Pillage on Hydroid? (and keeping Plunder too)

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

If I replace tentacle swarm with pillage, while having plunder too, what's the pro and cons of this idea?? considering Pillage requires armor and Plunder takes armor...

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

If I replace tentacle swarm with pillage, while having plunder too, what's the pro and cons of this idea?? considering Pillage requires armor and Plunder takes armor...

Same if you armor strip

It won’t suck any armor because there is no armor to suck

I tried it already… granted it was with terrify on Hildryn, but  it’s the same concept

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

5 minutes ago, Malikili said:

Same if you armor strip

It won’t suck any armor because there is no armor to suck

I tried it already… granted it was with terrify on Hildryn, but  it’s the same concept

I can't decide man, probably dispensary is the best choice with my 45% eff

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I can't decide man, probably dispensary is the best choice with my 45% eff

Nourish maybe?

Free viral damage and corrosive, along with energy buffing

If you got 45% efficiency, then that means you must have a decent amount of strength (though even at 100% strength, nourish is still good)

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

Just now, Malikili said:

Nourish maybe?

Free viral damage and corrosive, along with energy buffing

If you got 45% efficiency, then that means you must have a decent amount of strength (though even at 100% strength, nourish is still good)

yeah, very high strength and duration with good range 

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

yeah, very high strength and duration with good range 

Then nourish will work wonders with him

You’ll get free viral from that, along with free corrosive with his third. 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

6 minutes ago, Malikili said:

Then nourish will work wonders with him

You’ll get free viral from that, along with free corrosive with his third. 

I'll keep pillage for a while because I just remembered I'm having major problems with him against shields and I don't run Unairu nor use magnetic damage.

If I have viral tempest + plunder + Pillage I'm probably well balanced against every faction

[Aruquae]

Just now, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I'll keep pillage for a while because I just remembered I'm having major problems with him against shields and I don't run Unairu nor use magnetic damage.

If I have viral tempest + plunder + Pillage I'm probably well balanced against every faction

Forgot that augment existed

Yea pillage is a good choice for everything, even helps you with survivability. Could you post the build? Sounds fun to use 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Hopper_Orouk:

If I replace tentacle swarm with pillage, while having plunder too, what's the pro and cons of this idea?? considering Pillage requires armor and Plunder takes armor...

Is this more for fun?
because skill set and scaling is rather weak. feels like you want to install a fifth wheel on a car. There are too many unanswered questions here: where should I use it, with which group, is there something better, etc.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

19 minutes ago, Malikili said:

Forgot that augment existed

Yea pillage is a good choice for everything, even helps you with survivability. Could you post the build? Sounds fun to use 

I will, it took me a lot of forma tho, couldn't decide which build to use, probably why I asked here. I am also using 5 tau shards

5 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

Is this more for fun?
because skill set and scaling is rather weak. feels like you want to install a fifth wheel on a car. There are too many unanswered questions here: where should I use it, with which group, is there something better, etc.

I don't quite understand what skill set does tentacle swarm have to not replace it...

the idea here is that now, Hydroid is an armor based buffer, he deals with armor, and health, never shields...he also has a high shield count so he can't properly shield gate.

 

Pillage provides an answer to everything hydroids lacks, first of all, You really don't need to have armor to max out plunder, you need 20 or plus stacks of corrosive...armor just helps a little

When having Plunder active, you have no other means for permanent armor stripping...so pillage fills in that role during the lifetime of the buff

Pillage also helps you shield gate with Hydroid.

[SneakyErvin]

I'm not sure what content you run if you have trouble with killing shielded enemies on him. Barrage just rips through everything. You might be severely limiting your potential by going ape on strength with negative efficiency due to the fact that a cheap Barrage can be stacked extremely quickly with devastating results.

Consider this. with +100% strength and 2 areas you are effectively dealing as much damage as you would otherwise do with 1 single area at +300% strength. Plus the two zones stack your debuffs twice as fast. And since you run high range that method becomes even more reliable since everything within the 10m circle will likely get hit by each single rain drop that explodes.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

hace 1 hora, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk dijo:

When having Plunder active, you have no other means for permanent armor stripping...so pillage fills in that role during the lifetime of the buff

My Hydroid has 0 formas, and I find him to be excellent that way... 4.5k armour is nothing to sneeze at, less with over 1.5k health.
If am not mistaken I've seen you've done a lot of Hydroid posts ever since his rework, some with which I disagree, but this snippet has caught my attention specifically.

