We need "Parkour Duel" boss fights

[ByroSphere]

Been playing this game for over half a decade now, and something I always loved, and still do, is the mobility. The fact that you can not just zoom past levels with speed, but also wall jump, bullet jump, slide... all that stuff has always been awesome as soon as they became a feature. Yet, one thing that I always felt was kinda boring, is that the enemies dont really challenge you in that department at all.

Now, it can be cool to slaughter hundreds of grunts that are basically just giant ants with paintball turrets.... But when the bosses, the guys that are supposed to be a threat to you, are also just grounded opponents whom mostly just tank everything you throw at them, whenever they dont just teleport away and/or hide in their invulnerability frames.... It doesnt feel all that satisfying to fight them.

Something that could be very cool is if we got bosses that rivals us in moves, not being hard to kill cause they got a ridiculous amount of health and obscene levels of shields, but have them actively dodge your attacks, making it so that the player actually has to put effort in aiming and hitting them.... While also have more obstacle rich arenas that encourages lots of parkour!

Seriously, the mobility is the best thing about Warframe, yet most boss levels barely make use of it at all, as you usually are just thrown into big plane area against a relatively slow moving foe who makes no effort in evading the players attacks beyond I-frames, and I find that to be a shame.

[(PSN)IdoThea]

4 minutes ago, ByroSphere said:

making it so that the player actually has to put effort in aiming and hitting them....

Cyanex go brrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

[ByroSphere]

1 minute ago, (PSN)IdoThea said:

Cyanex go brrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

Sounds cool but imagine, what if the boss knew how to dodge?

[Chewarette]

You'd need a new faction for that though. Grineer are not known to be agile, Corpus are relying on Tech, infestation well... they're not here to think either. Sentients a probably a mix of tech and brute force I'd say

So unless the boss you're talking about is a giant Kavat, we need a faction that's more into ninja/close-combat stuff

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

9 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

You'd need a new faction for that though. Grineer are not known to be agile, Corpus are relying on Tech, infestation well... they're not here to think either. Sentients a probably a mix of tech and brute force I'd say

So unless the boss you're talking about is a giant Kavat, we need a faction that's more into ninja/close-combat stuff

the only faction that can dodge that comes to mind is stalker's faction. so mayb e a stalker acolyte style boss?

[ByroSphere]

@Chewarette

Dont think you need a brand new faction, just new enemies and creative environments. Like, Could easily see the grineer take a page out of Balteus from Armored Core 6 and just have some sort of Grineer Ace equipped with heavy amounts of jetpacks, pulling air manuevers all over the place, whilst showering the area with homing missiles that  you may dodge with your parkour skills.

 

The corpus could likewise have a similar flier, if not new types of Zanuka that actively avoids  the player's aim, with them dashing and wall climbing around. Only standing still when they are about to perform some telegraphed attacks or something around those lines.

All factions practically can do this really.

[ByroSphere]

@(NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika

Kela De Thaym, Tyl Regor and The Hyena pack were also some agile enemies that oculd canonically perform, some acrobatic stunts.... 

The main thing they are lacking, is an active ability to dodge your attacks, as they mostly just rush towards you when not shooting their ranged arsenal or hiding behind Iframes.

[MaxTunnerX]

1 hour ago, ByroSphere said:

Been playing this game for over half a decade now, and something I always loved, and still do, is the mobility. The fact that you can not just zoom past levels with speed, but also wall jump, bullet jump, slide... all that stuff has always been awesome as soon as they became a feature. Yet, one thing that I always felt was kinda boring, is that the enemies dont really challenge you in that department at all.

Now, it can be cool to slaughter hundreds of grunts that are basically just giant ants with paintball turrets.... But when the bosses, the guys that are supposed to be a threat to you, are also just grounded opponents whom mostly just tank everything you throw at them, whenever they dont just teleport away and/or hide in their invulnerability frames.... It doesnt feel all that satisfying to fight them.

