Gauss is Too Slow and Easily Outclassed in Speed

[Venmere]

Gauss seems fast but really isn't and is difficult to mod into speed in comparison to other warframes. For example, Volt can easily achieve faster speeds with ability strength that is much higher than Gauss's.

A list of some warframes that easily achieve speeds faster than Gauss's Mach Rush even when well modded into sprint speed:

• Volt [Ability strength and Infested Mobility subsume using]
• Voruna [Parkour speed and Shroud of Dynar parkour velocity with bullet jump]
• Hydroid [Casting speed and ability range with Tidal Surge]
• Zephyr [Using Tail Wind although I am not sure if this can be made faster, but it already goes about as fast if not already faster than Mach Rush]
• Wukong [Using Cloud Walker and similar methods to Hydroid]
• Titania [Using Razorwing and similar methods to Volt]
• Excalibur [Slash Dash melee cancel can fling the player at extreme speeds as well as can be modded to be faster than Mach Rush potentially]
• Grendel [Even Grendel in Pulverize with parkour speed can gain much higher momentum than Mach Rush]
• Not really including archwings but they are more preferred for open world travel.

Some of the warframe with parkour speed mods and yellow archon shards reach speed on much higher scales than Mach Rush when well-focused into sprint speed.  This along with Gauss Prime's trailer advertising him as being extremely faster than a bullet almost feel betraying and falsely advertised as he does not reach nearly as high speeds.

Addressing the issue with moving too fast in Warframe

Yes, being fast is fun but you have probably already noticed that going to fast in the game can affect how the ability to react and control your character in order to play. I honestly think that if a player chooses to be this fast in the game that if they can manage the skill to move this fast, they should be rewarded.

My solution to this issue would be to increase the speed and scaling of sprint speed for Mach Rush extremely but, start its speed at the normal threshold and allow the player to adjust the speed of Mach Rush using right/left click or right/left trigger to increase and decrease speed to reward those who want to go that fast and those who might want to use Mach Rush when traveling in open world.

Ultimately adding a way to adjust speed in Mach Rush would make Gauss as fast as he is intended to look and give players the speed they actually want without making Gauss too difficult to control or mess with current modding systems.

A side note of features that I believe would make Gauss more enjoyable without altering his functions.

Here is a list of things that would make Gauss more entertaining in my opinion:

• Custom parkour animations, I would like to see him have more sprinting based parkour like dashes forward etc.
• Mach Rush can be difficult getting over small objects that you may have constantly crashed into, so why not decrease his collision box into a small dot that can also move down when sliding and when Gauss visually appears to be about to hit something have him be animated to do a high-speed leap over it; kind of like what is seen with him dodging through the door crack in his prime trailer.
• When evasion activates in Mach Rush have Gauss visibly do a blurry dodge to visualize how fast he is moving during Mach Rush

To summarize, just animated visual changes to Gauss to emphasize how fast he moves and make him more entertaining to watch/use as well as a collision quality of life change for Mach Rush.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Lmao, we are not playing the same game.

My Gauss build is not outsped by a full strength Volt. Not by a long shot. And he could even be faster if I swapped my red archon shards of duration into parkour velocity yellow ones (they also increase sprint speed btw).

Consists of slapping every possible sprint speed mod, the sprint speed aura and coaction drift; but also using a primary with Amalgam Serration and using the Praedos' incarnon perks that increase mobility. Lastly, Infested Mobility replaces Thermal Sunder.

The sizeable advantage I have of using this Gauss build over anything else is that I still get a huge buff from redline, despite not having all duration mods (I actually decrease it with Fleeting Expertise to pretty much negate any energy cost), meanwhile, all these frames you point out that "go faster" (they do not) all have to sacrifice something of note in order to achieve their peak, save maybe Zephyr who can dump range as it's only useful for her 2.

And then there's Titania, which is objectively speaking the fastest, though it's to a fault. Funny memes occur when razorwing blitz is used at 300%+ strength and with infested mobility (then you're in fissures and you get double ability strength from the reactant because haha funni), but it is not actually usable, which defeats the whole idea of "going fast". Like sure, you're going fast, but you're going so fast you're not even able to actually play the game, it's pointless. Mach Rush's restrictive movement is what keeps Gauss playable, whereas absurd strength Razorwing blitz does not.

