Feedback Gathering Eclipse Feedback Megathread

[DesecratedSage]

Quite honestly, rework the ability. I think it should work more in line with the "Acrobatic Light show" aesthetic that Mirage has, what with her Hall of Mirrors, Sleight of Hand, and Prism ability. Beams of light, or even Spotlights of a sort, may be interesting to use and can have dual purposes beyond providing the light boost and shadow boost.

[KitMeHarder]

2 hours ago, [DE]Juice said:

• We can change Eclipse to work more reliably, but may need to reduce its effectiveness when used as a Helminth ability by reducing its power, duration, or other factors.
  • Eclipse is already the 2nd most popular Helminth ability, so removing its main barrier to entry (reliability) would mean a rebalance is in order. This effectiveness reduction would not affect the ability for Mirage, only when applied from the Helminth.

Pick this one, make it a toggle. And honestly, I wish y'all would would go much more in-depth with "usage stats" or just cease to use them for justification entirely. Because in my own anecdotal experience, I'm willing to bet the bulk of this helminth's usage is in Cetus/Fortuna (where you all have already admitted it's bugged) by the Eidolon(/Orb) hunters. The people that reliably crank out 50min of usage every 2.5 hours.

The helminth ability is already sufficiently nerfed enough. If you must added something, then do something like double the energy cost or nerf the damage reduction to a new max of 65%.

2 hours ago, [DE]Juice said:

• We can fix the locations it doesn’t work correctly in (like Albrecht’s Laboratories and Open Zone areas) but leave everything else the same - including its unpredictability when moving. This would require extensive work to fix as it ties into our new lighting system but would allow Eclipse to work in these areas and any future environments.
• We can redesign the ability, so it works on the same general theme but functionally is different. For example, it could spawn beams of light nearby - standing in them provides the light boost, while standing out of them provides the shadow boost.
• Suggestions! We are open to unique suggestions from Tenno on this as well!

• Don't do the first. Too much effort for honestly no gain.
• The second could work, but with a BIG asterisk. IMO none of Pablo's suggestions sounded good. Either way too much micromanaging or way too much clunk. And no offense, but most of these types of suggestions won't be the right fix for this ability.
• Honestly, just the toggle please.

[LonelyFudgesicle]

Since toggle would be to powerful in helminth, maybe making it something similar to Elude from Baruuk would work. Basically, while not shooting you build up the darkness version for damage reduction, but when attacking start building up the damage bonus. Maybe with a ramping effect so it isn't too powerful? This would make it so you can't have your cake and eat it too, you have to choose if you want to flee and survive or stay and fight back in certain situations.

[nayneyT]

Hold to Switch Between Damage Increase / Damage Reduction

Tap to Activate selected Buff

Mirage: Leave as is

Helminth: Nerf the damage buff BUT leave the damage reduction unchanged.

People don't usually subsume Eclipse for DR so I don't see why this should be nerfed

[DevilsKnifePrime]

A toggle for eclipse would be very good. But I think the rays of light idea would be an interesting take on eclipse, with range increasing the area of which the effect is applied to you. You could even make it where which buff you get out of the dark or light buff be tied to the emissive colours just like how chroma is.

[Shadowpen]

Fix the locations it doesn't work.  Which, to be frank, is every tileset in the game.  It will be a lot of work, but it would definitely be worth it.  The ability is fun being able to move between light and shadow to change what buff you have access to.  I also recommend a visual change when the power goes off (similar to when you die with Dagath's 3 up), I suggest increasing the contrast with the ability up so that you can see and plan ahead to know when you are about to leave the light or the darkness

[Back-To-The-Soul-Flight]

If the ability nerf figure is going to be large, why not switch to hold/tap operation so the hold summons the sphere and the tap is affected by the light source on the map as it is now?

