Instantly Knowing Where The Demolisher is Kinda Kills Disruption

[CrownOfShadows]

On 2024-04-01 at 10:43 PM, Drachnyn said:

Then you have no arguement because the visual indicator shows up at the same time as the audio indicator. Which on the new map instantly tells you where the demo is coming from and on bigger maps like lua disruption needs you to travel a few jumps. Visual feedback of the same quality as the sound will lead to exactly the current situation.

I'm not going to re-type all the reasons why they aren't equal, you're just going to have to take it upon yourself read them. Visual feedback of the same quality as the sound will correct the disparity between the two.

 

On 2024-04-01 at 10:33 PM, Tsukinoki said:

Which amounts to "Hey this change in the game mode is good, but they could have done it without changing the game mode!"

Ah I see, this is because you believe nothing about the game mode has changed.

On 2024-04-01 at 10:33 PM, Tsukinoki said:

Because with a decent sound setup what you're describing here doesn't happen.

This leads to two possible inferences.

Either your sound setup isn't that good, and you thought that was the default state of playing the game mode.
OR you're making the game quieter than it should be, drowinging it out with music or videos or something else, and coming to the same conclusion.

On 2024-04-01 at 10:33 PM, Tsukinoki said:

Which guess what?  If you had a good sound system and sound settings you would already have the information

Define "decent sound setup" and "good sound system and sound settings". Because the playerbase at large was searching. So does the entire playerbase have a 'bad sound setup' according to you?

On 2024-04-01 at 10:33 PM, Tsukinoki said:

The game apparently defines auditory range (as in the range where you can hear the beeping) to be roughly 1-2 rooms away.

Since that is when you can see the red marker appear on your minimap that shows you the location of the demolyst and was stated to show up when you could hear the beeps.

Uh huh.... this is a made up statistic.

On 2024-04-01 at 10:33 PM, Tsukinoki said:

Except that the beeping never really started all that low and was always good enough to tell you "Oh hey, it's slightly louder in my right speaker than my left, and because there is all of one hallway in that direction I know exactly where the demolyst is."

As soon as you heard the beeping you knew where to go in the old system because of how simple the game maps are.

Depends on the map, where you are in it and how you are moving relative to the demolisher, some have multiple options in the same direction, some have verticality, some have only one path out that direction, some have big open areas with multiple entrances in all directions.

On 2024-04-01 at 10:33 PM, Tsukinoki said:

Except that isn't true...unless you have a mono sound setup.

Otherwise you would be able to tell "Hey the beeps are slightly louder on my left speaker than my right speaker..." (and I don't have a surround sound setup, just two speakers) and know what direction it is coming from.

And with how limited map generation is that gives you all of one, maybe two, doors to check.

It's not like the game was making the beeping occur on the right speaker when the demolyst was actually to your left (unless you messed up the basic stereo sound setup and got the speakers reversed).

So yes, you can ascertain which direction the beeping is coming from due to which speaker is making the beeping the loudest!

And you don't need some expensive sound setup to do this, only a basic stereo sound system with two separate speakers placed slightly apart on your desk!

And no, it didn't only work at perfect 90 degree angles.  There was plenty of sound blending to tell "Well, its largely coming from my right speaker, but I do hear it in my left speaker, this means its to my right and slightly ahead...."

You still don't seem to understand how stereo works. Even with a full surround system you cannot get direction if you aren't facing the right way. When you are moving towards a target like a demolisher, especially at distance, you are ALWAYS facing the wrong way.

[Aruquae]

1 hour ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Define "good audio setup" in more detail please. Sound system, sound options settings, etc. How elitist is this?

I can guarantee the playerbase at large, including myself, were searching.

"Elitist" I can see that

Makes sense, some people don't have good audio setups, good thing we don't have to rely wholeheartedly on the audio. Good thing you pointed that out OP, this QoL update does help more than just the "auditory impaired"

[CrownOfShadows]

12 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

"Elitist" I can see that

Makes sense, some people don't have good audio setups, good thing we don't have to rely wholeheartedly on the audio. Good thing you pointed that out OP, this QoL update does help more than just the "auditory impaired"

I am 100% in favor of visual feedback, for the millionth +1 time

[rahetalius4.2.0CE]

2 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Define "good audio setup" in more detail please. Sound system, sound options settings, etc. How elitist is this?

