Can the Paradox allow for more than just the Tenno to co-exist? (Spoilers)

[Zahnrad]

So, I was talking to a friend outside of Warframe about Duviri.

I still don't fully understand Duviri, but my general idea is that "Duviri" is the timeline where our Tenno refused the deal. Hence why Wally seems to have something against Duviri, Landing on a random island floating in the void and tethering or losing other islands as they drifted to and from.

But the results of the Zariman plugging the hole between the Void and Origin System has allowed the possibility for our Tenno and Drifter who had taken different paths to now co-exist.

 

That got me thinking about Whispers in the Walls we had recently.

We saw two entities that appeared to be the same yet different, and I don't feel like Wally is the type to converse inbetween himself via illusions.

 

So, my brain connected the dots. Can the paradox allow for more than one "Wally" to co-exist? And is that what we saw in Whispers? Not a single entity communicating with itself, but two clones of the same Void entity conversing with each other?

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

Well, no. The general idea is that Wally is the centerpiece of everything associated with the Void, without him we wouldn't have even ever met the Drifter. He is the one constant parallel in each alternate reality, which is why he's trying to make deals in the first place. He wants to fully come back together after Albrecht spread his pieces far and wide, which he can't currently do since we're constantly fighting him to keep everything separate. There's not literally multiple copies of him out there, just pieces of his original self he can influence and is trying to get back.

Those two entities are just copies of characters Wally can apparently make, which he does to try and understand us, as Tagfer has stated he wants to be like us but doesn't really grasp what makes us "us" since he is indifferent. He did it with Albrecht, he did it with us, he does it anytime we interact with the other Grimoire in missions through the Whisper enemy type. This is why us showing compassion to the big Vessel at the end stopped him in his tracks, and why he didn't want us to grab the final page of the Grimoire, a literal love letter. 

As for Wally talking to himself, that just seems more like a flashy reveal to show that the clone of Albrecht was still around and could be leading to more confusion. They were more finishing each others sentences than directly conversing.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

4 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

So, I was talking to a friend outside of Warframe about Duviri.

I still don't fully understand Duviri, but my general idea is that "Duviri" is the timeline where our Tenno refused the deal. Hence why Wally seems to have something against Duviri, Landing on a random island floating in the void and tethering or losing other islands as they drifted to and from.

But the results of the Zariman plugging the hole between the Void and Origin System has allowed the possibility for our Tenno and Drifter who had taken different paths to now co-exist.

 

That got me thinking about Whispers in the Walls we had recently.

We saw two entities that appeared to be the same yet different, and I don't feel like Wally is the type to converse inbetween himself via illusions.

 

So, my brain connected the dots. Can the paradox allow for more than one "Wally" to co-exist? And is that what we saw in Whispers? Not a single entity communicating with itself, but two clones of the same Void entity conversing with each other?

Very likely not, no. For a few reasons:

1) A Paradox by its definition is something that shouldn't be possible. Often used to discuss theories like the "Grandfather Paradox" in Time Travel. So you're essentially asking for the impossible to happen twice.

2) The Story basically tells/shows us that The Void acts as a "Nexus" between timelines. Its literally the only reason why the Drifter was able to cross over to the Prime Universe. The Wall of Bone is from this Nexus, The Void. For something to be a Nexus between timelines, there can only be one of it. Think of it like a spider web, The Void is the dead-center of the Web, and every timeline branching out in multiple different directions. If there's only one Void, there's only one Wall of Bone.

3) Duviri exists because the Drifter accidentally let his/her emotions run wild after the Zariman Ten Zero incident in their universe and so Conceptual Embodiment occurred. Everything in Duviri (minus Kullervo and his area) was created by the Drifter. The Wall of Bone is slowly trying to destroy it because it simply doesn't belong in the Void.

4) I'm not entirely sure where the assumption about The Wall of Bone is coming from. During Whispers he was doing exactly what he's always been doing, nudging and pushing everyone towards his own goal. We know what he wants thanks to Duviri and now the completed Grimoire with the last page seems to be key to his plans. Why he wouldn't be doing this or be capable of this on 2 fronts doesn't make sense. We literally just saw 2 of him at the end of New War, as the Wall itself and with the fake Tenno atop it. It's a classic case of someone trying to apply Human Rationale to something beyond Human. It doesn't work. How do you know he hasn't always been 2?

