I disagree with keeping chroma as he currently is, it’s that the buff ain’t good enough for the type of high level missions DE has us playing. Steel Path enemies are extremely tough for their level, it’s even more annoying that they aren’t giving you that much more affinity. Example, a level 100 is magically 5x tougher than a level 50, and yet the affinity amount is maybe 2x. That’s bad enough, but when enemies can easily one shot you even with a maxed out vex armor buff, then all that “risk” is just not worth it as you’d gain nothing.

I think this is more symptomatic of armor + health EHP at higher levels just not scaling as well as shield gating or abilities with DR or invulnerability, this isn't really unique to chroma. His buffs are still quite good, and can keep him alive against up to level 500 enemies in my experience, which covers like 99% of the content players would interact with (endless endurance runs / SP Circuit being the only instances where these high levels may even show up).

I'm not even saying keep him as is, just that something more active / less passive would be nice to add to his kit instead if he absolutely must have some new method to stack buffs; he's always going to eventually hit a plateau where he can get one shot from health due to how armor scales (inaros has this exact same issue too), but he does still have shields to gate with and can keep existing buffs active with long durations. I'm not disagreeing with the idea that there should be some other way to stack the buffs from Vex Armor without taking damage, just that I think it should be more active gameplay than "shoot self for buff" or "stand still to drain HP / Shield on hold for buff".

Ideally the ability could encourage a feedback loop of getting kills or attacking to increase buffs, and add additional ones that way - as an example, every kill adding 2% DR that decays over time, or maybe damage instance done to him adding some % of DR encouraging him to stay in the fight longer. There's quite a few things they could do to increase survivability, but they all require reworking it to some degree simply due to how armor falls off at some point. I'm not sure if DE considers his kit worth reworking if it can handle most content, but I honestly don't know.

1 hour ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

Now chroma is weaker, less popular, almost completely useless and too much of a burden to use. He’s become too much of a liability at this point. Every Circuit or steel path mission, dudes using chroma kept getting downed over and over. And those were just the few chroma users I even encountered after doing the circuit a few hundred times.

Since his change from multiplicative to additive damage he is much weaker yes, but I would not say completely useless or a burden. I still pick him for Steel Path Circuit and do just fine, even up to level 1000 (decrees help a lot with survivability, tbf). According to the most recent stats too (https://www.warframe.com/2022stats), he's used more often (specifically his prime) than trinity, vauban, zephyr, frost, ember, limbo, equinox, atlas, etc.

I think seeing him less often is just more indicative of players tending to stick to the same frames, like Wukong, Saryn, Mesa, Octavia, Nekros, etc. I'd like to see his kit improved a bit too for survivability at higher levels, but that's honestly outside the scope of just vex armor since it would require some significant ability rework.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

I've originally agree with this because I hate to have to recast abilities, especially if they don't have a clearly and neatly visible HUD (like Citrine does for example), but my survival can depend on them. However, I turned my opinion around because Chroma needs a lot of energy. So much, that sometimes Arcane Energize isn't enough and I need to use a consumable, which wouldn't work with a channeled ability.

[Nekomian]

Just now, (PSN)Sentiel said:

which wouldn't work with a channeled ability

Just to clarify, I'll repost this for you:

8 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

To be clear - I don't think they're referring to the ability itself being a channeled one, just an "on hold" mechanic that drains health and shields to add to the buffs; it would still have its existing mechanics and duration stats, you'd still need to recast it to keep the duration alive as it currently functions. This initially confused me when reading too because the word "channeling" kept coming up, but I hope that helps clear up any confusion if there was any.

They can correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not think they want the ability itself to be channeled / require energy channeling. They're referring to an on hold mechanic that drains HP and shields to increase the buffs, in addition to the existing "on damage" mechanic from activating the ability.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

3 minutes ago, Naroxas44 said:

Just to clarify, I'll repost this for you:

They can correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not think they want the ability itself to be channeled / require energy channeling. They're referring to an on hold mechanic that drains HP and shields to increase the buffs, in addition to the existing "on damage" mechanic from activating the ability.

Ah, then I misunderstood.

Well, as long as it's tied to an augment or made otherwise in a way that also preserves the current way the ability works then I'm fine with it.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

10 hours ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

Ah, then I misunderstood.

Well, as long as it's tied to an augment or made otherwise in a way that also preserves the current way the ability works then I'm fine with it.

It’s an addition. The current original mechanic is you just tap the button to activate and let enemies damage you. I’m asking for them to ADD the option to hold the button to channel health and shields into the Vex Armor albeit at a much larger cost than taking damage, if DE doesn’t want the maxed buffs to be that easy to obtain this way. Nothing is removed. I even gave an example of if the original mechanic required 300 default health to reach 100% maxed buff and if this ADDITION required 300 of default health to achieve 25% of maxed buff. If you channeled 50% of 300 default health towards vex armor(12.5% buff) but took damage by enemies to the remaining 50% of default health(50% buff), then the buff would reach a total of 62.5% of the max. Until health is restored and you can continue. Don’t know how this example wasn’t proof that I’m not suggesting it replaces the original mechanic, this suggestion would be an add on. Since self damage is no longer an option, this would be a replacement for that method. But the original converted damage to vex armor mechanic would still remain. 
 

The other guy saying something about infinite duration, I have no idea what he is going on about as I never made such suggestion. Maybe it was a glitch but my Vex Armor can reach 888% Fury but when I didn’t reach the max soon enough, for some reason the damage I took wouldn’t make the current buff go any higher. Like there’s 2 durations, one for the ability itself and the other for the damage conversion. I simply stated that this channeling option won’t have that limited duration and would only be limited to the duration of the vex armor itself itself. 
 

I don’t know how I can make it any clearer. I tried to give as much details as possible so that people wouldn’t misunderstand the concept. I used the word ADDITION to describe it so that people would/should know that it’s not a change or removal of the original mechanic. Since the original requires just tapping the ability, this addition would be a press and hold. If people don’t want to channel health and shields, they could still just tap the ability and run out into the horde of enemies like they currently already do. This suggestion simply gives an alternative option to reach the goal. 

[Nekomian]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)chris1pat8twins said:

I don’t know how I can make it any clearer. I tried to give as much details as possible so that people wouldn’t misunderstand the concept.

I think it's just people are reading "channeling" and thinking you're talking about changing the ability itself to be a "channeled" one, which is why I initially suggested changing it to something like "On Hold Mechanic" and "HP / Shield Drain" instead. I had to reread the post a second time fully to get what you were going for too.

The ability similar to this / that was referenced, Inaros' Scarab Swarm, even says "health drain" and "offering his Health", not "channeling" - in the context of Warframe, people assume channeling is a "press once to activate" with constant drain mechanic, like the wiki link I included. I know the word itself should read just fine and other games use it in this instance, but it just can cause some confusion here is all.

[Birdframe_Prime]

20 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

To be clear - I don't think they're referring to the ability itself being a channeled one, just an "on hold" mechanic that drains health and shields to add to the buffs; it would still have its existing mechanics and duration stats, you'd still need to recast it to keep the duration alive as it currently functions. This initially confused me when reading too because the word "channeling" kept coming up, but I hope that helps clear up any confusion if there was any.

Then that's just Inaros' 4 with more buffs for less cost. Which is downright ridiculous.