Can we please get better rewards for steel path survival/defense?

[Teekiru]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

I think a solo mission should give a bonus, since you're solo it's harder and more time consuming.

I mean solo vs group is about the same difficulty. More people mean more mobs spawning in and what have you. I just feel there is only so much you can do with steel essence.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

10 hours ago, (XBOX)Lady Ukita said:

Meanwhile, Circuit.

I don't know what you're getting at.

Circuit has a rapid ramp up. The rewards are the same offered, right? How long before you start complaining about different, "meaningful" rewards after you've maxed the arcanes and adapters?

[(XBOX)Lady Ukita]

3 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I don't know what you're getting at.

Circuit has a rapid ramp up. The rewards are the same offered, right? How long before you start complaining about different, "meaningful" rewards after you've maxed the arcanes and adapters?

You said DE doesn't encourage extended gameplay sessions, Circuit rewards extended gameplay sessions the way it is designed. The amount of exp you get scales until stage 5, and continuing onwards will make farming the rewards considerably faster than breaking it up into smaller sessions. There's also the fact of your loadout being randomized, so if you do happen to get the ideal loadout then it'll make more sense to run a longer session due to the unlikelihood of having another effective loadout in the future, further exacerbated in the Steel Path. Also decrees: the longer you play circuit the more powerful you get, which in some cases makes longer runs easier despite the heightened enemy level.

There's also the case of endless void fissure missions applying a scaling booster for affinity, credit, and resources the longer you stay; which makes longer sessions more ideal if you're planning to farm in bulk. If DE didn't want to encourage long/endurance runs, then the amount of exp you gained from circuit would've been equal per stage, or endless void fissures wouldn't apply an incremental booster per rotation. Then again, it's hard to take what DE says at face value when their actions are often contradictory.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

On 2023-08-27 at 12:15 PM, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I don't know what you're getting at.

Circuit has a rapid ramp up. The rewards are the same offered, right? How long before you start complaining about different, "meaningful" rewards after you've maxed the arcanes and adapters?

how about "meaningful" "reward" how about meaningful missions, objectives, story, gameplay...    oh wait anyone above mastery rank 14 has done that

So repeatable missions wait we beat them, objectives wait we do those for rewards, story long gone long comin, gameplay experimental filled yet empty

Now what? Mastery rank.. Did that didn't need to anyway.

Now what? Lower my mods to play missions "fairly", either we are always going to beat that exterminate, capture, spy, rescue, mobile defence, hijack or inevitably lose that endless survival, defence, interception, disruption, defection

      ?

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

how about "meaningful" "reward" how about meaningful missions, objectives, story, gameplay...    oh wait anyone above mastery rank 14 has done that

So repeatable missions wait we beat them, objectives wait we do those for rewards, story long gone long comin, gameplay experimental filled yet empty

Now what? Mastery rank.. Did that didn't need to anyway.

Now what? Lower my mods to play missions "fairly", either we are always going to beat that exterminate, capture, spy, rescue, mobile defence, hijack or inevitably lose that endless survival, defence, interception, disruption, defection

      ?

I have wondered what a build-crafting third person shooter could offer someone who’s not interested in either of those aspects.

A meaningful reward can vary between players depending on what they want to do with one new component that gets mixed into our builds and loadouts and where they want to take it to see how the fight plays out, but a player’s gotta be willing to use it, and in a game where power comes with a literal cost even if there’s common ‘wisdom’ saying that there’s no cost involved and that it’s free, experimenting means that at some point there’s going to be both increased build variety and increased gameplay variety simply because one has to give up the power to completely turn the game off in order to really explore options for build and playstyle.

I’ve often wondered why people do things like treat the air capsules like they’re not meant to be used or treat endless modes like they’re not meant to kick us out eventually or that there’s not meant to be risk anywhere in the game and that we shouldn’t be dying at the highest level of content; seems strange and out of touch

Edited August 28, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I have wondered what a build-crafting third person shooter could offer someone who’s not interested in either of those aspects.

A meaningful reward can vary between players depending on what they want to do with one new component that gets mixed into our builds and loadouts and where they want to take it to see how the fight plays out, but a player’s gotta be willing to use it, and in a game where power comes with a literal cost even if there’s common ‘wisdom’ saying that there’s no cost involved and that it’s free, experimenting means that at some point there’s going to be both increased build variety and increased gameplay variety simply because one has to give up the power to completely turn the game off in order to really explore options for build and playstyle.