After Duviri the Forum was flooded with folks trying to apply the wrong kinds of theories to what was happening and everything got a bit lost. The Wall of Bone wants out of the Void and is also trying to track down his (likely) creator, Albrecht. Albrecht used his knowledge of how to manipulate the Void in order to travel back to 1999 (albeit a conceptual embodiment version of it) to try to hide from The Wall of Bone so he could protect Loid. None of this was possible until 2 huge events happened, Rell finally died and was no longer eternally trapped by holding The Wall of Bone back (Chains of Harrow/Sisyphus) and Ballas opening far too many gateways to the Void (The New War). We're not meant to understand everything as The Wall of Bone is beyond us. I would however suggest taking a look at the Computer in Albrechts Lab, it contains a whole catalogue of catchup material waiting to be read.

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, Zahnny said:

So, I was talking to a friend outside of Warframe about Duviri.

I still don't fully understand Duviri, but my general idea is that "Duviri" is the timeline where our Tenno refused the deal. Hence why Wally seems to have something against Duviri, Landing on a random island floating in the void and tethering or losing other islands as they drifted to and from.

But the results of the Zariman plugging the hole between the Void and Origin System has allowed the possibility for our Tenno and Drifter who had taken different paths to now co-exist.

 

That got me thinking about Whispers in the Walls we had recently.

We saw two entities that appeared to be the same yet different, and I don't feel like Wally is the type to converse inbetween himself via illusions.

 

So, my brain connected the dots. Can the paradox allow for more than one "Wally" to co-exist? And is that what we saw in Whispers? Not a single entity communicating with itself, but two clones of the same Void entity conversing with each other?

It really depends on what is truth and fact or not in the WF universe. If Eternalism is truth, then only one tenno can exsist, since Eternalism is about which angle we observe and experience out of all that occur in past, present and future all at once, meaning there really is no past, present or future as such and no alternates we can actually co-exsist with. However, if Eternalism isnt actually true, then there is a potential for alternate realities where each version of the tenno exsists as a unique individual.

Drifter and Tenno for instance only ever interacts inside the void, which is seperated from practically everything considered reality. And in TNW a choice is made regarding which of the two will carry on in reality, since they cant both exsist. So by the looks of it in the story one is absorbed by the other. And us changing between the two as if they were socks or underwear is just a gameplay mechanic in order to not have the choice result in cosmetics etc. that we've payed really money for just disappearing.

However for Wally those rules likely dont apply, since Wally isnt a person as such. We also dont know if Wally is unique or there are others of him, like Q in Star Trek. So Wally whom is a void entity is either unaffected by the concept of time and can appear in two places (or maybe more accurately spaces) at once as two different manifestations (Albrecht Wally and Tenno Wally) and interact with himself (that sounds nasty) at the same void of time. So it is very possible Wally is two but one and makes a reality of the hope Granny had regarding the void allowing for true interaction with Eternalism.

Though Albrecht Wally isnt really an eternalistic outcome unique in comparison to Tenno Wally, since the two are from different outcomes at different point in what we percieve as time. Since Albrecht Wally came to be long long long before the Zariman where Tenno Wally appeared, so they arent alternate outcomes from the same event. So Albrecht Wally can be the same Wally that appreared to the Tenno on the Zariman. Which really draws me more to the thought that Albrecth Wally and Tenno Wally are two seperate void entities, or they are the same and connected to a completely different situation that led to two (or more) different outcomes. Could be something as simple as a choice made by Wally, where one of the choices was to travel to the point where Albrecht enters the void and the other was to travel to the point where the deal was made with the Tenno. It's also possible that same point of outcomes led to several other outcomes aswell where Wally did something important we've seen or maybe are yet to see/experience.

We know too little about what Wally actually is and what he/it is capable of to draw any real conclussions though. But since Wally seems to be void, I'd say anything is possible due to the timeless nature and seperation it has from the laws of reality.

edit: Also some food for thought. Maybe the Zariman incident is the result of what we are about to experience, or set in motion by Wally so we could become the chosen in order to get where we need to go soon.

Edited December 27, 2023 by SneakyErvin

[TARINunit9]

I'm still not entirely clear what "The Paradox" is. It needs to be "kept at bay" in Circuit Survival, but it also sends you free archgun ammo during the orowyrm fight. It could be...

1. Wally
2. Whichever player character (Child/Drifter) you're not currently playing as
3. A more abstract concept with limited sentience
4. Another new character entirely