I myself am using a turtle beach recon 200 gen 2 that I got as a gift, since I'm not really an audiophile and it works for what I need it to do, and I got it as a gift at some point, so of course I'm gonna use it if it works.

Using this headset, I dont even have the thing at max volume, I don't have the game's volume adjusted any different than any other mode, and I have music myself playing, and I'm still perfectly able to hear the boowomp-boowomp at the edge of it's audio range, which is the same point that now the visual cue shows up in.

If you're curious what music I have, it's along the lines of stuff like Archspire or YES, maybe a bit of BÖC, Men at Work, since I hop between genres alot. (of course, without the music I hear it better, but the point is, with the music I hear it just fine, even on the edge.)

Edited April 2 by rahetalius4.2.0CE

[Aldain]

I honestly can't tell if OP is trolling or not, and I'm afraid of both possibilities.

[CrownOfShadows]

17 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I honestly can't tell if OP is trolling or not, and I'm afraid of both possibilities.

You certainly seem like a troll. All you do is complain and mock and demean. I dare you to contribute something besides that to this discussion.

Edited April 2 by CrownOfShadows

[SeriousHawk22]

I'm glad DE implemented this QoL. It's a good improvement.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I understand a little. Disruption was (and still is), my favourite game mode, but for added context, I also use to hate Disruption when I first played it. When I first played Disruption, I was catching up on a few years away from the game, a lot was going on, I was catching up on a lot, and I really wanted Gauss, Acceltra, etc Plus just making my way through the games star chart, usually solo... Disruption felt like an entirely different game, and difficulty from everything else around out... 

Eventually though, I started to warm up to it, as my knowledge, experience and gear got better. I still felt like it was harder, than its surrounding content, especially when solo, but I started to know levels better, have more specialised builds... Plus the game would often through Disruption at is, in Sorties. Then I started to notice I was actually the one often carrying Sortie Disruptions in PUGS. Then now and then a friend or someone in Discord would ask for help with Disruption. At that point, I was really good at knowing where the beeping noises would come from, navigating tile sets fast, having specialised tools/builds to handle Demos fast... Felt very rewarding as far as skill, technique, build knowledge, map knowledge etc. Disruption became my favourite. Steel Path Disruption was now my idea of fun. Then Lua Apollo with ist Axi rewards? Then how it would pop off whenever we got new Prime stuff to collect? I actually started to enjoy new Primes... because it meant more people would run Lua Apollo Disruption, because even though I could solo, was something fun about teaming up with PUGS who loved Disruption and would work well/synergise very well as a team. Have 2 Demons up, marking them even though we didn't really need to... the rapid pace we would progress... Fun times. 

Do I think something was lost with the changes? A little, but it doesn't really bother me too much either TBH, I think we gain more overall. I like it being more accessible than ever, not just for those who are hearing impaired, but others for similar reasons. Its more chill now, easier to solo, less map knowledge is required, you get more time and opportunity. Might not be as tense or necessarily feel as "rewarding" but eh. Thats often the case with Warframe. I liked the old Archons Attenuation, like the new Archons attenuation. If I thought about more things that were changed to be more accessible or easier I could probably think of more examples, but rare do I ever think that something was so negatively changed as to "kill it" except maybe communication. I prefer the old days when no one had mouths or hands, and you had to communicate with snarls and chasing. Communication was an art. A brutal art dictated by the rules of nature, but art none the less. 

[NameLessFreak]

OP for some reason you have a very niche disruption experience. For what I assume most of us that can hear well, the sound q pretty much told us where it was almost instantly. The change didn't really take a way from this either because you still hear the sound q first and you only see it on the map once you go towards it.  Calling disruptions exciting or dangerous is kinda wild ngl, especially in warframe where we can min max everything to the point where it's trivial.

[CrownOfShadows]

2 hours ago, NameLessFreak said:

OP for some reason you have a very niche disruption experience. For what I assume most of us that can hear well, the sound q pretty much told us where it was almost instantly. The change didn't really take a way from this either because you still hear the sound q first and you only see it on the map once you go towards it.  Calling disruptions exciting or dangerous is kinda wild ngl, especially in warframe where we can min max everything to the point where it's trivial.

I don't know how true this is. From my experience playing in a lot, and I mean A LOT of pubs - I dare say that I've played a helluva a lot more than you even, every single player had to search a little. Further, tons of comments even in this very thread support this case, so I'm very very much inclined to believe that the majority of players were indeed searching and and experiencing disruption exactly as I did, and that it is instead you and a few others who are having a niche experience.