Something that could be very cool is if we got bosses that rivals us in moves, not being hard to kill cause they got a ridiculous amount of health and obscene levels of shields, but have them actively dodge your attacks, making it so that the player actually has to put effort in aiming and hitting them.... While also have more obstacle rich arenas that encourages lots of parkour!

Seriously, the mobility is the best thing about Warframe, yet most boss levels barely make use of it at all, as you usually are just thrown into big plane area against a relatively slow moving foe who makes no effort in evading the players attacks beyond I-frames, and I find that to be a shame.

Ropalolyst already does this.

[ByroSphere]

@MaxTunnerX

You mean fly really slowly without bothering to dodge your attacks, in an open area where you dont have much places to parkour off, all the while having very high amount of health and shields, on top anoying I-frame moments?

Yes, Ropalolyst does, but that's only the things I dont want in a boss fight.

 

What I want are bosses that are mobile, difficult not because they take forever to deal damage, but because it takes effort and skill to hit them in the first place.  You know, an actual engaging battle.

[MaxTunnerX]

13 minutes ago, ByroSphere said:

@MaxTunnerX

You mean fly really slowly without bothering to dodge your attacks, in an open area where you dont have much places to parkour off, all the while having very high amount of health and shields, on top anoying I-frame moments?

Yes, Ropalolyst does, but that's only the things I dont want in a boss fight.

 

What I want are bosses that are mobile, difficult not because they take forever to deal damage, but because it takes effort and skill to hit them in the first place.  You know, an actual engaging battle.

Ropalolyst literally dodges your attacks so you have to time them right. Besides, your idea of bosses would never work because a weak boss that is agile is no match for tenno arsenal. It will be just like sargeant except he will not be standing on the floor but on the wall when you one shot kill him. The reason many bosses have immunity phases is that they stand no chance under any circumstances without them. just look at sarge, phorid and hyena pack. You can finish the mission and not even notice it was a boss fight because they die just like any other enemy. And Im not complaining btw, these are my favorite bosses.

Edited September 1, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

How about this? Just an idea I had. 

A Steel Path optional Invasion mini boss for Capture and Exterminate missions. Basically you get a filter effect and message that "Insert name" has spawned. Separate timer from Acolytes as to not interfere with that. This new mini boss will be optional, because... well I actually worry many people may not be able to or desire an actually competent enemy, that can parkour well, or be as agile as some of us may want. So then you make them a bit like the Treasurer, in that you can totally ignore them, if you don't think they are rewarding enough. 

So you make this optional mini boss, well you can have variations for fun. Like a Grineer version can be a bit like Executioner Garesh (Dog Days version) crossed with a Grineer Manic, make them evasive, and program them to wall run, bullet jump, slide around the environment. Put them on a timer, because they aren't necessarily trying to kill you, all the time, sometimes they are just their to threaten you, and entice you to try and catch and kill them. Almost mockingly. Like if you have AOE weapons or certain Warframe abilities, they'll straight up start parkouring to get away from you. In which you can either try to keep up or ignore them. If you do want to kill them? Give their limbs damage stats, so you can't outright kill them in one shot, you have to first destroy their legs and arms, (which will slow them and make them less agile). So basically one AOE attack against them, will only destroy one limb at a time. Alternatively if you can land a headshot they will take significant damage, making them vulnerable to killing. 

Basically I am just trying to think of ways, so that we don't just one shot them or Mesa (100 other abilities) them to death or blend them to death with melee. 

Then you basically just give them decent rewards to encourage some of us to try kill them, including running around the map, and going to areas we normally might not (some tile sets have a lot of secret and off the path areas they could go to. People who don't like parkour can just ignore them though. Oh and give them a waypoint marker, but let them use stealth too. Corpus can have a version. New type of Dax enemies could be a good candidate too. As for rewards, shrugs. Maybe 50% chance to drop a Riven Sliver or Steel Essence, plus guaranteed Energy Orb, Ammo Drop, Health. 

