Issue with damage conversion mod and chroma when oreceiving overguard, Could an opt out option be made available?

[kerozen666]

Overguard have been a very fun addition to the game. The status immunity is absolutly wonderful to receive most of the time. However, those overshields can end up more harmful to the player, notably when they expect taking damage to shield or health. a frame like Chroma and any build relying on rage or hunter adrenaline see itself penalized when receiving them. Vex armor can't provide bonus, and rage will not provide energy. 

So to this i would like to suggest adding an option to be able to opt out or instantly removing overguard for players who don't want it, akin to how one can quickly opt out of limbo's banish

[SDGDen]

technically, combat discipline can allow chroma to proc vex armor while having overguard, but that's a dumb workaround. 

[kerozen666]

il y a 25 minutes, SDGDen a dit :

technically, combat discipline can allow chroma to proc vex armor while having overguard, but that's a dumb workaround. 

also does not work on rage, so not only is it not great, it also doesn't even cover everything

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

Yea an opt out option has been needed for a long time. Theres many examples where ither peoples buffs can mess up your build.

Be a neat little feature if you can pick which of your 3 squad mates you want to be affected by or want to affect. Similar to how chat filters be working where you check boxes.

Id be in for it

To clarify this is what i mean:

(You see his profile in this image up there in top left of his pause menu? Just imagine a small black box outlined in white under his profile that you could click on to change his abilities from directly affecting you. 

If there were 4 players in his squad they also show up there too if you were unaware. Same process applys if you wish to stop them from affecting you)

Edited November 10, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[Tiltskillet]

It seems like something like Vex should be allowed to factor in damage to Overguard.   Maybe a lower bonus percentage per point if that's necessary. 

[kerozen666]

il y a 15 minutes, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim a dit :

Yea an opt out option has been needed for a long time. Theres many examples where ither peoples buffs can mess up your build.

Be a neat little feature if you can pick which of your 3 squad mates you want to be affected by or want to affect. Similar to how chat filters be working where you check boxes.

Id be in for it

would be a bit messy, like if that styanax is rocking nourish and the overguard augment. but it's not a bad option

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

1 hour ago, kerozen666 said:

would be a bit messy, like if that styanax is rocking nourish and the overguard augment. but it's not a bad option

I dont see how that would complicate things. Maybe you dont understand whats being asked?

Theres usually four squadmates in a match. Lets say youre host (which is always Squadmate #1) and you want Styanax who is Squadmate #4 to stop affecting you. You simply open a menu and check a box near Squadmate #4's username, then all of their abilities will no longer affect you. So no Nourish, no Roar, no Overguard. Whatever buffs their Styanax can give out will not go to you.

Same thing for Styanax, if he opens his menu and checks the corresponding box near your name to not affect you, then all of his abilities will affect everyone but you.

You cant choose 1 of your abilities to affect other players while your other abilities do not, i think thats too much; But Toggling a little box to be Allow ally to affect you, Dont Allow ally to affect you, or Dont affect ally, would seem easy enough and rather simple to use. 

So ingame, all youd see new when you open your pause menu in a mission, is either 3 little boxes under each players profile, or 1 box for each player acting as a toggle between those different options mention above.

Edited November 8, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[BroDutt]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

You cant choose 1 of your abilities to affect other players while your other abilities do not, i think thats too much; But Toggling a little box to be Allow ally to affect you, Dont Allow ally to affect you, or Dont affect ally, would seem easy enough and rather simple to use.

It will be much easier for the Dev to made damage to Overguard counted for Vex Armor rather than making new utility like that.

[Chewarette]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

I dont see how that would complicate things. Maybe you dont understand whats being asked?

Theres usually four squadmates in a match. Lets say youre host (which is always Squadmate #1) and you want Styanax who is Squadmate #4 to stop affecting you. You simply open a menu and check a box near Squadmate #4's username, then all of their abilities will no longer affect you. So no Nourish, no Roar, no Overguard. Whatever buffs their Styanax can give out will not go to you.