[Fogg]

I find using Eclipse in current state as frustrating as having to look up what graphics settings will make the buff more consistent. If I want to use it now I have to find the one spot on the map where I get the max damage buff then stand in place and play like a tower defense to maintain it. Please make the ability reliable, Tap/Hold cast for desired effect would be fine even if it is tuned down to be more inline with roar/xata.

If you're looking for an opportunity to retool it into something more interesting maybe make the buff grant both bonuses but they have a condition to scale up, either kills in ability range or maybe enemies in range drop motes that improve/extend the buff when they die.

I generally dislike it when the buffs are difficult or annoying to get going in such a movement based game. Titania suffers from this as well.

[Vroseppi]

Please make it a toggle!

[ClaimingKarma]

Id love it if initial cast it just took a look at energy color for initial state.

"recasting" the ability caused it to shift between dark and light - removing ability to toggle for helminth.

I think most players are only using it for damage boost anyway. Evasion while it does help with damage it's not reliable damage mitigation. you can't give us 100% evasion and getting hit when the bullets are instant death without shield gating, or some other type of damage reduction/capping doesn't work out so well.

 

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

I vote Toggle.

But a thought I had to preserve the light/dark element of the ability is after you've chosen one maybe the buff is at 100% while in the correct area light/dark but 50% when you're not. 

[EverlyNyx]

You could give it an aura/circle like Ivara's quiver subsume, so you're casting it and you stand in the light/dark to get its effects (would be affected by range, ideally) 

[Okaazkul]

Make it a tap-hold. but my suggestion for Helminth is to only give the Shadow bonus (with no nerf compare to Mirage future version). Why ? Because the damage bonus function like Rhino's Roar who is also available in Helminth and the majority of people who use Eclipse use it for it's damage bonus, and we lack defensive ability in Helminth compare to offensive one.
 

Edited January 26 by Okaazkul

[GokuIsa]

Toggle

[Arren]

Make eclipse a TAP/ HOLD ability with SNAPCHATTING, while RETAINING the DURATION & PERCENT based mechanics. Doing so will let the players decide whether to make use of the brightness or darkness bonus of eclipse and let them carry it to other areas regardless of light levels for the given ability duration.

Snapchatting current light levels when the ability is used and let eclipse carry that percentage for its whole active duration. This way you only run one light level check at the start of ability cast, removing the need to run checks every time there is a change in environmental/ location light levels or when Mirage moves.

This will also let you activate eclipse strategically, letting you carry the bonus for a selected area to another battlefield.

Reverse the triggers for the bonus as well;

Light will increase Mirage's defense, giving you increased survivability when eclipse is activated at bright areas or during intense, flashy, eye-blinding fights (Just like depicting the shining armor of a knight or crusader, or a defense increase buff of sorts from a cleric). Possible additional effect is when hall of mirrors is active and eclipse (light) is used, doppelgangers get a slight damage boost to help you out of a sticky situation (like what the Total Eclipse mods do).

Darkness will increase Mirage's offense, activating eclipse at dark areas will give damage bonus (like how assassins gets damage buffs at dark areas).

IF in the future Open World locations are fixed to work properly with eclipse, there would be an increase in the number of players scrambling to find caves, covers, or huts for the damage bonus. 🤣

[ArcusVeles]

If it has to be nerfed in order to allow an increase for its reliability, then I suggest having Eclipse be an effect that builds up over time based on the strength of nearby light/darkness sources, and to get the full effect of the ability, you should have to absorb and maintain both at least a little continually.  Add a visual on the frame itself where she's radiant around the edges when she's absorbed a lot of light and darker at the core when she's absorbed dark (you know, like an Eclipse) + a visual for when you're drawing in particles of dark/light from your surroundings (and stop when it's full), and viola, visual clarity.

As for how it operates as an ability, augment, and as an infused ability, I would really like for it to be a channeled ability with the light/dark resources decaying over time (scaled inversely with duration), have Total Eclipse allow people to absorb particles while they're in range (and have them decay when they're out of range), and as an infused ability decrease the decay rate so non-Mirage users don't get nearly as much of the combined/peak benefit as Mirage herself does.

