TennoGen and Cross Platform Save

[fabi-fly]

1 hour ago, HeatWalk said:

If you truly want to protect tennogen creators. Refund the platinum to the consoles that bought tennogen if they migrate to PC. Platinum is just digital currency you can make with 1's and 0's out of thin air.

If they want tennogen, they can buy it through steam.

 

Even if you paid the creators a lump sum for the skin on console, it's still a fair loss on DE since the company could not predict the game would become cross platform.

Yeah that seems like a good solution. Take away something you bought just to make you pay it again for no reason with another, incompatible (you can't turn PL into real money obviously), currency.

I think what they've done is pretty fair and avoid any kind of abuse by players owning a PC and a console account by spending all the console PLs on Tennogen items.

[(PSN)Drakegoneos]

Name the cross save update All As One

 

[GrayArchon]

5 hours ago, Voltage said:

What exactly would be "abused" by having a bit of a window to make purchases? The absolute worst case scenario is you have a bunch of people spending money.

It sounds like the worst-case scenario DE is picturing is a bunch of console players who intend to play on PC buying a whole bunch of TennoGen right now, today, with stockpiled Platinum so they can use the cosmetics in the future on PC. Those purchases, like all other console purchases, would not go to the artist.

[xBloodySin]

2 hours ago, kamisama85 said:

Just because you buy a song on Apple Music, doesn't mean you are entitled to it on Spotify, on Amazon Music, on SoundCloud, on Youtube Music, etc.

Come back with an actual parallel to the situation and I might bother skimming through it.

[Kalidibus]

3 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

That is the point of this pop-up -- to allow players to make informed decisions. Should someone value the ability to cross-save their cosmetics, then perhaps TennoGen is not the right fit for them. Our goal is to ensure that we are transparent with players before their spend their hard-earned currency because this restriction exists.

I understand if you don't agree with the restriction or hope we took another route. This is an incredibly complex situation, and we have done our best to find a compromise that serves both players and artists as much as is feasible for us. TennoGen is a program that has existed for 8 years, with over 400 items and over 80 artists -- a program that unfortunately was not designed with Cross Platform Save in mind. 

Should new resources or avenues be open to us in the future, we will do our best to explore them. We love TennoGen, we love our artists, and we know how much the community loves them too. Our goal is to do this program right however we can to ensure it thrives for all involved -- the artists, and the players who love their art. 

I'm perfectly happy with how this ended up, and I've been waiting for cross-save (and whinging about it) for years. This is what I think the vast majority of us expected, and getting merges which include a one time tennogen copy is more than I personally expected (and I'm really happy to see it).

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Kalidibus

[Royal_Snek]

Question about linking just to be clear. 

 

I have 3 accounts. One on Pc, PSN and Switch. I started on psn before getting a computer and joining there. Switch i just wanted to help out the newer players and be a part of the community when it began.

 

Will I be able to merge all 3 or am I limited to just 2 out of the 3? 

[(PSN)oHyAwilson]

5小时前 , GrayArchon 说:

聽起來 DE 想像的最壞情況是一群打算在 PC 上玩遊戲的遊戲機玩家現在購買一大堆 TennoGen，並儲備白金，這樣他們將來就可以在 PC 上使用化妝品。與所有其他遊戲機購買一樣，這些購買不會流向藝術家。

But there is no platinum discount for console gamers to buy platinum, the price of the stored value 165 platinum is about the same as the PC TennoGen cash price, and trading between gamers is very rare, apart from setting the console language system to English, it is almost impossible for you to see gamers using the trading channel.

This is actually unfair to console gamers. I think TennoGen's restriction of platforms should have been done after the launch of Cross-Save, to prevent PC players from taking advantage of the discounted Platinum price to buy TennoGen on the console platform...not to prevent console players from bringing TennoGen to PC.

[Er0-Sage]

So basically, to sum it up:

If you have one account, you link it as the primary account, and any tennogen bought before the cut-off date is usable on all platforms if they were available on said platforms originally. However, if you buy Tennogen after the cut-off date, it will only be usable on either PC or Console, depending on where you buy it.