Do you need a perma armour strip for Hydroid outside of Plunder?
Given how his passive works and the fact that all his other abilities proc corrosive, it seems like diminishing returns to me to add an armour strip ability to him, even Plunder's own permanent armour removal seems a bit of a bad thing at times.
If you want to shield gate on Hydroid, I'd recommend just adding Redirection / shards & having a sentinel with Guardian + Manifold Bond + a Hellstrum over subsuming Pillage for Tentacle swarm which will proc even more corrosive on enemies and keep anything that isn't an Exigoose / Overguarded thing from harming you.

With Tempest barrage augment you'd have 2/3 status required for it to proc covered on an AoE, so as long as your sentinel or you proc something else, you get a 10% cooldown reduction on an instant full shield recharge. That's how I'd do it at least.

Personally I have Nourish over his 2 since it doesn't stack enemies despite moving them, and it's just ridiculous how much damage you can ditch out, but I also like to do non-helmith things like the formerly mentioned.

[SneakyErvin]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Personally I have Nourish over his 2 since it doesn't stack enemies despite moving them, and it's just ridiculous how much damage you can ditch out, but I also like to do non-helmith things like the formerly mentioned.

Nourish instead of his 2 along with a gas+electric or gas+cold high status/damage/crit weapon is bonkers insane. So much AoE potential aslong as you keep the buffs up, then barrage just adds even more AoE ontop of it. Then you can go extra insane with either a + crit damage pet, or one with manifold bond for more gundition overload.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

you've done a lot of Hydroid posts ever since his rework, some with which I disagree, but this snippet has caught my attention specifically.

Yeah well I am because I'm having trouble making a build that is satisfying for me...I keep asking the forums maybe I'd get something unique...I try to post once everyday so I don't bloat the forums with my stupid posts...but i'll cut it out, my bad

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nourish instead of his 2 along with a gas+electric or gas+cold high status/damage/crit weapon is bonkers insane. So much AoE potential aslong as you keep the buffs up, then barrage just adds even more AoE ontop of it. Then you can go extra insane with either a + crit damage pet, or one with manifold bond for more gundition overload.

that's sounds more interesting, I'll definitely go that route.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

'm not sure what content you run if you have trouble with killing shielded enemies on him.

Oh I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with shields on steel path...high level steel path, void fissures, etc...but I wasn't using nourish so maybe the lack of damage is why,

[(PSN)rexis12]

10 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

If I replace tentacle swarm with pillage, while having plunder too, what's the pro and cons of this idea?? considering Pillage requires armor and Plunder takes armor...

You'd honestly get more results with Styanax's Armor/Shield strip to be honest.

[Aruquae]

13 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Oh I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with shields on steel path...high level steel path, void fissures, etc...but I wasn't using nourish so maybe the lack of damage is why,

Well if you’re struggling shields you could go full toxin on your weapons

No point in damaging shields when you can simply ignore it, am I right? (Don’t answer that)

 

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Oh I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with shields on steel path...high level steel path, void fissures, etc...but I wasn't using nourish so maybe the lack of damage is why,

How many Barrage circles do you manage to keep active?

In my own build I just spam the button in a couple of areas where enemies tend to come from, like doorways etc. Usually that results in 5-7 stacked circles per location when I'm done spamming, at a cost of 6.25 energy per circle. And that stacks up to alot of damage with "just" +177% strength from augment and 3x umbra.

And due to how fast they are cast, aslong as you have 1 energy to shield option in your kit you can pretty much stop to lay down barrages wherever and whenever you want since you will always have the minimal shield gate saving you. If your ape crazy armor and health wont be enough. 

[schilds]

Pillage on Hydroid is redundant.

As for Plunder's armour strip:

• Hydroid's actual source of armour strip is corrosive stacking + passive.
• Plunder is primarily an armour and damage buff. You don't spam it.
• Plunder's armour strip is mostly just there to ensure that enemy armour remains stripped when the corrosive stacks are consumed.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

How many Barrage circles do you manage to keep active?

In my own build I just spam the button in a couple of areas where enemies tend to come from, like doorways etc. Usually that results in 5-7 stacked circles per location when I'm done spamming, at a cost of 6.25 energy per circle. And that stacks up to alot of damage with "just" +177% strength from augment and 3x umbra.

And due to how fast they are cast, aslong as you have 1 energy to shield option in your kit you can pretty much stop to lay down barrages wherever and whenever you want since you will always have the minimal shield gate saving you. If your ape crazy armor and health wont be enough. 

hmm why don't you mod for 240+ strength on Hydroid?