Basically I too like the idea of something that challenges us as far as movement abilities. Some enemies do use zip lines etc, I can't remember, but wasn't there an enemy that could wall run too, and some can bullet jump? Like in Dog Days they can right, I am like... 80 percent sure (my sight ain't the best, maybe its just my allies...), but a few problems. 1. Being we are pretty OP, 2. If you make the enemy too OP, because we are OP, well... not everyone is as OP as some, and thus you either have the people that want more of a challenge happy but a bunch of people annoyed, or you get Manics, Stalker etc which aren't much of a threat. So its. a bit of a balancing act to try incorporate. 

Anyway just random ideas I had, may not be popular lol. 

[ByroSphere]

@MaxTunnerX

The Ropalolyst is still a pretty big target that is easy to hit though. Besiodes, my main issue with it, is the arena itself, there is not much room for parkour in an open field, with it also being very far from your range... It's simply not fun to fight.

Also, I never said anything about the boss needing to be weak, HP, Shield and Armor levels should of course be adjusted to be a challenge for respective levels. If anything, I just would much prefer if it only had enough hit points for something like a 5 min boss fight, instead of it being an encounter that takes 10 or 30 minutes to beat.

[MaxTunnerX]

9 minutes ago, ByroSphere said:

@MaxTunnerX

The Ropalolyst is still a pretty big target that is easy to hit though. Besiodes, my main issue with it, is the arena itself, there is not much room for parkour in an open field, with it also being very far from your range... It's simply not fun to fight.

Also, I never said anything about the boss needing to be weak, HP, Shield and Armor levels should of course be adjusted to be a challenge for respective levels. If anything, I just would much prefer if it only had enough hit points for something like a 5 min boss fight, instead of it being an encounter that takes 10 or 30 minutes to beat.

No, you asked for a weak boss. Because without invulnerability phases, the boss will automatically be weak. Just like you cant survive in SP without immunity, the bosses cant survive tenno without those. If you ever buffed the bosses so they wouldnt be weak, they would have so much HP/armor/shields that the players would literally kill you for ever making up this idea as it would be so long and frustrating. You can already have long and frustrating with the other bosses, no need to make a new one with added difficulty of parkour. The game would be better served with bosses that are DEFEATED BY PARKOUR (not by your damage). Just like nihil is for example, except in different tilesets and such.

Edited September 1, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[ByroSphere]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

How about this? Just an idea I had. 

A Steel Path optional Invasion mini boss for Capture and Exterminate missions. Basically you get a filter effect and message that "Insert name" has spawned. Separate timer from Acolytes as to not interfere with that. This new mini boss will be optional, because... well I actually worry many people may not be able to or desire an actually competent enemy, that can parkour well, or be as agile as some of us may want. So then you make them a bit like the Treasurer, in that you can totally ignore them, if you don't think they are rewarding enough. 

So you make this optional mini boss, well you can have variations for fun. Like a Grineer version can be a bit like Executioner Garesh (Dog Days version) crossed with a Grineer Manic, make them evasive, and program them to wall run, bullet jump, slide around the environment. Put them on a timer, because they aren't necessarily trying to kill you, all the time, sometimes they are just their to threaten you, and entice you to try and catch and kill them. Almost mockingly. Like if you have AOE weapons or certain Warframe abilities, they'll straight up start parkouring to get away from you. In which you can either try to keep up or ignore them. If you do want to kill them? Give their limbs damage stats, so you can't outright kill them in one shot, you have to first destroy their legs and arms, (which will slow them and make them less agile). So basically one AOE attack against them, will only destroy one limb at a time. Alternatively if you can land a headshot they will take significant damage, making them vulnerable to killing. 

Basically I am just trying to think of ways, so that we don't just one shot them or Mesa (100 other abilities) them to death or blend them to death with melee. 