And If you have two accounts you merge, they become one with the same rules for Tennogen.

Is this correct?

[(XBOX)Fiv3se7en]

2 minutes ago, Jiraiya_Sage said:

So basically, to sum it up:

If you have one account, you link it as the primary account, and any tennogen bought before the cut-off date is usable on all platforms if they were available on said platforms originally. However, if you buy Tennogen after the cut-off date, it will only be usable on either PC or Console, depending on where you buy it.

And If you have two accounts you merge, they become one with the same rules for Tennogen.

Is this correct?

Sounds about right.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

Off topic but Yatus' "Ion Cloak" has been the highest voted syandana design in the Steam Workshop since 2018 and DE still hasn't added it to the game. He's already revised it several times over the years to their liking and it's not being implemented. I couldn't care less about Tennogen if popular designs aren't even being added and player votes are being ignored.

Edited November 27, 2023 by (XBOX)Tanta Cinta

[(XBOX)KCmOctoPOPS]

Why? Whats the point of selling tennogen on consoles anymore if they're just gonna be locked on platforms after yesterday? Defeats the purpose of bringing your stuff across platforms, along with sneaking this cutoff last second and now probably screwed some players out of a new purchase.

This is kinda scummy making people buy the same tennogen items again if they wanna switch. There has to have been a better way of going about this. I feel bad for any future new players who need to switch platforms for any reason and essentially will either have to wait to decide their permanent platform before purchasing, or bite the bullet and purchase their favorite skins again.

[(XBOX)KCmOctoPOPS]

10 hours ago, Kialandi said:

 

I think you guys keep forgetting that Tennogen is not sold directly by DE but through Steam and their Workshop which is not cross-platform.

I think you forgot that purchases can be made cross platform. In a way yes, they are being sold by literally being sold by DE through steam cause they cover the purchases.

Edited November 25, 2023 by (XBOX)KCmOctoPOPS

[(XBOX)G4F4D0]

hace 15 horas, [DE]Taylor dijo:

Hi Tenno,

With Cross Platform Save approaching, we want to address any questions our players may have about how their TennoGen items will be used across accounts. This forum post serves as a complete overview of how the TennoGen Program will work with Cross Platform Save, for both players and artists interested in this content!

For those looking for a TL;DR of how things work now, we have added it at the bottom under its own header for easy reference. 

THE CONTEXT: 

TennoGen items are community-made creations made accessible to use via the SteamWorkshop. Once an item is accepted, players can acquire it in one of two ways, depending on the platform you play on. 

• PC Players purchase TennoGen for real money through the Steam Workshop directly in-game or via our TennoGen Store using their linked Steam account.
  • 30% of each sale goes directly to the Artists who made the item.
• Console Players purchase eligible TennoGen via the in-game Market for Platinum
  • Digital Extremes pays Artists a one-time sum as part of the Transfer process to Consoles.

Since TennoGen launched on Consoles in 2016 we have shared the incredible work of our Artists with Console Tenno, while also ensuring that their PC sales were not impacted. At the time of writing, over 400 items exist within the TennoGen program, the majority of which have been licensed for Console use.

With Cross-Save, we need to redefine how these purchases work to maintain the integrity of this program -- a program which has operated in a pre-cross-save world for almost 8 years now. 

APPROACHING CROSS PLATFORM SAVE:

When defining how TennoGen would work with Cross Platform Save, we worked off of these two tenets:

• We do not want to impact TennoGen sales on PC and will do our best to ensure that Artist income is as unaffected as possible.
• We want to respect the fact that many Console Tenno have TennoGen they have owned for years.

After many, many discussions, we landed on a decision that manifests itself in two parts.

Firstly, all TennoGen purchased before 2pm ET on November 24th will be able to use via Cross Platform Save on any (licensed) Platform. 