Same thing for Styanax, if he opens his menu and checks the corresponding box near your name to not affect you, then all of his abilities will affect everyone but you.

You cant choose 1 of your abilities to affect other players while your other abilities do not, i think thats too much; But Toggling a little box to be Allow ally to affect you, Dont Allow ally to affect you, or Dont affect ally, would seem easy enough and rather simple to use. 

So ingame, all youd see new when you open your pause menu in a mission, is either 3 little boxes under each players profile, or 1 box for each player acting as a toggle between those different options mention above.

That sounds awfully bloated, especially if you need to do that during the mission

I'm all-in for opt-outs, but this doesn't sound like a good idea at all.

I'd rather they investigate towards an option to not have Chroma be screwed by overguard.

[kerozen666]

Il y a 7 heures, BroDutt a dit :

It will be much easier for the Dev to made damage to Overguard counted for Vex Armor rather than making new utility like that.

don't forget Vex isn't the only thing getting neutered by overguard. it's anything relying on health damage. Rage and hunter adrenaline are one example that would not be solved if the solution is only on vex

 

[kerozen666]

Il y a 10 heures, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim a dit :

I dont see how that would complicate things. Maybe you dont understand whats being asked?

Theres usually four squadmates in a match. Lets say youre host (which is always Squadmate #1) and you want Styanax who is Squadmate #4 to stop affecting you. You simply open a menu and check a box near Squadmate #4's username, then all of their abilities will no longer affect you. So no Nourish, no Roar, no Overguard. Whatever buffs their Styanax can give out will not go to you.

Same thing for Styanax, if he opens his menu and checks the corresponding box near your name to not affect you, then all of his abilities will affect everyone but you.

You cant choose 1 of your abilities to affect other players while your other abilities do not, i think thats too much; But Toggling a little box to be Allow ally to affect you, Dont Allow ally to affect you, or Dont affect ally, would seem easy enough and rather simple to use. 

So ingame, all youd see new when you open your pause menu in a mission, is either 3 little boxes under each players profile, or 1 box for each player acting as a toggle between those different options mention above.

in mission that would be a complete mess. BUT if you implement this as a mini menu in the mod screen, letting you select what buff you want to receive from allies on a frame by frame basis, that would be the best probably

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

18 hours ago, Chewarette said:

That sounds awfully bloated, especially if you need to do that during the mission

Bloated as in its too complicated for people to perform? 

I would think since its not something you need to do all the time, just in a mission or 2 a week, its not too bad. Our modding system is 10x more complicated to do than that. Idk

18 hours ago, Chewarette said:

I'd rather they investigate towards an option to not have Chroma be screwed by overguard.

Maybe Vex armor should just be changed to say gain X% dmg when health or Overguard is hit then since no 1 really needs armor when you have 50k overguard that keeps getting replinished lol. If its too op they can always half the amount of damage you gain from overguard than what you gain from health since its less dangerous taking overguard damage than it is to take health damage.

Edited November 9, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

14 hours ago, kerozen666 said:

don't forget Vex isn't the only thing getting neutered by overguard. it's anything relying on health damage. Rage and hunter adrenaline are one example that would not be solved if the solution is only on vex

Same with this, rework the mods and the few abilities that do health damage conversions to count overguard. Maybe do it for 1/2 or 1/4 the effect since its less dangerous taking overguard damage than it is to take health damage

[Chewarette]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Bloated as in its too complicated for people to perform? 

I would think since its not something you need to do all the time, just in a mission or 2 a week, its not too bad. Our modding system is 10x more complicated to do than that. Idk

Well, if the system requires you to, in the middle of the mission, hit Esc > scroll through the thousands of options we have nowadays > Find the one where you "opt-out" of buffs > Type the colleague's number (or worse, you didn't note it beforehand in the heat of the action, so you have to escape back and come again), then saving and going back to the action where you're likely dead anyway...

That's clunky. That's why they found other ways to get rid of Limbo's banish and Volt's speed buff (even if the speed buff is not practical I agree). A similar approach should be found for Chroma's issue.