 

As for collision QoL, that's coming with Dante Unbound, next week. In previous Devstreams, we were told they were working on making the collision model less rough and smoother around the corners so that we do not get stuck in them anymore. We'll have to see it tested with our own broken speed frames, but I'd say they probably gave it enough thought.

[Venmere]

1. No, yellow archon shards with parkour velocity do not increase sprint speed at all. T-T
2. I have made a pure speed Gauss build and I have seen pure speed Volt build in which Gauss is completely outclassed, here is an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N54717V0Js0

3. The warframes that sacrifice for speed have to sacrifice much less than Gauss to become easily faster.
4. I already made the point of too much speed being a problem which is why I suggested it to be adjustable for those who are skilled enough to benefit from it.
5. I wasn't talking about sticky corners; I was talking about Gauss's limited turn speed causing him to crash directly into railings and small objects kicking him out of Mach Rush

P.S Grendel goes as fast a pure speed Gauss build with minimal modding into it and much faster if fully.

[KesslerCOIL]

Personally I feel the primary issue with Gauss's 1 is that there is such a heavy restriction on turn speed, so it's basically useless on a ton of tiles unless you're happy with just doing the short bursts.

[Birdframe_Prime]

While I'm not going to say you're wrong, because Gauss is not actually all that fast of a frame when you place him on a tier list...

I have to keep asking this of players that want him to be faster: Why?

There is no reason for any of these frames to be as fast as they are.

Zephyr's Tailwind will not only gain speed the longer your Duration is (you accelerate for the Duration of the animation, meaning you're faster at the other end the longer the animation lasts), but can also gain more with Jet Stream.

Titania with her Razorwing Augment doesn't even need any further buffs to cross the open landscapes in a matter of seconds.

And everyone, every single person that I've seen talking about this, has forgotten that the single fastest frame in the game is Nova with Warp, able to cross distances so fast that the game can't actually load the next tiles fast enough.

There is nothing in Warframe that actually needs us to do this.

Forget usability, forget problems with the speed itself. There is no reason for us to go this fast, because anywhere that speed matters, it's not straight-line speed, it's Mobility, the option to not just go fast, but go fast around corners and weaving between obstacles that DE deliberately places in every single tile.

Gauss is perfectly fast enough as he is, because he can wall-crash and instantly recover to keep going in a new direction, which a lot of frames currently cannot.

[NeDesitVirtus]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

There is nothing in Warframe that actually needs us to do this.

Forget usability, forget problems with the speed itself. There is no reason for us to go this fast, because anywhere that speed matters, it's not straight-line speed, it's Mobility, the option to not just go fast, but go fast around corners and weaving between obstacles that DE deliberately places in every single tile.

Gauss is perfectly fast enough as he is, because he can wall-crash and instantly recover to keep going in a new direction, which a lot of frames currently cannot.

Exactly this. 

[Venmere]

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I have to keep asking this of players that want him to be faster: Why?

There is nothing in Warframe that actually needs us to do this.

 has forgotten that the single fastest frame in the game is Nova with Warp,

 

I never said it was required, I said it should be optional should someone want to go that fast for fun and believe that it was disappointing that the one warframe that is themed on that principle isn't even that fast. The general idea is it is a game; game = fun; more fun = better game.

As for practical application of speed I have used the extreme speed in Circuit with Mach Rush to keep enemies stunned and effectively not get hit at all. The faster you are (if you can control it) the faster you can kill enemies or even crowd control with normally single target methods.

I wouldn't consider Nova fast because of the impracticality of using Warp in combat. All Warp is good for is transportation, not speed; good if you need to go A-B, not good if you need to go A-B-C-D-E in a circle or some other oddly shaped room in quick succession. Not to mention the problem with Warp portals being left around in tighter rooms should you try it.

[Birdframe_Prime]

12 hours ago, Venmere said:

The general idea is it is a game; game = fun; more fun = better game.

Yes.