Then you basically just give them decent rewards to encourage some of us to try kill them, including running around the map, and going to areas we normally might not (some tile sets have a lot of secret and off the path areas they could go to. People who don't like parkour can just ignore them though. Oh and give them a waypoint marker, but let them use stealth too. Corpus can have a version. New type of Dax enemies could be a good candidate too. As for rewards, shrugs. Maybe 50% chance to drop a Riven Sliver or Steel Essence, plus guaranteed Energy Orb, Ammo Drop, Health. 

Basically I too like the idea of something that challenges us as far as movement abilities. Some enemies do use zip lines etc, I can't remember, but wasn't there an enemy that could wall run too, and some can bullet jump? Like in Dog Days they can right, I am like... 80 percent sure (my sight ain't the best, maybe its just my allies...), but a few problems. 1. Being we are pretty OP, 2. If you make the enemy too OP, because we are OP, well... not everyone is as OP as some, and thus you either have the people that want more of a challenge happy but a bunch of people annoyed, or you get Manics, Stalker etc which aren't much of a threat. So its. a bit of a balancing act to try incorporate. 

Anyway just random ideas I had, may not be popular lol. 

That actually sounds pretty fun!

Definitely would be cool to have an invasion sort of enemy that'd be your rival not just in stats, but also mobility! Kinda wish our Kuva Liches were like that tbh.

But yeah, honestly think it'd be great to not just have side enemies that challenges our parkour skills, but main Assissination bosses too, cause then you could have dedicated level design for them, as opposed to needing to create a complex AI that needs to have a flexible enough programming to not get stuck in random levels.

Any player that is interested in beating them despite being too hard, could simply get help from skilled allies in a party, max out the best build against said boss or simply git gud, which have always been the case for hard games.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Just now, ByroSphere said:

That actually sounds pretty fun!

Definitely would be cool to have an invasion sort of enemy that'd be your rival not just in stats, but also mobility! Kinda wish our Kuva Liches were like that tbh.

But yeah, honestly think it'd be great to not just have side enemies that challenges our parkour skills, but main Assissination bosses too, cause then you could have dedicated level design for them, as opposed to needing to create a complex AI that needs to have a flexible enough programming to not get stuck in random levels.

Any player that is interested in beating them despite being too hard, could simply get help from skilled allies in a party, max out the best build against said boss or simply git gud, which have always been the case for hard games.

 

Thanks, and yeah, especially having one on the Gas City tileset, and Kuva Fortress tileset. Great maps for parkour and possible chases. 

I was mostly thinking for solo players and or just not making them say... too important or necessary. I know some players struggled a bit with New War Archons, and Duviri, and don't really want too much difficulty from enemies, which I think is valid even if I personally would like some tougher enemies/challenges etc.

[ByroSphere]

7 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

No, you asked for a weak boss. Because without invulnerability phases, the boss will automatically be weak. Just like you cant survive in SP without immunity, the bosses cant survive tenno without those. If you ever buffed the bosses so they wouldnt be weak, they would have so much HP/armor/shields that the players would literally kill you for ever making up this idea as it would be so long and frustrating. You can already have long and frustrating with the other bosses, no need to make a new one with added difficulty of parkour. The game would be better served with bosses that are DEFEATED BY parkour (not by your damage). Just like nihil is for example, except in different tilesets and such.

A boss without I-frames is not a boss that is weak, it's a boss that you can cheese if you know what you are doing and have the gear to DPS their health faster than they can do anything. And you know what? That's actually fine, preferrably so even, if it's possible for the boss to come with any random level higher than the player. Cause then all you gotta adjust is their durability to control the time it takes for a player to beat them. No need to make a fight longer with I-frames.

 

 

[ByroSphere]

Just to clarify, I do want boss fights to be challenging, and of course the bosses needs a lot of health to not die instantly. But then, there is a difference between "having enough health to last in a 5 min battle" as opposed to "having enough health that they can last 30 minutes against a full party of maxed out Steel path frames".