If you have pieces you know and love, they will come with you if you decide to merge your accounts. 
(if purchased before that cut-off date, of course!)

Secondly, all TennoGen purchased after 2pm ET on November 24th will be either PC- or Console-Locked.

• Steam PC Purchases can be used on the PC version of Warframe only. 
• Console Purchases can be used via Cross Platform Save on any (licensed) console platform. 

We explored a variety of options before coming to this outcome, but we felt this was the most feasible way to ensure that Artist income on PC was not impacted, while also respecting the years of history that our Console Tenno have with their TennoGen. 

To ensure that all future TennoGen transactions are informed purchases, players should already see a new pop-up message outlining how their purchase will work with Cross Platform save:

Purchasing on PC

Known issue: this copy alludes to PC gifting, which is not possible via Steam. We will update this copy with Whispers in the Wall’s release to remove all mention of gifting. 

Purchasing on Console

To be clear, this new Cross Platform Save pop-up message was turned on at 2 p.m. ET today to ensure it was active the moment the cut-off happened -- this ensures that players are made aware of how their new TennoGen will work with Cross Platform Save before they purchase. 

A part of why we have slowed down on TennoGen in the latter half of 2023 was to ensure that both Artists and the community had an educated understanding of how TennoGen works with Cross Platform Save before we moved forward with more releases and sales events. With that said, we hope this post has offered more insight into how Cross Platform Save will work with this program, and we look forward to a TennoGen-filled 2024!

---

TL;DR:

• TennoGen Purchases before Nov 24 at 2pm ET will Cross Platform Save to any platform
• TennoGen Purchases after Nov 24 at 2pm ET will Cross Platform Save differently depending on where you bought it
• Steam PC purchases are locked to PC
• Console purchases are locked to all (licensed) console platforms
• Reasons for this system: 
  • We do not want to impact Artist income (they earn 30% of their PC sales)
  • We want to respect historical console purchases 
• Cross Platform Save Eligibility Message is live on all platforms NOW for all TennoGen items to help players make informed purchases

---

What is a licensed Console Platform?
A licensed Console Platform is a platform on which we have acquired the rights to use the TennoGen item. Not all TennoGen are available on all platforms, so players may notice that their favourite item can be used on PlayStation, but not on the Nintendo Switch, for example. 

Why is the cut-off date for TennoGen purchases so early?
We decided on this cut-off date to prevent players from intentionally stocking up on Platinum-purchased TennoGen to transfer their PC accounts. We know that there are players who can freely spend Platinum but can’t do the same with real money, and we understand why a player may have been planning to take that route. It’s vital to us that our TennoGen Artists retain their income from PC sales, and this policy operates with that goal in mind. 

Why don’t Steam PC purchases also give you the console version of the item?
We explored this option, but it, unfortunately, is not an avenue that is available to us. 

If Artist Income is so important, why are you allowing historical Console purchases to transfer to PC? 
In short, compromise. Two statements can be true at the same time, even if they seem contradictory: we don’t want to impact PC sales, and we respect that many Console Tenno have owned TennoGen items for years. We didn’t feel comfortable as Devs asking players to suddenly buy these items again, especially the creations that they’ve been using for a long time. 

With the new Cross Platform Save pop-up message for purchases, our goal is to ensure that players are aware of the new platform restrictions before deciding to buy. For the seven years of Console (and PC!) transactions before Nov 24, that pop-up did not exist, and therefore we decided the restrictions should not apply. 

Will my pre-cutoff PC Purchases transfer to Console?
Yes! Much of this forum post focused on the Console to PC merge, but Steam PC TennoGen purchased before November 24 at 2 p.m. ET will be eligible for full Cross Platform Save (on licensed platforms). 

About account MERGING/FUSION , lets say i have 2 emails, 1 for console and 1 for pc. The console one has all the good stuff (progress, exp, skins, etc..) and the PC is lvl 1. I want to fuse my xbox account into my pc account so: Will the result of that will have the email of my pc account? Will it transfer only the cosmetics and not the progress?