Disruption WAS my favorite game mode. It was exciting compared to survival, defense, mobile defense, rescue, exterminate...  you're GD right it was exciting, it was active and entertaining and dare I say fun. Game modes in WF suck and disruption was the best thing to happen to the game in a long, long, long time. And it was dangerous in that the demolisher could threaten the conduit (I see you didn't read very much either, where I corrected someone else similarly, of course it wasn't dangerous to us 🙄). When I played warframe in the off-season (when no release is happening and everything is dead as a doornail) then disruption was the only thing keeping me intermittently around really. If this is the permanent state of it moving forward, I'll be moving 100% to Cascade, which I don't like as much but still shares some of the excitement, entertainment, danger, adventure. If that mode got borked too, I'd bail on WF completely. A game has to be fun to be played, at least for me. Everyone seems to want to keep this state of disruption because it helps them farm plat more efficiently or something, but I want it to be more true to the way it was before (while yes, still providing visual feedback) because I want to enjoy my time in warframe. This change to disruption would be the equivalent of removing thrax from cascade, it would just completely kill the little bit of fun there is in it. Would it make it easier, sure. Is it better? No.

[Soleile]

 

While I am not hearing impaired, I have basically always played the game at very low volume while listening to other audio and disruption has never once been difficult to figure out where the demolisher is coming from. It has had a visual indicator for years, originally where it was much more obvious like what we currently have, and then made much more subtle. Back when it became a much more subtle icon, people thought it was a bug as it only showed up at the edges of your screen when not looking in the direction of the demolisher. This old post shows an example of what the visual indicator has been for the last several years:

On 2020-03-19 at 7:00 AM, (NSW)Matt-S said:

Sorry to bump, here's a video to show the issue in action:

As you can see, the red arrow shows on the left side of the screen when looking away, the beeping plays, but when looking directly at the door, the red visual does not show.

If it is too hard to notice in the video, this is a screenshot of the indicator:

It was admittedly very hard to notice when looking around as normal, but you could easily get a clear view of it by pointing the camera straight down at the floor. If you could hear the beeping, then the icon was available, you just needed to know how to get it to clearly show up. I spent a lot of my time in disruption solo, sitting on the conduit looking at the floor and could always tell where the demo was even if I could not always hear the beeping over whatever else I was listening to. Sure, playing in pubs allowed for people to run off in different directions to find it a couple seconds sooner but it never once felt dangerous.

[CrownOfShadows]

11 minutes ago, Soleile said:

 

While I am not hearing impaired, I have basically always played the game at very low volume while listening to other audio and disruption has never once been difficult to figure out where the demolisher is coming from. It has had a visual indicator for years, originally where it was much more obvious like what we currently have, and then made much more subtle. Back when it became a much more subtle icon, people thought it was a bug as it only showed up at the edges of your screen when not looking in the direction of the demolisher. This old post shows an example of what the visual indicator has been for the last several years:

If it is too hard to notice in the video, this is a screenshot of the indicator:

It was admittedly very hard to notice when looking around as normal, but you could easily get a clear view of it by pointing the camera straight down at the floor. If you could hear the beeping, then the icon was available, you just needed to know how to get it to clearly show up. I spent a lot of my time in disruption solo, sitting on the conduit looking at the floor and could always tell where the demo was even if I could not always hear the beeping over whatever else I was listening to. Sure, playing in pubs allowed for people to run off in different directions to find it a couple seconds sooner but it never once felt dangerous.

Erkay... here we go again, what do you mean it never once felt dangerous exactly? Do you mean you never once felt danger to your frame, or do you mean you never once lost a conduit?

[Soleile]

3 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Erkay... here we go again, what do you mean it never once felt dangerous exactly? Do you mean you never once felt danger to your frame, or do you mean you never once lost a conduit?

Dangerous as in I don't find the conduits any more under threat than a typical mobile defense terminal. 

[CrownOfShadows]

7 minutes ago, Soleile said:

Dangerous as in I don't find the conduits any more under threat than a typical mobile defense terminal. 

Yes well, the vast majority of players don't use that or rely on it or know that it exists, and it definitely is wonky. I personally always found the sound more reliable / convenient. Typically I am out actively hunting rather than hovering near the conduit, as that's faster/efficient/fun for me. If I just sat at the conduit like it was a mobile defense I wouldn't feel much 'danger' either, especially running gloom or something. The 'danger' used to be that going out hunting could result in going the wrong way and not realizing it in time, something that is of course now gone completely.