I’ve often wondered why people do things like treat the air capsules like they’re not meant to be used or treat endless modes like they’re not meant to kick us out eventually or that there’s not meant to be risk anywhere in the game and that we shouldn’t be dying at the highest level of content; seems strange and out of touch

Im not specifying that the game runs out or similar like that

I and most Casuals to Hardcore players would appreciate something like you Obtain item or most things and in 5 minutes that item is secure in Players inventory whether they beat the mission or fail, Resources, Credits, Vitus drops, Steel essence drops, Mods

Not for the rewards but so i can go up to wave 50 Defence Earth without considering that as a reason to exit the mission, or a Wave 12 disruption

Archon shards, or objective exclusive like Khal stock, Nakak pearls, The 5 Steel essence alerts would be Evac to secure

Just get that out of the back of Players heads and now losing isn't about the Inventory but the Actual Revives your supposed to care about.

Wouldn't that be a better reward for endless or in general like over/open worlds

Edited August 28, 2023 by (XBOX)Mastermitchel89

[Skoomaseller]

On 2023-08-26 at 1:06 AM, MaxTunnerX said:

Thats the warframe mafia for you. Lotus gets 1 mill, the lone operative gets 997k, and you get the 3k.

Nef Anyo is just The Lotus in a weird bodysuit.

[(NSW)Greybones]

22 minutes ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

Im not specifying that the game runs out or similar like that

I and most Casuals to Hardcore players would appreciate something like you Obtain item or most things and in 5 minutes that item is secure in Players inventory whether they beat the mission or fail, Resources, Credits, Vitus drops, Steel essence drops, Mods

Not for the rewards but so i can go up to wave 50 Defence Earth without considering that as a reason to exit the mission, or a Wave 12 disruption

Archon shards, or objective exclusive like Khal stock, Nakak pearls, The 5 Steel essence alerts would be Evac to secure

Just get that out of the back of Players heads and now losing isn't about the Inventory but the Actual Revives your supposed to care about.

Wouldn't that be a better reward for endless or in general like over/open worlds

I’m… struggling to parse what you’re saying, but it sounds like you want some sort of guaranteed rewards in 5 minutes, though again those rewards will vary in value depending on whether a player even wants to use them or not.

I think your idea of a reward is vastly different to mine, and not necessarily from a “I can make a different build for gameplay purposes” perspective. Why… would you want to go up to wave 50 defense…? Is that a common thing that players want to do? I find it difficult to go too far beyond the minimum unique rotation, where even if I can build for it I don’t tend to because just sitting in one mission for ages loses my interest and getting to the point where there’s gameplay takes too long if I’m wrecking everything else along the way, and instead I just take the build higher if possible. 5 minutes is often too short for the game to really get a chance to breath when fighting through the various tiles, but 50 waves sounds way too long.

I think you’re also saying that losing shouldn’t be about the lost inventory but instead about… revives. Which is a little odd since a) the game already gives us more chances to revive the more we unlock, and b) most players barely know what a revive looks like because they’re sticking to a few builds that are as low-risk as possible for the missions they do specifically to further avoid the chance of death or failure. Loss of inventory can be quite rare because the game already gives us things like gearwheel items and school effects, and players are still afraid to branch out into alternative builds and playstyles that may introduce a little risk to either themselves or the mission objective

I dunno. I’m pretty sure I misunderstood something. A better reward is, as far as I can tell, already presented in a fine way; you get new things, you use those things to get new things

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2023-08-25 at 11:49 PM, Teekiru said:

I absolutely despise the fact that there are no "improved" rewards for steel path "endless" missions.

Define "improved rewards"

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2023-08-26 at 4:12 AM, (PSN)ARC_Paroe said:

Grineer have enough armor that they just soak 99% of your damage, requiring stuff like slash procs to ignore it. 

In other games, this is the moment where you need debuff role instead of all DPS which we already have several. Unairu bomb, tharros strike, sonic boom augment, etc and they're made permanent now

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

56 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I’m… struggling to parse what you’re saying, but it sounds like you want some sort of guaranteed rewards in 5 minutes, though again those rewards will vary in value depending on whether a player even wants to use them or not.

I think your idea of a reward is vastly different to mine, and not necessarily from a “I can make a different build for gameplay purposes” perspective. Why… would you want to go up to wave 50 defense…? Is that a common thing that players want to do? I find it difficult to go too far beyond the minimum unique rotation, where even if I can build for it I don’t tend to because just sitting in one mission for ages loses my interest and getting to the point where there’s gameplay takes too long if I’m wrecking everything else along the way, and instead I just take the build higher if possible. 5 minutes is often too short for the game to really get a chance to breath when fighting through the various tiles, but 50 waves sounds way too long.