I think making the ability more reliable is the most important thing, but it definitely could use some cool/unique factor added to it too, if it's getting a soft rework like this.  Anything that does both of these is fine in my book.

[DTaina]

I vote for the toggle and nerfing it on the Helminth.  

[-CM-OmegaRaptor]

Here's an Idea: Make Eclipse's buff depend on the % of shields you have.

So at 100% shields you will have the full weapon damage buff. As you take damage you will lose your damage buff until you hit ~40% remaining shields, then switch to Reducing the damage you take. Then full damage reduction buff at 0% shields (when you'll want DR the most). Possible overcharge buff with overshields? Also make it a channeled ability since you can just recast it during it's duration in it's current iteration.

Making it a toggle is the worst idea possible. People will just leave it on light mode and you might as well have just thrown out the DR half.

[EdDiesel]

Perhaps a tap/hold feature with a slight twist. Using the ability will allow the player to activate both buffs except one buff will be considered primary and the other as secondary. For example tap activation will apply both buffs, the damage bonus will be considered primary and the damage reduction secondary. For hold activation the opposite occurs.  This will allow players to have both buffs active and choose which buff they would like to prioritize. The Primary buff would receive higher bonus over secondary.

e.g

-Tap Activation-

Damage: 100% bonus

Damage Reduction: 25% bonus

The base values would swap based on how the ability is activated (tap/hold).

In addition, If player is in a lit area the damage bonus buff would increase vise versa if standing in non lit area.

[The_Thinker93]

Just throwing my hat in, while I would like for some sort of toggle for eclipse, I worry about the nerf being severe enough to make Roar superior in every situation if that is the route gone down as the scale of it's buff to weapons is the only Reason I would use it over Roar in higher level (Steel Path lvl 200+) missions.

A possible way to change the ability without needing to nerf it too much would be to scale the Light/Shadow buff with a stack system based on hits taken. I.E., when you are not taking hits, Eclipse stacks up to the full damage boost, but as you take hits, it shifts stacks to the the damage resistance buff, and even goes entirely to damage resistance if you take enough hits, but will shift back to damage boosting if you stop taking damage. You could even make it function so that both buffs start at Zero, and then the ability slowly builds stacks to ramp up over time to the full value. It could even be changed to a channeled ability with a drain over time based on how much it has ramped up.

Note: I would scale this based on INSTANCES of damage, instead of AMOUNT of damage taken, i.e. many small hits will shift Eclipse stacks entirely to the damage resistance side, but a single very large hit (assuming you survive) would only move one stack.

I envision it roughly as you cast the ability, and its Buff start at zero, and gains one stack a second up to 10 stacks total (Scale max stacks with power strength? Reduce max stacks/scaling for the Helminth?), Every second you don't take damage,a stack goes to the damage boost, and if you take damage during that second, a stack goes to the damage resistance buff. If the ability is at max stacks, they shift over one at a time each second based on being hit or not each second. Another MMO game I play has a Trait that works similar this, giving you conditional damage bonus/resistance based on how much you are being hit and I absolutely love that Trait even though its not particularly strong either way.

Eclipse is a pure weapon boosting ability, and as is, synergies really well with the Combat Discipline mod (The aura that damages you as you kill enemies) and the Arcane Avenger ... Arcane (the one that gives you bonus critical chance when you git hit) so long as you have some method of healing yourself. This sort of conditional buff based of hits taken would remove that synergy. (Though I suppose you could use Eclipse and Combat Discipline for deliberate tank improvement if you want)

This even has a thematic animation/effect that could be done for Mirage. Currently, the only noticeable indication that eclipse is active is the buff icons which can often be simply missed if you don't pay enough attention, but Mirage could "summon a veil of light that cloaks herself to increase her weapons effectiveness", giving her some sort of glow that gets brighter or dimmer based on where the ability stacks go (She glows brightest when Eclipse is fully stacked to Light/damage buff, and dimmest when stacked to Shadow/Resistance Buff).