 

[L00ri3n]

6 hours ago, ByroSphere said:

Been playing this game for over half a decade now, and something I always loved, and still do, is the mobility. The fact that you can not just zoom past levels with speed, but also wall jump, bullet jump, slide... all that stuff has always been awesome as soon as they became a feature. Yet, one thing that I always felt was kinda boring, is that the enemies dont really challenge you in that department at all.

Now, it can be cool to slaughter hundreds of grunts that are basically just giant ants with paintball turrets.... But when the bosses, the guys that are supposed to be a threat to you, are also just grounded opponents whom mostly just tank everything you throw at them, whenever they dont just teleport away and/or hide in their invulnerability frames.... It doesnt feel all that satisfying to fight them.

Something that could be very cool is if we got bosses that rivals us in moves, not being hard to kill cause they got a ridiculous amount of health and obscene levels of shields, but have them actively dodge your attacks, making it so that the player actually has to put effort in aiming and hitting them.... While also have more obstacle rich arenas that encourages lots of parkour!

Seriously, the mobility is the best thing about Warframe, yet most boss levels barely make use of it at all, as you usually are just thrown into big plane area against a relatively slow moving foe who makes no effort in evading the players attacks beyond I-frames, and I find that to be a shame.

You're thinking Ropalolyst.

[ByroSphere]

1 hour ago, L00ri3n said:

You're thinking Ropalolyst.

As in a bad example? Yea.

[MaxTunnerX]

1 hour ago, L00ri3n said:

You're thinking Ropalolyst.

Dont bother, Ive already tried :D

Edited September 1, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[L00ri3n]

Thank you! ♥

[(NSW)Free_Aetharus]

Hot take, I'm going to make references are are offensive to some players, are not NECESSARY to make my point, but are ENJOYABLE to emphasis my point.

EVERY enemy is mobile only 25% of the time, maximum. Teleporting does not count, it's a cop-out.

Grineer don't move a lot while they're unloading their guns on you. Make them more mobile. Make them more coordinated and cohesive like in a call of duty or medal of honor game. I know it's not medal of honor OR call of duty, but in those games, your stupidity can actually allow you to be flanked. In warframe, no matter how vain or pointless or completely and blatantly pointless flanking a warframe is, it's still much smarter and militaristic than standing still and taking a blade through the neck.

Corpus should be more mobile, too. They're excessively tech-based and there's only like 3 tilesets that utilize jetpack units. No necramech-adjacent enemies? None? No enemies that pale in comparison, but at least TRIED to emulate or perfect a mecha? Be more liked Armored Core and exploit enemies that cannot be damaged until their outer-armor is shattered. I don't know what I'm talking about, you don't armor-break a lot in armored core. Mixed thoughts.

Sentients could do more than adapt, ffs. They could mimic or copykavat a warframe. Guess that's not how adaptation works, or how sentients work, or how ANY of that works, but it's not a rule that they couldn't. Just that they aren't explicitly shown or depicted as doing so.

Stalkers, even the acolytes, could be more like warframes, bullet-jumping to chain a combo on you-- Bullet-jumping to retreat post-combo. Jumping towards you, firing shots in the air before melee slamming. Jumping AWAY, so you cannot melee them the entire time without closing the distance. When they get into melee distance, you melee, of course of course. And they retreat, you pull a gun out and fire. Of course of course. And you have to aim a little better as they swerve and try not to be TOO statuesque. Of course... Of course. Make them literally up there in power scaling by giving them the ability to best utilize. We don't need damage sponges, we don't need mandatory invincibility, we don't even technically need hit-based armor that nullifies ALL status until the armor's broken and shattered.

All enemies, at least to some of a faction's rank-elite, could use void-based phases[Sentients have trouble even venturing or interacting with the void, so sentients just need better ability to give you trouble without armor. They're always in an operator-centric void phase.] that need you to use the operator to disable tech, or simply phase-shift them back to physical.