[ECCHOSIERRA]

On 2024-04-01 at 3:59 PM, CrownOfShadows said:

You're welcome. Try to read before posting next time.

The irony here is amazing.

On 2024-04-01 at 7:39 PM, CrownOfShadows said:

You certainly seem like a troll. All you do is complain and mock and demean. I dare you to contribute something besides that to this discussion.

Holy S#&$ the irony 

[CrownOfShadows]

6 hours ago, ECCHOSIERRA said:

The irony here is amazing.

Holy S#&$ the irony 

Oh the irony! Cry Alas, Dear Thursby, for the Irony! See you not those fair hills, with fields now full of irony? Reap and whey, sod and trough, for the irony!

[Aruquae]

On 2024-04-01 at 5:49 PM, CrownOfShadows said:

I'm not going to re-type all the reasons why they aren't equal, you're just going to have to take it upon yourself read them. Visual feedback of the same quality as the sound will correct the disparity between the two.

You can always quote them, because I read through this thread and don’t see the reasons….? I see your reasoning…? But it doesn’t equate to the reasons others have presented 

[CrownOfShadows]

8 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

You can always quote them, because I read through this thread and don’t see the reasons….? I see your reasoning…? But it doesn’t equate to the reasons others have presented 

Well I got flayed alive on page 1 for quoting things to people. Sigh, I'll just re-type them I guess - assuming your request here is in good faith - because quoting them now will lead to reactions without context.

How audio differs from visual:

1. Volume. The sound starts low and gets louder as you get closer. The current visuals just show it instantly without any 'volume' knob. (Yes, they do turn off sporadically, I cover this later).
2. Environment. Sounds compete with each other. A low volume sound gets drowned out by higher volume. Most people don't bother adjusting their sound settings every time they play disruption, meaning that the demolisher sound when it starts is competing with guns, abilities, Little Duck, etc, etc. This means that the sound indicator is effectively pushed further out. (While there is a lot of visual noise in warframe, the demolisher icon is not lost in it to the point of being able to miss it - it is always on top)
3. Direction. The spicy part, but it's still very real and I'm going to list it again in full confidence. Audio does not give you precise direction, it can only give you approximate direction at best, or no direction at worst. Visuals are precise indicators showing the demolisher's exact direction with zero ambiguity, whether that is above you, below you, or very far away.
4. Distance. This is nuanced and I can see people debating this, and I can agree it's not a strong element at all, but I'm listing it anyway because I do think it's a noticeable difference, though very mild. The audio does not tell you the precise distance. It is very hard to know how far away the demolisher really is just based on the proximity volume - you only know 'wow it's really close' or 'it's pretty far away'. Just like direction, it's approximate. There's no doubt about this, but now the counterargument here is that the visual icon doesn't tell you the precise distance either - I find this to be both true (there is no meter indicator) and not true (you still have a pretty good idea of how far away it is - I think this is because you are mentally comparing the icon to your map knowledge - you know what is off in that direction and the path they must take and you can mentally project the icon's position to the path). So they are both quite imprecise in this aspect, but I personally find that the visuals are still winning out in distance detection, albeit very slight. I will note that the visuals definitely have potential to be perfectly precise (meter indicator) but the sound has no such potential.
5. Muffling. The demolisher beep is affected by some architecture. I am not sure why this is, maybe they are doing a line-of-sight test or maybe they have certain walls tagged or maybe some more advanced sound design is going on, but we've all had the experience of coming around a corner, opening a door or coming into a new room and suddenly the beep jumps and is much louder because we are suddenly in the same space. It's up for debate if this is a good aspect but I rather think it is - it helps us to know when we have to go around. The visuals suffer this same effect slightly because they do turn off, but the visuals are still vastly superior to the sound in this case because of their precision - you know exactly where to go once they are back on - the visuals are not muffled, they just blink. I note that I really dislike this change to the visuals, I don't think it's accomplishing what it wants to in a satisfying way.

In summary, the current visuals have no ambiguity at all (except distance and an occasional flicker) whereas audio is imprecise about everything.

[Aruquae]

8 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Well I got flayed alive on page 1 for quoting things to people. Sigh, I'll just re-type them I guess - assuming your request here is in good faith - because quoting them now will lead to reactions without context.