So..... here's the relevant question: What if there are as many players that find the game more 'fun' if Gauss stuck to the speed you can achieve now? Or even: What if people genuinely think it's fine and they find their fun in the other abilities Gauss has and don't really think much of his theme beyond flavour?

There is a reason that people on the Forums do not argue 'fun' as part of the discussion, and why many people you will meet here with more than a few thousand comments don't even bring it up in reply to other topics. It's an opinion, and opinions hold exactly as much weight as other opinions, so the second somebody with a counter-opinion shows up, it's cancelled out. All that matters in these discussions is the functional and factual.

Annoying as that is.

12 hours ago, Venmere said:

I wouldn't consider Nova fast because of the impracticality of using Warp in combat

Ah, no, key misunderstanding. If you're talking about usability in combat, that's not speed. That's mobility. Two different things. Warp is amazing for speed. Warp is not amazing for mobility as it can only go point-to-point.

Speed with control is Mobility. A frame that is functionally slower than Gauss in a straight line may have more mobility because they aren't over-shooting a specific stopping point or are able to turn and access another direction more quickly.

This is why Zephyr is considered fast overall, because her Jet Stream allows for faster sprinting, her Passive allows for more precise jumps and landings, and her Tailwind can be used to bypass many obstacles when used judiciously. However, when using Tailwind her Speed is increased at the direct risk to her Mobility as it can get her stuck into places that are difficult to get out of without coming to a complete stop and turning around.

Much like the 'fun' argument, getting your terminology correct is very, very important to the discussion.

So yes, Nova is fast. So fast she can break the game with a single button press and a step. Always has been.

Gauss, on the other hand, has more Mobility because he's slower than Nova.

This is the underlying point to my first question:

Why?

When I say there's nothing that needs this kind of speed, I mean even for the uses you have for it, you don't need to be faster. You want more consistency, which doesn't require more speed.

Put this another way, if you will: Your goal on these Forums is to convince the Developers to make a change you want. What logical, functional reason can you come up with that will make them dedicate paid hours of their Dev team to code, test and then implement the change for a future update? And why is it compelling enough that other players will be genuinely disappointed if DE do not do it?

Rule of cool, the concept of 'fun', the Lore... these are all frequently used arguments by players. They are also very, very weak arguments to present to people that would have to pay their staff to do something.

And I'm not saying this to put you, or your request, down. You just have to... convince people.

Like the TF2 Spy says, I don't want your bucket of chicken, I'm not one of those cheap girls, I am refined and elegant and I want you to seduce me. So go on, seduce me. [Waggles eyebrows]

[Prof-Dante]

On 2024-03-22 at 12:13 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

There is no reason for us to go this fast

Dopamine.

 

On 2024-03-22 at 5:00 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Ah, no, key misunderstanding. If you're talking about usability in combat, that's not speed. That's mobility. Two different things. Warp is amazing for speed. Warp is not amazing for mobility as it can only go point-to-point.

I guess you can't have it all, I for one sometimes need a frame with absolute control over his speed, he can go as fast as he can and as slow as he wants, Zephyr comes to mind, she has two speed buffs, so you can tweak both in a way that gives you more options while moving.

And Fun is an important factor by the way, don't brush it off, it's very important, Imagine if they reduced Volt's speed buff to only 20% because it doesn't matter whether speed is fun or not.

we play this game because we enjoy it, that's the abridged and raw version of why we all play Warframe, you can't boot up the game and not expect to have at least some sort of fun.
but as much as people enjoy being super tanky and deal a lot of damage, some people get that same enjoyment from playing fast Warframes, it's a necessity for them.

 

when I used to main Gauss, I practically couldn't play any other Warframe because they were too slow, not just in movement but in playstyle as well...Right now, I've expanded my interests. but I still understand people who ask for a Gauss Speed buff.

On 2024-03-22 at 5:00 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Nova is fast. So fast she can break the game with a single button press and a step. Always has been.

hmm, max Range and efficiency? 280%?

Edited March 24 by Qorvex99

[Birdframe_Prime]

16 minutes ago, Qorvex99 said:

And Fun is an important factor by the way, don't brush it off, it's very important

It's incredibly important.