If you go with something else like a tap/hold toggle, a possible way to Nerf eclipse without hurting it too badly might be to make the damage boost work like Xata's whisper or Nourish and give a bonus Radiation damage with no extra status chance to your weapons as her Prism ability already deals Radiation damage with no status chance so it would be in keeping with what she already does. In this instance, and going with no extra effects, I would give it a much higher damage boost than Nourish or Xata's whisper as those abilities have other bonuses that make them good other than raw damage output. (Xata's has the bullet attractor status effect and it gives void damage which nothing resists, and Nourish has the energy income boost and Viral is a REALLY useful status effect)

I hope you guys at DE find this somewhat long winded post useful.

[Kitsora.]

What if eclipse was a siphon. Being in the light will let you build up the solar eclipse (dmg buff) with the stronger the light source the faster the build up. And being in the dark will slowly drain the solar eclipse. This will be vice versa for lunar eclipse (dmg reduction). If you don’t want both lunar and solar to be active together, you could make it a toggle. 
 

It will also be interesting if you could use eclipse to buff up other mirage’s ability. Such as prism will steadily drain solar eclipse buff (if you have any) and sleight of hand being a fixed drain. 

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Tap/Hold with rebalance :

• Tap => Damage buff, nerfed (but not to the ground tho), helminth version follows.
• Hold => Damage reduction, Higher strength requirements for Damage Reduction % cap at 90%

[SomberSylph]

I've played a lot of Mirage and I think you'll never get people to agree on what they want her to be. Here is my personal take on what I think Mirage needs to feel cohesive. I envision her as a skirmisher playing with the light to both confuse and hide from her enemies. Randomness has been a part of her kit with the ball going wherever it wants and Eclipse not behaving, but I think it would be more beneficial gameplay wise for that to no longer be the case.

Mirage should be set to Light or Dark mode based on Ability cast of Hall of Mirrors or Eclipse and have the corresponding Icon above the ability bar for quick reference. Light/Dark mode abilities are all or nothing when active.

Hall of Mirrors

• Now re-castable
• Puts Mirage in light mode
• Contains the Light buff from Eclipse
• If eclipse is active, Blinds enemies in within 5m for 2 seconds
• Turns off Eclipse

Sleight of Hand

• I don't really care about this ability, IMO something better could go here, but if it stays w/e. People that play SO/ESO will complain so I get if you can't change it. 
• Alternative Mirage manipulating Light in her environment and it would remove the mutual exclusivity between HoM and Eclipse I'm proposing by creating zones of Light that blind enemies that walk in or zones of Dark that Enemies can't really see through. Zones could be a press/hold like Vauban 4 starting as dark and the turning on the light or vice versa

Eclipse

• If Hall of Mirrors is active, become invisible for 2 seconds
• Turns off Hall of Mirrors
• Puts Mirage in dark mode
• Maintains DR for remaining duration

Prism

• Light mode Prism acts the exact same, except will follow the cursor while aiming.
• Dark mode Prism creates and area of darkness that absorbs incoming fire making you and your allies harder to hit.

 

This is my rough outline, but I'm just hoping you do right by Mirage with whatever changes you make for us players.

[Regular_World]

Tap/Hold is definetely the way to go.

I feel like the original on mirage should not be nerfed, and the helminth version if needed to be nerfed, should cost 75 energy instead of 25. And/Or give 125% bonus damage instead of the 200% it is now.

Also the Damage Reduction cap should be as it is now (95% on mirage and 75% in the helminth).

[commandercross]

I think a neat way to balance it would be to tie it to movement. Keep moving, parkouring and firing to build up the damage, keeping mirage in the bright stage spotlights, while staying still or crouching/sliding would be to calm it down, dim the lights, and get the damage reductions. Of course, nerf it for helminth as it's pretty easy to keep the damage buff up.