I have 269% duration, 45% eff 169% range and a 269% strength (nice I know).

Hydroid benefit a lot from duration and strength, and range too but it doesn't have to be max...I have 60 seconds Plunder, and 30 Tentacle swarm...and each Barrage of mine last for about 26 seconds...I don't really need to spam it because it lasts for so long, usually 4 or 5 casts...

I can cast more, as I don't really have a problem with energy but everything dies,...everything except corpus eximus on steel path, these guys have so much shields I think I'll get a magnetic melee weapon specific for them.

 

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

hmm why don't you mod for 240+ strength on Hydroid?

I have 269% duration, 45% eff 169% range and a 269% strength (nice I know).

Hydroid benefit a lot from duration and strength, and range too but it doesn't have to be max...I have 60 seconds Plunder, and 30 Tentacle swarm...and each Barrage of mine last for about 26 seconds...I don't really need to spam it because it lasts for so long, usually 4 or 5 casts...

I can cast more, as I don't really have a problem with energy but everything dies,...everything except corpus eximus on steel path, these guys have so much shields I think I'll get a magnetic melee weapon specific for them.

 

I dislike having to give up efficiency for strength. At that point I'd need to mod for a higher energy pool in return, and I prefer efficiency since it gives each orb pick up much more value and it also gives enemy energy drains less impact, since it is faster to get back to casting. Right now one orb equals 4 casts when I'm unbuffed. And since you can stack barrage in an area to multiply the damage several times over I rather go that route, since it ends up doing alot more damage.

Plus more strength would require me to skip either Plunder or Barrage augment, which means the strength investment would be less worth it, since both of those already provide strength for the skills needed. And if I skip Plunder augment I'd lose a huge heal on demand that works for Hydroid and allies alike. And while I wouldnt say no to more duration, I dont really need it since I use plunder eitherway to heal my companion in endless. And for non endless I never really consider my skills since they are mostly not needed eitherway. And with how range interacts with plunder it was a stat I decided to skip, since it only increases explosion size, and in the few situations where I use tentacles I really dont want or need range.

Right now my bild is. Plunder Aug, Barrage Aug, 3x Umbra, Primed Cont, Fleeting, Streamline, Combat Disc, PSF. 2 cast speed shards, 3 duration shards, which will likely end up with 1 cast speed tau and 4 duration tau in the end. Avenger+Blessing Arcanes, Gas+Cold Torid Incarnon, Contagion melee, Pure Heat Furis Incarnon with Augur Pact added for shield gating and a panzer with link armor+hp, +crit damage and +fire rate and the needed mods to reach those requirements. Unairu school and Nourish instead of Tidal Wave. 

And if you really wanna counter Corpus shields, just go Toxin, since it works verus everyone since you strip armor eitherways. Rad+Toxin probably since that would also give you a soft CC on your ranged weapons. I prefer Gas though on Hydroid since it just ends up being massive AoE. Though milage may vary depending on which weapon you wanna use.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Right now my bild is. Plunder Aug, Barrage Aug, 3x Umbra, Primed Cont, Fleeting, Streamline, Combat Disc, PSF. 2 cast speed shards, 3 duration shards, which will likely end up with 1 cast speed tau and 4 duration tau in the end. Avenger+Blessing Arcanes, Gas+Cold Torid Incarnon, Contagion melee, Pure Heat Furis Incarnon with Augur Pact added for shield gating and a panzer with link armor+hp, +crit damage and +fire rate and the needed mods to reach those requirements. Unairu school and Nourish instead of Tidal Wave. 

I feel like, energy multiplier aside, Having viral tempest is enough reason not to have nourish...outside of it's proc, Viral damage is unnecessary, and if you can get 10 stacks in one barrage, why do you need Nourish? right? If you want damage better you're off with Xata, or roar since they compliment his corrosive damage with additional separate multipliers.

or better yet, Thermal sunder with it's augment to get heat and cold.
I've decided to keep them as they are for now...1 is very important, two is basically rolling guard for me, three is his damage buff and permanent armor strip, and 4 while weaker saves A LOT OF TIME with it's augment.

Oh man, how I wish Pilfering swarm was affected by strength again...

[SneakyErvin]

20 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I feel like, energy multiplier aside, Having viral tempest is enough reason not to have nourish...outside of it's proc, Viral damage is unnecessary, and if you can get 10 stacks in one barrage, why do you need Nourish? right? If you want damage better you're off with Xata, or roar since they compliment his corrosive damage with additional separate multipliers.

or better yet, Thermal sunder with it's augment to get heat and cold.
I've decided to keep them as they are for now...1 is very important, two is basically rolling guard for me, three is his damage buff and permanent armor strip, and 4 while weaker saves A LOT OF TIME with it's augment.