It's just completely un-quantifiable. When every single person's perception of it is different, then it can't be used for logical debate.

In your example, what if they reduced Volt's Speed by 20% because more people found it 'fun' that way? You would feel cheated of the function, but at the same time, all of them would feel validated.

Still, that said, there really isn't a reason for faster speed on speed abilities. We kind of need a function that gives greater control of the speed we already have.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Le 21/03/2024 à 23:13, Birdframe_Prime a dit :

Gauss is perfectly fast enough as he is, because he can wall-crash and instantly recover to keep going in a new direction, which a lot of frames currently cannot.

Not only he can recover instantly from crashing, he benefits from doing so if Kinetic Plating is up or if you're using Mach Crash or if you're running in your Thermal Sunder fields or any combination of these three.

Mach Rush isn't just a max speed thing, it's also a fantastic tool for acceleration, since you just get a running start with a quick tap. Having more ways to manipulate his mobility than pressing W is a big deal, especially when it's a tool that's actually usable in combat situations and most importantly : you can stop on a dime without drifting or having your momentum carry you past where you intended to stop/turn.

[Venmere]

On 2024-03-22 at 11:00 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

What if there are as many players that find the game more 'fun' if Gauss stuck to the speed you can achieve now?

It's just completely un-quantifiable.

That's mobility. Two different things. Warp is amazing for speed. Warp is not amazing for mobility as it can only go point-to-point.

This is why Zephyr is considered fast overall, because her Jet Stream allows for faster sprinting, her Passive allows for more precise jumps and landings, and her Tailwind can be used to bypass many obstacles when used judiciously.

I stated should be an option, just don't mod Gauss for speed if you don't care but it should be available to accommodate everyone; that would mean more fun overall since it satisfies all parties {more fun (fun can't be quantified per individual but by the amount of people who confirm a positive or negative)], not to mention you could just subsume Mach Rush if you don't care for it. 

Teleporting bends space time to converge two points in space, there is no velocity besides walking into the portal; the bigger issue is that it takes time to aim the portals in comparison to how it is easier to aim direction while sprint/etc.

I can see Zephyr as fast in terms of velocity and mobility but because of how it can fail to keep momentum in hallways in terms or lifting off, getting caught on the ceiling or objects, and its casting time I would consider her less maneuverable than Gauss or at least take a long time to master and a decent amount of skill to get it to work effectively along with canceling it to redirect yourself quickly being a struggle and not so quick at all in terms of it.

[Birdframe_Prime]

12 hours ago, Venmere said:

I stated should be an option, just don't mod Gauss for speed if you don't care

That isn't the point of my response.

My point is always this: When you have a team of people that you have to pay to do the work, test and then implement things into the game, you need more of a reason than 'I think a lot of people would find it fun'. I mean, yeah, that's sometimes the reason that DE do things, but rarely.

Gauss is 'fast' in a specific way, and mechanically and functionally in the game he doesn't need to be faster.

The key thing is that if you want him to be faster, DE would have to go in and tweak him, and that takes time away from things they would otherwise be doing. Like trying to minimise the bugs on the current update, bringing out an entirely new frame and quest before TennoCon (which they've promised to attempt at the PAX panel), or using the same part of the dev team for Abilities to fix frames that are in considerable need of fixing.

So... you have to at least attempt to give more of a reason than 'it would let some players have more fun'.

No change is free. Got to make it worth it.

And, most importantly, you have to make it worth it more than quite a lot of other changes in the game, because where somebody requesting that Valkyr's 4th gets a rework because of how bad it is, Gauss is incredibly good. He's pretty incredible, to be fair. Changing him to make 'pretty incredible' into 'even better' is a harder sell than making 'Oh my hecking science, why does this animation lock me into complete immobility while using one of the shortest range Abilities in the world?!?!' into 'Hey, these slice-and-dice claws are pretty okay.'

Do you see the logic?

12 hours ago, Venmere said:

Teleporting bends space time to converge two points in space, there is no velocity besides walking into the portal; the bigger issue is that it takes time to aim the portals in comparison to how it is easier to aim direction while sprint/etc.