I think you’re also saying that losing shouldn’t be about the lost inventory but instead about… revives. Which is a little odd since a) the game already gives us more chances to revive the more we unlock, and b) most players barely know what a revive looks like because they’re sticking to a few builds that are as low-risk as possible for the missions they do specifically to further avoid the chance of death or failure. Loss of inventory can be quite rare because the game already gives us things like gearwheel items and school effects, and players are still afraid to branch out into alternative builds and playstyles that may introduce a little risk to either themselves or the mission objective

I dunno. I’m pretty sure I misunderstood something. A better reward is, as far as I can tell, already presented in a fine way; you get new things, you use those things to get new things

If you don't understand then there is no point in explaining so

Would you rather Gameplay or Farming

[(NSW)Greybones]

25 minutes ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

If you don't understand then there is no point in explaining so

Would you rather Gameplay or Farming

Gameplay. I’ve tried booting up the game to farm and I’ve tried booting up to play, and the gameplay blows the farming out of the water while still giving things I was going to get anyways through farming. Plus I’m now using everything including the stuff I was originally using, instead of chasing the grind using a few optimal choices all the time which inevitably got stale and led to some confusing gamedesign interpretations

[Teekiru]

8 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Define "improved rewards"

Anything not offered for normal missions, like if i do a SP survival or defense i feel like the 3k credit bonus is just meh. Heck at this point I would just be happy with more endo rewards as opposed to credits that way I can actually use the endo.

 

Just seems kind of "lazy" (I know people will disagree because thats the internet for you) that the only differentiating factor between SP and Normal is literally the enemy difficulty (armor, level health). The added mod drop chance is always nice too but its the same dang mods you get doing normal.

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

10 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

In other games, this is the moment where you need debuff role instead of all DPS which we already have several. Unairu bomb, tharros strike, sonic boom augment, etc and they're made permanent now

Other games are slower paced and centered around cooldowns. In warframe, you need Corrosive Firal to comfortably clear steel path, or some way to ignore armor entirely. 

[TheArmchairThinker]

7 hours ago, Teekiru said:

Anything not offered for normal missions

Steel essence, arcanes, adapter, steel path exclusive cosmetics, umbra forma, those are impossible to get from normal missions so what else do you want?

8 hours ago, Teekiru said:

Just seems kind of "lazy" (I know people will disagree because thats the internet for you) that the only differentiating factor between SP and Normal is literally the enemy difficulty (armor, level health). The added mod drop chance is always nice too but its the same dang mods you get doing normal.

Because steel path wasn't made for rewards in mind, it was made for those who want "challenge" against tougher enemies without spending hours before they start demanding rewards for "more effort"

6 hours ago, (PSN)ARC_Paroe said:

Other games are slower paced and centered around cooldowns. In warframe, you need Corrosive Firal to comfortably clear steel path, or some way to ignore armor entirely. 

 

16 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Unairu bomb, tharros strike, sonic boom augment, etc

Which part that you didn't understand?

[(XBOX)SwiftBMF]

On 2023-08-25 at 5:49 PM, Teekiru said:

I absolutely despise the fact that there are no "improved" rewards for steel path "endless" missions. I cannot count how many times I have done a survival or defense and almost every 5 waves/minutes we get a whopping 3000 credits. After the first planet I feel the rewards should be improved its kind of a slap in the face when you do something and Lotus tells you "we could not have done this without you" then proceeds to give us 3k credits lol.

Youre a braver than me daring to come on the forums & say something like this.

Youre asking for it really arnt you,not even read the comments yet but I know what most will say.

"Stfu SE isnt meant for better rewards its a gear check & how dare you say anything critical of DE...How Dare You.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

9 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Because steel path wasn't made for rewards in mind, it was made for those who want "challenge" against tougher enemies without spending hours before they start demanding rewards for "more effort"

9 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

18 hours ago, Teekiru said:

Anything not offered for normal missions

Steel essence, arcanes, adapter, steel path exclusive cosmetics, umbra forma, those are impossible to get from normal missions so what else do you want?

Contradictory Arguementations don't sit well

And since Archons are on the basic same level as Steel path then that means you should not get Archon shards or Sortie rewards because statement one

9 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Because steel path wasn't made for rewards in mind, it was made for those who want "challenge" against tougher enemies without spending hours before they start demanding rewards for "more effort"

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by (XBOX)Mastermitchel89

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2023-08-29 at 7:23 PM, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

Contradictory Arguementations don't sit well

What part of it being contradictory? It was the usual pattern of "we want challenge" and claim of no rewards needed so it's optional before a bunch of "there's no reward" complaints start appearing with demand for exclusive rewards to brag about

[Lilybun]

On 2023-08-28 at 6:36 PM, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

Not for the rewards but so i can go up to wave 50 Defence Earth without considering that as a reason to exit the mission

Not to mention it makes absolutely 0 sense narratively that we can leave the cryopod to die between waves for full rewards but if we see it die that's it, we lose everything.