 

Nah, my requests are usually in good faith anyways. Even if I disagree, it’s just my opinion and nothing against you specifically, but rather against your opinion. 

 

13 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Volume. The sound starts low and gets louder as you get closer. The current visuals just show it instantly without any 'volume' knob. (Yes, they do turn off sporadically, I cover this later).

Apparently it fades the farther away you are? I didn’t notice it considering my screen is so clear anyways. If it does fade out then it seems fair. 

 

14 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Environment. Sounds compete with each other. A low volume sound gets drowned out by higher volume. Most people don't bother adjusting their sound settings every time they play disruption, meaning that the demolisher sound when it starts is competing with guns, abilities, Little Duck, etc, etc. This means that the sound indicator is effectively pushed further out. (While there is a lot of visual noise in warframe, the demolisher icon is not lost in it to the point of being able to miss it - it is always on top)

Makes it more of a QoL for more than just those who can’t hear. So long as it has the fading out feature, then it works

 

15 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Direction. The spicy part, but it's still very real and I'm going to list it again in full confidence. Audio does not give you precise direction, it can only give you approximate direction at best, or no direction at worst. Visuals are precise indicators showing the demolisher's exact direction with zero ambiguity, whether that is above you, below you, or very far away.

Holdup… I agree with this. It gives you cues based on what direction you’re facing. So of course, if you hear the beeping from the left, you turn left and now it’s forward. I haven’t done much disruption since the update, but it would be cool if the flashing/fading out could be based off of an arrow on your screen. Could even be like a visual sound effect feature, something you would see in Fortnite. A rotating fading in and out blinker that circulates your reticle. Keeps the “searching” part without outright giving away the location. 

 

21 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Distance. This is nuanced and I can see people debating this, and I can agree it's not a strong element at all, but I'm listing it anyway because I do think it's a noticeable difference, though very mild. The audio does not tell you the precise distance. It is very hard to know how far away the demolisher really is just based on the proximity volume - you only know 'wow it's really close' or 'it's pretty far away'. Just like direction, it's approximate. There's no doubt about this, but now the counterargument here is that the visual icon doesn't tell you the precise distance either - I find this to be both true (there is no meter indicator) and not true (you still have a pretty good idea of how far away it is - I think this is because you are mentally comparing the icon to your map knowledge - you know what is off in that direction and the path they must take and you can mentally project the icon's position to the path). So they are both quite imprecise in this aspect, but I personally find that the visuals are still winning out in distance detection, albeit very slight. I will note that the visuals definitely have potential to be perfectly precise (meter indicator) but the sound has no such potential.

I disagree with this part, you can hear whether or not you’re close to the target. It gradually gets Lourdes or lower based on distance, which helps with pinpointing the target. 

 

48 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Muffling. The demolisher beep is affected by some architecture. I am not sure why this is, maybe they are doing a line-of-sight test or maybe they have certain walls tagged or maybe some more advanced sound design is going on, but we've all had the experience of coming around a corner, opening a door or coming into a new room and suddenly the beep jumps and is much louder because we are suddenly in the same space. It's up for debate if this is a good aspect but I rather think it is - it helps us to know when we have to go around. The visuals suffer this same effect slightly because they do turn off, but the visuals are still vastly superior to the sound in this case because of their precision - you know exactly where to go once they are back on - the visuals are not muffled, they just blink. I note that I really dislike this change to the visuals, I don't think it's accomplishing what it wants to in a satisfying way.

Hmmm, can’t say much on that, as I haven’t encountered anything of the sort 

Overall the system can be improved, but it shouldn’t take a step back from what the Devs presented. Reading your original post and this post, it seems your thoughts were more concerned with disruption being made “easier.” Ahhhh I seeeeee, this is making more sense. You were referring to the new feature pretty much trivializing one half of disruption (as the other half is actually killing the target). That clarifies things. Obviously the system can be improved (see above comments), but it only diminishes one aspect of the mission type. Even then, it certainly improved it for other players.

[CrownOfShadows]

I was about to say that the icon doesn't fade but you made me doubt myself and I went and checked to make sure.

It doesn't fade with distance. But it does fade when it turns off and on.

42 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

Holdup… I agree with this. It gives you cues based on what direction you’re facing. So of course, if you hear the beeping from the left, you turn left and now it’s forward. I haven’t done much disruption since the update, but it would be cool if the flashing/fading out could be based off of an arrow on your screen. Could even be like a visual sound effect feature, something you would see in Fortnite. A rotating fading in and out blinker that circulates your reticle. Keeps the “searching” part without outright giving away the location.