You... are trying to apply a physics discussion to 'I can get from A to B in a shorter time than you' category. Not the point, not what you think it is at least. And, for reference, it takes the exact same amount of time to aim a teleport that it does to aim a sprint direction, it's aiming, it's as fast as your own reaction times. A mis-aim in either case causes shorter distance travelled than meant, or ending up at a different point to where you meant. When aim and reaction time are equal, Nova gets to the destination so fast it legitimately breaks the game's loading time and causes tiles to not properly render before you enter them, no other frame can do that, we checked when other teleport frames are released.

12 hours ago, Venmere said:

I can see Zephyr as fast in terms of velocity and mobility but because of how it can fail to keep momentum in hallways in terms or lifting off, getting caught on the ceiling or objects, and its casting time I would consider her less maneuverable than Gauss or at least take a long time to master and a decent amount of skill to get it to work effectively along with canceling it to redirect yourself quickly being a struggle and not so quick at all in terms of it.

And this one, yeah, exactly this. It's a practice thing with many frames. Zephyr is considered overall quite fast, but as you've pointed out, requires a bit of skill. Gauss does the same, and is functionally more forgiving when impacts happen on scenery.

That's still kind of a side-tangent from the point.

[Venmere]

15 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

pay to do the work, test and then implement things into the game

This was never about the work of it and is completely off topic but as a note, it does not take much programming know how to add a slider that increases a value with a button press let alone that increasing Mach Rush's speed scaling with sprint speed would not have any adverse effects on the code unless DE really messes up.
Most of what I hoped DE would do is just put it on the to-do list.

15 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

You... are trying to apply a physics discussion to 'I can get from A to B in a shorter time than you'

Well, yes, the whole argument was over warframes that actually move, not relocate/teleport. Two entirely different themes of travel and function.

[Birdframe_Prime]

15 hours ago, Venmere said:

This was never about the work of it and is completely off topic

No, it really isn't.

If pointing out that changes you want the Devs to make to the game involve Dev time and Dev testing is somehow, magically, off topic to any discussion of changes that you want to make in Warframe, then you're misunderstanding the point of 'feedback to the Developers'.

15 hours ago, Venmere said:

Well, yes, the whole argument was over warframes that actually move, not relocate/teleport. Two entirely different themes of travel and function.

And again, you're trying to read the mode of travel into 'who gets there faster'.

Teleporting gets there faster than running.

This kind of word definition is like the difference between a kilo of feathers and a kilo of lead. They're the same weight, but very different substances. What we're talking about is 'going faster', whether that's teleporting or running there, 'going faster' is the discussion.

Do you see the pointlessness of trying to split hairs on whether one is running or teleporting in the context of the task?

[Venmere]

4 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Do you see the pointlessness of trying to split hairs on whether one is running or teleporting in the context of the task?

If the point was just getting to point A-B then that would be a valid argument, but the argument is that Gauss doesn't even specialize that well in speed (actually moving not relocating) even though his theme is being the epitome of movement speed. Same argument applies to Rhino not having the most armor despite his theme being the epitome strong armor and resilience as a tank and being his biggest "specialty," despite being outclassed in tanking easily and likely including crowd control. Going back to Gauss, he doesn't specialize in speed if he is easily outclassed by several other warframes and is contradictory to his theme and what intrigues players to use him other than just being a good warframe.
 

4 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

This was never about the work of it and is completely off topic

I have presented a perfectly reasonably done objective that may take someone about 40min or less to code into the game with no issue. My main reasoning to argue was validifying an opinionated issue with Gauss to the DE dev team in hope they would put it on a to-do list somewhere and not leave Gauss in a sorry state when it comes to specializing.

[Birdframe_Prime]

17 minutes ago, Venmere said:

If the point was just getting to point A-B then that would be a valid argument

None of it's a valid argument, if you refer back to my original point: There is literally no need for him to be faster than he is, even when you just say 'the option' or 'for fun'.

This is because the former is Dev work and latter is subjective and other people would find it less fun and like their build to have the exact effect it currently does.