[renkiji]

Will Heirloom and Prime Access be accessible on all platforms? I'm planning to buy it on my secondary PC account, then merge it to my primary PS account.

Edited November 25, 2023 by renkiji

[Stormandreas]

While this is admirable, there are flaws here. Pretty obvious ones.

So, if we have a tennogen skin, purchased after the cuttoff date on PC, I equip that skin, log out, and then log into console.

What happens? Does the game break? Does all my fashion get reset? Do I just not get to use the weapon? What happens?

These are things you haven't answered or explained for some reason.

 

Another thing not answered is, why did you not look at a solution to standardise purchasing Tennogen across all platforms.
It would not be out of DE's scope to make all tennogen Plat purchasable, and then take the accumulated numbers of purchases on items every month or few months, and then pay the creator accordingly based on the purchases.
Why was this not done?
This would resolve the "locking skins to a platform" problem you now have made for yourselves, and still pay creators for their work.

 

Not only that, you've arbitrarily locked Excal Prime, Lato Prime and Skana Prime to PC use only. So now I'm locked out of using my founders gear if I log into a console? why? This makes quite literally 0 sense as these items are just, part of my account.

[Petroklos]

I don't like the idea of having a thing in Platform A and then not having it in Platform B unless I buy it again, but I prefer it over freelance artists making less.

Ideally, the TennoGen program would be changed for all future additions, so that purchases are somehow unified between platforms.

Retroactivelly changing existing TennoGen, over time if need be, would be great too, but it really does seem unlikely.

Regardless, the priority should remain for the artists to recieve as big of a cut as possible.

13 hours ago, Turbozis said:

So how does being warned about being scammed make it any better again?

scam: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation

fraudulent: characterized by, based on, or done by fraud : DECEITFUL

You're being told, plain as day, what your purchase will do.

You're not being forced to buy the thing.

You don't have to buy the thing, not even in the gamer sense of "have to because content".

And it's not illegal, because it's not illegal.

So it's not a scam, now is it?

[Eslam200015]

It's not fair for PC players . DE don't want to affect artists and respect console players purchases with platinum all on expense of pc players who pay with real money . U can simply pay to artists like u do with console and make the market the same for all platforms. but nah make the pc player give u cash better and others pay plat it's not fair. now I have to support artists twice to be able to play on both platforms ? pc players wanted that cross save to buy tennogens with plat like ALL platforms do but U made an unjust decision, thanks !

[(PSN)never3nder_87]

At the risk of sounding like a shill, I think the thing people are forgetting is that PC Platinum is massively devalued vs. Console plat.

Until recently Console players couldn't even use discount codes on Platinum, and even now the system gives you bonus platinum (So if you spend £130 on the largest bundle you get 75% more plat), so there is much higher barrier of entry.

It seems reasonable to assume that console Tennogen prices were set at a roughly 1:1 ratio of Platinum cost to £ cost on steam, but if DE allowed PC platinum to buy Console Tennogen, players would be getting it for much less than its market value.

My initial assumption was that Plat balances would be platform locked, which is what most games do, but there would be an easy workaround with player trading, so you would also have to lock trading to platforms as well which would become a massive headache.

I don't love the system we have, but I can definitely see why we have it.

[GamersJournal]

pc has discounted plat thats why u cant use plat to buy tennogen there as they cant balance. When we merge except switch all platforms share the plat. Basically its either keep your plat hostage or the tennogen skins. They cant have both, if u buy on console tennogen with discounted plat from pc you are sort of making DE pay for the tennogen skin to the artist. Even with the way it is DE is gonna make some losses. There is cross trade so discounted plat will be traded between players and console players eventually will start getting discounted plat in the circulation and buy tennogen with it. Consider this too. 

[(PSN)ChaoticTKnight]

Please do not get mad at me for my stance on this. I am all for artists getting compensated for their work and I FULLY understand that this is a complicated issue... and also that Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are probably being difficult to work with.