Something that could be done, maybe, is taking advantage of the missing 3-4 abilities of the Operator now that they only have 2 per focus school. His 3 could cleanse all buffs from the Warframe, his 4 could remove all Overguard, Overshields and Shields (with maybe a 30-sec "immunity" duration). Just throwing out ideas, but the goal would be to find a way to achieve that ingame rather than in a menu.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

3 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Well, if the system requires you to, in the middle of the mission, hit Esc > scroll through the thousands of options we have nowadays > Find the one where you "opt-out" of buffs > Type the colleague's number (or worse, you didn't note it beforehand in the heat of the action, so you have to escape back and come again), then saving and going back to the action where you're likely dead anyway...

Oh i see, no thats too much. You would see it the moment you open the pause menu so that its quick and easy

You see his profile in this image up there in top left of his pause menu? Just imagine a small black box outlined in white under his profile that you could click on to change his abilities from directly affecting you. 

If there were 4 players in his squad they also show up there too if you were unaware. Same process applys

Edited November 9, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[kerozen666]

10 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Same with this, rework the mods and the few abilities that do health damage conversions to count overguard. Maybe do it for 1/2 or 1/4 the effect since its less dangerous taking overguard damage than it is to take health damage

would have to be overguard YOU have not generated in the current situation. because then you'd give rhino, kullervo, styanax and frost infinite energy. reduced gains would also feel bad, because while you are not neutered, you still gain less energy thanks to the choice of others

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

11 hours ago, kerozen666 said:

would have to be overguard YOU have not generated in the current situation. because then you'd give rhino, kullervo, styanax and frost infinite energy. reduced gains would also feel bad, because while you are not neutered, you still gain less energy thanks to the choice of 

Yea it would have to apply to overguard gained from allies. I keep forgetting Frost and Rhino get overguard now too. Im okay with technically infinite energy for kullervo cause it always feels like i have you have it anyway. And yea styanax would become stupid op too lol. The nerf to rage would have to be big to make it fair for the user but that would mean its unfair to those who didnt want it. Youre right

Okay final idea

 What if rage and hunter adrenaline were reworked to just come with a neg that disables the player's ability to gain overguard? 🤔 id assume anyone using then wouldnt want or even need to have overguard anyways so maybe that would fix the issue? Makes Rage and Hunter Adrenaline a little more dangerous to use but maintains their reward.

Or they could just make this effect apply to Rage and give it a 90% health conversion to compensate. Leave Hunter Adrenaline alone for players who still want to have overguard and gain energy when they lose their overguard. That could further reduce damage to peoples builds

Meanwhile Vex Armor just gains some damage as his overguard is hit. It would not only let him play like normal but also make the help he gets from his allies be much more meaningful to the player which i think feels good for gameplay

Edited November 10, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[kerozen666]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Yea it would have to apply to overguard gained from allies. I keep forgetting Frost and Rhino get overguard now too. Im okay with technically infinite energy for kullervo cause it always feels like i have you have it anyway. And yea styanax would become stupid op too lol. The nerf to rage would have to be big to make it fair for the user but that would mean its unfair to those who didnt want it. Youre right

Okay final idea

 What if rage and hunter adrenaline were reworked to just come with a neg that disables the player's ability to gain overguard? 🤔 id assume anyone using then wouldnt want or even need to have overguard anyways so maybe that would fix the issue? Makes Rage and Hunter Adrenaline a little more dangerous to use but maintains their reward.

Or they could just make this effect apply to Rage and give it a 90% health conversion to compensate. Leave Hunter Adrenaline alone for players who still want to have overguard and gain energy when they lose their overguard. That could further reduce damage to peoples builds

Meanwhile Vex Armor just gains some damage as his overguard is hit. It would not only let him play like normal but also make the help he gets from his allies be much more meaningful to the player which i think feels good for gameplay

those idea could work. like, it solve all the current problems at hand. the only issue i see is that it would need to constasntly be frame by frame for cases like chroma, pr at least each ability would have to be tagged, but otherwise, everything flies