Oh man, how I wish Pilfering swarm was affected by strength again...

Nourish doesnt require me to use a skill though, it is always there on the weapon together with Corrosive and all other damage types I want. It also turns companions into mobile viral spreading bombs. I utterly hate Xata since it too often ends up blocking headshot potential, especially when run on chain beam weapons. Roar is nice though. Thermal Sunder could be nice, but I already have cold on my weapon and I cant spare a mod slot on the augment anyway. My weapon however has a spare slot for either the cold I use or the electric I could use, both of which thermal sunder would add nothing to, since it would either turn into more cold, or blast killing the benefit of cold, or magnetic, killing the benefit of electric, or dilute the pool with blast damage together with the electric.

I just couldnt find a use for his 2. I took him to a few SP Mot fissures to try how his TTL is versus the most hard hitting and durable modifiers we can face and during the hour+ I spent there per run he didnt go down once, or even get to a point where he was close to it. The combination between 90% DR, constant shield gate access, arcane blessing and healing on demand just made both him and my companion indestructable. And I had killed around 8000 enemies after 60 minutes. I've done quite a few Pluto SP survival fissures aswell and the outcome is roughly the same, with kills fluctuating more since some of the map layouts on the corpus ships end up as total S#&$ for spawns. Kills overall would probably be higher outside of fissures since there is no transformation time interuption on mobs.

Edited November 16, 2023 by SneakyErvin

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nourish doesnt require me to use a skill though, it is always there on the weapon together with Corrosive and all other damage types I want. It also turns companions into mobile viral spreading bombs. I utterly hate Xata since it too often ends up blocking headshot potential, especially when run on chain beam weapons. Roar is nice though. Thermal Sunder could be nice, but I already have cold on my weapon and I cant spare a mod slot on the augment anyway. My weapon however has a spare slot for either the cold I use or the electric I could use, both of which thermal sunder would add nothing to, since it would either turn into more cold, or blast killing the benefit of cold, or magnetic, killing the benefit of electric, or dilute the pool with blast damage together with the electric.

I just couldnt find a use for his 2. I took him to a few SP Mot fissures to try how his TTL is versus the most hard hitting and durable modifiers we can face and during the hour+ I spent there per run he didnt go down once, or even get to a point where he was close to it. The combination between 90% DR, constant shield gate access, arcane blessing and healing on demand just made both him and my companion indestructable. And I had killed around 8000 enemies after 60 minutes. I've done quite a few Pluto SP survival fissures aswell and the outcome is roughly the same, with kills fluctuating more since some of the map layouts on the corpus ships end up as total S#&$ for spawns. Kills overall would probably be higher outside of fissures since there is no transformation time interuption on mobs.

so wait I DON'T need viral tempest when I have nourish? Cus I'd really use the augment slot lol.

having 400% status chance of viral is nothing to shy away from, and it makes the ability kill everything with health or armor.

 

edit: is there a warframe sub or discord for theory crafting? I am using the forums for that...but I don't know if it's appropriate.

Edited November 16, 2023 by (PSN)Hopper_Orouk

[SneakyErvin]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

so wait I DON'T need viral tempest when I have nourish? Cus I'd really use the augment slot lol.

having 400% status chance of viral is nothing to shy away from, and it makes the ability kill everything with health or armor.

 

edit: is there a warframe sub or discord for theory crafting? I am using the forums for that...but I don't know if it's appropriate.

You can skip it, but that means it will kill slower when left on its own as you go elsewhere. Which is what I often do, cover some doorways, go the other direction to kill something else and then run back to collect loot. The nice part having it with nourish is that everything is practically always at a state where you deal 2x damage to them, no matter if you open with barrage or not, since viral comes from practically everything you do or the enemy does to you or your companion, and you spread it on kill aswell if you use combat discipline. Though the personal spread range from my Hydroid isnt large since I dont use any range mods.

For me the status chance doesnt matter, since I just place several circles instead, so with my avarage of 5 circles in an area it means 20 bombs dropping with alteast guaranteed application of viral and corrosive on anything they hit with the initial hit or explosion. I actually did double check one thing, with the augment turning into viral tempest, they gutted the 100% strength from the old augment. So I'm actually just sitting with +77% strength on my Barrage and not +177%.

No idea if there is a sub or discord for theory crafting.