Would be cool if it worked like ESO in the sense that your punishment for failure is that the mission ends, not that you lose everything. That way you aren't encouraged to hop off the moment you hit the rotation you're farming either.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Lilybun

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

6 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

What part of it being contradictory? It was the usual pattern of "we want challenge" and claim of no rewards needed so it's optional before a bunch of "there's no reward" complaints start appearing with demand for exclusive rewards to brag about

You mention the steel path exclusive drops and rewards

On 2023-08-29 at 12:29 PM, TheArmchairThinker said:

Steel essence, arcanes, adapter, steel path exclusive cosmetics, umbra forma, those are impossible to get from normal missions so what else do you want?

Then you said they aren't the point of steel path and instead said challenge was the point

On 2023-08-29 at 12:29 PM, TheArmchairThinker said:

Because steel path wasn't made for rewards in mind, it was made for those who want "challenge" against tougher enemies without spending hours before they start demanding rewards for "more effort"

So i compared steel path with sorties in which Archon hunt implied by DE to be the steel path version of sorties, and i used your Arguementations to make a sound solution

On 2023-08-29 at 10:23 PM, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

And since Archons are on the basic same level as Steel path then that means you should not get Archon shards or Sortie rewards because statement one

You requested that loot is not the point yet Warframe consistently finds ways of making players farm loot usually everywhere including steel path

The point of this thread was more supposed to say "why am i getting miniscule rewards/loot on a mode that intends to reward the player in someways (resource drop rate, mod drop rate) but not things that take up space on loot table like Credits or Endo

The solution is literally just up it from 3k to 30k or make a steel path loot table

 

1 hour ago, Lilybun said:

Not to mention it makes absolutely 0 sense narratively that we can leave the cryopod to die between waves for full rewards but if we see it die that's it, we lose everything.

Would be cool if it worked like ESO in the sense that your punishment for failure is that the mission ends, not that you lose everything. That way you aren't encouraged to hop off the moment you hit the rotation you're farming either.

Basically an answer for Farming which would allow players to try going higher in difficulty without being concerned about loot loss.

Note a difficulty isn't challenging or difficult if the answer returns to "This is becoming more unlikely that i will make it to wave 15 time to leave" instead of pushing higher

[TheArmchairThinker]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

 

Because it wasn't made with those rewards initially, purely to bring your best build and the next pattern is easily guessed, people demanding better rewards because steel path "takes more effort". It's always like that, at first it's just for testing your build and then start demanding to be rewarded despite the request to make it not mandatory 

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

4 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Because it wasn't made with those rewards initially, purely to bring your best build and the next pattern is easily guessed, people demanding better rewards because steel path "takes more effort". It's always like that, at first it's just for testing your build and then start demanding to be rewarded despite the request to make it not mandatory 

then why add Archon shards or steel essence 

Not everyone plays Halo 2 LASO for fun

Or maybe you just don't read properly

 

Warframe is a farm game, lets remove all mods all drops all loot, no one would play the "challenging" star chart because now its Rhinoframe because he would be the only survivor of this nerf, oh wait no loot or drops, time to suck it up and suffer with your first choice, mag excalibur and volt, what next, the lack of damage on your default paris or mk1 braton, too bad their miniscule damage only goes to lvl 15 before lacking damage.

Now explain how this challenge argument was supposed to go, without loot or drops? Or is it just something that "Hardcore" players could just ignore

[(NSW)Greybones]

7 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Because it wasn't made with those rewards initially, purely to bring your best build and the next pattern is easily guessed, people demanding better rewards because steel path "takes more effort". It's always like that, at first it's just for testing your build and then start demanding to be rewarded despite the request to make it not mandatory 

Certainly wouldn’t mind Steel Path rewards being made available outside of SP where there’s more options to use and better balance. Before SP I remember players asking for and discussing a place to take their min-maxed builds, and saying things like they were fine without any serious rewards to prevent players who weren’t interested in min-maxing feeling like they were missing out

[TheArmchairThinker]

20 hours ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

Now explain how this challenge argument was supposed to go, without loot or drops? Or is it just something that "Hardcore" players could just ignore

 

17 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Before SP I remember players asking for and discussing a place to take their min-maxed builds, and saying things like they were fine without any serious rewards to prevent players who weren’t interested in min-maxing feeling like they were missing out

If you still don't understand, I don't know what to tell you

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

3 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

If you still don't understand, I don't know what to tell you

If you don't care about the rewards then whats the point of arguing about it

Atleast mention public squads or something that would lead a point

If challenge is your point then this argument doesn't help the players that do care about this thread

 

Its like players asking for companion invincibility or making them a decoration instead of actually fixing the issue, Dying and being inactive for 85% of the mission