In any case, Gauss doesn't specialise in speed. Gauss specialises in charging and discharging a Battery for various effects on himself and others. Lore, sure, but in Lore Atlas punched an entire asteroid base into pieces and he notably does not do that in game.

None of the frames specialise in speed. Not even Volt, who has a literal Ability called Speed.

Rhino's theme is not being the epitome of strong armour. Rhino is the 'heaviest' frame, which is why his passive is Heavy Impact, and his 4 is him stomping so hard that he warps time. His specialisation is in Iron Skin, yes, and you can not only spec into that, you can Augment three of his casts to truly specialise into it.

20 minutes ago, Venmere said:

My main reasoning to argue was validifying an opinionated issue with Gauss

Exactly, and you unfortunately haven't validated it. You've expressed it, and when all you're doing is expressing your opinion, then a single person (yes, me) playing Devil's Advocate can nullify that by arguing for opinion that they shouldn't - or even just don't need to - do what you're suggesting. This is because, much like fun, opinions are only worth the exact same as another person's, and they can cancel out.

[Venmere]

22 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

In any case, Gauss doesn't specialise in speed.

That's the problem, he is advertised around that being his theme (speed/sprinter warframe) which was the theme for all of his abilities about overheating and such over going really fast; Ultimately, he can't specialize in his theme as advertised. Why would I think to play the flying bird to go fast rather than the speedster. Let alone why would I purchase anything Gauss or for Gauss if I like speedsters and know Gauss isn't one of them. Though that question is from the third person, but I bet that reasoning alone would be enough to deter players a bit who want him for that reason.

22 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

There is literally no need for him to be faster than he is

Yeah, but neither is there a need for him to have general speed

 

22 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

None of it's a valid argument

The point was that he could specialize as his theme intends. Not to mention if anyone was bought Gauss Prime and felt ripped off that he was much slower than he was advertised up to be especially in comparison to some other warframes. Also, you just called your own argument "Do you see the pointlessness of trying to split hairs on whether one is running or teleporting in the context of the task?" invalid, I'm confused.

22 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

worth the exact same as another person's, and they can cancel out.

You said, "It's just completely un-quantifiable." (in reference to emotions/opinions [formulated emotional reasoning]) in contraction to this statement; you didn't need to tell me this. Also, all opinions are valid but not valid to everyone which is what I wanted DE to validify for themselves with the rhetoric post.

22 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Exactly, and you unfortunately haven't validated it. You've expressed it

That would be the first step, not the end goal as I stated.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, Venmere said:

Also, you just called your own argument

I'm playing Devil's Advocate, I can call my own argument out for being pointless, especially when it's doing the exact task of pointing out a pointless argument.

2 hours ago, Venmere said:

That would be the first step, not the end goal as I stated.

Yes, the first step.

Where's step two through twelve?

Look...

This is getting actually silly. No matter how much you nit-pick my responses, you literally do not have any reason for DE to actually listen to you other then 'Well, would be a lot cooler if you did...'

And that's the follow up that you actually need. The lack of it is what I'm pointing out.

I do, in fact, not care if Gauss gets faster or not, it doesn't matter to me.

What does matter to me is getting people to actually back up their opinions and wants with valid reasons. It's the specific thing that distinguishes any request from a simple childish demand ^^

If you can't convince a random guy on the Forums who doesn't actually care either way, and is completely open to an objective and reasoned argument, then how do you convince DE?

[NotSoMunchyPotato]

Semi-joking: Gauss's speed should scale off of sprint speed, ability strength, casting speed and ability range and its base should be doubled. and it should also add the sprint speeds of the entire squad together for no reason at all. Dopamine.

[Joezone619]

I don't see gauss as a speedster frame. His theme isn't "go fast", his theme is "kenetic energy" to me. You can completely remove his speed ability and be totally fine, i did in favor of "infested mobility" from helminth for more control over his speed.

[Venmere]

10 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

I don't see gauss as a speedster frame. His theme isn't "go fast", his theme is "kenetic energy" to me.