Exactly, and once you are facing forward there is no stereo anymore. In retrospect, I think the reason those people were so upset is because I said it "doesn't give you direction" which they misinterpreted (intentionally or not idk) to mean "there is no stereo" which isn't what I was saying - I was just saying it's always approximate.

49 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

I disagree with this part, you can hear whether or not you’re close to the target. It gradually gets Lourdes or lower based on distance, which helps with pinpointing the target.

Well, I wasn't saying it doesn't modulate with distance, you can definitely get a vague sense of it's distance by how loud it is.

50 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

Reading your original post and this post, it seems your thoughts were more concerned with disruption being made “easier.” Ahhhh I seeeeee, this is making more sense. You were referring to the new feature pretty much trivializing one half of disruption (as the other half is actually killing the target). That clarifies things. Obviously the system can be improved (see above comments), but it only diminishes one aspect of the mission type. Even then, it certainly improved it for other players.

Yes, that's basically it. It removed the search aspect of the mode and made it just a little too easy and boring.

If I personally had to choose between the current visual feedback and the old system, I'd take the old system. I understand its necessity and agree with it - there should be visual feedback, and like I said I really prefer to be able to play my own music during disruption, but this change to the feel of it - like the the title says, it's killing it for me, the benefit does not outweigh the loss for me, not by a mile. I no longer want to play it, there's no joy in it anymore, it's just another trudging mission now where you go where you're told. There's no player agency - it's now a robot job.

[Aruquae]

Just now, CrownOfShadows said:

It doesn't fade with distance. But it does fade when it turns off and on.

In that case, it should definitely fade with distance. Then the blinking would just equate to flickering to match the blinks. 

 

1 minute ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Well, I wasn't saying it doesn't modulate with distance, you can definitely get a vague sense of it's distance by how loud it is.

Agreed, seeing that quote of my post made me realize I typed “Lourdes.” Thanks spell check, I hate you

 

2 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

If I personally had to choose between the current visual feedback and the old system, I'd take the old system. I understand its necessity and agree with it - there should be visual feedback, and like I said I really prefer to be able to play my own music during disruption, but this change to the feel of it - like the the title says, it's killing it for me, the benefit does not outweigh the loss for me, not by a mile. I no longer want to play it, there's no joy in it anymore, it's just another trudging mission now where you go where you're told. There's no player agency - it's now a robot job.

You enjoy the hunt, makes sense. That did give disruption a unique flavor. Could always have the toggle option, but honestly? Not sure it’s needed. At most a fading/blinking indicator that still gives a sense of searching for it, but doesn’t outright expose the target. 

[CrownOfShadows]

1 minute ago, Aruquae said:

In that case, it should definitely fade with distance. Then the blinking would just equate to flickering to match the blinks.

I thought about the fading icon, but I don't think that will help too much. My reasoning here is that it will still retain all the problems of exactness in direction. Since the icon will always be on top of all the other visual noise too, I am not sure that an icon even at 10% opacity wouldn't 'give it away' as it were.

Another option i considered was to shrink the icon based on distance, but I think that would be more annoying than anything and it still has the exactness problem.

I think a simple HUD icon (not positioned on the demolisher's location but just permanently attached to the side of the user's screen like the combo counter) that just flashed with demolisher proximity would probably be the most elegant solution. Move one direction, get a flash - it'd be the equivalent of hearing the beep - you'd know it's somewhere this way. Go down a path, less flashes, wrong way. Go down another, more flashes, right way. Still mark the demolisher with a red icon once it's found like normal though. This should preserve the search, preserve the uncertainty. It'd just be a direct transfer of the sound information to the screen - it wouldn't tell you where exactly, but it would clue you in.

The only scenario I can imagine where this might be more confusing than the audio is when there are two or more demolishers at once. In that case, the sound would be superior - because the flashing icon would be trying to flash for two things at once and it would just get muddled. A possible workaround would be to allow up to 4 demolisher icons and when there is more than one just add another icon to inform the user that they are 'hearing' two or more, and flash them respective to the distance of each. Even further, you could color code the icons so that the user would know which conduit demolisher is close and if there's more than one which is further away. That might be too much information - since the sound doesn't tell you that either, but off the top of my head I don't mind it too much.