That being said, I am not a fan of having to buy Tennogen multiple times across different platforms. E.g. if I buy Nova's Copra skin on PS4, I now also have to buy it on PC, Xbox, and Switch if I want to use it on other platforms. And before anyone says anything, yes, that scenario is unrealistic. In actuality someone like me would go between PS and PC. It's the principle I'm getting at.

(If I am misinterpreting anything here, feel free to correct me).

This makes me not want to buy Tennogen items. It feels incredibly inconvenient now. To me it's either buy the item twice or stay on one platform.

And to be clear, I have nothing against Tennogen creators and they absolutely should be compensated for their work. I just don't like the idea of having to double dip like that.

[(PSN)FoGsesipod]

  

15 hours ago, xBloodySin said:

Come back with an actual parallel to the situation and I might bother skimming through it.

Destiny 2 is also a cross save game, so ill go ahead and make a comparison from it for you:
Just because you bought forsaken on playstation - giving a cut of the price to sony - doesn't mean that steam has to honor your purchase.
Yes, in destiny 2 you do not keep the dlcs you paid for on other platforms when using cross save, you have to buy the dlc on every platform. It is literally the same situation here.
And no, just because on of them is called "DLC" and the other "Tennogen" doesn't make them different, you still pay money for these items, and a platform takes a cut of the price you paid for it.
 

20 hours ago, xBloodySin said:

A customer who buys products.

If you're a shill, keep on shilling, and stay away from concerned customers.

Also, no, just because you are a customer for warframe doesn't mean you deserve any legal documentation or official essays as to why DE cannot allow you to screw over steam/sony/microsoft/nintendo/tennogen artists. If you would like to get sued and face legal battles, go somewhere else.

Edited November 25, 2023 by (PSN)FoGsesipod

[(PSN)never3nder_87]

1 hour ago, (PSN)ChaoticTKnight said:

if I buy Nova's Copra skin on PS4, I now also have to buy it on PC, Xbox, and Switch if I want to use it on other platforms. And before anyone says anything, yes, that scenario is unrealistic. 

This isn't how it works

> Console Purchases can be used via Cross Platform Save on any (licensed) console platform. 

So the only time you'd have to re-purchase is for PC

[Romumap]

Not gonna lie, I feel kinda disappointed. I was looking forward to buy Tennogen items available on PC like Atlas' graxx Skin and some Banshee Helmets. Unfortunately, these are not available on Nintendo switch, so I was more than ok with the idea to pay real money to have them.

It is understandable that the cut-off was made to prevent people from stockpiling platinum to buy Tennogen skins on consoles, but if I had the opportunity to buy them on PC for my old account (which was unused since 2013, so it's not like I really had a reason to buy things on that account) I would gladly pay real money and support the creators.

I guess this has to be related not to Digital Extremes but to Nintendo, Sony, Etc, and how these transactions are managed across all platforms. At the end of the day, I feel a bit sad, but I understand.

At least all of the newer Tennogen is available on all platforms, so hopefully this won't be an issue with future content.

*Nevermind, I've just reread the post. So even if an item is available on all platforms, I will have to buy them twice to use them both switch and PC.

I guess buying Tennogen items will be a really difficult decision going forward since I will have to double dip on every item. Sigh... Well, there's nothing we can do now.

Edited November 25, 2023 by (NSW)Romumap
Reread article, additional thoughts. Spelling

[(PSN)kristi000]

I get that the tennogen purchases after the 24th wont transfer which im fine with but i hope i can still link my ps4 account with the pc account created after that date and get the tennogen stuff i bought before 24th to it. 😔🙏

[(PSN)FoGsesipod]

4 hours ago, (PSN)kristi000 said:

I get that the tennogen purchases after the 24th wont transfer which im fine with but i hope i can still link my ps4 account with the pc account created after that date and get the tennogen stuff i bought before 24th to it. 😔🙏

"As long as the main account that you are linking had the stuff before the 24th" paraphrased