Overall, yeah, I agree but he doesn't exactly specialize in standing still or going slower than slow either; Frost better fits that bill and other defense warframes. XD

[Venmere]

On 2024-03-29 at 7:21 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Yes, the first step.

Where's step two through twelve?

Look...

 

Actually, it is three steps.

1. Make post about potentially wanted change that I would like to see implemented.
2. People reply enough and agree enough with post to get DE to notice it.
3. DE put it on the to-do list and eventually it is implemented into the game.
 

On 2024-03-29 at 7:21 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

What does matter to me is getting people to actually back up their opinions and wants with valid reasons. It's the specific thing that distinguishes any request from a simple childish demand ^^

K, cool, you're a troll, not like I was trying to reply to you in a timely manner. And as you seen, I gave valid reasoning in my replies for this request, no? Let alone that I made a post with reasonable arguments to begin with and a needless argument over semantics in the comments to illustrate the point of the request.
 

On 2024-03-29 at 7:21 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

'Well, would be a lot cooler if you did...'

Exactly? I don't think you understand the point of player feedback. DE provides a game (a form of entertainment) as a product. The more entertaining it is the more profit the developers make. The profit DE makes is through microtransactions and gaining/retaining players to buy those microtransactions. By DE adhering to what players want the more players are likely retained playing the game or playing the game longer in turn likely to spend more money on in-game microtransactions. The more entertaining a game is the more popularity it gains, and more players join and likely buy things. In this case it would be should players spend money or time on Gauss if he isn't as entertaining as a majority of the player base would like him to be. Hence this post would be reason/incentive (if step two is successful) to add the suggested features to Gauss.

That is the reason game companies gather player feedback, to create a more valuable and enticing product. As well as other reasons for example, DE occasionally wants to make something enjoyable or something they can be proud of as a respectful company.

 

On 2024-03-29 at 7:21 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

I'm playing Devil's Advocate, I can call my own argument out for being pointless

Never said you couldn't, just curious as to the reason.
 

[Venmere]

On 2024-03-29 at 7:21 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

If you can't convince a random guy on the Forums who doesn't actually care either way, and is completely open to an objective and reasoned argument, then how do you convince DE?

You're one person, I don't need to convince you but rather I want you to understand the eligibility of my request because I'm bored.

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2024-04-03 at 8:18 AM, Venmere said:

You're one person, I don't need to convince you but rather I want you to understand the eligibility of my request because I'm bored.

Never said it wasn't eligible as a request.

Just questioning both its reason to exist and its validity as a point that DE should even consider.

On 2024-04-03 at 8:15 AM, Venmere said:

K, cool, you're a troll

No, I'm genuinely trying to argue the point here.

The more you push your reasons as valid when they aren't, the more I'm going to push back.

Because you haven't provided valid reasons for this change to be made. You've provided the opinion that it should. Why would DE follow your third step when there are legitimate reasons against doing so?

On 2024-04-03 at 8:15 AM, Venmere said:

I don't think you understand the point of player feedback.

I don't think you understand the point of a Forum. Feedback section or otherwise.

It's short for a 'Forum of your Peers'. Where you come to have your idea discussed and either agreed with or disagreed with by people like you, players of the game.

As far as any actual discussion has proved on the topic, the only time DE actively check the Forums for ideas is when they're bringing up the specific topic themselves and then check to see what reactions that gets.

It has taken an average time of four years to get some basic ideas that were suggested here actioned into the game, and in one specific anecdotal case on my own topics, close to seven years. And the only time they were actioned was after DE mentioned that they were looking at that specific subject in the first place. I mean... Somewhere back on the Forums, two name changes ago, there's a thread I started where I suggested that putting Zephyr's Tornado funnels together in the same spot would be a good change. Yeah. Seven years before that happened, and having Pablo take over the job from Steve.

This isn't a place where the Devs just browse through for thoughts on what would be cool.

Feedback is only taken when they want it. Not before or after. Look at how Mirage's Eclipse was treated versus Umbra's Sentience Passive.

This is a Forum where, sadly, the people you're talking to are the rest of the players.

The only way you're getting steps 2 through 12 is by convincing other players that there's a reason beyond 'wouldn't it be cool if'.