[Aerikx]

On 2024-03-30 at 1:14 PM, (XBOX)Timidobserver said:

What's killing the new disruption is how they don't cleanse anything. It's easy to just lock them down indefinitely. 

They don't cleanse because they are Necramechs and thus they are "Hard Enough" of a fight. (And folks hate the Nullification auras so I assumed DE took em out. We don't want enemies putting up a fight around here remember?)

After Wave 15 or 20 the Voidrig stop dying in 2 or 3 shots and actually do decent DMG to players.

On 2024-03-30 at 12:45 PM, (PSN)rexis12 said:

It's still Disruption, it's still a gear check, it's still reach them before they blow up, and they still don't show up on the map until the beeps sound.

Honestly it's the easiest Disruption in the game. 

I laughed at how easy the Necramechs are. They are NOTHING like the Isolation Vault Necramechs or even normal Demolition units. 

I vividly remember how my jaw dropped when I killed the first Bonewidow I spawned with 1 (ungalavanized) shot. 

I farmed 2 sets of Onos, 1 Dante, way, way, way too many (I stopped at like wave 34 or 42 or something I don't remember now. I've been busy helping new players farm frames in the circuit, Railjack, and helping them farm galvanized mods and etc) relics in my first ever run of the mode. 

And for the OP...

I HATE when challenge is unnecessarily tuned down. However, I agree that knowing where the Demolition units are kills the gimmick of the mode.

But the mode is nigh impossible for those hard of hearing. The QoL is justified.

I personally would change it to where the units move faster in general (sprinting) and use Crowd Control on players.

That way you can't just stand in a doorway and snipe/shoot the enemy while it mindlessly matches towards you.

I'd like to see a Unique Necramech that will fire a grapple cable at players, tie them up, and toss them away or bind them to a wall.

Have demolition units that grapple players like Liches/sisters and bind them and use reflect/magnetize on the player.  

IE: The unit actually tries to stop you and make it to the node instead of acting like a parent running from a toddler. 

Edited April 3 by Aerikx

[VENDOMINUS]

I'll add my 2 cents on the matter.
I really like the changes to disruption. I personally found that if I wanted to play disruption, I had  to both turn up my sound, turn off my music, stop watching whatever I was watching, stop any calls etc and put a headset on, just to know vaguely where the demoliser was coming from OR just play a frame that can oneshot it and just sit on the conduit, wasting everyone's time.

Now I know where the bloody mob is comming from and can head there, w/o having to stop everything else. This makes the mode a lot more playable, since before I wouldn't bother if I didn't feel like doing all the things above.

Edited April 3 by VENDOMINUS

[CrownOfShadows]

1 hour ago, Aerikx said:

But the mode is nigh impossible for those hard of hearing. The QoL is justified.

20 minutes ago, VENDOMINUS said:

I'll add my 2 cents on the matter.
I really like the changes to disruption. I personally found that if I wanted to play disruption, I had  to both turn up my sound, turn off my music, stop watching whatever I was watching, stop any calls etc and put a headset on, just to know vaguely where the demoliser was coming from OR just play a frame that can oneshot it and just sit on the conduit, wasting everyone's time.

Now I know where the bloody mob is comming from and can head there, w/o having to stop everything else. This makes the mode a lot more playable, since before I wouldn't bother if I didn't feel like doing all the things above.

Well the thing I'm saying is that you can keep the QoL and also keep the difficulty by just changing how the visual feedback is displayed. It doesn't have to be one or the other. We don't have to kill the mode to get visual feedback in there.

1 hour ago, Aerikx said:

I personally would change it to where the units move faster in general (sprinting) and use Crowd Control on players.

That way you can't just stand in a doorway and snipe/shoot the enemy while it mindlessly matches towards you.

I'd like to see a Unique Necramech that will fire a grapple cable at players, tie them up, and toss them away or bind them to a wall.

Have demolition units that grapple players like Liches/sisters and bind them and use reflect/magnetize on the player.  

IE: The unit actually tries to stop you and make it to the node instead of acting like a parent running from a toddler. 

I actually can get behind this. I think buffing the demolishers and especially making them more like warriors would be a really fun addition, where not only do you have to find them and stop them but you have to engage in a real fight with them (as opposed to just pumping them full of bullets while they ignore you).

Another thing that might be cool is to keep them as they are but give them escorts, so you have to fight the escorts - that might be too difficult though, depending - you could have a slower pace variant with this maybe, where the demolisher doesn't move quite so fast but has a heavy guard.